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Angsty Teenager
Broski North
281
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Posted - 2014.04.11 20:22:00 -
[1] - Quote
From the site:
Quote:Due to real life issues I am on a long term hiatus from Eve and am therefore not currently doing any work on wormhol.es and don't forsee being able to do any for the forseeable future. I'm therefore releasing the full source code for anyone who would like to integrate and improve upon it. You can download it from Github here. The website will continue to operate for those people who just want to be able to use it in game.
Can somebody please pick up this project? It is a fantastic tool, I'd hate to see it die. |
RudinV
Syndicate of Death BLOOD UNION
60
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Posted - 2014.04.11 20:30:00 -
[2] - Quote
Angsty Teenager wrote:From the site: Quote:Due to real life issues I am on a long term hiatus from Eve and am therefore not currently doing any work on wormhol.es and don't forsee being able to do any for the forseeable future. I'm therefore releasing the full source code for anyone who would like to integrate and improve upon it. You can download it from Github here. The website will continue to operate for those people who just want to be able to use it in game. Can somebody please pick up this project? It is a fantastic tool, I'd hate to see it die. CCP should. tools like womnav, wormholes, dotlan etc. are absolutely necessary for daily wormhole navigation, so in general-good service>happy customers. and im sure this kind of things have the best invest/profit ratio. |
Aquila Sagitta
Blue-Fire
281
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 20:36:00 -
[3] - Quote
CCP should focus on broken game mechanics and let players make good tools Blue-Fire Best Fire |
Saede Riordan
Alexylva Paradox
6076
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 21:24:00 -
[4] - Quote
I'm willing to help, but I don't know how to code. Do we have a group we can set up to work on it?
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AssassinationsdoneWrong
The Nexus 7's
153
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Posted - 2014.04.11 21:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
Sorry to hear it Durzel and I hope RL sorts itself out for you.
Was always great flying with you and wormhol.es was and is an awesome site.
Stay cool bro The Nexus 7's
What we fall short of in numbers we more than make up for in stupidity |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
2158
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 21:37:00 -
[6] - Quote
RudinV wrote:Angsty Teenager wrote:From the site: Quote:Due to real life issues I am on a long term hiatus from Eve and am therefore not currently doing any work on wormhol.es and don't forsee being able to do any for the forseeable future. I'm therefore releasing the full source code for anyone who would like to integrate and improve upon it. You can download it from Github here. The website will continue to operate for those people who just want to be able to use it in game. Can somebody please pick up this project? It is a fantastic tool, I'd hate to see it die. CCP should. tools like womnav, wormholes, dotlan etc. are absolutely necessary for daily wormhole navigation, so in general-good service>happy customers. and im sure this kind of things have the best invest/profit ratio.
Meh, I recall a time when the only WH tool was staticmapper. Of course then we could also see jumps in and out of the system. |
Reve Uhad
Outer Ring Sleeper Collective Illusion of Solitude
0
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Posted - 2014.04.11 22:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
I've evemailed Durzel to offer to take over hosting if he's willing to release the domain name to me. I like the idea of this staying open source though.
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Alundil
Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate
463
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 05:29:00 -
[8] - Quote
This is such bad news. I really hope RL sorts itself out for you, Durzel.
Live safe and hopefully we will see you back in Eve in the future. Clone mechanics enchancements Deep Space Probe Revival |
Malcolm Shinhwa
Bad Touches
1829
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 05:56:00 -
[9] - Quote
I've been thinking about installing the source on a server and trying to at least fix up the eve-kill links. I'm a back end guy though. I can handle the PHP and MySQL bits, but I don't do no Javascript. So I'm kind of hesitant to put time in if there is someone else who can do both parts. Also, I'm terribly lazy. "You're a d-bag. But you're a caring d-bag." -- Sindel Pellion
***** Psychotic Monk and DJ FunkyBacon for CSM ***** |
G0hme
Hoover Inc. Pandemic Legion
193
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 06:05:00 -
[10] - Quote
Oh wow, wormholers actually have to use their own eyes and scouts now to get intel. OH THE HORROR! CCP should have disabled the NPCs Killed api when they also disabled the jumps in system api. Shook Eelm's hand at Fanfest 2012 Shook CCP Soundwave's hand at Fanfest 2013
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Angsty Teenager
Broski North
281
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Posted - 2014.04.12 06:40:00 -
[11] - Quote
G0hme wrote:Oh wow, wormholers actually have to use their own eyes and scouts now to get intel. OH THE HORROR! CCP should have disabled the NPCs Killed api when they also disabled the jumps in system api.
>is in PL
Oh wow, nullsecs actually have to use their own eyes and scouts now to get intel. OH THE HORROR! CCP should have disabled the cynos/sov level/sov/ships kills/npcs kills apis when they also disabled nothing intel related for nullsec.
CCP also should never have released the LY distances between systems in EVE and you should have to test all cyno chains to make sure they work ahead of time.
l0l |
Glyndi
Doom Generation THE H0NEYBADGER
196
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 06:57:00 -
[12] - Quote
G0hme wrote:Oh wow, wormholers actually have to use their own eyes and scouts now to get intel. OH THE HORROR! CCP should have disabled the NPCs Killed api when they also disabled the jumps in system api.
wormhol.es wasn't even that accurate. We mostly used it to quickly ID the type of WH and what it's static(s) were. Didn't really give any other reliable intel. Null bears always so quick to try and throw rocks when they have none. |
Durzel
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
223
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 07:16:00 -
[13] - Quote
I had a major family tragedy recently and since then I haven't even switched on my PC much less played anything.
Since then I've only really been logging in to train from my work PC, but I had noticed people evemailing me requests and suggestions for improvements etc, so thought it only courteous to release the source to let others run with it rather than string anyone along on the promise of fixes and improvements "soon" when I know in my heart it's not gonna happen.
Hoping to come back in the future, and maybe develop a new wormholes site from scratch - though as anyone who has gone through the loss of a loved one will I'm sure attest: everything changes. Eve isn't on my radar anymore.
Anyway that's enough rambling, just wanted to say that I appreciated the messages of support. Fly safe everyone o/ |
Glyndi
Doom Generation THE H0NEYBADGER
196
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 07:20:00 -
[14] - Quote
Durzel wrote:I had a major family tragedy recently and since then I haven't even switched on my PC much less played anything.
Since then I've only really been logging in to train from my work PC, but I had noticed people evemailing me requests and suggestions for improvements etc, so thought it only courteous to release the source to let others run with it rather than string anyone along on the promise of fixes and improvements "soon" when I know in my heart it's not gonna happen.
Hoping to come back in the future, and maybe develop a new wormholes site from scratch - though as anyone who has gone through the loss of a loved one will I'm sure attest: everything changes. Eve isn't on my radar anymore.
Anyway that's enough rambling, just wanted to say that I appreciated the messages of support. Fly safe everyone o/
RL always trumps EVE buddy, take care and thanks for doing what you did. o7 |
Angsty Teenager
Broski North
281
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 07:21:00 -
[15] - Quote
Durzel wrote:I had a major family tragedy recently and since then I haven't even switched on my PC much less played anything.
Since then I've only really been logging in to train from my work PC, but I had noticed people evemailing me requests and suggestions for improvements etc, so thought it only courteous to release the source to let others run with it rather than string anyone along on the promise of fixes and improvements "soon" when I know in my heart it's not gonna happen.
Hoping to come back in the future, and maybe develop a new wormholes site from scratch - though as anyone who has gone through the loss of a loved one will I'm sure attest: everything changes. Eve isn't on my radar anymore.
Anyway that's enough rambling, just wanted to say that I appreciated the messages of support. Fly safe everyone o/
I'm very sorry to hear that, I hope that you and your family recover. Wormhol.es is a fantastic tool and I (and I'm sure others) really appreciate the work you've put in, and your willingness to release the source code so somebody can continue it in your absence.
I wish you the best, and hopefully we'll see a neat new tool in the future! |
G0hme
Hoover Inc. Pandemic Legion
193
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 07:27:00 -
[16] - Quote
Angsty Teenager wrote:>is in PL
Glyndi wrote:Null bears always so quick to try and throw rocks when they have none.
Dawww how cute.
So Angsty, by your logic, I should also assume that because you are in Broski North (former Black Legion until recently) That you know nothing at all about Wspace? It would kinda go both ways then. I should prolly include my Wspace experience in my signature from now on, seems like the simpleminded nature of some people in this section of EVE-O, tend to use Alliance names to support their arguements. But oh well.
In my opinion, everything should be unknown in Wspace. Kspace has Concord to provide statistics etc, Wspace doesn't. The whole issue surrounding the Jump API really came to light in the AHARM - RnK conflict, where one side would permanently keep an eye on the home system of the other part to see if they were chain rolling their static, as the activity in Jumps/hr would be spiking, they would then sit ready to instantly close any new connections in their system. It was an out of game source of intel. The same now actually goes of the NPC Killed in system, people base their pvp around the pattern of siterunners without having to actually have eyes on them. Its the same silly way of using information that is not available to you ingame as with the Jump API. Get your own eyes on, do your own leg work, isn't that why Wspace is so exciting?
Wspace should be all about the hands-on experience, everything should be unknown and the rewards you get should be by the effort you and your group puts into it, not by what someone else have already done for you. I used to admire and envy the intel network of former AHARM, holy **** what info they had on Wspace, it took nearly two years in LFARM before i felt that we were close to the same level, but god it felt good for all the effort put into it.
PS. Best wishes to you Durzel. Shook Eelm's hand at Fanfest 2012 Shook CCP Soundwave's hand at Fanfest 2013
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Angsty Teenager
Broski North
282
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 07:47:00 -
[17] - Quote
I pointed out you were in PL because in the next sentence I talk about mechanics that your alliance uses on a daily basis.
I am simply saying that if you believe that kill data for j-space should be removed, it should also be removed for k-space, as well as other data such as the LY distances between systems. By your logic, all information in eve should not be supplied by the API/database and simply by player observation. Concord is not a valid excuse because concord doesn't exist in 0.0. Also "lore" reasons are a joke and using them is groundless.
You may have the opinion that CCP shouldn't provide this data, but frankly this sort of thing is here because not everybody plays in the same timezone. You say that we should have to scout and find out this data, but when you have a job/school/other obligations, you can't stay up all night just to stalk a target.
It's just unrealistic, plus, NPC kills are only ever an issue for pure farmers. If you're not a pure farmer, what's the issue, free fights. If you don't like the risk, don't spend time farming in w-space, and feel free to go and rat in 0.0 where you can constantly see if there is anybody in local watching you. |
G0hme
Hoover Inc. Pandemic Legion
193
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 08:35:00 -
[18] - Quote
Not using mechanics that are available to you would be ********, but that doesn't mean the mechanics should be available to you in the first place. Yes I do believe that data not supported by Lore or common sense should only be available through Player Observation, why should you be handed everything on a silver plate? Lack to time in game? So what? Those who put in more effort should always have the advantage over one that puts little to no effort. This is EVE, HTFU.
Wether or not the same should go for Kspace data, thats definitely up for debate. But dismissing lore is a silly notion. Why do you think CCP even bothered with lore if not to make it valid for the game.
For example, wouldnt it be correct to assume that in order to get better Sec status by killing 0.0 NPCs, Concord would have to record the kills made in order to increase your sec status? But in Wspace there is nothing but players themselves to record anything. Lore is great, it gives a game depth.
But you even say it yourself, Wspace should be hard, but then why should you be handed data for free? Sounds like lazyness to me. I've utilized that data as FC for several years in Wspace, doesn't mean I think it should be there. And if I think Wspace would be better off without it, then why shouldnt I complain about it?
Besides, in my opinion, ganking Site runners is not a fight. At most its a calculated gank. Shook Eelm's hand at Fanfest 2012 Shook CCP Soundwave's hand at Fanfest 2013
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Angsty Teenager
Broski North
282
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 08:48:00 -
[19] - Quote
Ok well, I'm just going to say "lol lore" at this point.
Tbh, you just sound like an upset farmer who thinks it's unfair that he can be ganked in wspace, but also thinks it's totally fair to make it impossible to kill famers outside of blind luck; i.e. rolling into their wormhole while they're running sites, which is pretty much not going to happen considering the fact that there are ~500 C5's and only a few groups who can actually pull off a gank within a 5 minute window of opening a wormhole, and even then, only during select timezones. |
G0hme
Hoover Inc. Pandemic Legion
193
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 09:42:00 -
[20] - Quote
I actually wouldn't have a problem with that being the explanation if that was the official stance on it. I would gladly support lore backed arguements. I would love to debate lore, but that would pull it way off topic as we could keep making up stuff till they lock the thread. But in terms of Wspace, nothing should come free and easy, which is basicly what such data is. When the Jump API was removed this was the explaination.
Quote:CCP Soundwave wrote:
I don't really think we're nerfing WH space as a whole. This is a pretty big information loophole where players outside of wormholes will be able to map population, activity etc. That's not intended and needs to get fixed.
Isn't that precisely what the NPC Kill API is? It maps population and acitivity.
I genuinely believe that Wspace would be better off without the data. While it might discourage a lazy corp from keeping a wormhole open and sit and wait till 2000 where the inhabitants usually would run their sites, it should still force people to be more active and actually go hunt for targets instead of waiting for that alarm clock to go off.
But I don't mind admitting that I am both a farmer and pvping. My reasoning is the same regardless. Isk is required to pvp. Shook Eelm's hand at Fanfest 2012 Shook CCP Soundwave's hand at Fanfest 2013
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Angsty Teenager
Broski North
284
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Posted - 2014.04.12 09:57:00 -
[21] - Quote
G0hme wrote: I genuinely believe that Wspace would be better off without the data. While it might discourage a lazy corp from keeping a wormhole open and sit and wait till 2000 where the inhabitants usually would run their sites, it should still force people to be more active and actually go hunt for targets instead of waiting for that alarm clock to go off.
Firstly im not sure why you think anybody would catch people running sites by leaving their static open till the people in the static would run sites, I hope you realize everybody who runs sites collapses or crits all WH's in their system before they do sites, you won't ever catch anybody running sites through a wormhole that was open before they started running sites, unless they are exceptionally stupid. You have two ways at the moment. You either get lucky and roll into them the second they are doing sites, or you do a logoff trap.
You also realize that even if you do logoff traps, you still have to actively hunt for targets? You just have the luxury of being able to kill targets that aren't farming the exact second you decide you want to scout around and look for them.
I would imagine more people would do logoff traps if it was an effortless ordeal...
My point is that number one, you have a pretty weak argument if you're willing to flip flop if CCP makes it lore friendly, and number two, you seem to think that the NPC kills stat makes wormholes ez mode when really all it provides a general sense of whether the wormhole is active and if it is active, what timezone the corp is active in, which, considering the fact that wormholes are somewhat inactive in general, is in my opinion a perfectly valid type of intel. If your corp is worried about displaying the fact that you're actively playing the game, that's a pretty weak argument for removing a type of intel here.
I'm done talking about this for now, since it's off topic. I made this thread because wormhol.es is a tool that I use and don't wish to see die like wormnav did. I really abhor eveeye/staticmapper, and I am not keen to use those. |
G0hme
Hoover Inc. Pandemic Legion
193
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 10:41:00 -
[22] - Quote
Yet you still havn't produced a single value point as to why you can't live without it. And it is effortless, having done it myself, I actually do have the first hand experience to say its effortless, if you know what you are doing. Hell Blood Union proves it on a daily basis. But I do understand what this change would do to one-trick-ponies and inactives, but then they don't belong in Wspace regardless. But well, CCP should prolly just introduce Arenas, much like dungeons you would simply queue up for a gank and wait until you get ported. That would definitely cater to the lazy.
But then again, I've lived in Wspace longer than your character has existed, why would I have any idea of what I am talking about.
I do wonder what people did before these websites and data was available. There must simply not have been ANY pvp at all, seeing as it seems to be so hard to live without. Shook Eelm's hand at Fanfest 2012 Shook CCP Soundwave's hand at Fanfest 2013
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Kalel Nimrott
Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate
963
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 11:16:00 -
[23] - Quote
G0hme, he never saw that you where in Lead Farmers GÇ£Point out to me a person who has been harmed by an AFK cloaker and I will point out a person who has no business playing this game.GÇ¥ - CCP Soundwave |
Saede Riordan
Alexylva Paradox
6076
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 11:21:00 -
[24] - Quote
This topic was good before it was arguing.
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Ziirn
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
27
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Posted - 2014.04.12 13:42:00 -
[25] - Quote
Really hope that someone continue to work on this and adding features!
Probably quite a few WH'ers would be willing to throw some billions at a developer that are willing to start working on this? Either as open source/public or private intel tool!
Take care Durzel! |
Dyscordia
Super Elite Friendship Club
17
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Posted - 2014.04.12 17:53:00 -
[26] - Quote
RudinV wrote:Angsty Teenager wrote:From the site: Quote:Due to real life issues I am on a long term hiatus from Eve and am therefore not currently doing any work on wormhol.es and don't forsee being able to do any for the forseeable future. I'm therefore releasing the full source code for anyone who would like to integrate and improve upon it. You can download it from Github here. The website will continue to operate for those people who just want to be able to use it in game. Can somebody please pick up this project? It is a fantastic tool, I'd hate to see it die. CCP should. tools like womnav, wormholes, dotlan etc. are absolutely necessary for daily wormhole navigation, so in general-good service>happy customers. and im sure this kind of things have the best invest/profit ratio.
Just to play devil's advocate - there are a whole slew of initiatives to make wormholes "more dangerous" that is being tossed around at this very moment (which include magic K162s that you wont' be able to scan or probe for x amount of minutes or x amount of mass).
The major complaint that folks have is that things are stagnant and predictable and it's hard to find fights. These tools, happen to be a major part of the problem regarding the current state of wormholes.
I'm not saying that I don't use them or want them to go away, but these incredible intel tools are part of what makes WH life so safe and cozy. Why would CCP invest their resources to provide players with the very tools that make the same players upset that WH life is so boring? I think happy customers are hard to please.
I would argue that these tools should always stay 3rd party. If you wanted to create your own intel tool and not share, it would be your advantage. The fact people share is pretty cool, but not a requirement. Players willing to put in that extra effort should be rewarded with an advantage, whether it's superior intel from a private coded website or an isk donation machine. If CCP institutionalizes these tools, the incentive for competition and innovation goes away quick. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
2159
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 19:08:00 -
[27] - Quote
Dyscordia wrote: The major complaint that folks have is that things are stagnant and predictable and it's hard to find fights. These tools, happen to be a major part of the problem regarding the current state of wormholes.
I'd be curious to know how you figure these types of sites are the problem? If anything I'd say they do more to help find fights than the reverse.
Wormhol.es for example gives intel, albeit not perfect. But it can give you an idea of when the residents are active etc.
Since using a mapping site like tripwire, we have actually caught some ships by the intel it gave. With WH's showing NPC kills it is essentially impossible for anyone to do PVE without someone being able to notice if they are watching for the spike in the graph.
These are just 2 examples that IMO make it easier to keep WH space from being stagnant and hard to find fights. I would be interested to know how exactly you came up with the conclusion of the opposite. You did a nice job of stating this "fact" without any information as to why. |
RudinV
Syndicate of Death BLOOD UNION
61
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 21:46:00 -
[28] - Quote
Dyscordia wrote:RudinV wrote:Angsty Teenager wrote:From the site: Quote:Due to real life issues I am on a long term hiatus from Eve and am therefore not currently doing any work on wormhol.es and don't forsee being able to do any for the forseeable future. I'm therefore releasing the full source code for anyone who would like to integrate and improve upon it. You can download it from Github here. The website will continue to operate for those people who just want to be able to use it in game. Can somebody please pick up this project? It is a fantastic tool, I'd hate to see it die. CCP should. tools like womnav, wormholes, dotlan etc. are absolutely necessary for daily wormhole navigation, so in general-good service>happy customers. and im sure this kind of things have the best invest/profit ratio. Just to play devil's advocate - there are a whole slew of initiatives to make wormholes "more dangerous" that is being tossed around at this very moment (which include magic K162s that you wont' be able to scan or probe for x amount of minutes or x amount of mass). The major complaint that folks have is that things are stagnant and predictable and it's hard to find fights. These tools, happen to be a major part of the problem regarding the current state of wormholes. I'm not saying that I don't use them or want them to go away, but these incredible intel tools are part of what makes WH life so safe and cozy. Why would CCP invest their resources to provide players with the very tools that make the same players upset that WH life is so boring? I think happy customers are hard to please. I would argue that these tools should always stay 3rd party. If you wanted to create your own intel tool and not share, it would be your advantage. The fact people share is pretty cool, but not a requirement. Players willing to put in that extra effort should be rewarded with an advantage, whether it's superior intel from a private coded website or an isk donation machine. If CCP institutionalizes these tools, the incentive for competition and innovation goes away quick. Same logic leads to make scripts, bots, other out of eve programming stuff what bring u advantage. The thing is that my point is to make eve logic people friendly, to have simple interface etcr. Simpler: I want to have advantage in game becouse I'm good player, not cose I'm good in c++ php excel or smth. |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
641
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 21:57:00 -
[29] - Quote
Have mixed feelings on the topic - its nice that stuff is unknown, etc. when your first discovering it, etc. but when your doing the same thing 10x over its just becomes a chore.
If it was fresh new content I'd be more inclined to agree with G0hme but as it is I don't see the need to reinvent the wheel for every new connection you make. |
QT McWhiskers
Hard Knocks Inc.
384
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Posted - 2014.04.13 01:23:00 -
[30] - Quote
This is the wormhole forums guys.We dont take too kindly to you null foks around here. Now get the hell OUT!!!
Nullsec is that way. |
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