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Will eve ever have instanced battlefields?

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HippoKing	Posted - 2006.05.20 11:06:00 - [91] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire I wonder, will EvE ever have perma-death? i can't imagine that happening tbh. That one risk i think i would never take.
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2006.05.20 11:07:00 - [92] Originally by: HippoKing Originally by: Jenny Spitfire I wonder, will EvE ever have perma-death? i can't imagine that happening tbh. That one risk i think i would never take. /me sees PvP vets using WCS. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
Chewan Mesa	Posted - 2006.05.20 11:08:00 - [93] What can I say...I agree with almost all of the replies so far, despite those of the OP...
Severa Crest	Posted - 2006.05.20 11:15:00 - [94] Originally by: Adrian Kerensky Originally by: Nee'kita Frist From reading all three pages of this thread I get this. OP doesn't care what we say. So to bring you something completely different One day a group of elephants were walkaing down a street when they suddnely met their mortal enemy the mouse. They began to stamp to them but were soon over run with mice that they had to invade places for peanuts to supply the elepant army with food and to prevent a further infeststation of mice. Consquently my cheese with the block and knife makes carrots from rubber tires. I think that sums up the level of respect that people have for the OP quite nicely, good stuff . To the OP: We could sit here for 3 weeks telling you why your idea will not be implemented in EVE and why that is a good thing but you will not listen anyway so there's no point. I suggest you go and play Guild Wars since that seems to suit your play style better. Maybe you guys SHOULD have some respect for him, he is as entitled to his view as anyone else on the forums, and I should think anyone with any manners would. A lot of people on these forums seem to look at what the majority of posts say in a thread and agree without taking time to form anything resembling an argument. Also many seem to think they know what is best for Eve, but they do not, the OP has given his view and is sticking to it without flaming or trolling as many others have done.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.05.20 11:20:00 - [95] Originally by: Severa Crest Maybe you guys SHOULD have some respect for him, he is as entitled to his view as anyone else on the forums, and I should think anyone with any manners would. A lot of people on these forums seem to look at what the majority of posts say in a thread and agree without taking time to form anything resembling an argument. Also many seem to think they know what is best for Eve, but they do not, the OP has given his view and is sticking to it without flaming or trolling as many others have done. Well, its kind of provocative when somebody new comes in and claim to know how eve pvp should work, ignoring all the reasons given why its a bad idea. But i agree, people dont need to flame. Personally i just asked him to play another game. --- The Eve Wiki Project
Flesh Eater	Posted - 2006.05.20 11:25:00 - [96] OP has said that for a lot of players, PvP and fleet battles are impossible..... ????? WHY??? And about having arenas to similate battle, it might sound harmless as an option, but I can see people getting addicted to the comfort of risk free PvP, and use it INSTEAD of going out and participate in real PvP. The great thing about eve is that your actions have an impact on the universe as a whole. Why not be a part of this, and take some risks? After all, isn't this why we play games, since we can do things in them that we can't in real life? (obviously I wouldnt spend all my savings on something, then risk losing it 5 mins later in RL...)
Severa Crest	Posted - 2006.05.20 11:25:00 - [97] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Severa Crest Maybe you guys SHOULD have some respect for him, he is as entitled to his view as anyone else on the forums, and I should think anyone with any manners would. A lot of people on these forums seem to look at what the majority of posts say in a thread and agree without taking time to form anything resembling an argument. Also many seem to think they know what is best for Eve, but they do not, the OP has given his view and is sticking to it without flaming or trolling as many others have done. Well, its kind of provocative when somebody new comes in and claim to know how eve pvp should work, ignoring all the reasons given why its a bad idea. But i agree, people dont need to flame. Personally i just asked him to play another game. The OP did not ask to change the way that Eve PvP worked. He suggested that the many many people who NEVER venture out of safe space should be able to have some fun on an instanced battlefield ( and maybe others would use them just to test ). On these battlefields, no isk can be made, no wars can be won or lost - how could this possibly affect the "real" PvP of Eve except maybe showing people that think PvP is Ebil that it actually isnt?
Plutoinum	Posted - 2006.05.20 11:28:00 - [98] Edited by: Plutoinum on 20/05/2006 11:32:06 No battlegrounds. That pvp style was one of the reason, why I left wow after some months again. Don't want to see all these battlegrounders polluting eve with their shooter style pvp with no consequences, just playing matches all day long. Boring. It would be a different game. edit: If I want to play matches and pvp without consequences, I play a shooter. I like that, too, but in MMORPGs I prefer that winning and loosing has an impact.
Severa Crest	Posted - 2006.05.20 11:30:00 - [99] Originally by: Flesh Eater OP has said that for a lot of players, PvP and fleet battles are impossible..... ????? WHY??? And about having arenas to similate battle, it might sound harmless as an option, but I can see people getting addicted to the comfort of risk free PvP, and use it INSTEAD of going out and participate in real PvP. The great thing about eve is that your actions have an impact on the universe as a whole. Why not be a part of this, and take some risks? After all, isn't this why we play games, since we can do things in them that we can't in real life? (obviously I wouldnt spend all my savings on something, then risk losing it 5 mins later in RL...) I personally do not think his suggestion would have any impact on Eve PvP, maybe more people would become better with practice - and as many have already stated (some quite rudely) it lacks the purpose and risks/rewards that people who already PvP are addicted to.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.05.20 11:33:00 - [100] Originally by: Severa Crest The OP did not ask to change the way that Eve PvP worked. He suggested that the many many people who NEVER venture out of safe space should be able to have some fun on an instanced battlefield ( and maybe others would use them just to test ). On these battlefields, no isk can be made, no wars can be won or lost - how could this possibly affect the "real" PvP of Eve except maybe showing people that think PvP is Ebil that it actually isnt? Im afraid it would affect the real pvp of eve. People would stick to empire even more if they could get their quick pvp fix without any penalties. I dont know if you played WoW, but when blizzard introduced instanced pvp with battlegrounds, the real world pvp died over night. Im not saying this will happen in eve, but having instanced pvp in empire would certainly create even less incentive for going to 0.0. Or what do you think? --- The Eve Wiki Project
Too Kind	Posted - 2006.05.20 11:37:00 - [101] Originally by: Severa Crest I personally do not think his suggestion would have any impact on Eve PvP, maybe more people would become better with practice - and as many have already stated (some quite rudely) it lacks the purpose and risks/rewards that people who already PvP are addicted to. I'm quite sure that the lazy people just would play matches all day long and tell on the forums about these matches. Then they'd demand rewards for scoring in pvp like ein WoW etc. After some time they wanted new battlegrounds, new playstyles etc. I don't want to see that. That's EVE-light. I prefer politics and pain.
Nyphur	Posted - 2006.05.20 11:38:00 - [102] Eve doesn't have PvP without a point. That's something games have like counterstrike or World oF Warcraft. Eve is less of a game and more of a virtual universe, the difference being that most things have a point in a real universe and thus the same si true of a virtual one. In eve, I might blow someone up for the cargo they're carrying or the modules they have fitted that I want or simply because they're in an area of space that they are not allowed to be in, as dictated by alliance leaders. There's a point to PvP. When you remove the risk of loss and the point, PvP becomes meaningless. It doesn't take long before it becomes boring... Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Severa Crest	Posted - 2006.05.20 11:39:00 - [103] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Severa Crest The OP did not ask to change the way that Eve PvP worked. He suggested that the many many people who NEVER venture out of safe space should be able to have some fun on an instanced battlefield ( and maybe others would use them just to test ). On these battlefields, no isk can be made, no wars can be won or lost - how could this possibly affect the "real" PvP of Eve except maybe showing people that think PvP is Ebil that it actually isnt? Im afraid it would affect the real pvp of eve. People would stick to empire even more if they could get their quick pvp fix without any penalties. I dont know if you played WoW, but when blizzard introduced instanced pvp with battlegrounds, the real world pvp died over night. Im not saying this will happen in eve, but having instanced pvp in empire would certainly create even less incentive for going to 0.0. Or what do you think? I dunno maybe I'm wrong, but I feel because _so_ much can be gained from regular PvP - the instanced battlefields would be no more than a sidetrack. Can you really see alliance PvPers giving up 0.0, and pirates giving up low sec activities to fight all day in instanced battlefields - I really can't see it happening.
Severa Crest	Posted - 2006.05.20 11:41:00 - [104] Originally by: Too Kind Originally by: Severa Crest I personally do not think his suggestion would have any impact on Eve PvP, maybe more people would become better with practice - and as many have already stated (some quite rudely) it lacks the purpose and risks/rewards that people who already PvP are addicted to. I'm quite sure that the lazy people just would play matches all day long and tell on the forums about these matches. Then they'd demand rewards for scoring in pvp like ein WoW etc. After some time they wanted new battlegrounds, new playstyles etc. I don't want to see that. That's EVE-light. I prefer politics and pain. Don't get me wrong I love the PvP system of Eve, and as I've said earlier as long as the battlefields remain non-profit/competetive, I'd be in favour.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.05.20 11:42:00 - [105] Originally by: Severa Crest I dunno maybe I'm wrong, but I feel because _so_ much can be gained from regular PvP - the instanced battlefields would be no more than a sidetrack. Can you really see alliance PvPers giving up 0.0, and pirates giving up low sec activities to fight all day in instanced battlefields - I really can't see it happening. No no, of course not. Those guys fight for real reasons. But all the ones just going around trying to find fights do it because they like the excitement of it. They dont have any real reasons besides fun to do it (except maybe looting something good i guess, but you could make more money mining/trading and buy that stuff if you wished). Im a little worried that instanced pvp would remove some of that kind of fighting from the game. But who knows... the debate will go on. --- The Eve Wiki Project
Severa Crest	Posted - 2006.05.20 11:49:00 - [106] Originally by: Jim McGregor No no, of course not. Those guys fight for real reasons. But all the ones just going around trying to find fights do it because they like the excitement of it. They dont have any real reasons besides fun to do it (except maybe looting something good i guess, but you could make more money mining/trading and buy that stuff if you wished). Im a little worried that instanced pvp would remove some of that kind of fighting from the game. But who knows... the debate will go on. Indeed the debate will go on I just see it as something for the empire bound to do, theres a thread floating around this forum says - "why are there so many people in empire" - I just feel once they experience fights they'll become more open to the prospect of true PvP, and those that don't, will continue what they have always done ( making less profit, wasting time in a battleground )- and the PvP community will have lost nothing.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.05.20 11:52:00 - [107] Originally by: Severa Crest I just see it as something for the empire bound to do, theres a thread floating around this forum says - "why are there so many people in empire" - I just feel once they experience fights they'll become more open to the prospect of true PvP, and those that don't, will continue what they have always done ( making less profit, wasting time in a battleground )- and the PvP community will have lost nothing. Yeah. I agree that potential losses keep alot of players from even trying pvp, at least until they get rich and can afford to lose ships. So i guess some kind of instanced training area or duelling area could be good for that purpose. But they better not make it too good so people start spending all their time in there. --- The Eve Wiki Project
Severa Crest	Posted - 2006.05.20 11:55:00 - [108] Originally by: Jim McGregor Yeah. I agree that potential losses keep alot of players from even trying pvp, at least until they get rich and can afford to lose ships. So i guess some kind of instanced training area or duelling area could be good for that purpose. But they better not make it too good so people start spending all their time in there. Agreed
Splagada	Posted - 2006.05.20 11:56:00 - [109] gang those you want to safe fight with, and warp gang to a safespot with an instadock ready not much can happen really.... - Member of [AAST] 400x90 ok?
Adrian Kerensky	Posted - 2006.05.20 12:01:00 - [110] Edited by: Adrian Kerensky on 20/05/2006 12:03:08 Originally by: Severa Crest Maybe you guys SHOULD have some respect for him, he is as entitled to his view as anyone else on the forums, and I should think anyone with any manners would. A lot of people on these forums seem to look at what the majority of posts say in a thread and agree without taking time to form anything resembling an argument. Also many seem to think they know what is best for Eve, but they do not, the OP has given his view and is sticking to it without flaming or trolling as many others have done. The fact is that every post in this thread he has posted so far has just ignored everything said by other long time well respected players and carried on his unrelenting arguing without even considering what these people have said shows why he is not being respected. He is a new player that (I would guess from his posting) has just come from Guild Wars where there is no risk in PvP, and when he found out that PvP has risk in EVE after taking his cruiser against a BS decided he didn't like that and so has posted on these forums proclaiming EVE PvP "not real PvP". The whole ethos around EVE imo is balancing risk and reward and his idea goes completely against this. CCP are proud to state that EVE is a game in which players are all in one universe together, not shards or instances. Adding instanced PvP areas to the game with no risk would completely go against the fundamental concept of EVE.
Ediz Daxx	Posted - 2006.05.20 12:04:00 - [111] I havent bothered to read anything except the OP first post..i just wanna say... test server?? aka the server where you buy ships at like 100isk each and any other thing on the market!?!?!
Severa Crest	Posted - 2006.05.20 12:14:00 - [112] Originally by: Adrian Kerensky The fact is that every post in this thread he has posted so far has just ignored everything said by other long time well respected players and carried on his unrelenting arguing without even considering what these people have said shows why he is not being respected. He is a new player that (I would guess from his posting) has just come from Guild Wars where there is no risk in PvP, and when he found out that PvP has risk in EVE after taking his cruiser against a BS decided he didn't like that and so has posted on these forums proclaiming EVE PvP "not real PvP". The whole ethos around EVE imo is balancing risk and reward and his idea goes completely against this. CCP are proud to state that EVE is a game in which players are all in one universe together, not shards or instances. Adding instanced PvP areas to the game with no risk would completely go against the fundamental concept of EVE. That was his opinion, he is entitled to it, and people should respect that just as much as a "respected, old time player" - he also pays his subscription, and is as important to this game as ANY other player. Indeed Eve does balance risk Vs rewards, but he asked for no rewards, so shouldn't there be no risks? And as for the instancing and sharding this may be so, but it will be part of the universe, kind of like cyber sex in station . As he has said, regular forum posters are a minority, there are 120k? subscribers. I do not claim to know what they think, but we should respect it.
Adrian Kerensky	Posted - 2006.05.20 12:29:00 - [113] I haven't said his opinion is worthless, I have said that he should consider what is said by those who know what they are talking about before posting the same stuff over and over again. Of course every subscriber has his own opinion, however that does not mean that we should respect every poster's opinion, especially new players who have only just joined the game and are declaring a long ingame activity worthless because it carries risk that they do not like. By your argument I should respect someone who comes on the forums and says 'we should remove minmatar from the game because their ships look rubbish'. There is a big difference between not having respect for a poster, and deeming his opinion worthless. Also note the fact that he said "like maybe a simulation arena..."log in"". He is not talking about instanced areas, he is talking about a seperate no-risk PvP shard, maybe with tournaments, something that will never be implemented as he would like it and - to a certain extent - something which already exists in the form of the Test Server. It doesn't matter how long we sit here arguing it will never happen. Tranquility is as close to real life in terms of risk and reward as an MMO can get in my opinion and CCP have done an amazing job in creating this game, they are not about to ruin their game by creating instanced PvP arenas which contradict what EVE is, or a separate shard for the purpose of no risk PvP. Just because something harbours no reward does not mean that it should have no risk. If you desire PvP in this game either join those that live on the test server because of being too afraid to loose something on tranquility, or go out and take the chance. My two pence.
Fester Addams	Posted - 2006.05.20 12:30:00 - [114] I have not read the replies so I dont know if this has already been said however what you are asking for already exists and has been available since... day 1 I think. The instance has had many names including chaos, test server and currently singularity. Its an instance you can log into with your friends and any oponents you can find that want to do some fighting with no risk of ingame loss. A clear bonus is that you can by simply joining a special instance corp called Fight Club (its still active right?) get access to just about any ship and any module out there at no cost. Feel free to use it as much as you can as even those of us who do not wish to join in there will benefit from it as any bugs you run into is data CCP can use to prevent the bug reaching tranq. In short, why ask for somthing that is already ingame?
Severa Crest	Posted - 2006.05.20 12:38:00 - [115] Originally by: Adrian Kerensky what you said Actually earlier on this page you wrote that another post summed up the amount of respect people had for this player. Only now have you written a post consisting of your opinion in oppsition to his, I didn't mean to rant but why didn't everyone post this constructively in the first place rather than "go play WoW" then high fiving each other over it?
Vaugue	Posted - 2006.05.20 12:54:00 - [116] Edited by: Vaugue on 20/05/2006 13:04:49 Originally by: HippoKing snip the greatest rush comes from knowing if the fight goes badly, you've lost something which truly means something.snip I myself have yet to experience full PvP... I've had a few skirmishes in Low Sec. I've only ever lost 1 ship and it was 0.4 ratting in my merlin when i was roughly 3months old. A guy in a kestral came along and webbed + scrambled me and proceeded to fill my ship with rockets. I will just say i had this ship pretty decked out for a 3month old noob.. arby standards.. 150mm protos.. at first i was crushed yes. I even opened a channel and proceeded to cuss the guy out (i am not proud of this) calling him a noob hunter and such (and other more nasty things). When my rant finished I decided to add the guy to my address book for future revenge.. A couple of days later (why i don't know) i peaked at the guys info.. the guy was 2 months younger than i was in character age. I was speechless... and almost ashamed of myself. When i first joined (and im sure many others make this mistake) i thought SP meant everything.. but i learned real quick that it does not. I guess with my long winded story what I'm trying to get at is that yes loss can hurt and at the time it did hurt.. but you get over it and move on, but when that guy swooped in on me and that noise of bleep bleep bleep of that guy locking me was blaring out my speakers and the rockets started flying my heart whet crazy .. i thought it might almost explode. Then i saw my pod for the first time. Needless to say i put my ship back together within a couple hours and proceeded to move on and make some money back. I ended up looting a little batam npc in Haatomo with 2 named strip miners on him. Let's just say it was enough to replace 10-15 of the merlin that i had lost. In the end i must agree with the majority of the posters here... risk means a lot in this game and i honestly think i can say this is the first game to ever make me feel like i did lose something that day. For if that day i just respawned in a station with my ship entact as if nothing ever happened and i just shrugged it off.. i feel i would not be here today. To know that when the day comes (which is very very soon for me : I am only roughly 30-40 days to my Nighthawk and Seige Warfare Specialization) that i enter battle with enemies and friends a like, that everything is on the line, is when i will experience what EvE is all about and what these other posters are trying to get accross. IN all honestly i don't think i would want it any other way either. It's like they have been saying... you only get out of it what you put in. You don't just experience EvE you live it. The day EvE just becomes an experience like any other game is the day EvE die's. That's my 2isk ========================= My Space Eve-Bay
Severa Crest	Posted - 2006.05.20 13:07:00 - [117] All the reasons stated in this thread are reasons why a battleground system WOULD NEVER replace traditional PvP for the vast majority of players who PvP. Thats not to say that it's not wanted by some players. I have met a lot of players who have never tried PvP and never will, and others who have tried it but don't like it. Maybe this solution would suit them. The test server is another alternative, but with infrequent mirrors a new chararacter would have to wait months to use it, and the mirror would quickly become dated. I really don't know why I'm still in this thread, an implementation of this would make little difference to me. I guess someone has to stick up for the new guys....
Adrian Kerensky	Posted - 2006.05.20 13:07:00 - [118] Originally by: Severa Crest Originally by: Adrian Kerensky what you said Actually earlier on this page you wrote that another post summed up the amount of respect people had for this player. Only now have you written a post consisting of your opinion in oppsition to his, I didn't mean to rant but why didn't everyone post this constructively in the first place rather than "go play WoW" then high fiving each other over it? They do this because as I said earlier, hardly anyone has respect for a new player who has one taste of PvP in EVE in a situation where there was so little chance of winning he/she might as well have self destructed, decides he/she doesn't like it and comes on the forums saying that PvP in EVE is "not real PvP" and wants no risk PvP zones. As has been explained countless times in this thread the whole point around PvP in EVE is the risk risk of loosing and this will not change. I appologise for my first post and admit that I should have written a more constructive post, however the forums are filled with threads these days of new players whining over things they don't like. Last week there was someone saying how he didn't see what the point of PvP was, and asking why he should have to bear being attacked or war decked by another corp if he doesn't want to be. People like Hippoking (who seems to have given up on the OP) are well established members in the community and if a poster can't be bothered to even consider what has been said by these people why should we put the effort in to explain?
Severa Crest	Posted - 2006.05.20 13:09:00 - [119] Originally by: Adrian Kerensky Originally by: Severa Crest Originally by: Adrian Kerensky what you said Actually earlier on this page you wrote that another post summed up the amount of respect people had for this player. Only now have you written a post consisting of your opinion in oppsition to his, I didn't mean to rant but why didn't everyone post this constructively in the first place rather than "go play WoW" then high fiving each other over it? They do this because as I said earlier, hardly anyone has respect for a new player who has one taste of PvP in EVE in a situation where there was so little chance of winning he/she might as well have self destructed, decides he/she doesn't like it and comes on the forums saying that PvP in EVE is "not real PvP" and wants no risk PvP zones. As has been explained countless times in this thread the whole point around PvP in EVE is the risk risk of loosing and this will not change. I appologise for my first post and admit that I should have written a more constructive post, however the forums are filled with threads these days of new players whining over things they don't like. Last week there was someone saying how he didn't see what the point of PvP was, and asking why he should have to bear being attacked or war decked by another corp if he doesn't want to be. People like Hippoking (who seems to have given up on the OP) are well established members in the community and if a poster can't be bothered to even consider what has been said by these people why should we put the effort in to explain? I agree on those points, however these arguments are rarely solved on these forums, sometimes its best to walk away from such threads.
Tachy	Posted - 2006.05.20 13:10:00 - [120] A couple of you went from 'Pilot, Respected for defending their opinion in a fair way.' to 'Zero Tolerance Asshead posting drivel without engaging Brain 1.0'. Bravo! In real life, we have sports and war. In EVE we have war - and a couple of people who would like to have ingame sports too. How far would the sportive PvP impact the 'True PvP' outside of concord protected space? Wow! It might even be used to pass the time at the gatecamp if it was accessible right from your ship in space. Go to the test server for fooling around or having fun for an hour or two with frieds that might happen to live some 80 or more jumps away? Licking my doorknob is more fun because it doesn't go offline or have an incompatible patch. Now hurry back to your gatecamp so you do not miss the next rookie exploring EVE's vast amount of systems. Or turn over your hulk while you're mining some ice for your Alliance leader's POS and his Dread. --==*-- Megadon CCP wanted a well known artist and celebrity to test the new font so it's approval would be well known. They got Ray

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