Incidentally, they are thinking about doing just this; to make new wormhole signatures delay their appearance on scanners while they are new. There were some dev posts about it, but I can't be arsed to dig them up.

Yes but let's make life harder for everyone instead of just dumbing it down to oblivious sheeps.

This is data that is available via the API but not in the client in any way.

That is the core reason for this change, there are some other smaller ones but that is the big one. We are of course open to discussing how this information should be available in the client and how we reconcile that available knowledge with the goal that wormhole space should be mysterious and unknown. If this brought into the client we would of course be willing to bring it back to the API as well.

How many examples of data being available in the API exist and why aren't you fixing all of them at the same time?



You should not remove something from the API without first deciding if it will be available in the client in the future. Decided that first, and then decide how to handle the API. Not before.

Also, you have a strange way of iterating on things if all you are going to do is constantly remove features WH people use all the time.

Ah, yes, this argument again -- all changes must be delayed until every single niggling discrepancy even tangentially related to the proposed change are also handled.

How many times must we see this demonstrably incorrect thinking before it gets relegated to the garbage can where it belongs?

Change is terrible and pretending like the API data is not accessible to everyone because there are people who apparently don't have access to free out of game tools to address the poor design of in game tools is a terrible justification.

I'm not saying it should be delayed until all descrepencies are handled. I'm saying it should be delayed until game design makes their choice.

What I am saying is that since they are now enforcing a rule that wasn't previously that it should be enforced EVENLY and research should be undertaken to ensure that is the case.

I'm not saying it should be delayed until all descrepencies are handled. I'm saying it should be delayed until game design makes their choice.

What I am saying is that since they are now enforcing a rule that wasn't previously that it should be enforced EVENLY and research should be undertaken to ensure that is the case.

I do wonder why it took CCP 5 years to come to the conclusion that this is not intended design but I have to agree with the change. WH space is not nearly mysterious enough and the NPC kill API never made much sense to me.

This change promotes risk in wormhole space by removing the ability for entrenched wormhole dwellers to quickly curate the connections to their wormhole by analyzing historical data. Now, the curation of these connections must be done manually, like the greater majority of wormhole activities, in line with the design goal of the space.

This discussion was originally started here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4556962#post4556962

That was a bit of a mistake on my part, I should have made a new thread for it. Sorry about that.

Before we continue this discussion a few words from me.

We do really care about the health of this game and we rely on you guys to give us feedback on changes we are looking at making. That is why both this forum post and the one linked above were made. To get feedback. You will notice that at no point have I given a specific release date because I really want to make sure we get the required feedback and act accordingly.

The gist of the change is that we would like to remove information about NPC kills for wormhole systems in the API.

The reason we're proposing this change: This is data that is available via the API but not in the client in any way. That goes directly against the design of the API and a core rule of it. We are aware that it has been like this for a while but need to make sure we are continuing to iterate on things, even old things, and bring them in line with expectations.

That is the core reason for this change, there are some other smaller ones but that is the big one. We are of course open to discussing how this information should be available in the client and how we reconcile that available knowledge with the goal that wormhole space should be mysterious and unknown. If this brought into the client we would of course be willing to bring it back to the API as well. This is the same reason why we also removed the jump data from the API for WH systems some time ago.

So, lets continue this discussion here and see where this goes. :) Love you all and no matter how mad you might be at me I do appreciate all your feedback! :D

Before posting anything publicly this was discussed with EVE game design. We all agreed it should be removed.

Arguments to delay it pending a game design decision though I think have a lot of validity.

Aside from the information in question here, the absolute co-ordinates for celestials and systems, which allow third party applications to calculate jump ranges of capitals isn't available in client but is available in the API. Guess you'll be taking out that information the same day you remove the NPC kill information right?