I will support this "ultra-sec," assuming CCP implements an "enlightened pimping zone" (with that precise name) in Jita and the surrounding systems. We have, after all, come to an agreement that Eve is in fact a pimping game? So CCP should thoroughly support this facet of the sandbox.

Except that I'm not a troll, neither is Kaarous, kindly stop projecting your own vile posting habits on to others.

If we're going to play the subjectivity game of "EVE is whatever I say it is!", then I also want ponies. I did used to be in Fweddit, after all.

Yes it's his opinion, it's also CCPs as far as I know.

Except you can't disprove that EvE isn't a PvE game

No need to disprove it, the gameplay does that every single day.

The game play of logging in and doing PvE proves that it is a PvE game, every single day.

The gameplay of people falling into bottomless pits in Super Mario Brothers proves that it's a spelunking game, every single day.

Which doesn't prove that EvE is not a PvE game.

The funny thing is that it does.

The game play of logging in and doing PvE proves that it is a PvE game, every single day.

Except you can't disprove that EvE isn't a PvE game because you know it's impossible since PvE is a major minor feature of EvE. So is mining, so is industry, so is exploring. PvP can exist and does exist, but it's not the entirety of EvE, there is so much more to it than that.

you're the only one playing the "EVE is whatever I say it is!" game, when you say EvE is only a PvP game and nothing more.

You do realise that pretty much everything you can do in Eve, including the PvE either directly or indirectly affects other players?

PvP is not confined to shooting each other in the face, it emcompasses everything, including mining, missioning, production, exploration and trading.

TL;DR if it affects another player it is PvP, nearly everything you do in Eve potentially affects other players, ergo Eve is primarily a PvP game. CCP states it multiple times, as in no less than 12 times, in the New Player FAQ

You do realise that pretty much everything you can do in Eve, including the PvE either directly or indirectly affects other players?

PvP is not confined to shooting each other in the face, it emcompasses everything, including mining, missioning, production, exploration and trading.

TL;DR if it affects another player it is PvP, nearly everything you do in Eve potentially affects other players, ergo Eve is primarily a PvP game. CCP states it multiple times in the New Player FAQ

Then the argument of "no ultra-sec because it removes PvP" is invalid because "nearly everything you do in EvE potentially affects other players". Which means an Ultra-Sec could exist if it's rewards were balanced to the lower end of the spectrum to entice players to want to migrate into High, Low, and Null sec.

Just as it exists with High-Sec, the most profitable areas of eve are within the lower to non-security systems, to entice people to want to profit from them. With proper balancing, "Ultra-Sec" could exist because within the system, there would be "pvp" just like you mention almost everything being.

Then the argument of "no ultra-sec because it removes PvP"

Your logic, it is illogical.

For ultrasec to succeed it needs to be completely disconnected from the rest of Eve, which cannot happen because Eve, unlike every other MMO out there has only one shard; disconnecting a portion of Eve from the rest of the universe breaks the sandbox.

No ultra-sec because it removes choice.

It's a self-centred, selfish suggestion where players want everything they feel is valuable in the game, while limiting the play choices of other players in those systems.

If someone wants the choice to shoot at a rock, someone else should also have the choice to shoot at a ship.

He can, he can shoot at a ship in High, Low, and Null. No one is removing that choice, it's still there.

If he wants to remain in an environment where he can choose to shoot anyone anywhere, then he should stay out of Ultra Sec.

He can, he can shoot at a ship in High, Low, and Null. No one is removing that choice, it's still there.

If he wants to remain in an environment where he can choose to shoot anyone anywhere, then he should stay out of Ultra Sec.

it's only your opinion that it needs to be completely disconnected. It's entirely possible for it to be balanced, connected, and still function within desirable parameters.

It's entirely possible for it to be balanced, connected, and still function within desirable parameters.

Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.

Ultra sec would unbalance the viability of the EVE economy if it is possible to make any level of profit there.

How?

If ultrasec existed it would be exploited by older players; because they're in a far better position to take advantage of the benefits of such an area by virtue of their game knowledge than a newbie. It won't help newbies or less experienced players at all, thus rendering it invalid.

Would you ban players over a certain age from ultrasec? Ban certain ships?

This applies here methinks.

You have me agreeing with masternerdguy, the apocalypse is nigh.

It's also only your opinion that this is true. A zone where you are completely free from other players attacks would fall contrary to CCP's stated design philosophy for the game.

Which is why you keep the maximum potential profit low. So even if "veterans" want to go to ultra sec and "abuse" ultra sec, they're still being given less profit compared to if they were performing more valuable actions elsewhere.

I can absolutely guarantee that we'd find ways of making huge profits from ultrasec, and we'd be doing it in a risk free environment, which renders the risk/reward equation invalid.

Everytime CCP change anything about the game, someone figures out a way to profit from it, Eve is a game of unintended mechanics and consequences. CCP know this and are usually quite impressed with the unintended things we do with new stuff.

But considering that "everything is PvP", PvP still exists even in Ultra-Sec. If you're going to consider mining "pvp" because it has an influence, then the mining happening in ultra-sec is still "pvp" because it's influenceable by players activity.

But considering that "everything is PvP", PvP still exists even in Ultra-Sec. If you're going to consider mining "pvp" because it has an influence, then the mining happening in ultra-sec is still "pvp" because it's influenceable by players activity.