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Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
613
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Posted - 2014.05.02 10:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
So according to twitter feed, major changes coming to the Rorqual. However I have no idea what they are. Can anyone explain or give us the details?  |
The BlackPrince
Inner Visions
Of Sound Mind
15
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Posted - 2014.05.02 11:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
CCP didn't really give us anything specific on this subject. They mentioned that they were aware that the rorqual would need some changes because of the changes made in the summer expansion, but that's about it.
Oh and they mentioned something about making it so that we would want to warp it to a belt.
Currently building carriers and rorquals. Contact me for a cheap capital ship. |
Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
613
|
Posted - 2014.05.02 11:06:00 -
[3] - Quote
The BlackPrince wrote:
Oh and they mentioned something about making it so that we would want to warp it to a belt.
Ahahahahahaha.
Ahahahahaha.
Hahaha.
Haha.
What?
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Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
148
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Posted - 2014.05.02 14:10:00 -
[4] - Quote
Fozzie & Rise talked about the Orca & Rorqual briefly and in non-specific terms in the module & ship rebalancing talk. It was an informative talk on all the other stuff they mentioned as opposed to the DUST keynote I just watched which was very poor. Proposed changes to modules sounded interesting.
The changes to the Orca & Rorqual won't happen in the summer update so I guess it will happen in the winter one. Regarding the Rorqual they want it to be able to be used outside of the POS shield. It will still have the ore compression role and will have vastly increased EHP/resistances/something else(?) to enable it to survive in-belt. I don' t think anything more specific than that was said. |
Anogra
Strenus Custodes
The Volition Cult
19
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Posted - 2014.05.02 15:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
i really hope ccp understands its not the lack of ehp that is the reason u dont use rorqual in the belt. its coz its only "use" is boosting and compressing, both that can be done in a POS, and that to make use of said skills (boosting u can do without, but its worse then orca boosts) u have to be sieged, meaning ur a sitting duck for 5m
Anogra |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
7215
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Posted - 2014.05.02 17:13:00 -
[6] - Quote
the buffs that would make it worth putting a rorqual in a belt would need to be insane
Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division. |
350125GO
Transcendent Sedition
Dustm3n
42
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Posted - 2014.05.02 19:14:00 -
[7] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:the buffs that would make it worth putting a rorqual in a belt would need to be insane
They'd be more likely to change it's role than to give it buffs.
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
7215
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Posted - 2014.05.02 19:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
350125GO wrote:Weaselior wrote:the buffs that would make it worth putting a rorqual in a belt would need to be insane They'd be more likely to change it's role than to give it buffs.
tell me the role that involves putting a 2b capital ship in a belt that is not insane
Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division. |
Tenchi Sal
White Knights of Equestria
192
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Posted - 2014.05.02 20:11:00 -
[9] - Quote
why not reduce the build cost of a rorqual to the point where it can be more of disposable ship?
also with these ore changes, looks like the price of ore in high sec is going to drop. |
Velicitia
Emergent Avionics
2155
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Posted - 2014.05.02 20:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:350125GO wrote:Weaselior wrote:the buffs that would make it worth putting a rorqual in a belt would need to be insane They'd be more likely to change it's role than to give it buffs. tell me the role that involves putting a 2b capital ship in a belt that is not insane
Mining support.. Don't see that as any more insane than 1.5b+ on the front lines of a fight ...
One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia |
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
7220
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Posted - 2014.05.02 20:28:00 -
[11] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:Weaselior wrote:350125GO wrote:Weaselior wrote:the buffs that would make it worth putting a rorqual in a belt would need to be insane They'd be more likely to change it's role than to give it buffs. tell me the role that involves putting a 2b capital ship in a belt that is not insane Mining support.. Don't see that as any more insane than 1.5b+ on the front lines of a fight ...
thats its role right now
needless to see rorqs in belts are...well, less common than titans in belts were (until the tracking titan nerf)
Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division. |
Arronicus
Ravens' Nest
Outlaw Horizon.
929
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Posted - 2014.05.02 22:44:00 -
[12] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:350125GO wrote:Weaselior wrote:the buffs that would make it worth putting a rorqual in a belt would need to be insane They'd be more likely to change it's role than to give it buffs. tell me the role that involves putting a 2b capital ship in a belt that is not insane
When I did mining in 0.0 not too long ago, I used my rorqual for hauling, and I can assure you, it was worth quite a bit more than 2bil.
However, I'd never leave it just sitting there, boosting in belt or running tractor beams or any of the silliness CCP thinks they can convince people to do. They'd have to make some ridiculous changes if they want people to sit in belt in a rorqual, with the core deployed. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
3549
|
Posted - 2014.05.02 23:09:00 -
[13] - Quote
From http://www.twitch.tv/ccp/c/4170065
Ship and module balancing: CCP Fozzie & CCP Rise [Day 1]
Mining Barges & Exhumers @ 15:43
Orca & Rorqual @ 34:10
My best effort to transcribe...
CCP Fozzie wrote:The Rorqual on the other hand... We are very aware of how dire need of help it is. We're at the moment in the Summer release gonna be taking... well its gonna keep its compression feature, but that's now gonna be shared with a starbase structure, so that's no more unique to it.
Its always a ship that has kind of languished as its got the bonuses for tractor beams, but then you never put it in a belt, because that would be silly.
Its got the gang link bonuses, but it kind of also needs to be inside a force field, which is why we gave the mining links the exception when we removed all gang links from force fields.
So the goal here will be to make a ship that is the kind of thing you want to put into a belt, with extremely strong defensive bonuses, and the ability to not only protect itself but its friends, and the ability to provide also a strong benefit to your mining fleet. Get these things out where they're in a bit of some danger, but also where that danger is manageable, where it is actually sane to put them into that danger.
So more details of what we're thinking of for that will be coming in the future, we're still kind of at an earlier stage with that. That's not gonna be coming out in the Summer release, but it's one of the things we are thinking very heavily about, and plan on getting to basically next. |
afkboss
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
4
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Posted - 2014.05.03 03:47:00 -
[14] - Quote
The problem is that the amount of damage/tank that would be needed to be added to make it viable in a belt would make it imbalanced as a pvp ship. |
Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
613
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Posted - 2014.05.03 11:29:00 -
[15] - Quote
afkboss wrote:The problem is that the amount of damage/tank that would be needed to be added to make it viable in a belt would make it imbalanced as a pvp ship.
What amount of tank would it need to be able to possibly survive the dropping of N+1 blackops BS on top of it? I'm not sure. So if not tank then GTFO ability. I suppose allowing it to warp cloaked would work. Evildoers enter nearby systems, cloak up and warp to safe.
There isn't a warpy-cloaky capital in game at the moment is there? Also means it has to give its bonus without being in siege, like an Orca does though. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
3553
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Posted - 2014.05.04 11:23:00 -
[16] - Quote
Victoria Sin wrote:afkboss wrote:The problem is that the amount of damage/tank that would be needed to be added to make it viable in a belt would make it imbalanced as a pvp ship. What amount of tank would it need to be able to possibly survive the dropping of N+1 blackops BS on top of it? I'm not sure. So if not tank then GTFO ability. I suppose allowing it to warp cloaked would work. Evildoers enter nearby systems, cloak up and warp to safe. There isn't a warpy-cloaky capital in game at the moment is there? Also means it has to give its bonus without being in siege, like an Orca does though.
Can't move when the Industrial Core is active.
I'm kind of wondering if they are thinking of using one of my past suggestions: massive resist bonuses when deployed, sort of like a Marauder. I later suggested hull rather than shield, as to avoid PvP benefits, and the new structure rigs for freighters would also help with that.
I also suggested Orca-class mining link bonuses when the Industrial Core is inactive, and a bunch of other things:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4374920#post4374920
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Kasife Vynneve
Capital Storm.
Black Flag Society
38
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Posted - 2014.05.04 12:56:00 -
[17] - Quote
Maybe when the core is running its has an effect like s POS force field for nearby industrials (or even exclusive to ORE vessels)
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Hulk Miner
White Horse Incorporated
19
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Posted - 2014.05.04 16:13:00 -
[18] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:the buffs that would make it worth putting a rorqual in a belt would need to be insane
Lest we forget the Rorqual kill wh0re. I guess beefing up the Roq would make it a great if not expensive surprise sex killer.
Killer Rorqual
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
3165
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Posted - 2014.05.04 16:30:00 -
[19] - Quote
They did mention one change:
New skin 
The mystery code owners are getting the ORE dev skin for it.
Woo! CSM 9!
http://fuzzwork.enterprises/
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
613
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 16:41:00 -
[20] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:They did mention one change: New skin The mystery code owners are getting the ORE dev skin for it.
Well that's something I suppose  . |
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
3562
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Posted - 2014.05.04 18:27:00 -
[21] - Quote
Kasife Vynneve wrote:Maybe when the core is running its has an effect like s POS force field for nearby industrials (or even exclusive to ORE vessels)
Not the first time that has been suggested.
But CCP hates force fields. They introduce complex code for interaction, basically exceptions to the rules. |
cyniska
Corporate Scum
Cult of War
1
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Posted - 2014.05.06 00:18:00 -
[22] - Quote
Maybe a kind of bubble around it that makes Ore ships immune to ewar, that way you could warp all the barges away. Drawback is that the rorq cant move or the rorq is not immune.
In big fleets of 20+ exhumers it might be worth it. 2 bil isk rorq Gëê 10 hulks. But it feels like the hulks tank might be to weak to survive anyway. 
Bubble that blocks cynos?
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xPredat0rz
Grey Templars
Fidelas Constans
97
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Posted - 2014.05.06 01:58:00 -
[23] - Quote
Or maybe they want to make a belt striper varient that once sieged eats rocks. Rorqual is stuck in the belt for 5 minutes for insane ore striping but at risk to **** killing it. |
Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
2818
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Posted - 2014.05.06 02:52:00 -
[24] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:350125GO wrote:Weaselior wrote:the buffs that would make it worth putting a rorqual in a belt would need to be insane They'd be more likely to change it's role than to give it buffs. tell me the role that involves putting a 2b capital ship in a belt that is not insane
People put 0.6b and 1.3b ships in belts semi-regularly (Orca, Charon), so putting a 2.3b Rorqual in a belt wouldn't be out of the question if it gave sufficient advantages to the fleet it was in.
If it were part Veldenaught (with mining bonuses), past ore compresser, part mining foreman link provider and part hauler (with a cargo bay for compressed ore only), then I could see people willingly fielding it sieged in a belt. Especially if you have the capacity to counter-escalate if you are dropped.
Set the universe on fire - then sell the survivors ash.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content.
If you want to mine in highsec, read www.minerbumping.com. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1328
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Posted - 2014.05.06 03:07:00 -
[25] - Quote
cyniska wrote:
Bubble that blocks cynos?
Cyno blocker module that prevents remote reps (Like a HIC bubble) as well as no industrial core any more would be an interesting combination. Could then warp it out at any time, you know your fleet won't get hot dropped on grid, but if you don't pay attention you can still be tackled and a cyno lit off grid or 200km away on grid and engaged. |
Milla Goodpussy
Federal Navy Academy
10
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Posted - 2014.05.06 06:35:00 -
[26] - Quote
im sorry,
I really have a hard time understanding why on earth are dev's so head strong at putting this capital ship at risk, if they hate pos force fields so much why on earth have them? ccp are you just trying your best to feed your friends kills?
the rorqual should be the king of industry yet they're constantly thinking of ways of gimping it.. you know something fozzie.. give it fighter drone support since you're head strong about it being involved in pvp while killing rocks.. or how about you also provide with anti-ewar support to entire mining ops fleets, anti-cloak in the system ( oh yeah you just love your afk cloaky friends yet wont do anything about that one how odd).. and while you're at it give the rorqual the power to fight and take out up to dreadnaught level cannons? how about that one fozz-man..
you want it in belts so much as for the tractor beam? seriously how often is the powerful tractor beam used? I don't use it at all.. its not a main requirement in my ops.. I sure as hell will not take it into a belt while you allow a small size ship to drop +25 or more ships on me.. but again you obviously don't know about fairness and level playing ground.
this is all a bad idea, no wonder folks are getting rid of their assets and prepping to leave.
honestly ccp get with the program and make the rorqual the most powerful beast and worthy capital ship one would want to even invest in and use and place in belts.. but this constant direction of .. everything should be at risk. all the while allowing other major broken ships get cheap kills is rather disturbing. just my and only my opinion not like it matters.
rorqual - major bonus to EHP major! Major!
- huge increase to drone bay allowing fighters - +20 yeah I said it so what
- major bonus to killing rocks and supporting all mining ships in the op +200% to all defenses in fleets.. make killers actually afraid of F!'ing with a miner ( doubt this though since folks love attacking things that cant fight back)
- Anti-ewar, Cloaking (system-wide) features
- increase navigation systems -- so umm how do you plan to allow this fat beast to warp away from danger?? see guys why are you even thinking about this.
I just don't get it ccp, you're killing this ship even more.. oh by the way... why are you even thinking about the rorq in the belt.. what the hell about the orca?? whats it's purpose then?? good lord all mighty wtf?? |
Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
613
|
Posted - 2014.05.06 10:49:00 -
[27] - Quote
Milla Goodpussy wrote:Stuff
Don't see how that's going to work. If I can't get safe in the time it takes a red to warp from a gate in an adjacent system to me, which in general I can't with a Rorqual, then I'm not going to put it into belt.
I'm definitely not going to siege it either. I have no idea why it's got a tractor bonus. It's ore hold is pretty small all else considered. It's fleet hanger is pathetic. I can't empty a single full Mackinaw into it. It's good for giving nice mining bonuses and ore compression. That's all really.
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LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
966
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Posted - 2014.05.06 19:30:00 -
[28] - Quote
Arronicus wrote:Weaselior wrote:350125GO wrote:Weaselior wrote:the buffs that would make it worth putting a rorqual in a belt would need to be insane They'd be more likely to change it's role than to give it buffs. tell me the role that involves putting a 2b capital ship in a belt that is not insane When I did mining in 0.0 not too long ago, I used my rorqual for hauling, and I can assure you, it was worth quite a bit more than 2bil. However, I'd never leave it just sitting there, boosting in belt or running tractor beams or any of the silliness CCP thinks they can convince people to do. They'd have to make some ridiculous changes if they want people to sit in belt in a rorqual, with the core deployed.
Yep. Warp it in, scoop 400m3 of ore, warp it straight back out.
NO ONE goes into siege mode in belt (well, I knew a guy... but we were in a dead end system 2 jumps from one of the main cap ship staging systems and there were always a dozen super carriers "on call" should things get ugly. AND, that is when belts had to be probed (which of course, takes WAY under 5 mins, so it wasn't much safety to the rorq)
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LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
967
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Posted - 2014.05.06 19:43:00 -
[29] - Quote
Its role as an ore hauler was even gimped by the ability of freighters to drop enormous cans, then scoop them back up.
The freighter costs half as much and can move twice the ore.
I just don't know what CCP could do to make me siege my rorq in a rock cluster. We industrialists are notoriously risk averse.
NOTHING would bring the cloaky campers around faster than a rorq getting caught in a belt, and since there is NO DEFENSE to cloaky campers, hoping beyond hope that they stay away, is the #1 priority of null sec miners.
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Milla Goodpussy
Federal Navy Academy
11
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Posted - 2014.05.06 19:49:00 -
[30] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Its role as an ore hauler was even gimped by the ability of freighters to drop enormous cans, then scoop them back up.
The freighter costs half as much and can move twice the ore.
I just don't know what CCP could do to make me siege my rorq in a rock cluster. We industrialists are notoriously risk averse.
NOTHING would bring the cloaky campers around faster than a rorq getting caught in a belt, and since there is NO DEFENSE to cloaky campers, hoping beyond hope that they stay away, is the #1 priority of null sec miners.
THIS! THIS! THIS!
yet for a very strange odd reason ccp avoids the cloaky problem cause it may hurt their friends feelings, so this entire idea of feeding them kills pretty much sums up the dev's true intention.. play eve, purchase expensive ships, we'll flip the script on you and help the killers pop the ship.. then pretend to call it fun.. then deny the mechanics are broken cause in the real world this and that hogwash comparison.
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