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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 16 post(s) |
Shilalasar
Dead Sky Inc.
34
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Posted - 2014.05.07 07:34:00 -
[421] - Quote
Since the goon department of trolling had to point out the abomination of information not in the client let-¦s also remove tower fuel and assets from the API. It is exactly the same remote free intel. It can be put back in after the 6 months it takes to create a UI for it ingame. By that time a good chunk of the towerfarmers would have jumped off a bridge yelling "finally free".
And proposing no web on sleepers as a fix for reward just shows how little you know about j-space. It would only affect the most optimal way of farming, there are still setups that would do it max 20% slower.
The points brought up against this change are risk-reward, which is already way out of balance in all of j-space and will completely go to hell with this change.
Gamedesign vs actual use: Wormholes are supposed to be "the unknown". But after years of information gathering and living there it becomes known by definition. You could only turn it into "the random" or actually add content to explore. Pretty sure nullsecgamedesign wasn-¦t supposed to be it filled with stations, bubbles, more capitals and supercaps than actual people and only two blocempires. Also most gamedesigners in CCP have proven again and again to have no clue about j-space, so there is little trust in them making informed choices.
Right vs wrong playstyle: People claiming farmers have the same rights as regular wh citizens obviously forgot that wormholes are pvp space (hint: no concord protection) and that eve is a lot about interaction with others. Whether a system is occupied by farmers or empty makes only a difference in the price of ribbons, nothing else. I can go mine in farmersystems and they will stay logged off. Also big Wh fights are good PR while the farmers are almost as bad as bots.
About 2 years ago CCP Seagull talked a lot about content creators and helping them. This is one of the best ways to shoot wormhole content creators, some of the most involved people in the game, in the foot ( well, more like in the stomace). If you even get the angry russians posting with bad english ( )you know you are touching a subject that needs further examination.
And for the people asking for HTFU and stuff like that: What-¦s gonna happen is the creation of a new 3rd party tool everybody in the overlords channel contributes to that shows timezones of activity. A checkbox in f.e. Siggy "PvE activity yes/no" for the scouts would be sufficent. Yes that would be active intelgathering for a few months, but afterwards there would be 90% the same intel as is now for the big guys and C5/6s, and no hunting at all in lower classes. Also more ragerolling and less chainscouting, therefore less fights and more mexican standoffs on the static.
Winthorp wrote:So all you nullsec guys that came into this thread after it was cross posted on reddit would be totally ok if we didn't enter local chat after we jump into it via a WH? |
Kename Fin
Wormhole Engineers Greater Realms
6
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Posted - 2014.05.07 07:35:00 -
[422] - Quote
John Caldr wrote:I did not know you so lazy you've made bobbers to do the job for you. In the place where we from bobbers are not automated
Knowing full well that responding to a John Caldr post is both inviting frustration to dinner and the forum equivalent to pissing into the wind on the deck of a ship, I cannot help but notice you have again failed to understand the point or grasp the meaning. At no point did I indicate that using a bobber was anything automatic or claim to be lazy. Thank you for putting words in my mouth and doing it poorly. I will chalk it up perhaps to second language skills on your part.
Since you may be unfamiliar with them, bobbers (or alternatively "strike indicators") are used on poles, nets, lines et cetra to give a visual indication when something is moving the apparatus under the water. It is used by children because they do not have the competency yet to be able to feel when a fish is on the line (CODE might say the fish was violating the EULA and had not paid their swimming fees). Professionals and others who have learned to correctly interpret their equipments' motion and "feel" eschew the use of a bobber for the more sensitive feedback gained without one. |
Simsung Padecain
5
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Posted - 2014.05.07 07:39:00 -
[423] - Quote
Yesterday i wrote a post filled with some rants and venom, glad I didn't post it.
Most of us agree that WH space needs more love. It has become more stagnant than ever, especially in higher class holes. Proposed change might be one of dozens steps needed to make wspace content generating environment again.
For small scale engagements this data was close to useless. I haven't witnessed anyone getting a fight based on NPC/player kills data in a system down the chain. It's outdated. The only use it has as many have already said is for logoff traps. Their fairness factor is not mine to judge, as they fit within game mechanics and as such are valid gameplay.
But!
Recent odyssey changes made ganks much more harder, as long as your "opponent" was paying a little bit of attention to their scanners. Instant sigs showing up on scan work like an alarm, usually by the time you pinpoint the enemy in an anomaly he's already in warp or fully aligned to safety. Smaller stuff also received micro jump drives, which further increased survivalability in wormholes, which were supposed to be high-risk - high reward environment. They're neither high-risk or high-reward anymore due to the amount of people running PvE in them (money ain't great anymore, exceptions are ofc escalations and small group marauder fleets).
Will the proposed change do anything to revitalise WH? No. Is it a bad change? I don't think so. Maybe people will feel safer and run more sites? Good, more content. Will I have to spend more time scouting enemy holes? Probably. I do it anyway if I'm interested in the entity.
What I'd like tho is CCP making their mind and sticking to it. So far I've seen lots of double standards, hypocrisy in decisionmaking and very underwhelming response to "wormhole problems".
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MaxDEL
Quantum Explosion E X P L O S I O N
34
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Posted - 2014.05.07 08:18:00 -
[424] - Quote
For the people who dont know it yet, I'm the CEO of Quantum Explosion
So I apply directly to the ones who want to disable API from CCP side, not to the countless farmers, trolls and hisec/nullbears who never were in WH, did nothing and know nothing
In the last few years our corporation with Blood Union rised WH life to new levels.
- We started things nobody did, and doing some things still unique - We found and kill targets nobody killed before and nobody kill beside us - Our (or I can say the ones I created) fits are now used by almost all WH entities, along with tactics and strategy - We create lof of capital fights, and thats not only login traps - We shaked WH foundations and created the largest capital battle in WH history - We have best killboard in WH space, isk-wise and efficiency-wise, and create more PVP content than most large nullsec alliances - We are ones of the major event generators in W-Space, WH nightmare that makes WH a feared, truly risky and unknown place
With all this I can tell you - you should not completely disable API for NPC kills in WH. With this your will turn off the life in WHs outside few hours a day. The stats are essential. If opinions of the people who lives here and make content mean nothing to you, you can go ahead and kill the world we created and live in. Along with ruining risk-reward balance for wormholes by making farm safe in non-prime hours and creating insane flow of isks from WHs into EVE economy.
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Baarhyn
A fateful lack of ideas
3
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Posted - 2014.05.07 08:44:00 -
[425] - Quote
Crossposting from FHC where the opinion mirror these pretty hard. Gaze at my comprehensive post about the subject where I explain Why people whine, Why they SHOULD whine, and why they SHOULDN'T whine.
Elmnt80;1080995 wrote:So, the problem with doing actual recon with a cloaked alt in a wormhole you're interested in hitting is what exactly?
It's effort mate.
No but really, with the new odyssey scanner people don't have to spam scan anymore, so let's say you're in a site, someone is in their home rolling holes to try and find PVP.
They collapse the static, it reappears in system but doesn't actually spawn until you initiate warp. they find it, and initiate warp to it. At that moment, you as a farmer sees it appearing on the odyssey scanner right away.
T=0
Now being an intelligent human being, you hit siege/triage red, and refit to warp core stabs and a cloak. at the worst of times, you've just hit siege or triage and you have 5 minutes to wait. As soon as you drop, you warp off and cloak.
From the attacking side, they have 20s-1min to warp the fleet to the hole, then they jump in a scout who (currently) yell the J signature and drop probes while another bloke put the signature in your tool of choice, that's another 10-30s, then the signature dude screams on comms that there is activity in system as the scout is D-scanning and/or fiddling with probes to find you. (that is given a lucky shot where the tools have updated just now or the PVE side his in a longer session).
Best case for you, your anom is either a scannable signature (mag or radar site) or out of D-scan range, you can add an extra probe round or 20-30s of warping around before they land on your ass.
T+1min30-2min30
The scout gets a bead on you, and initiate warp to your site, he has 10-40s of warp time, they jump a HIC in, he has 30s-1min of warp time
T+ 3min-5min
They land on you, tackle t3 first most of the time, either you're really unlucky and had just started another siege cycle, but most likely they arrive too late or you slip point as the hic land.
Now on average you should be in the middle of your siege cycle, so even with good circumstances and a on-the-ball crew you should only catch people 25-50% of the time, in real life, maybe what? 10-30% depending on how incompetent people are at looking at the odyssey scanner.
Now this change does not change this dynamic very much, you might increase your average time to target by a couple seconds at most since tools are delayed anyway, what it really fucks up is the loggonski traps, you use the tool to quickly and faultlessly assess the farming pattern of a group to figure out if seeding caps in is worth the hassle.
People are bummed because the only "reliable" way of ganking people right now is seeding considering the time table I just wrote down, rolling into someone actively farming is rare considering TZ coverage, 650 or so different holes with X amount of people in them and the average farming session probably lasting between 30mins and 2h at most. On the bigger time zones like med EU to med US you might need to roll 10-20 holes before you get lucky. We had a meta-tool that scraped the sleeper kills of all c5/c6 and gave us a % of hole in current use back in the days, I would expect people to use that kinda stuff right now. We where happy with a 8-12% activity index in our med to late EU TZ back then and I would be surprised if it was much lower nowadays.
Now the fact that logonski traps are the "best" way of getting action is telling about the state of the meta, people vehemently defending it as a valid game strategy are forgetting that CCP stated a couple of times against that type of gameplay. We should not fall back on broken game mechanics to alleviate other broken game mechanisms.
Now in a vaccum this change is good, you shouldn't be able to defer gaming schedule, TZ coverage, activity and rough player count from outside a system in any shape or form. You can basically scout a full chain without having a single character logged in. In the current meta though, it pushes alot of power in the hands of the PVE crowd since assessing the worthiness of seeding a given system becomes a really tricky affair. You need to strike gold and roll into someone has they are farming, and manage to sneak caps without them noticing on D-scan, and then you need them to farm the following day without a care in the world.
This does not mean that we should stop the devs from implementing that change, it simply means that we should clamor for a better playing field where catching already elusive targets is better than 15% on a good day. Asking for this not to go through is extremely short sighted and partisan however, it means you want to have those free kills no matter what, and in an MMO the health of the game should always pass before player comfort. |
John Caldr
Quantum Explosion E X P L O S I O N
46
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Posted - 2014.05.07 08:44:00 -
[426] - Quote
Kename Fin wrote: derailing
I'm not here to discuss fishing, but bobbers allow to fish at desired depth. And you cant fish if you not paying attention to the bobber Also, there should be indicators "fish is here" - you just dont fish in random places for random results.
Simsung Padecain wrote: Is it a bad change? I don't think so. Maybe people will feel safer and run more sites? Good, more content.
no, they will just run sites in non-prime time, thus - less content, and a hell of extra isks. you can roll only in your prime time when you have enough people, farmers can farm 23/7 |
SKINE DMZ
S U P R E M E - M A T H E M A T I C S A Band Apart.
467
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Posted - 2014.05.07 08:50:00 -
[427] - Quote
Wow this thread has exploded , I'm not sure why some are heavily defending this on and on, with arguments like the unknown isn't the unknown any longer, so we shouldn't even try to make it more unknown? Not sure where their logic is coming from.
Go ahead with this change don't be scared for outrage CCP Foxfour, this is one step in the right way to make wormholes more unknown to how they should be, away with scanning massive chains on siggy and waiting for activity/checking which hole is active in which timezone. It makes absolutely no sense to just have that data available when actually thinking about it, and like some have said perhaps opens up the deeper issue and even a mobile depot for this data would be better to have than API data only.
So much here is just assumed, I still kill a few sleepers on my own while having a couple of wormholes open, Penny still kills (and gets killed) and actively hunts without log off traps and without checking which timezone the corporation plays in (please don't start mentioning siggy activity penny), playing in wormholes should always be an active process and why do you even feel obliged to have all that data and freedom from many (10++) wormholes in your chain? Neither will "farmers" be even more safer, if anything they will now be given the fake security back and will feel more comfortable running sites in a unsecure environment, I know it will do that for me already and I already happily kill sleepers in a unsecure environment, just ask the guy who said hello in local the other day while a few of us got rid of a bunch of sites in their hole (no we didn't stop either). I disagree
RAWR IM TOUGH |
Jessica Duranin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
88
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 09:14:00 -
[428] - Quote
John Caldr wrote: In plenty of posts it was clearly explained why this information is irreplaceable for WH PVP. TLDR: Plx give free intel because our scouts suck and can't identify if a system is active or not.
Srsly, just leave w-space. You'll be much happier in high sec ganking freighters. |
Adrie Atticus
The Shadow Plague Fidelas Constans
85
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Posted - 2014.05.07 09:17:00 -
[429] - Quote
John Caldr wrote:In plenty of posts it was clearly explained why this information is irreplaceable for WH PVP.
But is it the only information available to you as a player to find targets? |
Enaris Kerle
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
98
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 09:29:00 -
[430] - Quote
all of these cries of "those changes will kill w-space" sound exactly like "CCP, if you change industry LITERALLY EVERYONE in highsec will unsubscribe" Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm. |
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King Fu Hostile
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
92
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Posted - 2014.05.07 09:43:00 -
[431] - Quote
Enaris Kerle wrote:all of these cries of "those changes will kill w-space" sound exactly like "CCP, if you change industry LITERALLY EVERYONE in highsec will unsubscribe"
Except the industry changes actually have something to do with EVE Online, and not just some irrelevant API stats.
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Enaris Kerle
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
98
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 09:46:00 -
[432] - Quote
King Fu Hostile wrote:Except the industry changes actually have something to do with EVE Online, and not just some irrelevant API stats.
if they were irrelevant, people wouldn't have been bitching and moaning about the change for 22 pages Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm. |
Rab See
Fool Mental Junket
63
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Posted - 2014.05.07 09:52:00 -
[433] - Quote
I have always thought it an oddity that WHs have interbus POCOs, jump/kill statistics and generally any form of K-space gubbins.
The 'attackers' (I am one) get a distinct advantage about what state a WH is in from the API and the tools that arose from it. It will be harder to find targets now, possibly killing off a lot of the game, but would be far more rational. |
John Caldr
Quantum Explosion E X P L O S I O N
46
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Posted - 2014.05.07 09:53:00 -
[434] - Quote
Adrie Atticus wrote: But is it the only information available to you as a player to find targets?
NPC kills - thats the only information that indicates farming activity.
There can be intensive farming, but zero kills for months and zero pods. (and will be since it hard to die to WH npc or rolling gankers if you have head on the shoulders)
Active poses are in any WH, they means nothing. There can be zero npc activity in months.
Pos owner corporation means nothing - there can be too much people in corporation to monitor with watchlist, pos can be (and by smart farmers is) used by the people from another corporations. Plus if your kill/s did not get to kb after corporation change - you not listed in eve-who list.
No pos at all - means nothing - farmers use carrier/orca as a mobile base.
"Untouched" anomalies - means nothing - they can be farmed this way too.
No people in system - means nothing, most systems are active 1-2 hours once a week. |
Sirinda
Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium
340
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Posted - 2014.05.07 09:53:00 -
[435] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Servant's Lord wrote:CCPFoxFour,
Let me just clarify a few things as to why us WH pvp entities have a problem with this.
Most of the time, when we've had our static open for a while, we end up with quite a "chain" (basically a long line of WHs connected to each other) that is somewhat difficult to constantly monitor. While this nerf would make that an issue, that isn't our main problem.
The problem we have is, at present, carebearing in wspace is far too safe/secure. Right now, it's almost impossible to actually catch carebears by rolling into their system. The second you initiate warp to your side of the WH, a new anom pops up on their (slightly overpowered auto dscan tool). This alerts them that it's time to leave the site. All capitals immediately cancel whatever siege or triage they're involved in, and promptly refit to stabs to warp back to the "safety" of their POS.
Unless you happen to roll into someone who just started their siege cycle, it is INCREDIBLY difficult to land tackle. When we go to jump into a WH, we DON'T know if anyone is in there, we DON'T know if the residents are even running sites (should they exist), and we DON'T know where they are even if they do happen to be running sites.
I understand that you have a problem with us having real-time info, or that our internally developed tools are too powerful, and perhaps that does give us a slight advantage. The problem we have is that is our ONLY advantage at present.
The only truly consistent way of being able to kill competent WH bearing groups is through login trap mechanics - aka by taking the time and effort to actually move capitals and subcaps in, log them off, and then patiently wait for said groups to begin running sites. Currently, there is only one way to determine if a WH is worth seeding/active, and that is by checking the HISTORY of NPC kills through the API, aka seeing "oh these guys ran sites 18 hours ago" - this information allows us to make a somewhat informed decision on whether we want to seed the WH or not. Without this, the only way we can possibly seed a WH is by making a complete shot in the dark.
Removing the API npc kill data completely stacks the odds in favor of the WH NPCers - the npc kill data was our best, last, and ONLY advantage over someone PVEing in wspace.
From reading your posts, I assume the problem you have is us being able to passively gather intel on our chain while not having pilots in space doing the work - would you feel that adding in a delayed API would be a better choice?
Perhaps write it in so the API gives us the NPC kill history of a system - but it's delayed by 8-12 hours? This way, we cannot get "live" intel on systems easily, but we can see some trends of NPC kills in order to determine if there is even anyone active in that WH (online POS mean nothing in terms of activity).
Additionally, I would politely suggest/ask that you implement a modified version of the "delayed k162 spawn" suggestion discussed earlier. I feel that Wspace PVEers are given too much free instant intel through absolutely no effort of their own, making them far too safe. I don't want to punish someone willing to do active intel, so I would hope this wouldn't extend to probes, but delaying the built-in passive dscanner from picking up a new sig by at least a minute would go a long way towards leveling the playing field in terms of wspace pvp groups being able to catch PVEers.
One of your stated design goals of wspace is that lack of intel, or a local chat - right now, being able to see new sigs pop up instantly acts in exactly the same manner as local does for most nullsec PVE residents, and I would assume THIS goes against your stated design goals.
Please give some consideration to my thoughts, and try to keep things balanced for both sides, rather than handing all the advantages to one side.
Appreciated,
Servant's Lord, Disavowed Thank you VERY much! This is a very well put together post that has good points and reasons behind those points. I will bring much of this up when I take the discussion back to the rest of the design team.
Hell, if you want to get technical, a new sig should emit *radiation* only at the speed of light. There's actually no way for a ship multiple AUs out to have it pop up immediately unless there's some sort of detection grid deployed. |
King Fu Hostile
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
95
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Posted - 2014.05.07 10:09:00 -
[436] - Quote
Enaris Kerle wrote:King Fu Hostile wrote:Except the industry changes actually have something to do with EVE Online, and not just some irrelevant API stats.
if they were irrelevant, people wouldn't have been bitching and moaning about the change for 22 pages
Bitching and moaning does not imply relevance
The deal here is that they can have the exact same information by playing the game after the change, but it won't be delivered to their iPhones when they are playing LoL.
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King Fu Hostile
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
95
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Posted - 2014.05.07 10:14:00 -
[437] - Quote
John Caldr wrote:Adrie Atticus wrote: But is it the only information available to you as a player to find targets?
NPC kills - thats the only information that indicates farming activity.There can be intensive farming, but zero kills for months and zero pods. (and will be since it hard to die to WH npc or rolling gankers if you have head on the shoulders) Active poses are in any WH, they means nothing. There can be zero npc activity in months. Pos owner corporation means nothing - there can be too much people in corporation to monitor with watchlist, pos can be (and by smart farmers is) used by the people from another corporations. Plus if your kill/s did not get to kb after corporation change - you not listed in eve-who list. No pos at all - means nothing - farmers use carrier/orca as a mobile base. "Untouched" anomalies - means nothing - they can be farmed this way too. No people in system - means nothing, most systems are active 1-2 hours once a week.
And which one of these is an issue that needs to be solved by providing free intel out of the game, without even being in the system and without the targets knowing that you are watching them, and without any possible way to know that you have caps logged off in the system?
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John Caldr
Quantum Explosion E X P L O S I O N
46
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Posted - 2014.05.07 10:24:00 -
[438] - Quote
King Fu Hostile wrote: without any possible way to know that you have caps logged off in the system?
Yep, WE cant know how many capitals they have logged in the system waiting for us and if we were spotted by the cloaked scout so they can just avoid farming or counter-drop us. So bears have full advantage of unknown. |
Enaris Kerle
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
98
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Posted - 2014.05.07 10:33:00 -
[439] - Quote
John Caldr wrote:Yep, WE cant know how many capitals they have logged in the system waiting for us and if we were spotted by the cloaked scout so they can just avoid farming or counter-drop us. So bears have full advantage of unknown. how does having NPC kill counts on the API help you avoid getting counter-dropped? Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm. |
King Fu Hostile
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
95
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Posted - 2014.05.07 10:50:00 -
[440] - Quote
John Caldr wrote:King Fu Hostile wrote: without any possible way to know that you have caps logged off in the system?
Yep, WE cant know how many capitals they have logged in the system waiting for us and if we were spotted by the cloaked scout so they can just avoid farming or counter-drop us. So bears have full advantage of unknown.
wow, such risk
You didn't answer the question, btw
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Ryann Padecain
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
49
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Posted - 2014.05.07 10:53:00 -
[441] - Quote
John Caldr wrote:King Fu Hostile wrote: without any possible way to know that you have caps logged off in the system?
Yep, WE cant know how many capitals they have logged in the system waiting for us and if we were spotted by the cloaked scout so they can just avoid farming or counter-drop us. So bears have full advantage of unknown. .. the crap people come out with so that they don't change this is mental.
This data should not be available on a website, it is not available in a game. Wormholes should be unknown.
All this is completely separate from the fact that people think farmers should have less risk. Big wormhole pvp groups? Big crying whining ganking groups more like it. |
John Caldr
Quantum Explosion E X P L O S I O N
60
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Posted - 2014.05.07 11:01:00 -
[442] - Quote
Ryann Padecain wrote: Farmer Rage&Tears
King Fu Hostile wrote: wow, such risk
https://www.zkillboard.com/related/31002187/201404232300/
King Fu Hostile wrote: You didn't answer the question, btw
There was no question unanswered previously in this thread. |
Claud Tiberius
36
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Posted - 2014.05.07 11:06:00 -
[443] - Quote
It's a good change and should have happened ages ago. |
Ryann Padecain
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
49
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Posted - 2014.05.07 11:21:00 -
[444] - Quote
Haha yes I am a farmer because I think wormholes should be more unknown, and big players who scan 40 wormholes simply sit back in their POS after scanning and wait for activity to note down.. they are hardcore pvpers riiiight..
this is a change that should of been done when the jumps were removed, it will bring more people to wormholes aka more pvp, the only ones who are against this are who currently like the person above me said it nicely waiting on their iPhone to beep to say to come online because someone is online running sites! HOW DARE THEY!
Don't get dishearted by wormholers people who arent wormholers.. the big guys are indeed the gankers and logoff traps waiting for pings only kind of people, rather than the smaller groups who try and actively scout and hunt their next door nabours <-- the real wormholers and this will spawn more of these people |
corbexx
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
370
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Posted - 2014.05.07 11:56:00 -
[445] - Quote
copied from the wormhole section.
Rek Seven wrote:It makes scene to remove the API kills but at them same time, this doesn't improve gameplay.
This is pretty much it. Wormhole space is the unknown.
But this change combined with instant sigs makes farming really safe.
Ok so farmers will be happy. Non farmers aren't.
The next problem is the follow on effect, more farming will properly lead to nano's dropping in price. This will then hit the smaller groups in c1 to c4 space hard making there income less (which to me is already to low anyway).
It's the follow on effect I'm pretty worried about as this could potentially effect the whole of wh space in a bad way,. It's also something I think people are forgetting about.
I really need to get more info. Corbexx for CSM 9 - Wormholes deserve better |
John Caldr
Quantum Explosion E X P L O S I O N
66
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Posted - 2014.05.07 11:58:00 -
[446] - Quote
Ryann Padecain wrote: some words from someone who dont know what he is talking about
General chain while rolling is about 1-5 WHs long, and they all scouted, and chain rolling every 4-10 mins. |
John Caldr
Quantum Explosion E X P L O S I O N
68
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Posted - 2014.05.07 12:06:00 -
[447] - Quote
corbexx wrote: The next problem is the follow on effect, more farming will properly lead to nano's dropping in price. This will then hit the smaller groups in c1 to c4 space hard making there income less (which to me is already to low anyway).
It's the follow on effect I'm pretty worried about as this could potentially effect the whole of wh space in a bad way,. It's also something I think people are forgetting about.
I really need to get more info.
To CCP FoxFour - yes, please take a note that its not about "logoffs only" at all.
Sir Corbex right, and let me illustrate it a bit.
We all have open killboards. http://eve-kill.net/?a=alliance_detail&all_id=7341 http://eve-kill.net/?a=alliance_detail&all_id=9923 http://eve-kill.net/?a=alliance_detail&all_id=8903 http://eve-kill.net/?a=alliance_detail&all_id=8407 http://eve-kill.net/?a=corp_detail&crp_id=400626 http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=914141 http://eve-kill.net/?a=alliance_detail&all_id=5676 http://eve-kill.net/?a=alliance_detail&all_id=9250 http://eve-kill.net/?a=alliance_detail&all_id=6165
(and i'm sure I did not mentioned all)
Lets make an estimate of the average sum of kills using delayed API data (logoff traps that can't be done while rolling, more attention to some chains, etc) Lets say is it is about 1000B per month. I'm sure its a lot more, but it is a safe to assume number. (there is about 500B+ just from BU/QEX).
If left intact, each of this carebear groups farm about 5x times the cost of the capitals in lazy scenario, or 10x-15x with intensive farming, so they all produce about 5000-15000B per month. Lets say more safe enviroment doubles this number in the first month since more people start farming, and doubles later. The resulting number of ISKs added to the economy would be equialent to 20-60 Trillions extra isks per month in the nearest months. 10-30 Trillions isks in most simple short scenario.
Insane titan clashing, most epic battle in EVE - battle in B-R5RB destroyed 11 Trillions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloodbath_of_B-R5RB
and had impressive results on market: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=332231
So, even if you dont care about PVP content and people who make it, before making a final decision, please estimate in your team how an extra of 10-20-30-60 Trillions ISKs per month will affect EVE and its citizens, if you decide to "just disable API data".
And thats NOT inluding results from more safe enviroment in low-grade WHs on one side, and drop in T3 prices on the other, and need to farm more when inflation rages on.
We dont need a real time data, API never was realtime to beging with. We just need sleepers to keep us notified who and when did harm them a bit in the past. |
HTC NecoSino
Blackstar Privateers Disavowed.
100
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Posted - 2014.05.07 12:31:00 -
[448] - Quote
John Caldr wrote:[quote=corbexx] So, even if you dont care about PVP content and people who make it, before making a final decision, please estimate in your team how an extra of 10-20-30-60 Trillions ISKs per month will affect EVE and its citizens, if you decide to "just disable API data".
A: Goons get burned out of WH. A couple weeks later - fanfest. A couple days later - this change.
B: CCP needs real money to revamp DUST and try to salvage that fiasco on the PC. They don't care about PLEX at the moment, they want liquid cash. |
King Fu Hostile
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
97
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Posted - 2014.05.07 12:40:00 -
[449] - Quote
:DDDD
So you are actually claiming that removal of the NPC API data will double the total isk influx of whole EVE and that only your valiant efforts to combat the rampant farming has saved us from hyperinflation?
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Enaris Kerle
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
98
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Posted - 2014.05.07 12:42:00 -
[450] - Quote
Instead of pulling numbers straight out of your posterior, how about you actually provide numbers based on fact? None of this "yeah well we're killing 500b a month and if I multiply that by the two thumbs on my hands I get to 1T, times people farming this makes 5T, and if we assume that that number will triple due to the changes, we'll arrive at 15T ISK injected into the economy each month" crap. Remember that only the stuff you can sell to NPCs is injecting ISK into the economy; nanoribbons are sold to players, so the ISK only changes hands and isn't injected. Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm. |
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