Change is terrible and pretending like the API data is not accessible to everyone because there are people who apparently don't have access to free out of game tools to address the poor design of in game tools is a terrible justification.

I do wonder why it took CCP 5 years to come to the conclusion that this is not intended design but I have to agree with the change. WH space is not nearly mysterious enough and the NPC kill API never made much sense to me.

Aside from the information in question here, the absolute co-ordinates for celestials and systems, which allow third party applications to calculate jump ranges of capitals isn't available in client but is available in the API. Guess you'll be taking out that information the same day you remove the NPC kill information right?

EVE is a game that is all about punishing the lazy and uninformed player, why are you proposing to change this here?

Yeah but it's not part of the ingame client and that's really the issue here, is it not?

Well, if we are going for an appeal to mystery and (implicitly) lore, then the SDE has no place in the game either.

If the change is purely because this information is not accessible ingame, then make it accessible ingame. For example, I could image that you hit F10 in a wormhole and that you get these stats, but only if you're in the actual system itself.

Better make this so in K-Space as well... that information is not publicly available in client either you know...

If you go through with it of course...

Like local amirite?

Of course you would say so given that this is the most free form of effortless Intel available anywhere in game. One that your alliance and coalition abuses to no end to avoid the associated risks attached to the alleged rewards of 00 anomalies.

So in reply to a comment about making Intel gathering'active and involved' it is perfectly germane.

Confirming that intel gathering by putting a bot with local open in a Twitch feed is more involved than looking at Dotlan.

Since you've never actually done a logoff trap, let me assure you that it takes a lot of rolling to find an active farming wormhole. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Do you know how many are involved though? No.
Do you know they will run sites at that exact time? No.

The NPC kills are a great way of showing some potential farmers but you still need to do alot of background work and scouting to make a successful log off trap or gank. As the guys from Quantum have said and linked to in previous posts, its very easy to defend against log off traps, farmers just don't bother because:
A. Stupids
B. Farming is ridiculously safe
C. Isk efficiency

"Groups only looking for PvE" should stay in hisec and avoid dangerous wormhole space that contains PVP

I think that book you missed was "How to read (for dummies)".

My "personal isk faucet" is in no way under threat. As I said, most large groups will barely notice any differences.

The rest of your post is just a bunch of words that say nothing interesting. OFC one cannot say that a specific change will have exact effects, but we can, and will, discuss if a given change helps or hurts certain playstyles. In this case, it is quite clearly all about folks that would like less risk to their PVE in w-space. I think in general, PVE in C5/C6 w-space is already less risky than it should be, and this change reduces that risk further.

If the SDE is there to provide all static data, why isn't moon mineral distribution part of it?

Which is exactly why I, and others, literally laugh out loud when the comment is "...we (upper echelon of GSF leadership) are "in it" for the betterment of the game itself..."

Because everyone knows the mantra "our enjoyment is to ruin others' enjoyment"

Literally

L.
O.
L.

I seriousily don't get this raving about 'instant perfect intel'. You know what NPC shows us? Activity. Yep thats it, theres no magic button which allows us to see what ships are in system, where the POS's are and stront levels etc. It helps us Wormholers effectively analyze a chain and think, don't forget we have already scanned the system in detail.

Please point to me where you don't even have to go into the system? Also how is that good intel? All it tells you is that the system is active, you don't know anything else other than that. And even then it can be wrong.

Perhaps you should try and not be insulting in a discussion thread. It's no secret that this is, and has been the MO for SA/GSF since it's inception. Name calling doesn't change that pretty well documented fact.

If you've not actually been in that system (i.e. scouting it out) that info quite literally IS useless because you have no way of knowing that you'll hit that system.

The ability to farm systems undisturbed with no API to clue anyone in that the hole they just rolled into is one of your bearing systems and thus they won't leave a scout in system to keep an eye on it and gank you.

It's not really a "hidden" agenda though so I'm not sure it counts.

Goons literally the high sec pubbies demanding null sec changes to make it more accessible to them ITT

Yeah I hear you guys are just swimming in content and activity where it actually matters

So all you nullsec guys that came into this thread after it was cross posted on reddit would be totally ok if we didn't enter local chat after we jump into it via a WH?

Because if we really want WH space to go to the true lore of it and be "Unknown" we shouldn't be reported into local chat until we technically use a stargate. It is the only acceptable trade off i can come up with that would replace the CONTENT this change will remove from WH space.

A: Goons get burned out of WH. A couple weeks later - fanfest. A couple days later - this change.

So if your argument to remove this feature from wh space then you must be going to remove it from null sec too as the same argument applies here too

The next problem is the follow on effect, more farming will properly lead to nano's dropping in price. This will then hit the smaller groups in c1 to c4 space hard making there income less (which to me is already to low anyway).

I must be missing something to. Please, tell us, how to get this intel through different mechanics?

Yep, WE cant know how many capitals they have logged in the system waiting for us and if we were spotted by the cloaked scout so they can just avoid farming or counter-drop us. So bears have full advantage of unknown.

There can be intensive farming, but zero kills for months and zero pods. (and will be since it hard to die to WH npc or rolling gankers if you have head on the shoulders)

Active poses are in any WH, they means nothing. There can be zero npc activity in months.

Pos owner corporation means nothing - there can be too much people in corporation to monitor with watchlist, pos can be (and by smart farmers is) used by the people from another corporations. Plus if your kill/s did not get to kb after corporation change - you not listed in eve-who list.

No pos at all - means nothing - farmers use carrier/orca as a mobile base.

"Untouched" anomalies - means nothing - they can be farmed this way too.

No people in system - means nothing, most systems are active 1-2 hours once a week.

They're already worth less than HS incursions. Lol. It's atrociously bad, really.

Thanks for validating my statement with more ill informed one liners, our only hope is that CCP have read the well detailed responses of ACTUAL WH dwellers in this thread among the sea of garbage posted by goons that are mad they have no relevance here.

Maybe removing the npc kills and delaying sigs from appearing for 5 mins would balance it all out. ;)

I unlike other crazy **** is not in this thread to 30 pages - from goons and WH farmers.
To Calsys - shove your pain deeper