I have no idea what you're on about.

Verin of course misses the point entirely.

And Andreus foams at the mouth in a fantasy world devoid of interaction with reality.

Have I missed anything? Oh I would like to say, Anslo, I have to commend you on something. Unlike many people you are actually flying out and attempting to accomplish something. So good on you I suppose.

I have no idea what you're on about.

"desu kawaii"

desu what now???

desu what now???

Except... Nation are not trustworthy. I have known pretty much everybody in TS-F to tell direct lies about both Nation and their own corporation with a straight face and in the teeth of overwhelming facts. Kuvakei himself has zero regard for treaties and civilized agreements: He does only whatever is in his best interests, according to his own evaluation, without a second thought for integrity.

What guarantee do you have that the citizens you rescue haven't been through the vats already? We have recordings of live, on-air footage from a reporter who got an interview with Kuvakei himself only to be assimilated in minutes by a swarm of airborne nanites, the same technology being used in the YC112 "Upliftings" to march terrified human puppets into the holds of waiting transports

What guarantee can you honestly make with the rigour required of a trained security specialist, that you have not delivered men and women back to their relieved families carrying the seed of a Sansha sleeper cell? There will be enough of them riddling our society as it is. Arrangements such as this are cracks in our armour, loopholes in our security.

And on what basis are you convicting the crews you hand over to the vats of piracy? You know full well that most capsuleer crew sign on for a tour and spend months hard at work with their head down, earning a fortune to retire on and getting the hell out as soon as they can. Most don't even know the name of their pilot, what system they're in, what they're doing, what corp they fly for. Many more are slaves. Merely being aboard a pirate's ship is not indicative of being guilty of piracy, or even of being aware that piracy was going on.

Slave raids into empire space were - and are - a violation of the very terms of interstellar law and treaty that Kuvakei demands be respected in regard to the borders of his own promised land.

Try? Shooting pirates? I might have done that once or twice.

I'm interested to know how the liberals now see Pyre Falcon Defence and Security corporation, because of their treaty with TS-F. Standings wise, how do you now see them, terrible ,bad, neutral, good, excellent. Do you now regard them as criminals or terrorists yourselves, do you consider them to be kill on sight, due to the fact that they handover people they class, to be pirates to the TS-F.

Show us where we have ever broken a deal, Stitcher.

Because you can't.

Because we haven't.

On the other hand, you managed to successfully turn Alexylva Paradox from a promising group that harboured differing but similar goals, and softer methods, into a group that is Just Another Group of Capsuleers.

So congratulations, you have managed to do reverse alchemy and turn dross gold into brilliant lead. Congratulations.

I guess the reason Pyre treats its prisoners well is to clear their conscience of the terrible things they are about to do for them.

Gallenteans may not treat prisoners the best we should. But we're damn sure they will survive and one day will return home.

Regarding Sansha nation are classified as criminals throughout the Empires. Pyre Falcon are handing over people to Sansha nation. You do not believe that Pyre Falcon should also be classified as criminals or terrorists. I think that is your stance Stitcher. You disagree with their association with TS-F , but their handing over of people to the TS-F for the Sansha nation programming, does not classify their corporation to be considered illegal, criminal or terrorist organisation, as far as you are concerned.

Why are you imprisoning people who would ever return to normal? Why not find some better way to deal with minor transgressions.

As it stands, the people that Pyre give us are still alive. The people we give Pyre are still alive, when normal capsuleers would leave them to die and not give it a second thought.

It sounds to me like our deal is saving many more lives than not making a deal would do!

Let me remind you of that core: Your ultimate goal is to advance Nation. You don't necessarily NEED to break a deal in order to accomplish that if honouring that deal yields a sufficient profit. Whether or not you are obedient to the terms of the agreement, you aren't returning those prisoners out of the goodness of your twisted little clockwork hearts. You're getting something out of that prisoner transfer, there's an angle you're working, some gain that pays for the time and resources spent making the exchange, and which is obtuse enough to not arouse suspicion.

If you're going to prove me wrong on THAT one, then you need to do a lot better than trying to obfuscate it by challenging me on the unimportant outlying details. If I've been unfair with regards to your history of honouring (or not) your deals, then I apologise... But I've not been unfair in calling you liars.

Pyre might think we're nasty too, but they get their hands dirty and do what they think is best for their nation. Rather than shout loudly at a feed.

~Hikari

I don't get it.

You're accusing us of benefiting from a deal we made with another party? Of course we do. That is literally the point of making deals and agreements with others. Is so you are better off. Just because we are better off doesn't mean that Pyre or any other parties that have deals with us are worse off. We aren't proving you wrong because it's obvious.

Then why are the rest of your walking computers screaming so much instead of simply letting your actions speak?

Pot? Kettle. Etc.

Obvious indeed. So what IS it you're getting out of the arrangement?

We don't start these things. We don't make public announcements about our goings on or campaigns. We do let actions speak for us, but when others feel the need to call us out or spread misinformation then we'll correct them.

It's been stated a number of times in this thread and in rather plain terms.

~Hikari

Care to repeat them for a poor boneheaded Civire who must have missed it in all the confusion?

Oh, it does. In fact I already reminded them that it does. I distinctly recall mentioning the twin crimes against the laws of the State of selling people into slavery and of sentence without due process.

You could throw in all sorts. Aiding and abetting an enemy of the State, neglectful compromise of national security, unlawful business with a criminal faction... I bet a talented prosecutor could stretch the list out to be as long as my leg.

I still don't buy it - that seems like an awful lot of effort and time invested for small-to-negligible gain - but my bit on that subject has been said and it's not my decision to make, it's Pyre's.