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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20804
   |
Posted - 2014.04.15 23:10:00 -
[91] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Hey kids!
Who is super looking forward to the next industry devblog?
Meh. I'm actually more interested in the research one now, since it'll be the key to many of the things people are complaining about. But sure, the UI could prove interesting as well if they manage to build a proper workflow into it.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
BrundleMeth
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
112
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 23:10:00 -
[92] - Quote
Is this another AFK cloaking thread? |
Altessa Post
Midnight special super sexy
118
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 23:12:00 -
[93] - Quote
It looks extremely bad, --- for me.
I have no problem with risk, hiring mercenaries, cost etc. These can all be estimated and factored in. And they are the same for everybody. But how about the effort I put into the game in the last two years to position myself ahead of competition?
Yes, research and copy slots are a scarce resource. This is why setting up a POS in high sec is desirable. Yet, it is not easy. Building up the necessary faction standing was tedious and mildly boring. Yet, I did this to have a competitive advantage. And this now flies out of the window. Free POS in high sec for everybody!
I have no problem with adapting to new playgrounds. Yet, I think CCP is about to remove something for which I worked really hard. This appears neither balanced nor fair.
On the internet, you can be whatever you want to be. It is amazing that so many people chose to be stupid. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20804
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 23:14:00 -
[94] - Quote
BrundleMeth wrote:Is this another AFK cloaking thread?
Yes. Remove local.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
BrundleMeth
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
112
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 23:17:00 -
[95] - Quote
Altessa Post wrote:Yet, I think CCP is about to remove something for which I worked really hard. This appears neither balanced nor fair. Agreed... But no one seems to care if a few are affected to make a change for the many. It's happened to me too. I imagine, some day something will eventually drive me out. Sucks...
|
Xearal
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
902
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 23:18:00 -
[96] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Hey kids!
Who is super looking forward to the next industry devblog?
I'm looking forward to all of them.. and again agreeing with Tippia here ( we always seem to have the same idea !)..
The Research blog will be the most interesting one.. then I can finally tell my corpies: I TOLD YOU SO, as I have a whole bunch of them whining about it.. while I'm the one that runs the RnD POS and have yet to see anything that is worrying me.
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
4754
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 23:18:00 -
[97] - Quote
Tear Jar wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Nicolai Serkanner wrote:Thibault Etienne wrote:
Come on CCP. I hope you really aint thinking of making hi sec manufacturing less efficient. It makes no sense.
For the game it does make sense. What has lacked sense, based on what I see the nullsec crowd and the 2 or 3 industrialists out there (*snark!), is that players in complete control of their facilities do not have as much control over the efficiency of them as much as the cost and logistics of emplacing, defending, and maintaining them would imply. Given what they wanted, and for the reasons they cited over the years (I recall some of the goons being vocal about this) we would see a day of "Nullsec super-production facilities" that would put the production and value of a highsec installation to shame. While I don't have a dog in the fight, it only seems logical to conclude that if someone is going to pay for SOV and defend it, then having some balls-to-the-wall production capabilities is only fitting. Based on everything we have seen, creating passive income sources for null sec doesn't make people fight over it. It just reinforces cartels. Industry based income encourages stability. Small groups can't break it up and the big guys can agree not to attack each other's industry.
Possibly. But if there is a reason to fight (like limited resources for example, if this PVP game ever implements this one facet that was a catalyst for almost all human conflict, hint hint) it becomes possible to attack their industry with heavies instead of alt-owned corporations in highsec - a situation that resorts to "Talos fleets" and only benefits those that have the numbers.
These changes are likely going to cut in both directions. In the end I don't think anybody will have the game handed to them.
Bring back DEEEEP Space! |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
1396
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 23:19:00 -
[98] - Quote
Nolen Cadmar wrote:CETA Elitist wrote:Medalyn Isis wrote:
Also - "Allow Starbases to be anchored anywhere in high-security space and without standing requirements"
oh my GERD space city, here i come!!! \o/ Are they talking about anchoring a POS NOT at a moon? I interpreted "anywhere" to mean that the sec status would not effect the required standings for anchoring.
So.... POS's everywhere (not just on moons)? Is....is that going to be a thing? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20804
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 23:25:00 -
[99] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:So.... POS's everywhere (not just on moons)? Is....is that going to be a thing?
No.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
CETA Elitist
The Prometheus Society
34
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 23:31:00 -
[100] - Quote
That makes me sad. |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
1396
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 23:32:00 -
[101] - Quote
Tippia wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:So.... POS's everywhere (not just on moons)? Is....is that going to be a thing? No.
Ok...so I'm a bit dumb on the whole industry side of things, what's the big deal about these changes? It's not like research slots were readily available in hisec anyway. If the cost scaling works similar to corp office fees, won't the overall net effect be the same? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20805
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 23:41:00 -
[102] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Ok...so I'm a bit dumb on the whole industry side of things, what's the big deal about these changes? It's not like research slots were readily available in hisec anyway. If the cost scaling works similar to corp office fees, won't the overall net effect be the same?
The net effect is that slots will at the same time be more available and more worth-while to build for yourself in the form of POSes. It creates actual market dynamics around the (over)use of slots in popular areas and creates real economic incentives to find a quiet spot away from the crowd.
All of this is a huge crime against humanity and blatant goon-pandering, of course.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
1396
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 23:49:00 -
[103] - Quote
Tippia wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Ok...so I'm a bit dumb on the whole industry side of things, what's the big deal about these changes? It's not like research slots were readily available in hisec anyway. If the cost scaling works similar to corp office fees, won't the overall net effect be the same? The net effect is that slots will at the same time be more available and more worth-while to build for yourself in the form of POSes. It creates actual market dynamics around the (over)use of slots in popular areas and creates real economic incentives to find a quiet spot away from the crowd. All of this is a huge crime against humanity and blatant goon-pandering, of course.
That makes sense, I guess I thought that finding a quiet spot away from the crowd was what most industrialists did anyway.
Ok then, thanks for the info. |
ButtFungus
SOONWAFFE
31
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 23:53:00 -
[104] - Quote
BrundleMeth wrote:Altessa Post wrote:Yet, I think CCP is about to remove something for which I worked really hard. This appears neither balanced nor fair. Agreed... But no one seems to care if a few are affected to make a change for the many. It's happened to me too. I imagine, some day something will eventually drive me out. Sucks...
But... the n00bs! What about the n00bs? Who has Months and Months to spend improving their position in a game? The n00bs need to be complete masters of the game before their 14 day trial ends, or they won't subscribe. Where would CCP's new business model be without n00bs becoming demigods in 2 months.
After all, they are paying the same subscription fee as players with 8 years in game, why should they be less powerful? |
M1k3y Koontz
Thorn Project
Surely You're Joking
566
|
Posted - 2014.04.16 00:13:00 -
[105] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Nolen Cadmar wrote:CETA Elitist wrote:Medalyn Isis wrote:
Also - "Allow Starbases to be anchored anywhere in high-security space and without standing requirements"
oh my GERD space city, here i come!!! \o/ Are they talking about anchoring a POS NOT at a moon? I interpreted "anywhere" to mean that the sec status would not effect the required standings for anchoring. So.... POS's everywhere (not just on moons)? Is....is that going to be a thing?
It was mentioned when they were talking about POS revamping.
When they were talking about POS revamping.
POS Revamping.
So no.
How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space
The ROC
4700
|
Posted - 2014.04.16 01:01:00 -
[106] - Quote
ITT: The sky is falling. Run, you highsec cockroaches.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-áPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
Abyss Azizora
Astro Industrial Technologies
96
|
Posted - 2014.04.16 03:41:00 -
[107] - Quote
Medalyn Isis wrote:Also - "Allow Starbases to be anchored anywhere in high-security space and without standing requirements" This is going to be interesting. Devblog - Building Better Worlds
And.... They just killed an entire profession in Eve, corp standing boosters. Hell corp standings won't even matter anymore after this, so they can go ahead and just remove them along with it. |
Caleb Seremshur
Capital Storm.
Black Flag Society
225
|
Posted - 2014.04.16 03:41:00 -
[108] - Quote
Barbara Nichole wrote:I'll be watching; if they nerf high sec too much I will have no choice but to quietly slip away, saving myself a subscription fee.
You won't be missed. some random highsec industrial player is nothing to CCP compared to more Nullsec losers making extra industrial alts that will then run straight out of their sov space.
Just stating the facts o7
LP store weapon cost rebalance |
Tauranon
Weeesearch
Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
897
|
Posted - 2014.04.16 03:55:00 -
[109] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Tippia wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:So.... POS's everywhere (not just on moons)? Is....is that going to be a thing? No. Ok...so I'm a bit dumb on the whole industry side of things, what's the big deal about these changes? It's not like research slots were readily available in hisec anyway. If the cost scaling works similar to corp office fees, won't the overall net effect be the same?
There are 2 choices right now - tie up a character r-slot queuing a research job for days before it can even start, or use a pos and pay fuel. My experience was generally 15-25 days in highsec, and ~8-15 days in lowsec waiting.
The first one really sucks because of lack of immediacy for new players with cheap bpos that only need a days research and the second one really sucks for new players because its completely out of their capital and standings reach.
On the presumption that costs will some npc price of bpo * time basis, it should be possible for new players to use the system within their interest and isk budgets. The same issue arises with copies - my experience was highsec copy slots ~5-8 days, so that without a pos, it was painful to learn the invention process because of the absurd wait on copies.
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Pytria Le'Danness
Placid Reborn
87
|
Posted - 2014.04.16 06:30:00 -
[110] - Quote
Tippia wrote: In that case, a lowsec station without that surcharge would obviously inherently give you a 12% margin, which is very compelling.
I have been producing small stuff in low sec, and it was annoying as heck. Any serious production requires so much minerals brought in that you have to take losses to pirates into account as well. Admittedly, that was before Jump Freighters, but those things aren't cheap either, and losing one of these to a mishap during cyno will set you back A LOT.
Besides, there's the time lost hauling stuff back and forth.
I am not really sure I'd face those problems for 12% additional profit. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
15129
|
Posted - 2014.04.16 08:38:00 -
[111] - Quote
Pytria Le'Danness wrote:Tippia wrote: In that case, a lowsec station without that surcharge would obviously inherently give you a 12% margin, which is very compelling. I have been producing small stuff in low sec, and it was annoying as heck. Any serious production requires so much minerals brought in that you have to take losses to pirates into account as well. Admittedly, that was before Jump Freighters, but those things aren't cheap either, and losing one of these to a mishap during cyno will set you back A LOT. Besides, there's the time lost hauling stuff back and forth. I am not really sure I'd face those problems for 12% additional profit.
12 per cent addn margin is a lot different from 12 per cent more profit....
Here is my CSM9 endorsement list - vote for diversity of expertise : Ali Aras-á Mangala Solaris-á Mike Azariah-á Steve Ronuken
James Arget-á Xander Phoena-á Sugar Kyle-á corbexx-á mynnna-á progodlegend-á Psychotic Monk-á Jayne Fillion
|
mr ed thehouseofed
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
810
|
Posted - 2014.04.16 09:03:00 -
[112] - Quote
i gunna wait to all the dev blogs are released before bitching and moaning 
real gamers only need one toon . i want a eve pinball machine make it so CCP |
Cpt Swagg
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
8
|
Posted - 2014.04.16 09:24:00 -
[113] - Quote
More POSes?
Easier to POS?
More systems to POS?
How is this less manufacturing in highsec?
Also don't fear the change, embrace it.
- Cpt Swagg |
Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
321
|
Posted - 2014.04.16 09:45:00 -
[114] - Quote
This interests me a lot, and at the moment I definitely see some big pros and cons, which will hopefully get shaken out over the course of the next few dev blogs.
One thing I see, that I don't see anyone else mentioning, is this doesn't appear to help Nullsec even remotely. If you think escalating slot-costs is going to punish 6-station highsec systems, what do you think it will do to capped single-station nullsec systems. Sure, the mechanic will disperse production in highsec, but how many stations does The Forge have alone? It has 83 systems with a station; and in nearly all cases, multiple. So what is that, I would be shocked if it had less than 300 (I honestly have no idea). Deklein for example (and a good example as a stable, long-held, home region) has 41, and being capped at a single station per system, can never get above 68.
I'll hold my judgement, since there may be many more things to come, and nuances I'm missing (variable rate of slot cost change by region, maybe multiple stations in a system "sharing" the slot cost index, maybe removing the single-station limit on nullsec, etc), but at present, the need to disperse is going the wrong way in nullsec - ultimately we want contraction of sov-holdings, not enforcing sprawl, which this change on the surface appears to do. |
Masuka Taredi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
69
|
Posted - 2014.04.16 10:02:00 -
[115] - Quote
That is one very interesting blog that sounds very promising. breaking up mega hubs ( aka Jita ) and spreading some industry out a bit sounds very good to me. But will reserve judgement fully till the rest of the series of blogs are done. But if they shake things up right then this could help make industry a lot more dynamic. |
Zappity
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
1000
|
Posted - 2014.04.16 10:17:00 -
[116] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Medalyn Isis wrote:Given that current players who manufacture around market hubs will relocate further away more evenly spreading the distribution of manufacturing across high sec, I am wondering whether this will mean the profit margins are going to be now finally higher in low sec, and if so, then by how much.
Guess we need to wait to see the formula for this though. Probably. It'll depend on how the market adjusts to the industrialists' adjustments too. Let's say that they're a stubborn lot and all the industry prices spike by the 14% I keep seeing mentioned as the highest congestion charge. Will that then be the new baseline that everyone sets their price at (because why cut into your own profit margin)? In that case, a lowsec station without that surcharge would obviously inherently give you a 12% margin, which is very compelling.
I very much hope that low gets a look in. I think it will take a while for the 13k new moon positions to be filled so equilibration will take some time.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec. |
Grunanca
Doughboys
Shadow Cartel
213
|
Posted - 2014.04.16 10:31:00 -
[117] - Quote
Barbara Nichole wrote:I'll be watching; if they nerf high sec too much I will have no choice but to quietly slip away, saving myself a subscription fee.
Having lived in low sec for 5 years, I can for sure say you are overreacting. I have been doing production there quite a lot. If you are rich, get yourself a jump freighter and stay completely risk free. If not, train for a cloaky hauler and you will again be risk free.
Only time I ever lost a hauler in low sec was when I got too confident, which ended up with me not redocking when a machariel landed 40km away from where i was undocking. "That machariel cant one volley me and ill make warp" I thought. Got proven wrong. |
BrundleMeth
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
114
|
Posted - 2014.04.16 10:55:00 -
[118] - Quote
Cpt Swagg wrote:Also don't fear the change, embrace it.
- Cpt Swagg
Right...So if they came along one day and said they are removing every ship in the game except frigates you'd be ok?
Not likely but not ALL change is good... Just some is... |
Silvetica Dian
Manson Family
Advent of Fate
958
|
Posted - 2014.04.16 11:07:00 -
[119] - Quote
Thibault Etienne wrote:OK heres perspective.
I'm scottish but ill use this exapmple. No offence meant to people in my examples. I know this eve crowd just love to jump on someone.
High sec USA
Low sec Middle East
Null Sec Somalia and the Africas
If I'm making stuff to sell in USA I'd make it in the USA where its meant to be safer for production.
You think I'll fly from the states make stuff in the Middle East where its far less civilised then fly back to the USA fighting off gate camps and pirates to sell it.
Come on CCP. I hope you really aint thinking of making hi sec manufacturing less efficient. It makes no sense.
http://www.nrdc.org/living/stuff/t-shirt-life-story.asp
A US t-shirt. Cotton grown in US, milled in US, loomed and manufactured in China, finished in Mexico and sold in the US.
It makes sense to multinationals and the people that try and do it all in the US get out competed and driven from the market.
Welcome to capitalism. Feel free to sell your soul on the way in.
Money at its root is a form of rationing.
When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85 |
Silvetica Dian
Manson Family
Advent of Fate
958
|
Posted - 2014.04.16 11:15:00 -
[120] - Quote
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:Dave Stark wrote:i like that the poses don't require absurd standings now, that's nice. I sort of do as well, but what is going to happen if you want a moon and someone else has a POS there is this: 1) Pay 50mil to wardec corp owning POS; 2) Corp owning POS takes down their POS before war starts; 3) Corp owning POS jumps to new corp and throws up new POS at moon at the same time (2) is being completed; 4) Pay 50mil to wardec corp in step 3. 5) Give up on new moon.
Then i really hope no one is allowed to anchor a POS until they have been in their current corp for 10 days to prevent abuse like this.
Money at its root is a form of rationing.
When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85 |
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