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Stan Smith
Remenent British Federation
19
   |
Posted - 2011.11.16 03:57:00 -
[61] - Quote
Player A has armor
Player B designs a sword to defeat player A's armor
Player A designs armor that defeats player B's armor 95% of the time
Player B demands that "they" need to nerf player A's armor because their sword's effectivness is lowered
What's wrong with this picture?
Working as intended |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
391
|
Posted - 2011.11.16 04:31:00 -
[62] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
This is why I push for point-to-point system warp capabilities for more ships.
Sometimes a null camper will give good advice on the forums in how to avoid bubbles but that works mainly against bubble campers who are bad at it. Even after a short time of avoiding bubbles I started to figure out how to counter the counters and if I can figure that out, anybody can.
Until then, the Great Wall of Carebear is not coming down. The only thing I send into gate camps and bubbles is a cheap T1-equiped alt.
Oh, its plenty possible to counter any cloaked rush out if you have a fast ship at your disposal. But then, it is possible to juke said ship's trajectory (though it is cutting it quite close). These mind games can go quite deep. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
146
|
Posted - 2011.11.16 05:03:00 -
[63] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
This is why I push for point-to-point system warp capabilities for more ships.
Sometimes a null camper will give good advice on the forums in how to avoid bubbles but that works mainly against bubble campers who are bad at it. Even after a short time of avoiding bubbles I started to figure out how to counter the counters and if I can figure that out, anybody can.
Until then, the Great Wall of Carebear is not coming down. The only thing I send into gate camps and bubbles is a cheap T1-equiped alt.
Oh, its plenty possible to counter any cloaked rush out if you have a fast ship at your disposal. But then, it is possible to juke said ship's trajectory (though it is cutting it quite close). These mind games can go quite deep.
Strategy.... in a game.... go figure.... |
Aloe Cloveris
The Greater Goon
Clockwork Pineapple
37
|
Posted - 2011.11.16 05:26:00 -
[64] - Quote
To kill the T3 Cruiser, shoot at it until it dies. |
Lykouleon
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
330
|
Posted - 2011.11.16 05:32:00 -
[65] - Quote
You're doing something wrong. Very wrong.
Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER SO I CAN HIT THEM WITH MY SWORD
WIdot Director of Quality Control and Ironically Signing My Title to Posts To Make People ~mad~ |
Kuzzka
Perkone
Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2011.11.16 07:15:00 -
[66] - Quote
So nothing should be able to survive/avoid PVP junkies? I want also to remind you it's a TECH 3 ship, it does suppose to have some advantage, because when you kill it pilot loose not just the ship, but the sub skill. Also Tengu with Cloak subsystem does really loose a lot of DPS. |
fRoDdEr's
Kleinrock Heavy Industries
1
|
Posted - 2011.11.17 18:22:00 -
[67] - Quote
Kuzzka wrote:So nothing should be able to survive/avoid PVP junkies? I want also to remind you it's a TECH 3 ship, it does suppose to have some advantage, because when you kill it pilot loose not just the ship, but the sub skill. Also Tengu with Cloak subsystem does really loose a lot of DPS.
There is a difference between having an advantage, and being unkillable.
|
Gogela
Freeport Exploration
154
|
Posted - 2011.11.17 18:26:00 -
[68] - Quote
fRoDdEr's wrote:
There is a difference between having an advantage, and being unkillable.
QFT.
A decent T3 pilot in a nullified cloaky ship can't be caught.
A cloaky blockade runner cannot be caught in lowsec.
I hate win buttons. Give them an advantage, but give the predators a chance.
All GëíGêçGëí Ships | Many Odd GëíGêçGëí Items (+Drones) | <-- Links to showInfo in-game |
fRoDdEr's
Kleinrock Heavy Industries
1
|
Posted - 2011.11.17 18:31:00 -
[69] - Quote
Gogela wrote:fRoDdEr's wrote:
There is a difference between having an advantage, and being unkillable.
QFT. A decent T3 pilot in a nullified cloaky ship can't be caught. A cloaky blockade runner cannot be caught in lowsec. I hate win buttons. Give them an advantage, but give the predators a chance.
Blockade runners can be caught, maybe not in low-sec. But in null-sec its easy. Fo T3's it doesnt matter, invulnerability everywhere. |
Stan Smith
Remenent British Federation
21
|
Posted - 2011.11.17 19:44:00 -
[70] - Quote
or... you could devise a new tactic to stop these "overpowered" ships? maybe? its is possible... |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
205
|
Posted - 2011.11.17 20:48:00 -
[71] - Quote
Gogela wrote:fRoDdEr's wrote:
There is a difference between having an advantage, and being unkillable.
QFT. A decent T3 pilot in a nullified cloaky ship can't be caught. A cloaky blockade runner cannot be caught in lowsec. I hate win buttons. Give them an advantage, but give the predators a chance. EDIT:Uncatchable Tengu NullSec Opportunist FitHigh: 4x Salvager II (you never know what you'll find on a gate), CovOps Cloak Mid: 10MN MWD II, 10MN Afterburner II ( for dual propulsion ), Large Capacitor Battery II, Magnetic Scattering Amplifyer II, 3x Large Shield Extender II Low: 3x Warp Core Stab II Rig: Med Anti-Explosive Reinforcer II, Med Anti-EM Reinforcer II, Med Core Defence Field Extender II Subsystems: Emergent Locust Analyzer, Suplimental Screening, Cap Regen Matrix, Covert Reconfiguration, Interdiction Nullifier = Untouchable Over-glorified Hauler
Hey look how bad at EVE you are.
You need 4 ships in a camp to catch this, and gang links might not be a bad idea.
1 ship, a dram, daredevil, or inty is fine, they don't even ever have to lock the guy, their sole function is to decloak the tengu.
1 ship is a hic, he'll want hic 5 for range, script loaded for an infinite point.
2 ships with RSB's and scan res scripts loaded jacking the hics sensor strength up over 3k
If you don't believe that works theres about 3 trillion killboards you can look on to find dead nullified t3's, including mine.
You could also try using your imagination and not just throwing your toys across the room kicking and screaming that it can't be done. I bet you're fat IRL too. You know, because the weight just won't get off when you tell it, you actually have to try something to make it go away.
|
Gogela
Freeport Exploration
154
|
Posted - 2011.11.17 20:58:00 -
[72] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:
Hey look how bad at EVE you are.
You need 4 ships in a camp to catch this, and gang links might not be a bad idea.
1 ship, a dram, daredevil, or inty is fine, they don't even ever have to lock the guy, their sole function is to decloak the tengu.
1 ship is a hic, he'll want hic 5 for range, script loaded for an infinite point.
2 ships with RSB's and scan res scripts loaded jacking the hics sensor strength up over 3k
If you don't believe that works theres about 3 trillion killboards you can look on to find dead nullified t3's, including mine.
You could also try using your imagination and not just throwing your toys across the room kicking and screaming that it can't be done. I bet you're fat IRL too. You know, because the weight just won't get off when you tell it, you actually have to try something to make it go away.
Do you want a cookie? So you caught a moron. Sweet story bro. I've never been caught hauling in null using that fit. I've blown through huge camps. I guess everyone sucks but you, eh? Many have tried what you propose... and once in a blue moon I even get de-cloaked... but it's not enough... I'm already in warp. I am 5'10" and weigh 165. Not fat... I don't know why you hate fat people. Sounds like a personal issue. I'm not a therapist and I don't care about your personal problems, FYI. Throwing toys around the room? Screaming? Hmm... it's also interesting that you make that connection to passive aggressive posts and cynicism. ...again... not a therapist. Whine all you like. I'm in-fricking-vinceable. There's nothing you can do about it.
All GëíGêçGëí Ships | Many Odd GëíGêçGëí Items (+Drones) | <-- Links to showInfo in-game |
fRoDdEr's
Kleinrock Heavy Industries
1
|
Posted - 2011.11.17 21:00:00 -
[73] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Gogela wrote:fRoDdEr's wrote:
There is a difference between having an advantage, and being unkillable.
QFT. A decent T3 pilot in a nullified cloaky ship can't be caught. A cloaky blockade runner cannot be caught in lowsec. I hate win buttons. Give them an advantage, but give the predators a chance. EDIT:Uncatchable Tengu NullSec Opportunist FitHigh: 4x Salvager II (you never know what you'll find on a gate), CovOps Cloak Mid: 10MN MWD II, 10MN Afterburner II ( for dual propulsion ), Large Capacitor Battery II, Magnetic Scattering Amplifyer II, 3x Large Shield Extender II Low: 3x Warp Core Stab II Rig: Med Anti-Explosive Reinforcer II, Med Anti-EM Reinforcer II, Med Core Defence Field Extender II Subsystems: Emergent Locust Analyzer, Suplimental Screening, Cap Regen Matrix, Covert Reconfiguration, Interdiction Nullifier = Untouchable Over-glorified Hauler Hey look how bad at EVE you are. You need 4 ships in a camp to catch this, and gang links might not be a bad idea. 1 ship, a dram, daredevil, or inty is fine, they don't even ever have to lock the guy, their sole function is to decloak the tengu. 1 ship is a hic, he'll want hic 5 for range, script loaded for an infinite point. 2 ships with RSB's and scan res scripts loaded jacking the hics sensor strength up over 3k If you don't believe that works theres about 3 trillion killboards you can look on to find dead nullified t3's, including mine. You could also try using your imagination and not just throwing your toys across the room kicking and screaming that it can't be done. I bet you're fat IRL too. You know, because the weight just won't get off when you tell it, you actually have to try something to make it go away.
If the T3 is plated you might have a very slim chance of this working. Forget it with a shield loki or tengu. 4s and they're out, either they deckoal right ontop of you, or you'll never get to where they were, decloak them and lock it.
|
Takseen
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
16
|
Posted - 2011.11.17 21:03:00 -
[74] - Quote
Gogela wrote:
Uncatchable Tengu NullSec Opportunist Fit
High: 4x Salvager II (you never know what you'll find on a gate), CovOps Cloak
Mid: 10MN MWD II, 10MN Afterburner II ( for dual propulsion ), Large Capacitor Battery II, Magnetic Scattering Amplifyer II, 3x Large Shield Extender II
Low: 3x Warp Core Stab II
Rig: Med Anti-Explosive Reinforcer II, Med Anti-EM Reinforcer II, Med Core Defence Field Extender II
Subsystems: Emergent Locust Analyzer, Suplimental Screening, Cap Regen Matrix, Covert Reconfiguration, Interdiction Nullifier
= Untouchable Over-glorified Hauler
Spending half a billion for a "hauler" with less than 500m3 cargospace does indeed sound awfully imbalanced.
I just don't understand the logic behind the gatecamper thought process. Why are you allowed to make a gate 100% impassable, but they're not allowed have a fit that can (supposedly) 100% bypass it? |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration
154
|
Posted - 2011.11.17 21:20:00 -
[75] - Quote
Takseen wrote:
Spending half a billion for a "hauler" with less than 500m3 cargospace does indeed sound awfully imbalanced.
I just don't understand the logic behind the gatecamper thought process. Why are you allowed to make a gate 100% impassable, but they're not allowed have a fit that can (supposedly) 100% bypass it?
Well... did you see that angry PL guy up there crying? He came up w/ a fleet of ships specifically tasked / designed to take out my fit there. He still failed. Now think about the guys in that gang. They all wanted a peice of me, and their combined efforts were for naught. What about the 200 man fleet on the gate? Should I be able to get through it... a lone pilot in a lone ship? I think that's why gate campers are miffed. No gate camp is 100% impenetrable if all things are equal. Equal # of haulers and campers? Some of the haulers will get away. Maybe not all... but the 100% effective camp you are describing is negated by the fact that not everything caught in the camp will be destroyed. atm people have gotten very lazy overall using scouts. I almost never see them anymore. Haulers use Blockade runners almost elusively in low sec, and jump freighters in null. Logistics is effortless and without risk in eve. My Tengu fit is over the top yes... but it works. 100% of the time it works every time. In EvE, there should always be a way. The difficulty thwarting one tactic or another may be subject to debate... but there needs to be some way. That's the gripe.
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fRoDdEr's
Kleinrock Heavy Industries
1
|
Posted - 2011.11.19 13:47:00 -
[76] - Quote
It is also to note that with cans, its not dependent on skill. But pure luck. You can be the best gate camper on earth, but your chances of getting that Tengu is the same for a RSB'ed noob with a point in a frigate who has no diea whatsoever. |
Takseen
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
18
|
Posted - 2011.11.19 13:59:00 -
[77] - Quote
fRoDdEr's wrote:It is also to note that with cans, its not dependent on skill. But pure luck. You can be the best gate camper on earth, but your chances of getting that Tengu is the same for a RSB'ed noob with a point in a frigate who has no diea whatsoever.
How does the "best gate camper on earth" normally distinguish himself from the noob?
|
Jack bubu
GK inc.
Pandemic Legion
76
|
Posted - 2011.11.19 14:00:00 -
[78] - Quote
Gogela wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:
Hey look how bad at EVE you are.
You need 4 ships in a camp to catch this, and gang links might not be a bad idea.
1 ship, a dram, daredevil, or inty is fine, they don't even ever have to lock the guy, their sole function is to decloak the tengu.
1 ship is a hic, he'll want hic 5 for range, script loaded for an infinite point.
2 ships with RSB's and scan res scripts loaded jacking the hics sensor strength up over 3k
If you don't believe that works theres about 3 trillion killboards you can look on to find dead nullified t3's, including mine.
You could also try using your imagination and not just throwing your toys across the room kicking and screaming that it can't be done. I bet you're fat IRL too. You know, because the weight just won't get off when you tell it, you actually have to try something to make it go away.
Do you want a cookie? So you caught a moron. Sweet story bro. I've never been caught hauling in null using that fit. I've blown through huge camps. I guess everyone sucks but you, eh? Many have tried what you propose... and once in a blue moon I even get de-cloaked... but it's not enough... I'm already in warp. I am 5'10" and weigh 165. Not fat... I don't know why you hate fat people. Sounds like a personal issue. I'm not a therapist and I don't care about your personal problems, FYI. Throwing toys around the room? Screaming? Hmm... it's also interesting that you make that connection to passive aggressive posts and cynicism. ...again... not a therapist. Whine all you like. I'm in-fricking-vinceable. There's nothing you can do about it. fRoDdEr's wrote:Blockade runners can be caught, maybe not in low-sec. But in null-sec its easy. Fo T3's it doesnt matter, invulnerability everywhere. Yup. I agree. Bubbles make it easy in null..
You dont get it, with a sensor resolution above ~ 2500 you can lock anything before it cloaks after jumpin, with the infipoint you wont go anywhere either. |
fRoDdEr's
Kleinrock Heavy Industries
1
|
Posted - 2011.11.19 14:11:00 -
[79] - Quote
Jack bubu wrote:Gogela wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:
Hey look how bad at EVE you are.
You need 4 ships in a camp to catch this, and gang links might not be a bad idea.
1 ship, a dram, daredevil, or inty is fine, they don't even ever have to lock the guy, their sole function is to decloak the tengu.
1 ship is a hic, he'll want hic 5 for range, script loaded for an infinite point.
2 ships with RSB's and scan res scripts loaded jacking the hics sensor strength up over 3k
If you don't believe that works theres about 3 trillion killboards you can look on to find dead nullified t3's, including mine.
You could also try using your imagination and not just throwing your toys across the room kicking and screaming that it can't be done. I bet you're fat IRL too. You know, because the weight just won't get off when you tell it, you actually have to try something to make it go away.
Do you want a cookie? So you caught a moron. Sweet story bro. I've never been caught hauling in null using that fit. I've blown through huge camps. I guess everyone sucks but you, eh? Many have tried what you propose... and once in a blue moon I even get de-cloaked... but it's not enough... I'm already in warp. I am 5'10" and weigh 165. Not fat... I don't know why you hate fat people. Sounds like a personal issue. I'm not a therapist and I don't care about your personal problems, FYI. Throwing toys around the room? Screaming? Hmm... it's also interesting that you make that connection to passive aggressive posts and cynicism. ...again... not a therapist. Whine all you like. I'm in-fricking-vinceable. There's nothing you can do about it. fRoDdEr's wrote:Blockade runners can be caught, maybe not in low-sec. But in null-sec its easy. Fo T3's it doesnt matter, invulnerability everywhere. Yup. I agree. Bubbles make it easy in null.. You dont get it, with a sensor resolution above ~ 2500 you can lock anything before it cloaks after jumpin, with the infipoint you wont go anywhere either.
No you can't.
|
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed
RED.Legion
11
|
Posted - 2011.11.19 14:14:00 -
[80] - Quote
Jack bubu wrote:
You dont get it, with a sensor resolution above ~ 2500 you can lock anything before it cloaks after jumpin, with the infipoint you wont go anywhere either.
EVE Operates in discrete 1 second ticks. Getting your lock time down below 1second doesn't do you any good. If you are lucky enough to lock, your point will start 1 second later (a t3 likely will not have warped by then, but a proper CovOps will). If they send the command to cloak at the same time they send the one to decloak, they will recloak before you lock. That's why you have your inty pilot burning at them to decloak them, then you can grab them.
T3s are very hard to catch, but they can be caught. Nobody's perfect. |
SuperMarine
No.Mercy
Merciless.
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.19 14:16:00 -
[81] - Quote
Covops frigs mwd too fast out of my bubbles and warp away, fix this problem.
/thread |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed
RED.Legion
11
|
Posted - 2011.11.19 14:18:00 -
[82] - Quote
SuperMarine wrote:Covops frigs mwd too fast out of my bubbles and warp away, fix this problem.
/thread
How do you know? No way you can see them through those welding goggles. |
groentenman
Bendebeukers
Green Rhino
5
|
Posted - 2011.11.19 14:23:00 -
[83] - Quote
I think OP is mad because he can't fly/afford a T3 cruiser |
Generals4
Caldari State
356
|
Posted - 2011.11.19 14:25:00 -
[84] - Quote
Gogela wrote:fRoDdEr's wrote:
There is a difference between having an advantage, and being unkillable.
QFT. A decent T3 pilot in a nullified cloaky ship can't be caught. A cloaky blockade runner cannot be caught in lowsec. I hate win buttons. Give them an advantage, but give the predators a chance. EDIT:Uncatchable Tengu NullSec Opportunist FitHigh: 4x Salvager II (you never know what you'll find on a gate), CovOps Cloak Mid: 10MN MWD II, 10MN Afterburner II ( for dual propulsion ), Large Capacitor Battery II, Magnetic Scattering Amplifyer II, 3x Large Shield Extender II Low: 3x Warp Core Stab II Rig: Med Anti-Explosive Reinforcer II, Med Anti-EM Reinforcer II, Med Core Defence Field Extender II Subsystems: Emergent Locust Analyzer, Suplimental Screening, Cap Regen Matrix, Covert Reconfiguration, Interdiction Nullifier = Untouchable Over-glorified Hauler
WOW , a hauler that costs half a bill and can't carry jack **** compared to any industrial/freighter!
Guess what industrials have a T2 variant which is harder to catch but carries less. Considered how little this Tengu could carry i'd say it being practically untouchable is the least it could get.
The whole thing is that with this fit sure you can go through camps easily but seeing how anything else a T3 could do is nerfed to hell and it still costs half a bill i'd say it's a pretty fair deal.
-Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily. |
Sul Glass
Iron Crown
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.19 14:26:00 -
[85] - Quote
Hello, I'm the idiot who just started a thread asking for T3s for fit cov ops cynos, so I guess I know where I stand with this OPer.
My bigger questions are about things like:
Why do die hard PVPers make it so hard for people to get into 0.0 where thay can PVP to their hearts content? - Gatecamps are crap.
Why is High Sec where the HUGE, VAST majority of pilots are? - Most of 0.0 is just plain empty, and low sec not much better.
Surely journeying all over New Eden needs to be easier? Easier, so that more oppourtunites for combat/commerse exist.
TBH, it has always intriuged me as to why (it seems to me) that 90% of pilots are in High Sec all the time.
Ho hum.
Sul |
Grimpak
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
150
|
Posted - 2011.11.19 14:28:00 -
[86] - Quote
it's not impossible to catch a IN subbed T3. all you need is 3 good inty pilots with drones assigned.
why? IN sub has sucky agility, even with the bonus, and it also doesn't give any slot.
if people manage to catch agility-fit prowlers without the aid of bubbles, then you can definitely catch a cloaky IN ship.
[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote]
ain't that right |
Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
878
|
Posted - 2011.11.19 14:33:00 -
[87] - Quote
Cloaky nullified T3s are fine. They're not entirely invincible, far from it - they're the ultimate pipe runners, sure, but I wouldn't move an Erebus BPO unscouted in one. |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
171
|
Posted - 2011.11.19 15:42:00 -
[88] - Quote
This is a non-issue. Why? Because, you don't see fleets composed of these supposed insta-win fits because they're not anywhere near as powerful as some have indicated here. Are they nigh impossible to catch? Yeah, but so are most cov-ops. They have limited uses, limited dps and limited ehp.
I just eluded a gang of 13 in a t1 frig with cloak using bubbles and hic's to try to catch me. Interdictors, drones, dragnets, the whole sh-bang! I landed at their hic. They knew it. I effortlessly escaped at 30m/s. Go ask CCP to fix this so this will never happen again.
No my dear, you're lacking creative thinking. In docking games you don't sit outside waiting for someone to undock. You catch that bastard where he least expects it. It's called stalking your prey. But from the sounds of it, you just want to club something over the head and be done with it.
We want breast augmentations and sluttier clothing in the NeX! |
fRoDdEr's
Kleinrock Heavy Industries
4
|
Posted - 2011.11.19 16:38:00 -
[89] - Quote
Price is never a justification. I do not have anything against people avoiding camps and getting out alive through use of tactics, skill and knowledge. You don't need skill to fly a cloaky t3. All you need to do is fit 1-2 Nanos and hit cloak a split-second after you click warp.
Now what happens if you have the fear of being caught, because your ship is not overpowered? You can always crash the gate and get away on the other side easily, this is what most other cloaky ships do and takes alot of effort to counter. |
Generals4
Caldari State
356
|
Posted - 2011.11.19 16:54:00 -
[90] - Quote
fRoDdEr's wrote:Price is never a justification. I do not have anything against people avoiding camps and getting out alive through use of tactics, skill and knowledge. You don't need skill to fly a cloaky t3. All you need to do is fit 1-2 Nanos and hit cloak a split-second after you click warp.
Now what happens if you have the fear of being caught, because your ship is not overpowered? You can always crash the gate and get away on the other side easily, this is what most other cloaky ships do and takes alot of effort to counter.
Price is a justification. Better = more expensive. (mostly).
What's the point of flying a 500 mill cloaky ship if it isn't superior to the 20-30 mill variant? the cloaky-nullifier T3 sucks at everything but safe travel and costs a buttload. It seems to be the least that it at least excels at that traveling aspect.
But i know let's make faction frigates worse than their T1 variants. I mean why the hell should they be better, after all price doesn't justify anything, amiright?
-Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily. |
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