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Atma Darkwolf
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Posted - 2006.05.24 11:52:00 -
[1]
I am just wondering why there are so few Material efficency labs avalible.. found plenty of time and copy ones, butthe few ME labs are full, and most are running for 30+ days.
Just got into the whole R&D thing so am quite new to this section of the game, but feels sort of strange that the most important thing u can reserch on a BPO is so hard to attain.
Was this a mistake on the dev's part?
Moved from General Discussion. - Ivan K
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AceOfSpace
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Posted - 2006.05.24 12:38:00 -
[2]
Most likely it's a desperate attempt to force more players into lowsec space 
-where there's an ace, there's a way- |
James Lyrus
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Posted - 2006.05.24 12:41:00 -
[3]
Buy small tower + fuel.
Buy 3x lab array.
Voila, 9x lab slots do to anything you want with.
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We are recruiting |
werwerweqrweqrweqrwqerew
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Posted - 2006.05.24 13:09:00 -
[4]
but I doubt that buying this, and paying it's upkeep is possible with a small corp(5 members) who have in total (corp funds, and all ou wallets) maybe 200mil max.
Meh :/ How much would a small POS + upkeep cost anyways?
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Atma Darkwolf
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Posted - 2006.05.24 13:10:00 -
[5]
oops..above was me with a deleted char.. lol
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disorderlynightcreature
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Posted - 2006.05.24 13:29:00 -
[6]
you can run a small pos at full pg/cpu for 15mil per week maximum but i have found most my setups run at around 12mil per week and its easy enough to maintain solo
hope that helps
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Freada
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Posted - 2006.05.24 19:45:00 -
[7]
Material efficiency is what people do the most of. When they made the lab changes in the RMR patch they reduced the number of lab slots that could do ME to a fraction of what they were before.
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Blind Man
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Posted - 2006.05.24 20:08:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: AceOfSpace
Most likely it's a desperate attempt to force more players into lowsec space
hardly, people just move thier blueprints into low sec and remotely put them in.
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ReaperOfSly
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Posted - 2006.05.24 20:31:00 -
[9]
Originally by: AceOfSpace
Most likely it's a desperate attempt to force more players into lowsec space
Lol you think low sec is any better? 
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Saldun Zexu
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Posted - 2006.05.25 04:47:00 -
[10]
in lowsec full also...
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Jin Weifan
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Posted - 2006.05.25 08:03:00 -
[11]
I checked 12 regions tonight, every single lab, every single ME slot is occupied. There are some slots available in 5 days or less, nearly all of those in low sec.
Why they can't add more, no one knows...
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Crise
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Posted - 2006.05.25 11:13:00 -
[12]
If you use a POS to do ME research and your POS gets thrown into reinforced can you pull out the BPO? Can you pull it out early before it goes into reinforced?
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Miranda Duvall
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Posted - 2006.05.25 11:24:00 -
[13]
as I understand it, you can leave the BPO in a corp hangar in a station in the same system the POS is in, and then you can research it in the POS. Copies come out in the POS tho...
POS Labs also speeds up research.
If all this is true, plz say so, because i'm planning on doing this too...
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Matthew
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Posted - 2006.05.25 11:56:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Atma Darkwolf
Just got into the whole R&D thing so am quite new to this section of the game, but feels sort of strange that the most important thing u can reserch on a BPO is so hard to attain.
Well, if it's the most important thing to research, it stands to reason that more people would want to that than anything else, hence it is going to be a more crowded segment in terms of facilities. It's also the most important because it gives you the most benefit, so as with other areas of the game, it makes sense that the thing that gives the most benefit has more difficulties to overcome than the other areas.
Originally by: Atma Darkwolf
Was this a mistake on the dev's part?
I'm not sure it's intended to be quite as bad as it is, but NPC-provided facilities are not intended to provide for all the demand anyone could ever want, especially now that player-owned facilities are available. Competition for facilities is an intended part of the system. That's the problem with just increasing the number of slots. Adding more slots would reduce the queues, which would cause more people to decide it's worth researching, pushing the queues back up. To really improve the situation, you'd have to increase them to the point where they couldn't possibly all be used. At which point the whole facilities system becomes a non-issue, and the POS-based facilities get relegated to a very niche role.
Originally by: Freada
Material efficiency is what people do the most of. When they made the lab changes in the RMR patch they reduced the number of lab slots that could do ME to a fraction of what they were before.
However the previous quantity of lab slots also had to compete with people doing PE and copying, so it's not as clear-cut a reduction as you make out. Of course, only the Devs know what proportions of activities the pre-RMR labs were being used for, but they would have checked that before deciding on the split applied.
There's also the fact that the RMR system allows much more efficient use of the slots available. By removing the old renting system, every slot is now guaranteed to be occupied 24/7, and not to be occupied by the old ME10000000 slot-sitting jobs. So the 20 slots per station we have now will be getting through a lot more real work than the old slots were.
The only bit of the RMR system I'm not so keen on is how the rents on the slots have stopped changing to reflect demand. A cheap slot with a long queue generates more pent-up demand than an expensive slot. It encourages research that shouldn't really be economically viable, as queue length as a demand control is a test of patience, not one of economics. If they re-introduced price movements to heavily-demanded slots (maybe count "crowded" as every slot having a queue length over X days), then the excess demand would be culled through economic measures, rather than through impatience. It would also help close the gap in the slot market between the cost of an NPC facility, and a POS array.
One thing that should help the situation, and move the facilities market far more into the player-controlled domain, is the introduction of the Contracts system in Kali. Right now there isn't really a way to reliably create a public-access POS-based lab. With the contracts system, it will be a lot easier for BP owners to contract with POS owners to get their BP's researched.
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There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines. |
AceOfSpace
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Posted - 2006.05.25 17:44:00 -
[15]
Originally by: ReaperOfSly
Originally by: AceOfSpace
Most likely it's a desperate attempt to force more players into lowsec space
Lol you think low sec is any better?
What I meant was that people are being forced to build a POS for their research, and unless they have very high corp<->faction standings they will have to build it in lowsec space. Should have elaborated at the time 
-where there's an ace, there's a way- |
Lygos
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Posted - 2006.05.25 18:27:00 -
[16]
Real estate is making a comeback. Just think how many lab slots you can offer for rent at a Large Caldari Outpost.
They take alot of cpu because it's meant to encourage specialization.
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Yujitarr
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Posted - 2006.05.29 09:09:00 -
[17]
I think the current situation is ridiculous. ItÆs worse than pre-Shiva/RMR. POS's were supposed to fix the lab slot problem and for awhile they did, but now it is impossible to get lab slot. You can bet that over 80% of the slots are taken up by people æsquattingÆ lab slots by researching some crappy bpo to ME 10000.
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James Lyrus
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Posted - 2006.05.29 09:18:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Miranda Duvall
as I understand it, you can leave the BPO in a corp hangar in a station in the same system the POS is in, and then you can research it in the POS. Copies come out in the POS tho...
POS Labs also speeds up research.
If all this is true, plz say so, because i'm planning on doing this too...
This is correct. And you can set up POS labs to 'public access' for ME/PE research. (Technically you can for copies too, but I have a feeling that the copies are delivered in the POS)
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We are recruiting |
Ashraaf
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Posted - 2006.05.29 12:59:00 -
[19]
Originally by: James Lyrus
Originally by: Miranda Duvall
as I understand it, you can leave the BPO in a corp hangar in a station in the same system the POS is in, and then you can research it in the POS. Copies come out in the POS tho...
POS Labs also speeds up research.
If all this is true, plz say so, because i'm planning on doing this too...
This is correct. And you can set up POS labs to 'public access' for ME/PE research. (Technically you can for copies too, but I have a feeling that the copies are delivered in the POS)
You could not rent or limit access to those slots if people are not in your alliance
It will be really an improvment to POS if people could use their Player Ownable station for what they want and don't have to be part of an alliance to use it
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Almin Nevarin
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Posted - 2006.05.30 03:56:00 -
[20]
So, for a total noob to this, can someone expain briefly what I would need in order to set up a POS for research purposes - this would be in lo-sec empire
I gather it is a tower, and a lab module. Obviously I'd need some defences. Any other hints or tips, or can someone point me in the right direction for information?
Cheers
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Ashraaf
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Posted - 2006.05.30 07:36:00 -
[21]
you could have high sec pos structure but need high faction standing to do this
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el commandante
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Posted - 2006.05.30 07:47:00 -
[22]
Edited by: el commandante on 30/05/2006 07:49:42
Originally by: Almin Nevarin
Edited by: Almin Nevarin on 30/05/2006 04:12:13
So, for a total noob to this, can someone expain briefly what I would need in order to set up a POS for research purposes - this would be in lo-sec empire
I gather it is a tower, and a lab module. Obviously I'd need some defences. Any other hints or tips?
Cheers
nope your fine with that.
btw: i am happy, that there are not more material research slots. you risk something you gain something. you risk nothing, you should gain nothing. you can earn to much in safe empire already and a small pos with a lab is low sec can be done by everyone.
ppl that dont want to shall queue. reduce the slots in empire!
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if you own something that you cant leave behind in 5 min it owns you. i was owned once too. |
James Lyrus
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Posted - 2006.05.30 08:54:00 -
[23]
Originally by: el commandante
Edited by: el commandante on 30/05/2006 07:49:42
Originally by: Almin Nevarin
Edited by: Almin Nevarin on 30/05/2006 04:12:13
So, for a total noob to this, can someone expain briefly what I would need in order to set up a POS for research purposes - this would be in lo-sec empire
I gather it is a tower, and a lab module. Obviously I'd need some defences. Any other hints or tips?
Cheers
nope your fine with that.
btw: i am happy, that there are not more material research slots. you risk something you gain something. you risk nothing, you should gain nothing. you can earn to much in safe empire already and a small pos with a lab is low sec can be done by everyone.
ppl that dont want to shall queue. reduce the slots in empire!
What he said. A small tower can't run many defenses anyway, and it's mostly not worth the effort of shooting down. If you cover it with guns, it becomes much harder to shutdown again too.
You can fit 3 lab arrays on one tower. Anyone attacking probably won't find it worth the effort, simply because you lose a bit, they waste a lot of time, and gain nothing.
That's about it. Might want to scan the moon first, just to make sure you're not about to sit on something snacky :).
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We are recruiting |
Ashraaf
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Posted - 2006.05.30 09:27:00 -
[24]
Originally by: el commandante
Edited by: el commandante on 30/05/2006 07:49:42
Originally by: Almin Nevarin
Edited by: Almin Nevarin on 30/05/2006 04:12:13
So, for a total noob to this, can someone expain briefly what I would need in order to set up a POS for research purposes - this would be in lo-sec empire
I gather it is a tower, and a lab module. Obviously I'd need some defences. Any other hints or tips?
Cheers
nope your fine with that.
btw: i am happy, that there are not more material research slots. you risk something you gain something. you risk nothing, you should gain nothing. you can earn to much in safe empire already and a small pos with a lab is low sec can be done by everyone.
ppl that dont want to shall queue. reduce the slots in empire!
No your totally false
you can have POS in high sec
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suq
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Posted - 2006.05.30 16:40:00 -
[25]
Originally by: James Lyrus
Buy small tower + fuel.
Buy 3x lab array.
Voila, 9x lab slots do to anything you want with.
Ya, so by your suggestion a newer player has to shell out 100mill for a tower and 3*90mill isk for the lab arrays plus the 10mill a week in fuel just to begin his R&D? Not a very good suggestion.
I agree with some of the other posters though that you should try to seek out a more dangerous low sec area to do research.
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Vigilant
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Posted - 2006.05.30 17:01:00 -
[26]
Most low sec. labs are full in EMPIRE now..... I just checked 6 Regions give or take... Best I saw, was 3 day wait (yeah I know not bad, with current labs)..... 0.2 Security....6 jumps deep thru all low sec. to get to... Personally, I don't like running them odds with a 1 to 2 Bill BPO in my cargo bay.
Any older player will remember the days of actually buying labs from people for lots of ISK....cause none were available anywhere.... Now, its just the Material Research Labs for the most part that hosed.....(no I am not Canadian, just like the word )
Basically, to be honest.... We just need more of the labs that are in use all the time... CCP should know which ones that are...
POS Labs work for those how have ISK and no enemies :)
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Ebon Drake
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Posted - 2006.05.31 05:12:00 -
[27]
Tonight, I tried:
Solitude
Aridia
Khanid
Kor-Azor
Genesis
Kador
Tash-Murkon
Domain
Not a single ME research slot available...  |
franny
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Posted - 2006.05.31 12:52:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Ebon Drake
Tonight, I tried:
Solitude
Not a single ME research slot available...
as of this moment, in Solitude
Vevelonel = 1
Vecodie = 1
Stoure = 2
Gereique = 1
Copying fares slightly better
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TCC Diplomatic core + combat pilot
talk or shoot, makes no difference to me :) |
Ebon Drake
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Posted - 2006.05.31 22:11:00 -
[29]
They must have come open in the interim, since Sol is where I started. The good thing is, that's where my BPO's are, so now there are only 2 MR slots left in Sol... |
esquimo leviticus
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Posted - 2006.06.01 09:14:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Vigilant
Most low sec. labs are full in EMPIRE now..... I just checked 6 Regions give or take... Best I saw, was 3 day wait (yeah I know not bad, with current labs)..... 0.2 Security....6 jumps deep thru all low sec. to get to... Personally, I don't like running them odds with a 1 to 2 Bill BPO in my cargo bay.
Hell i remember those days.
Originally by: Vigilant
Any older player will remember the days of actually buying labs from people for lots of ISK....cause none were available anywhere.... Now, its just the Material Research Labs for the most part that hosed.....(no I am not Canadian, just like the word )
Newer players could join a corp that owns a POS, i suppose this gives any Corp who has saved to get a POS a more lucrative incentive to join them.
Originally by: Vigilant
Basically, to be honest.... We just need more of the labs that are in use all the time... CCP should know which ones that are...
If CCP did that they would become full, There is always the POs Method as mentioned, it's expensive but once you have it running it almost pays for itself, even with one lab, esp if you sell the BPC's churned out every week.
Originally by: Vigilant
POS Labs work for those how have ISK and no enemies :)
You can fit guns to a lab and with the right fuel make it strong enough to stand an attack for a very long time, it is a lot of isk to save but like anything in the game worthwhile if you are willing to put the effort in, POs is not just for big corps, I run my own POS single handed just to demonstrate it is possible.
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