.

TL:DR Bring back NPC waves (and give us tags for more faction goodies), reset plex timers when hostiles leave plex, Change up offensive and defensive plex spawning and rewards and more large plex for larger ship stuff!

EDIT: PS I don't mention WCS or OGB as I really don't give a ducks arse about them and imo they have very little effect in the grand scheme of things.

All changes were made by player requests so FW is now fine, now stop making it better.

Very true! And I remember a few of us warning everyone to be care what they wished for!

All changes were made by player requests so FW is now fine, now stop making it better.

NPCs didn't stop the timer from running down in the old FW, and made plex fights completely unbalanced for actual PVP.

Plex warfare. The single NPC's for example. There is literally no point to them being there other than to stop/start the timer. The npc can be killed a a day old char in a T1 meta 0 fitted frig in all the plex sizes. The NPC's were 'tweaked' to supposed play less of a part in the pvp in the plex but instead they pretty much handed the plexes over to the farmers. I actually liked the old npc's waves. You had to kill them off and you had to keep aware of them otherwise you would get blapped.

Plex timers: These are a PITA imo. If I chase a WT out of a plex I have to run down the plex timer + whatever time he has ran previously. What a load of tosh! If I go and 'rescue' my militia help outpost why would it take longer for them to 'reset' back to normal activities! I think all FW plex timers should reset to 'neutral' 30s after the last 'hostile' player left grid.

I would also remove defensive LP from plexes that ran in a own militia held system. I would make plexes spawn as either Offensive or Defensive for offensive plex you get full LP modified by teir lvl and for defensive plex you get 75% lp modified by teir lvl. Now this is also dynamic based on whether the plex is your own militia or your enemies. And both militia plex would spawn in any system in the warzone regardless of who currently holds that system. So for example I'm Amarr militia and I'm flying in an Amarr held system. I spot a minmatar small plex. I warp to this plex. This plex is 'offensive' to me meaning I have to kill the npc's to enable the time to run down etc but I will get full LP from this plex plus a stack of tags from the npc's. I also spot an Amarr small plex in system. I warp to this plex and it is 'defensive' to me so I don't have to kill the npc's (an the waves will not spawn) and the timer just runs down as normal. I however only get 75% of the LP to run this plex as It didn't take an effort to run. Both small plex would be worth same value of VP in regards to capturing the system etc.

You had to kill all the rats before the latest changes. This was pretty much the only time the farmers actually abandoned FW.

Actually i would do away with NPCs in plexes altogether because:

1) I'm fine with just player on player interaction

2) I HATE it when my OWN FACTION NPCs ***** on my solo killmails!!!

Yeah uh, farmers have to watch out for actual non npc pilots coming to blap them too. This only changes things for farmers that plex at dead hours in backwater systems.

invalidating the time someone spent running a timer just because they might possibly be a farmer is silly. that pretty much kills ninja plexing and destroys part of what makes FW awesome; the ability to earn some income and do some damage with inferior numbers.

not sure if i understand entirely, but wouldn't this just make it easier for a faction that already controls most of the warzone to stay at a higher tier and create more of a problem with profit farming?

But hey if i understood right same guys who made game braking FW farm are now fixing industry so i believe game will be better !

There are more farmers than wannabe "pvpers" in farming warfare, so CCP is correct in listening to their subscribers.

Majority of FW players are currently more interested in quality of life improvements:

- block neutrals from entering plexes

There are more farmers than wannabe "pvpers" in farming warfare, so CCP is correct in listening to their subscribers.

Majority of FW players are currently more interested in quality of life improvements:

- block neutrals from entering plexes
- change hub mechanics so that people don't have to spend the LP they earned to maintain tier
- shorten the timers, especially the respawn timers are way too long
- improve LP payouts, or at least introduce some mechanism to protect against sudden drop of tier. Nothing is more frustrating than running a plex and then the failmilitia fails to hold tier.
- allow rookie ships in plexes
- allow the timer to run while cloaked
- introduce stations where we can convert LP to ISK without the stupid purchases

These are just for starters.

1. Increase the tank of the rats, requiring more DPS. A 1 day old alt in a 60dps frigate shouldn't be soloing the cruisers in mediums.

2. If a FW pilot is in the plex, the timer should be counting as normal. No FW pilot in the plex? Decay to neutral. No FW pilot in the plex for X minutes and timer is neutral? Decay to zero. FW pilot enters the plex and timer has decayed from neutral? Reset to neutral, count it up as normal. No FW pilot in the plex and timer decayed to zero due to inactivity? Despawn the plex, no LP awarded, no change to system contested percentage.

No more half finished plexes sitting around, no more disparity of effort.

You know, if you really want to **** on the farmers, once you get a system to 0%; def-plex all plexes down to about 1 minute and then leave the plex. You have now doubled the time the farmer will have to run those plexes.

You had to kill all the rats before the latest changes. This was pretty much the only time the farmers actually abandoned FW.

3) Don't allow booster alt effects to work in plexes unless the booster ship is in the plex.

Then you can complain about people having bigger corps or more friends and ask CCP to change the game again.

No, I just think the whole booster alt pvp is bad, and would like a place to escape it.

At the very least, if your t3 alt can't go in the plex its effects shouldn't go in the plex either.

2) let players know where plexes are attacked

[quote=Cearain]

2) let players know where plexes are attacked

All changes were made by player requests so FW is now fine, now stop making it better.

It's all in the details.

Another minor fix we need is to make the plex NPC spawn closer to the warp-in beacon. It takes too long to get to lock range. Alternatively remove the unnecessary locking range and speed debuffs of warp core stabilizers.

Players consistently said they did not want station lockouts. CCP did it anyway. It was a stupid change.

Remember:
ECM alts are the next thing on the list you must complain about because you will 'want a place to escape it'


What do you think people will do with those toons once they can't use them to boost?

Here we go again............. ill tell u were they are being attacked..... in BACKWATERS... like ive said before if ccp introduced something that told people were plexes were being popped i would pop erry one in erry system i pass

roam and find pvp u lazy ****

lets see how many pages cerain will bang on about this for......

I started playing after station lockouts, but it seems to be the only worthwhile reason to attack or defend a system.

It also makes logistics play a part in FW.

Why do you say it's stupid?

Did you guys have big multi-day fights over systems before station lockouts? If yes, why?

+1 to annoyance mail spam tactics.

And welcome back Cearain!!!

lol, return of Cearain to this forum means end of any chance for semi constructive discussion.

He's jumped back in as if nothing has changed since he disappeared in a giant puff of posts about plex notification.

I thought Cearain ragequit Eve? Dude, you can't quit and then come back like nothing happened. You lose your street cred. We need an explanation - an inspiring story on why you resubbed to this wonderful game.

lol, return of Cearain to this forum means end of any chance for semi constructive discussion.

He's jumped back in as if nothing has changed since he disappeared in a giant puff of posts about plex notification.

Do you consider your post constructive? What about XG or Hotpocket's post? Do you think those posts are constructive?

My last post before my break from the game was almost 8 months ago. Couldn't you get some sort of constructive discussion going in that time?

From the looks of the forums it looks like the same issues being rehashed. But yeah if you want to blame me that's fine. Whatever helps.

Doesn't it start with a "W" or something?

I agree with the unnecessary locking range and speed debuffs because what you're trying to say is you shouldn't be able to lock at all. +1 for your great idea which I agree with 100%.

WTF? So bringing up the FW neocom and checking which systems have had their capture status increased isn't an indicator on where people are running plexes? Sounds to me like someone wants an easymode PVP. ...

It's called high sec and that "accept dual" (whatever its called) button.

Plex fighting is not the same a "dueling". It's surprising that you have been in faction war this long and make that comment.

[quote=ALUCARD 1208]

Its common sense. You want people to pvp for plexes let them know where the players are attacking them. But its well known that you like farmville so I know you won't like this idea.

[quote=Cearain]
wait im confused is a farmer running the plex not attacking it??? it would just lead to the same whak a mole tactic but ud just get spammed with notifications aswell so double annoying...

wait im confused is a farmer running the plex not attacking it??? it would just lead to the same whak a mole tactic but ud just get spammed with notifications aswell so double annoying...

if u want "pvp mode:easy" arena **** theres something for that its called SISI

If you want timer notifications build a POS, setup a POCO, or go to null sov. Timer notifications are a pain in the posterior. We don't need them in FW, because sooner or later someone will report them or go and kill them. I do not need some easy peasy notification telling me I need to go 20 jumps because some stabbed farmer just started running the button in a plex.

Of course, you don't. And you especially don't want the militias knowing your alt is farming 2 systems next to them either.

Now skipping ahead this is when you say you don't have alts plexing and you are always ready and happy for pvp.

And then I ask then why is it you are so against militias knowing where you are taking their plexes then?

Of course, you don't have to look at the map that would give this information if you didn't want to. If you don't want to look at the chat window to defend your space you wouldn't need to do that either. You could minimize it.

So that is where the discussion usually devolves into personal attacks against me. You don't want to admit you like hide and seek plexing. You already admitted notifications would lead to more pvp in plexes. You even claimed the pvp would be too easy to come by right? So why not just admit it? You don't want fw occupancy to be based on pvp.

Wow, that 8 month break really helped you getting a perspective! You know best even more than ever before!

You want the map to light up when people are running plexes? take some acid, it will have the same effect. Plexes are being run everywhere, all the time.

It sounds like your on a bad trip and getting a bit paranoid. Calm down. Plexes are not being run "everywhere all the time."

Yes they are, actually.

You had a terrible perception of how faction war was working 8 months ago and you havent been to low sec since. .

Even when you were in Amarr, you were just a scrub on the periphery with no real influence or voice and demonstrated in old threads the meta from infermo onwards was a mystery to you (beyond tier 5 cashout pushes, which iirc you think are better than the current tier system lol).

You 'solution' doesnt address any problem that anyone i know in faction war perceives. Why not listen to FW peeps when they tell you that your idea is idiotic and unnecessary and listen to what they are actually saying?.

Alas, we have been here before, your autistic perspective will not yield, all threads for the next couple of weeks will be overrun with your compulsive posting.

There is problems with the state of farming, all of which could be helped with the handful of simple suggestions mentioned in this thread already, and many times elsewhere.

Seriously, I don't care what you think of me. But this is a thread called "FW plex mechanic discussion" I will post my view on that whether you like it or not. I am happy if you want to point out some sort of downside to the proposal, but the bickering is really old. Are you able to just stick to the proposal and discuss the pros and cons?

It comes down to what people really think the scope of Faction Warfare should be?

There are some really huge possibilities to cover some different play styles and therefore keep a player base that would otherwise be lost.

basically only people who enjoy FW as a pvp environment never did anything else, or are just seriously autistic

Well I was going to say "ADHD", but autistic works as well.

CCP designed the scope of FW simply to offer an effortless, risk-free, low investment method of wealth accumulation for untrained alts. I'm sorry if you have any other expectations.

Most sorry I am for the delusioned wannabe "pvp" types, who

a) run around chasing the 90% of FW players who are only interested in the main purpose, LP
b) run around with their 4 link alts and pirate implant sets and getting kills from scrubs who haven't yet blacklisted them
c) run around with 50 other tards and imagining it's somehow not the same as F1 sov monkey blob, just in shittier ships

basically only people who enjoy FW as a pvp environment never did anything else, or are just seriously autistic

Theres no drawbacks to any number of random suggestions. Were talking about results. Your suggestion lacks those too.

Just to be clear on your position.

You seem to be saying no one will look at this map that tells us where people are plexing in an aid to help them in the occupancy war. Accordingly you think no changes will result.

Well I disagree. I think lots of people would use this intel to help them fight for occupancy.

But I wonder if you realize that your view also contradicts that of Estella Osoka and XG who argued that intel of this sort would lead to easy pvp in plexes.

It can't be both. It can't lead to too much easy pvp in plexes and also have no effect.

Just to be clear on your position.

You seem to be saying no one will look at this map that tells us where people are plexing in an aid to help them in the occupancy war. Accordingly you think no changes will result.

Well I disagree. I think lots of people would use this intel to help them fight for occupancy.

But I wonder if you realize that your view also contradicts that of Estella Osoka and XG who argued that intel of this sort would lead to easy pvp in plexes.

It can't be both. It can't lead to too much easy pvp in plexes and also have no effect.

At no point does a notification make anyone care about the 90% of systems that people dont currently care about. That is why your idea is useless.

Finding a fight in FW within a couple of jumps of any home system is very easy.

So you have no solution to your problem and there is no problem to your solution.

Thank you for responding without insults.

Ok so you are saying no cares about 90% of occupancy. I might agree. But that wasn't always the case. Moreover, the faction war tier system is based on the belief that players should care about more than 10% of systems. The reason no one cares is because it is too difficult to defend systems from alts that just run away to a next door system and plex there.

If defending the other 90% of systems lead to great plex fights many more people would care about them, and and many more people would join faction war. This is IMO should be the goal of fw occupancy.

Intel tools combined with rollbacks would mean that alts could run but not hide and plex. That would be a huge hit to the income these alts make and would likely mean they would either decide to start fighting or they would leave occupancy alone. Either option would be good for faction war.

This notification system is terrible idea. It just has abuse written all over it.

Say you and 4 of your corp mates have your alts get into bombers and put them in small and medium plexes all over the warzone, most likely some backwater system. And then it would go a little something like this:

Alt enters plex GÇô notification
cloak
decloak GÇô notification
15 secs
cloak
decloak GÇô notification
15 sec
cloak
decloak GÇô notification
15 sec
cloak
decloak GÇô notification
15 sec
cloak

ThatGÇÖs 5 notifications in just over a minute. Plus 4 other buddies thatGÇÖs ~25 notifications/min. That is almost a notification once every 2 secs. Plus others doing this and actual PvPers. This is just a receipe for **** tsunami. That GÇ£intelGÇ¥ channel would look worse than Jita local.

I like the idea of have an infinity point within the plex, like the ESS. Have the outpost point a ship that is within 45km of the beacon, while still making the capture point 30km. This helps keep the character from jumping in and out of point/plex capturing rage at will.

Make it so the outpost itself is targeting the ship making it unable to cloak. Limit the outpost to being able only to target 1 enemy ship at a time. This is so that if there is a group fight inside the plex the whole fleet isnGÇÖt screwed if they cannot win the fight. And they have a chance to extract, except for 1 sacrificial lamb.

Once the plex is captured the outpost stops targeting the wartarget, allowing them to warp out.

Even this idea can easily be abuse. Defenders can stop fitting an point and go for an extra web or more tank. ItGÇÖs a video game. Nothing is going to be perfect.

There is no awesome plex fights in systems no one cares about. If people want to force a larger fight they go to someones home system.

This notification system is terrible idea. It just has abuse written all over it.

Say you and 4 of your corp mates have your alts get into bombers and put them in small and medium plexes all over the warzone, most likely some backwater system. And then it would go a little something like this:

Alt enters plex GÇô notification
cloak
decloak GÇô notification
15 secs
cloak
decloak GÇô notification
15 sec
cloak
decloak GÇô notification
15 sec
cloak
decloak GÇô notification
15 sec
cloak

ThatGÇÖs 5 notifications in just over a minute. Plus 4 other buddies thatGÇÖs ~25 notifications/min. That is almost a notification once every 2 secs. Plus others doing this and actual PvPers. This is just a receipe for **** tsunami. That GÇ£intelGÇ¥ channel would look worse than Jita local.

I like the idea of have an infinity point within the plex......

I've had awesome plex fights in plenty of systems that were not home systems. Maybe you only think big fights are awesome so you may disagree.

ccp giving this intel in the form of a map would really accomplish nothing.

I am not sure what these 4 people would try to accomplish.

Every time they cloak the timer will roll back. They would make no lp. They would gain no occupancy.

I guess if the enemy militia wanted to waste their time doing this that would be their prerogative but they would lose the war. Meanwhile militia that would have pilots holding plexes would win.

Also keep in mind that ccp was talking about giving this intel in the form of a map not really notifications. So this behavior would really accomplish nothing.

Players soon learn to ignor the notifications, and then the whole concept is moot.

stuff...

I think the real question you should ask is: "Who is going to travel to these backwater systems and chase cloaky afk plexing alts?

I'm not. You're not. Cearain has stated previously that he won't.

Who exactly is going to this (very boring) dirty work to keep the backwater systems safe from the afk plexing hordes?

Cearain has previously calculated that it will only take 10ish people to control the entire warzone under his new regime. DO YOUR PART!

Disinformation/reduces the ability of the opposing militia from being able to determine which is a real threat or just spam.





The only way they are going to lose the war is if they stop caring about their home systems.



If it is map form are they going to like the stats that lite up on the map? Such as ships killed in the last hour. The whole warzone will glow red. Those kind of stats will be somewhat useless since a plex only takes like 15 minutes. You are only going to catch them if they stay in a system for almost an hour. If it is GÇ£blipsGÇ¥ on the map when a plex is starting to be run the same tactic I showed earlier would create the same disinformation and turn the map into a Led Zeppelin laser light show.



And everyone will go back the system currently is use of having intel channels.

Im right, you are all wrong

If ccp implemented the changes I suggest i would be back in faction war immediately.

I've read enough.

We get it, you are right, we are all wrong. All of us. However unlikely that seems.

The only change that I suggested here that wasn't previously suggested by other players was that alt boosters wouldn't work in plexes unless the alt booster was in the plex as well.

Many other people have suggested that these alt boosters should be on grid all the time. Many people agreed with that, but surely as time goes on more and more such people will simply lose interest in the game. So my suggestion is the same as theirs but if ccp doesn't want to make a drastic change all at once it would be great if they would at least give casual pvpers some respite from them in plexes. Really I would much rather they need to be on grid all the time. So even there I am not posting anything new.

The other 2 changes I proposed were made by other players. And they were also supported by other players. Sorry if you don't like the fact that I find the current fw system fairly demotivating. But I am not alone.

But here we go again. You can't actually think about the idea and give any sort of constructive feedback regarding the idea. Instead you just try say something like Cearain is selfish therefore everyone should ignore his ideas. That's called an ad hominem and its not really a rational way to look at the world.




I am not sure who "all of us" are. CCP and several people proposed better intel. Plenty of people have seen the need for it since faction war started.

But again why not just tell us what is wrong with the idea. And after I give a response instead of saying "Nobody agrees with you so you must be wrong" why not think about the response regarding the proposal instead of attacking the person.

CCP had Faction Warfare second on the list of things that they have been working on in the Game Design Panel. Apparently these things are "either in production or being thought of currently". The list was:

- Industry
- Factional Warfare
- Ship balancing
- Module balancing
- Exploration - Scattering mechanic
- New Player Experience
- Starmap
- Camera/Scanner

I'm surprised. I thought CCP had forgotten all about FW apart from as an ISK sink.

CCP had Faction Warfare second on the list of things that they have been working on in the Game Design Panel. Apparently these things are "either in production or being thought of currently". The list was:

- Industry
- Factional Warfare
- Ship balancing
- Module balancing
- Exploration - Scattering mechanic
- New Player Experience
- Starmap
- Camera/Scanner

I'm surprised. I thought CCP had forgotten all about FW apart from as an ISK sink.

So sad if this is all CCP can do for eve.
[

CCP had Faction Warfare second on the list of things that they have been working on in the Game Design Panel. Apparently these things are "either in production or being thought of currently". The list was:

- Industry
- Factional Warfare
- Ship balancing
- Module balancing
- Exploration - Scattering mechanic
- New Player Experience
- Starmap
- Camera/Scanner

I'm surprised. I thought CCP had forgotten all about FW apart from as an ISK sink.

There are some changes coming with the summer expansion. At the FW roundtable Fozzie revealed changes coming in the Summer Expansion.

-Cannot cloak within capture radius of the button.
-Rats will respawn so you'll need a DPS ship to plex.
-Large Outposts being introduced (standard plex spawn rather than random)

I am a fan of the no cloaking withing plexes as the new T2 cov-ops venture, the Prospect, would get annoying very fast.

The new change, won't do anything at all. Here are the easy steps. Sit right at the edge of capture radius and aligned away from button. When you see something on short scan, move full speed ahead, and then cloak. Problem solved. This will take farmers all of an additional 10 seconds.

Yeah, it's a step in the right direction. I was kinda hoping the would make the decloaking area larger then the capture point, say like 45km. At least they will still have to be fairly attentive in their efforts.

I don't AFK d-plex with a cloak anyway. The cloaking device is too expensive (2-3x the cost of the ship w/ stabs). Just sit there AFK with max sound, wait for a locking sound, warp off, then give a friendly "GF" in local. That way you can keep warping into them and out to keep them busy while you fly your main over to kill them.

The new change won't do anything at all. Here are the easy steps. Sit right at the edge of capture radius and aligned away from button. When you see something on short scan, move full speed ahead, and then cloak. Problem solved. This will take farmers all of an additional 10 seconds.

wonder what "Starmap" means. When they last spoke about fw they indicated that we might bet some better intel through some mapping changes that they were doing on the whole. I wonder if that is what they were getting at.
quota

Yeah, it's a step in the right direction. I was kinda hoping the would make the decloaking area larger then the capture point, say like 45km. At least they will still have to be fairly attentive in their efforts.

i do not know why you want to nerf cloakky ships in a plex? maybe you farmer alt got ganked too often by cloakky ship?

Adding npcs will make plexing harder for everyone but especially the pvpers. Farmers have no need to fit for pvp so they can entirely get set up to deal with npcs. Increasing the importance of rats just makes fw more of a pve game.

Its not true that rats never interfered with pvp. Fighting for amarr there were plenty of times I had to warp out due to rat damage. It was hard to run majors even in a dominix that had any pvp mods set up. It seems ccp is going backwards to the extent they want npcs to play a larger role in occupancy. Players wanted plexing to be pvp but ccp seems fine with it remaining a carebear activity.

If it were simply that the current level rats respawned during the countdown would that be a major problem? They are pretty weak and very easy to kill in a PvP ship. Maybe this is designed to just help remove unfit frigates.