One should know that a slaver's version of "nice" is them reducing your daily beating by one blow.

... that chemically cause dependence and addiction. The drug addiction and slave collars they use work on all humans, your state citizens are not exempt.

Undisputed facts versus IGS opinion. ...... The winner and still champion is undisputed Facts!!!

Pieter, when you run to the aid of a countryman without knowing the origin of the conflict you might be a patriot, but you might also end up being very, very wrong. Scroll back and read before you come out with guns blazing. A slaver is a slaver. Spin it if it makes you able to sleep at night, but the truth is inescapable. In my humble opinion the Caldari deserve a better ally, and I am concerned that our past is prologue for your future. Do not trust the slaver cult!

If it means anything, I support Aldrith's program.
Not all of service to the Empire is taking slaves and burning worlds. They do good and a Kameira's place is among them.

I would go into his service would I not have been a capsuleer.

None whatsoever.

I do not support the enslavement of my people under any circumstances and will see them free by any means. even peaceful ones believe it or not. Though I do not hold hope that will happen.

But we Kameiras are not like Matari. It is not who we were meant to be or become.

It is often I wish I had not become a capsuleer, that I could return to something as simple as guarding colony worlds from attack.
Every one of us should have that chance. Not just Kameiras but slaves too. The Mandate is not an evil thing and neither are the Matari who choose to not live in the republic, we will change them as much as they have changed us in the end.

The only time I ever felt conflicted about what I was doing was when I flew under you.

Mmmmh. Somebody clearly doesn't want to admit that the Federation Navy at the time we fought them was arguably stronger than the Amarrian Navy at the time the Republic fought them. I say arguably because the Federation doesn't have the same tonnage as the Amarrian Navy but is absolutely superior in terms of technology and training. Of course the Amarrian Navy is still superior in sheer tonnage to the Federation Navy today, but you'd be hard pressed to find anyone claiming they were comparable in strength.

As for who was in a weaker position - well we had one planet and some deep range outpost colonies. The Republic had, what was it, seven long-settled worlds? You can argue that the Caldari were more militaristic in spirit than the Matari, but that's ignoring the fact that we didn't have many dedicated military vessels larger than frigates.

Yes. Our most famous ship in that battle WAS a converted water carrier. Tovil-Toba's flagship, no less.

Now, here's the thing. You might think I dislike the Matari - except I'm on the record supporting them. I've repeatedly said that I strongly wish they hadn't allied against us with the Gallente. I've repeatedly said that I think they make a better ideological partner for us than the Empire, with it's thinly-veiled desire to gobble up our systems and crap out our culture, replacing it with their own.

I sincerely believe we could teach each other a great deal - but that all goes out the window when one of them attacks us. Because that's what I was doing, responding to an attack of precisely the type I've been accused of making.

I have nothing at all negative to say about the Amarrian religion and have not.

The people who use it to control others however.

And I do not need to be placated to, very far from it. But I will not bend my spine like a willow in the wind to accomplish my goals.

Shakor

Who?

Maleatu Shakor, brutor, tribal, minmatar and leader of his... Republic.
Enemy of the State.

Where did I state you had anything negative to say about the Amarrian religion? I am seeking clarification on your contradicting stance where, on the one had you express your desire to have remained a Kameiras while on the other a staunch opposition towards the Imperial system of slavery. Now, an Amarrian Holder might tell me if this is not the case, but the Kameiras training is not delivered to a free citizen, it is delivered to slaves, and specifically Minmatar slaves. Now this would nominally mean that you were a former slave as a Kameiras. As such when you state an opposition to slavery and then a desire to be a Kameiras then that is essentially equivalent to: "I oppose slavery but given the opportunity I would accept enslavement."

Where then is the connexion between an abolitionist and anti-establishment stance as far as the Empire is concerned and the Kameiras programs that are functional only under a system of religious slavery and the involvement of the feudal-military establishment of the Amarr Empire?

Kameiras are not slaves.

Ave Summit. I was actually planning on posting an update when the troops were ready to deploy in about a week or more, but now would be a good time as well.

For the past month the Kameiras turned over to us have undergone screening and are now in the process of receiving supplementary training for their new assignments. Kameiras almost never work in close proximity to civilians and it is necessary to acclimate them to their duties as a defensive response force within civilian sectors of the various contested Amarrian districts in the warzone. Their primary objectives will be to secure and evacuate civilian populations in the event of an attack, with the secondary objectives of preventing damage to civilian assets and inflicting casualties upon raiding forces.

Additionally, they are being given extensive training on how to combat clone mercenary forces, which are vastly different in doctrine and tactics than conventional ground forces. Once this is done they will be dispatched to various locations which will remain classified for operational security.

Thus far we have gathered 5,750 Kameira soldiers. It is estimated that a battalion of 700 soldiers will be needed to effectively secure a single planetary district. This means that we have enough troops to secure approximately eight districts in the warzone, with 150 soldiers held in initial reserve. The length of this first deployment will be two months so that we may gauge the effectiveness of their efforts and procure data relating to casualty rates and attrition in the field.

I hope this clears up a few things. Also, we are still accepting troops into the program, and we ask that if any of you do come across any Kameira units that you offer them the option to join our ranks. The Praetoria extend their deepest gratitude to those who have already done so.

Saints watch over us,

Aldrith Shutaq
Fleet Captain
PIE Inc.

I am not a slaver, I have never laid a hand upon a slave, and my definition of 'nice' in the context of the thread you have chosen to usurp is to attempt to protect the innocent from an unceasing war and the predations of the psychopaths that participate in it.

Rail all you want about the existence of Kameiras and the wrongfulness of the institutions that created them. The facts are as they stand, however: they are soldiers, they find profound purpose in fighting for the Empire, and they do not do well in many other contexts. Not only that, but despite what many Amarrian commanders do with them, this particular program has them fighting for an undeniable good, with much less risk to their own lives than their normal front-line duties. I'd say everyone wins here, be they the capsuleers who contribute troops to this program, the civilians caught in the warzone, or the Kameiras themselves.

Now, if you wanted to make good of a rather messy situation, what would you do? I'd love to see some better ideas.

Mr. Shutaq, I'm pleased that your program is working well. I hope that you see this conversation in a more positive light, too! It's a little rocky, but it's certainly calling attention to your work. Is there some way a humble Caldari contractor can help?

Ah, so it's a voluntary program these days open to free citizens of the Empire? What's the age of enlistment set at by the way and are there also Amarrian, Khanid, and Ni-Kunni, Kameiras now?

You are never content with the simple answer.

Just because we are born into it does not make it slavery, Holders are born to their stations.

You are never content with the simple answer.

Just because we are born into it does not make it slavery, Holders are born to their stations.

Yes, and so are Syrikos Hounds born a Syrikos Hound. A fate they perhaps share with the Kameiras is that without a master to provide them guidance they are liable to bark howling mad at the moon as much as chase their own tail in confusion.

And in the Empire, many slaves are born into their slavery. This somehow makes them... not slaves, apparently.

So it is not answers you want but to weakly attempt to once again throw a barbed remark or statement with the intent of ...what? Hurting feelings? Disenfranchising or harming reputation in some way?

No doubt you will follow up with how you were just idly commenting and meant nothing by it.
Or maybe, you will get to the point already.

You used the word faith so I assumed your objections were religious in nature. i.e. that slavery is a logical outcome of the Amarrian faith, which it is not.

Are you aware that while all Rifters are Frigates not all Frigates are Rifters?

You will have to try much, much, harder to twist meaning into my words.

I already got to the point dear, but I fear while your Kameiras training might have taught you much it failed to inculcate adequate reading comprehension. What you appear to see as a barbed remarks are nothing of the sort for I spare them only for opponents I would consider of intelligence or importance - and in which I consider you having failed both criteria. No barbs but rather what I would say was rather blatant derision. Deserved I would say if only when having read the following:
Because discussion based solely on assumption and not what is said is worthy only of flippant disregard.

Now that said, my curiosity as to the correlations with former Kameiras and their appearing in the Republic has already been satiated by another party with knowledge on the matter. I suppose it really was as simple as it being either those rejected from the program or those with so little Faith in the Empire, so your value has expired.

As for an interest in disenfranchising or harming your reputation in some way, I really wouldn't have much interest since you appear to be more than competent in that regard already.

You're doing that thing again where you say something which bears no relation to the point being made and then act like you've won.

I knew you were going for option three.
And Veik, you know that slaves cannot read.