Hmm... I heard there was a module for such situations, you know - survey scanners. But yeah again you actually have to be at the keyboard to use it...

Don't be lazy and play the game... That's the point we are making

On paper, ignoring the extra MLU of the retriever, yes.
However like I said, EFT Warriors never get the whole story. You are trying to EFT warrior also by simply looking at stats.
Which only give you the 'perfect world' scenario.

Actual use in space says despite the stats basically matching, the Proc actually doesn't do as well because it doesn't get as close to 'ideal' efficiency as the Retriever does on average.

Yup, if you are fitted for gold-farming you can fit a survey scanner instead of tank and never burn away a roid again

I dont get why/how squeezing the tiny percent is worth dying to some of these people

nah, its not that bad. I still get 51k ehp from a procurer with one of the mid slots fit with a survey scanner. But god forbid if you ask someone to fit a Damage Control II onto their mining barge :D Its amazing how a little less yield and one module will increase your life expectancy mining :D

No I can't give you a precise figure for 'real space yield' difference, because it's real space.
You can't sit down and calculate a precise figure that you will always be at.

However empirical testing does give me somewhere around a 5%ish margin using scanner + 2 MLU set ups. If you max yield a retriever for 3 MLU then retriever pulls further ahead. (Given the actual paper difference on a current max yield fit is a Proc mines 91% of the Retrievers yield, assuming ideal situations)
This will obviously vary based on the day, if you get distracted by rats just when you need to be cycling the strips, if you are pre aligning perfectly just as your hold fills, if you are running a fleet with a hauler orca so you can just poop ore out and not have additional time in warp on the proc, etc

But the end reality is, the Retriever as it stands currently does mine a significant amount more. So it's not terrible CEO's telling people to use it. Post Summer, this difference is obviously slightly reduced as there is a time reduction component built into the ship skills, which brings them both closer to ideal situations, but the proc benefits more from that.

Amazingly there are a lot of people who don't mine in large groups in this game.

The difference in ISK would be.... Hmmmm, hey, about that 14% mark you calculated. Amazingly a difference in ore translates directly into a difference in ISK income.

And a hauler 'alt' is A: A cost monthly. And B: Halving the income. So unless you are ISBoxing a massive fleet or running large scale ops (Hi Orca I referred to and Hi Covetor that is even better at that point) a dedicated hauler is inefficient.

A tanked barge won't save you in low, it won't save you from a wt and it won't save you from someone who really wants to gank you. All it will save you from is the casual gank for lols. And simply warping off when you see a catalyst or thrasher land on grid is just as good for saving you from the lols most times assuming you don't sit at 0 on the belt warp in.

Which doesn't make them dumb, it simply means they aren't running 20 different accounts and playing 40+ hours a month.

As for Dave, It doesn't reduce pay, since you have to calculate pay per account till you have covered your plex. And if you don't have enough time to mine 40 hours a week, with current plex prices.....

In Highsec, unboosted. 20 Mil an hour is a fair mining income. Again, market fluctuations, if your favourite ore is available, if you are using T2 Strips & T2 crystals etc.
So 14% of that is 2.8 Mil/Hour difference. Up to double for Null

Using a hauler account is another account you have to spread the income over. If you use 2 accounts, and one hauls, thats 50% income for each. So the more accounts the easier it is to add a hauler. But that hauler account has to save you more time/isk than the share it takes.

And by the time you get to that being worth it you should easily be into the Covetor/Hulk territory from fleet size, and therefore the Retriever/Proc comparison has gone out the window anyway.
This goes double for a combat ship 'guarding' you in highsec, since not only can it not haul so dilutes income automatically, but it could make more ratting than a mining ship mining normally can. Low sec you could have a combat fleet in system I guess running anoms or group running lvl 5's or something. But again, that takes you to a large scale group.

As for Null & WH, yes, tank matters there because you are likely to have a defence fleet forming before they even get there, and be in a large enough group. Which was why I didn't list Null & WH in tank not really mattering.

As for Dave, It doesn't reduce pay, since you have to calculate pay per account till you have covered your plex. And if you don't have enough time to mine 40 hours a week, with current plex prices.....

Why are you mining if you want to PLEX your accounts in the first place? That doesnt make any economic sense whatsoever unless you ARE running a multibox multiship single player fleet.

Not sure i agree with the skiff changes.

As someone who mines ice in 1 the extra low is nice but now there are pretty much no soft targets you can kill in 0.0 in a solo inty/ stealth bomber, heck even destroyer with the drone buffs and extra bay.

you mean, you might actually have to put some effort in to getting free kills? how abhorrent.

Not sure i agree with the skiff changes.

As someone who mines ice in 1 the extra low is nice but now there are pretty much no soft targets you can kill in 0.0 in a solo inty/ stealth bomber, heck even destroyer with the drone buffs and extra bay.

I think he means that it's damn near impossible to kill this ship with anything that can reasonably get past a gatecamp. Yeah you can wipe it out in a battleship, but that's not exactly a ship for roaming or hunting with.

so the ship designed to be the safest to mine in, is the safest to mine in. excellent.

2.8 Mil/hr = a brand new ship + 8 mil profit in 10 hours. If you are getting ganked more than once every 10 hours, reassess where you mine? That's the maths view. If you ascribe a value to ganker tears, that's totally different (I value failed ganker tears myself)

The Hauler alt is costing you lost income, also known as opportunity cost. If you could have made more money by using them to mine instead of haul, you have lost money. The same thing that makes minerals you mine not free when you build a ship with them.

And in high, there is no practical 'guarding' over any length of time. If you happen to know gankers/wt's are in the area, you may be able to do it, but you aren't going to stay millisecond aware for hours & hours on end. That's scientifically proven and why armies rotate sentries every 2 hours when they can if they need that level of alertness.

Low sec, go on, drop a 20 man mining fleet with a 10 man defence fleet and see how long it takes a roaming gang to land on you with a cyno of carriers. You will show up as a significant hot spot on the map in low sec with any sizeable group, and any non sizeable group will get eaten alive by a roam that comes across them.

As for PLEXing via mining only making sense if you are running large multibox fleets, that was my point.

The Hauler alt is costing you lost income, also known as opportunity cost. If you could have made more money by using them to mine instead of haul, you have lost money.

"safer than the other barges" is fine.

"close to invincible" is not. They swung this one too far.

"safer than the other barges" is fine.

"close to invincible" is not. They swung this one too far.

"safer than the other barges" is fine.

"close to invincible" is not. They swung this one too far.

I assume you'll lead the charge?