You know what would help new players? Nerfing highsec, restricting NPC corp members to new citizens and character trading forums, and rewarding corporations that have a large focus on helping out new players. Sort of like BRAVE used to do before they got corrupted by test.

I'm a pve player (right this moment I'm shooting Sanshas in a mission) and even I know EVE is a pvp game.

PVE in EVE is a tool used for various reasons (to ake isk to do other things, to have fun, to build standings or gain materials to build other in game items) where as PVP (not just spaceship pvp but all kinds of conflcit interacitons) is the underlying purpose of the game.

The key people who created EVE Online were Ultima Online PVPrs, and they made a PVP centric game. You are probably to new to understand that, but if you'd ask questions more and opine less you might learn something.

EvE is a game with PvP, yes. It's also a game with PvE, making it a PvE game. It's a PvE game, It's a PvP game, and it's many other games as well. That's one of the things that makes EvE "worth a damn". Is the potential appeal for a wide array of people.

Super Mario Brothers is not a spelunking game. It will never be a spelunking game no matter how many people throw themselves into a bottomless pit.

You can even claim that in your opinion Super Mario Brothers is a spelunking game. But an opinion not based in fact is more properly called a delusion. No amount of opinion changes the fact that Super Mario Brothers is about killing magic reptiles in a pipe filled fantasy land the creator dreamt up while on drugs.

That's cool. Thanks for telling me about Super Mario brothers.

EvE is still a PvE game though. If it weren't, PVE wouldn't exist. PvP exists too, which makes EvE also a PvP game.

That's cool. Thanks for telling me about Super Mario brothers.

EvE is still a PvE game though. If it weren't, PVE wouldn't exist. PvP exists too, which makes EvE also a PvP game.

Eve is a game of prostitution, exotic dancing, and stripping. If it weren't prostitutes, exotic dancers, and strippers wouldn't exist.

You are saying "If Super Mario Brothers weren't a spelunking game, they wouldn't have bottomless pits."

Salvos please don't begin insulting people.

I'm doing just fine slaughtering these dudes politely and properly, within the forum rules.

Except within EvE, not using 3rd party software, you cannot engage in prostitution, you cannot engage in exotic dancing, or stripping. Those might exist as tradeable commodities, but in no way within EvE can you actually partake in that behavior.

I love how "insulate" is the new buzzword to try and get around asking for newbies to be bubble wrapped.

Get the hint, carebear apologists. Bubble wrapping new players just makes the inevitable fall harder. You are all asking to functionally HURT new players just to further your agenda towards perfect safety and themepark gameplay. It's so selfish it's sickening.

You know what, you're actually right. My sincere apologies.

Eve is a game of pimping. There are multiple missions for many factions where you can move and or sell the services of prostitutes, exotic dancers, and strippers. Further, many players will pay a marked up fee for these individuals in the correct context.

Pimping ain't easy, but someone's gotta do it.

You know what, you're actually right. My sincere apologies.

Eve is a game of pimping. There are multiple missions for many factions where you can move and or sell the services of prostitutes, exotic dancers, and strippers. Further, many players will pay a marked up fee for these individuals in the correct context.

Pimping ain't easy, but someone's gotta do it.

No, actually you are getting thrashed.
And no, I havent broken any forum rules, or atleast, none that Karous didnt already break first in his post to me.

No, actually you are getting thrashed.
And no, I havent broken any forum rules, or atleast, none that Karous didnt already break first in his post to me.

Oh, please do go at it you two, this will be fun to watch.

Oh, please do go at it you two, this will be fun to watch.

Oh, please do go at it you two, this will be fun to watch.

Troll Death Match?

I'm down with that.

So with the opposition to an Ultra-Sec no longer choosing to voice their opinions against it's implementation, the only logical step to take now would be for CCP to convert 19 high security systems into "Ultra-Sec"?

EvE is a game with PvP, yes. It's also a game with PvE, making it a PvE game. It's a PvE game, It's a PvP game, and it's many other games as well. That's one of the things that makes EvE "worth a damn". Is the potential appeal for a wide array of people.

"It's a sandbox"

... some bright spark in the back pipes up, EVE is a sandbox, so I should be able to do whatever I want. EVE is indeed a sandbox, however it is a Multiplayer Sandbox. The definition of a sandbox is not "I can do whatever I want", it is that rather than providing a specific experience, the game provides an environment and tools with which to craft your own experience. For single-player games, these definitions are functionally the same. The problem with a multiplayer sandbox is that not only can you do whatever you want, so can everyone else. You want to mine in highsec in complete peace? The game lets you. It's the other players that are the problem.

The hypocrisy of demanding the freedom to do what you like, while simultaneously demanding or celebrating the curtailment of other people's playstyles should be self-evident, but apparently it's not.

"EVE isn't a PvP game"

Yes, it really is. Being, as it is, a multiplayer sandbox, it is a shared environment which we all inhabit together and all affect. For any of it to be non-PvP (or close to), all of it would have to be non-PvP. Even if CCP made it so it was impossible to blow up spaceships in highsec, highsec would still affect the rest of the game just by being there. As long as we are all playing the same game, the guy in the corner mining endlessly has an effect on the guys fighting a war in the other corner. And so, requests to be able to act with impunity will be not be received well by those who actually understand the game.

"But people want PvE"

If people really want PvE, they are in the wrong game. End of story. But there is a positive feedback loop here. Carebears join a harsh PvP game. Carebears whine en masse (in the way that only carebears can whine) that there is harshness and PvP in this harsh PvP game. CCP tone down the harshness, and reduce the PvP opportunities. Being a more 'accessible' game, more carebears join. The whining gets louder. More nerfs. It goes on and on in a never ending cycle, eventually leading to PvP being marginalised in the areas carebears inhabit.

In this way they not only impact other people's playstyles, but also change the fundamental nature of the game, all the while whining about how everyone should be able to play however they want. And the worst part is that game like EVE are in the minority, and yet carebears insist on coming here and trying to convert it into one of their massively singleplayer games.

Eve is a game of prostitution, exotic dancing, and stripping. If it weren't, prostitutes, exotic dancers, and strippers wouldn't exist.

If it were to be a troll death match, it would have to be you and kaarous.

If it were to be a troll death match, it would have to be you and kaarous.

So with the opposition to an Ultra-Sec no longer choosing to voice their opinions against it's implementation, the only logical step to take now would be for CCP to convert 19 high security systems into "Ultra-Sec"?

[

Using one of my favorite quotes on this subject... because I believe it to be completely correct (important bits will be underlined).


Found here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=482176#post482176