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Arthur Frayn Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 30	Posted - 2011.11.15 09:32:00 - [1] - Quote Missile hardpoints removed. New bonuses: Battlecruiser Skill bonus per level: 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret damage 10% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret optimal range Role Bonus: 95% reduction in the powergrid need of Large Hybrid Turrets 50% reduction in the CPU need of Large Hybrid Turrets 50% reduction in the capacitor need of Large Hybrid Turrets Thankyou CCP. Now the major difference between the Naga and Talos is range vs tracking.
Kietay Ayari Monopoly Money Operations 38	Posted - 2011.11.15 09:45:00 - [2] - Quote If this is true... so happy D: no words to describe how happy... PLEASE show me something to prove this is true so I can sleep well tonight! P.S. Maybe its OP but I still want its 4th low slot back Ferox #1
Onictus Legendary Knights Vorpal's Edge 26	Posted - 2011.11.15 09:52:00 - [3] - Quote Kietay Ayari wrote: If this is true... so happy D: no words to describe how happy... PLEASE show me something to prove this is true so I can sleep well tonight! P.S. Maybe its OP but I still want its 4th low slot back It just became a hands down better ship than Talos....... Tornado is still king of the hill, by miles, but its better than something.
Arthur Frayn Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 30	Posted - 2011.11.15 09:53:00 - [4] - Quote Kietay Ayari wrote: PLEASE show me something to prove this is true so I can sleep well tonight! Load up Sisi, you lazy b+¡tch. ...Oh FINE, here you go.
Ishanmae Binding Energy 0	Posted - 2011.11.15 10:02:00 - [5] - Quote Looks good! Looking forward to ginving it a try!
Kietay Ayari Monopoly Money Operations 38	Posted - 2011.11.15 10:06:00 - [6] - Quote D: I know the tornado is better... but its better than all 3 by miles. I really have no idea why CCP did this... even when they nerfed all 4 the Tornado received the least nerfs :\| But minmatar already win everything so as long as its as good as the other two races Im happy! I think a Torp Naga will be a good ratting ship if you are just trying to clear all the battleships! Ferox #1
Noisrevbus 11	Posted - 2011.11.15 10:07:00 - [7] - Quote Onictus wrote: It just became a hands down better ship than Talos....... Tornado is still king of the hill, by miles, but its better than something. The prowess of a straight damage bonus can't be denied, but the hands down bit is arguable. Prior to the change, with a Rail-fit, they had about equal damage-to-reach scaling while the Talos not only retained it's tracking bonus but also remained an odd 300m/s faster and 1s more agile, ontop of having a similar or slightly better buffer even under a shield tank. With the Naga's damage-to-reach tuned up it does what it's meant to do while the Talos retain a better performance at 25% lower ranges, or 25% less damage but 25% better tracking at equal ranges; with all the aforementioned perks. As noted initially, the general application of a straight damage bonus should not be denied though.
Onictus Legendary Knights Vorpal's Edge 28	Posted - 2011.11.15 10:19:00 - [8] - Quote Noisrevbus wrote: Onictus wrote: It just became a hands down better ship than Talos....... Tornado is still king of the hill, by miles, but its better than something. The prowess of a straight damage bonus can't be denied, but the hands down bit is arguable. Prior to the change, with a Rail-fit, they had about equal damage-to-reach scaling while the Talos not only retained it's tracking bonus but also remained an odd 300m/s faster and 1s more agile, ontop of having a similar or slightly better buffer even under a shield tank. With the Naga's damage-to-reach tuned up it does what it's meant to do while the Talos retain a better performance at 25% lower ranges, or 25% less damage but 25% better tracking at equal ranges; with all the aforementioned perks. As noted initially, the general application of a straight damage bonus should not be denied though. I'm pretty sure that with decent skills and faction fusion/phased plasma a 1400mm Tornado is quite capable of blasting the the other three hulls into structure in one volley, something you aren't going to be able to replicate with rails. On SiSi a I fit one up with a 8k buffer with a nano and ACR full rack of 1400s and a pair of gyro's it was vollying a myrm 9000 a whack into his heaviest resist....I don't have Large Projectile spec yet (I will soon). Talos to Naga.... A rail naga with a scripted TC will be able to use anti-matter clear out to lock with 425s a comparable Talos will have to kick down to Uranium, and at those ranges, tracking frankly doesn't matter so there is a 15-20% advantage just on faction ammo. I haven't tinkered around with Talos and spike/javelin, so I just don't know the numbers. Talos is only better ship for ship if they are using blasters and in point range where the tracking may make up for the disadvantage its going to have by suffering more falloff past 10km.
Jack Miton Lapse Of Sanity Narwhals Ate My Duck 2	Posted - 2011.11.15 11:18:00 - [9] - Quote Oh get stuffed.... It's CALDARI, it should have MISSILES. Hybrids are for gallente FFS.
styh Sotken Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities 0	Posted - 2011.11.15 12:04:00 - [10] - Quote 2 accounts training hybrids.. *sigh
Dr Sodius State War Academy Caldari State 4	Posted - 2011.11.15 12:13:00 - [11] - Quote ahhhh I love the tears of carebears at the morning!!!! thx
vorneus Hub2 1	Posted - 2011.11.15 12:19:00 - [12] - Quote Onictus wrote: I'm pretty sure that with decent skills and faction fusion/phased plasma a 1400mm Tornado is quite capable of blasting the the other three hulls into structure in one volley, something you aren't going to be able to replicate with rails. On SiSi a I fit one up with a 8k buffer with a nano and ACR full rack of 1400s and a pair of gyro's it was vollying a myrm 9000 a whack into his heaviest resist....I don't have Large Projectile spec yet (I will soon). Lol if this is true. I haven't looked into the ships in detail (read: flied them on Sisi) but it's pretty disappointing to see that yet again it seems Minny have the best of the bunch. Bonused 8 x 1400mm arty alpha on a highly manouvreable hull? A gang of just 2/3 of these is going to be ridiculously lethal and cost effective, particularly with much better lock times than BS hulls and higher agility to GTFO. Let the instapopping commence. -Ed
Onictus Legendary Knights Vorpal's Edge 28	Posted - 2011.11.15 12:47:00 - [13] - Quote vorneus wrote: Bonused 8 x 1400mm arty alpha on a highly manouvreable hull? A gang of just 2/3 of these is going to be ridiculously lethal and cost effective, particularly with much better lock times than BS hulls and higher agility to GTFO. Let the instapopping commence. -Ed Yup their only weakness is going to be Combat Ceptors and ships that can hit back. Try that crap on a up armor BS, they are going to clean your clock, sure you'll likely get away but if the ship can tank the alpha, you best be somewhere else because the next shot.
Grimpak Midnight Elites Echelon Rising 143	Posted - 2011.11.15 12:49:00 - [14] - Quote well now I have a reason to use large hybrids. ty CCP. [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img] [quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Onictus Legendary Knights Vorpal's Edge 28	Posted - 2011.11.15 12:55:00 - [15] - Quote Grimpak wrote: well now I have a reason to use large hybrids. ty CCP. I still don't have a single point in Caldari ship command.
Grimpak Midnight Elites Echelon Rising 143	Posted - 2011.11.15 12:58:00 - [16] - Quote Onictus wrote: Grimpak wrote: well now I have a reason to use large hybrids. ty CCP. I still don't have a single point in Caldari ship command. well... now that I think about it I can also fly the tornado. which means that while I still have a reason to use large hybrids (no, the talos wasn't a good enough reason), the tornado is still better. [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img] [quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Tanya Powers Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 202	Posted - 2011.11.15 14:28:00 - [17] - Quote Kietay Ayari wrote: D: I know the tornado is better... but its better than all 3 by miles. I really have no idea why CCP did this... even when they nerfed all 4 the Tornado received the least nerfs :\| But minmatar already win everything so as long as its as good as the other two races Im happy! I think a Torp Naga will be a good ratting ship if you are just trying to clear all the battleships! Because diversity in a game is to have a lot of ships available but most players flying minmatar. Balance by CCP
The Underdark Serenity A.E. Shades of Gray 0	Posted - 2011.11.15 14:41:00 - [18] - Quote soo we have 2 ships with hybrid bonus's? in other-words missile users get nothing this expansion, way to leave people out. Caldari specialize in missiles, it's only proper that missiles should be on it
Phyress Perkone Caldari State 5	Posted - 2011.11.15 14:55:00 - [19] - Quote One one hand, at least we're not splitting weapon bonuses anymore. On the other hand, I would have preferred it to be a torp boat for pure capkiller potential. On the secret third hand, I think this means I'll never see another Ferox in space...
Naomi Knight Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 41	Posted - 2011.11.15 15:03:00 - [20] - Quote Phyress wrote: One one hand, at least we're not splitting weapon bonuses anymore. On the other hand, I would have preferred it to be a torp boat for pure capkiller potential. On the secret third hand, I think this means I'll never see another Ferox in space... imho the blaster fitted naga can do nearly as much dmg as the torp fitted one especially with the new dmg bonus Ferox isnt used anyway, new bc wont change a thing with that.
The Underdark Serenity A.E. Shades of Gray 0	Posted - 2011.11.15 15:28:00 - [21] - Quote I'm fighting this change for the Missile users, If this goes through they get nothing this winter. Caldari is a missile race, at least give them hardpoints back, if not any bonus's.
Shadowsword The Rough Riders Ares Protectiva 63	Posted - 2011.11.15 15:43:00 - [22] - Quote The Underdark wrote: I'm fighting this change for the Missile users, If this goes through they get nothing this winter. Caldari is a missile race, at least give them hardpoints back, if not any bonus's. Hardpoints without bonuses would be behond pointless. And who said a race was specialized in only one weapon type? By your logic, since gallentes are the drones specialists, then hybrids wouldn't belong to anyone.
The Underdark Serenity A.E. Shades of Gray 0	Posted - 2011.11.15 15:49:00 - [23] - Quote Shadowsword wrote: The Underdark wrote: I'm fighting this change for the Missile users, If this goes through they get nothing this winter. Caldari is a missile race, at least give them hardpoints back, if not any bonus's. Hardpoints without bonuses would be behond pointless. And who said a race was specialized in only one weapon type? By your logic, since gallentes are the drones specialists, then hybrids wouldn't belong to anyone. Howdy, I corrected myself in the proper Feedback forums, Please see https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=364253#post364253 Balancing feedback topic
Shawn Pierce Wandering Incursion Exterminators 6	Posted - 2011.11.15 15:50:00 - [24] - Quote Arthur Frayn wrote: ...Oh FINE, here you go. Whoa ... the new ships aren't naked any more?? Request: Post several pics of each of the new ships at different angles so we can see them in all their textured glory. My SSD doesn't have enough room for the Singularity client, otherwise I'd take a look myself.
Goose99 Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 159	Posted - 2011.11.15 16:15:00 - [25] - Quote Arthur Frayn wrote: Missile hardpoints removed. New bonuses: Battlecruiser Skill bonus per level: 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret damage 10% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret optimal range Role Bonus: 95% reduction in the powergrid need of Large Hybrid Turrets 50% reduction in the CPU need of Large Hybrid Turrets 50% reduction in the capacitor need of Large Hybrid Turrets Thankyou CCP. Now the major difference between the Naga and Talos is range vs tracking. 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret damage 10% bonus to Large Projectile Turret falloff ^It must be fixed thus for the Naga to not suck.
Marl Shawn Global Economy Experts Stellar Economy Experts 2	Posted - 2011.11.15 17:50:00 - [26] - Quote Jack Miton wrote: Oh get stuffed.... It's CALDARI, it should have MISSILES. Hybrids are for gallente FFS. THIS!
Kietay Ayari Monopoly Money Operations 38	Posted - 2011.11.15 18:31:00 - [27] - Quote The Underdark wrote: soo we have 2 ships with hybrid bonus's? in other-words missile users get nothing this expansion, way to leave people out. Caldari specialize in missiles, it's only proper that missiles should be on it Caldari does not specialize in missiles. Caldari are equally hybrid and missiles. Just count the number of missile ships vs hybrid ships they have. So far HALF of the Caldari ships have been semi useless because of how bad hybrids have been combined with the useless range bonus Caldari hybrid ships usually get D: I want to be able to use ALL of my Caldari ships :D Please give them damage bonuses! Ferox #1
Thelron Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 1	Posted - 2011.11.15 18:53:00 - [28] - Quote Kietay Ayari wrote: The Underdark wrote: soo we have 2 ships with hybrid bonus's? in other-words missile users get nothing this expansion, way to leave people out. Caldari specialize in missiles, it's only proper that missiles should be on it Caldari does not specialize in missiles. Caldari are equally hybrid and missiles. Just count the number of missile ships vs hybrid ships they have. So far HALF of the Caldari ships have been semi useless because of how bad hybrids have been combined with the useless range bonus Caldari hybrid ships usually get D: I want to be able to use ALL of my Caldari ships :D Please give them damage bonuses! Additionally, many of the missile ships can tote some rails along if they want (hey, it works for the guristas... oh... wait...). So, while there is a strong leaning towards missiles they are by no means the end-all-be-all of caldari weapons systems. Now, BLASTERS can GTFO- that's where the split should be, really. If a caldari ship is getting in someone's face it should be a one-way trip to deliver torpedo-based death (or, if it's a frigate, rocket-based death. Cruisers need not apply), not to fire off blasters. Even that is, to me, questionable (and I love me some torpedo explosions, but really "in your face" just isn't very Caldari- I'd prefer even the frigate level to be more firmly rails/lights than blasters/rockets). So, not terribly surprised to see the siege launchers go. I do think the hardpoints should stay, both for fail-fit giggles (maybe you want a REALLY BIG platform for your AMLs) and to retain the possibility of cruise launchers (really, if there's such a worry about people running missions in cruise-nagas set a role bonus that basically breaks cruise missiles against anything smaller than another BC without penalizing them against BS+ (big hit to explo radius but a boost to velocity? or something that actually works with the missile-math). Damage bonus to rails is an interesting thought, though it makes me wonder where this leaves the Rokh (since both ships have similarly rediculous range, is the BC really able to out-damage the BS, and if so has CCP indicated if that's where they want things or??? Don't have access to/time to crunch the actual numbers atm...)?
Kietay Ayari Monopoly Money Operations 38	Posted - 2011.11.15 19:18:00 - [29] - Quote xD Of course it will out DPS the Rokh. It has the same amount of turrets but with a damage bonus. It will just have 1/10 the tank a Rokh has D: Either way, considering how powerful the Tornado is, the Naga should get both weapon systems as well as a full bonus to both weapon systems. And the Talos and Oracle should get something too, for them to be on par with the Tornado. Ferox #1
Daergaar Yama Seki 0	Posted - 2011.11.15 19:59:00 - [30] - Quote The Underdark wrote: I'm fighting this change for the Missile users, If this goes through they get nothing this winter. Caldari is a missile race, at least give them hardpoints back, if not any bonus's. We actually have enough missle boats, thank you. We don't need another, especially one with a split weapons system with no bonus to missiles. That's what the Rokh is for (and yes I'm aware it's a battleship). We don't actually have any good hybrid turret battlecruisers yet (the Ferox is not a ship).

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