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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 16 post(s) |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
531
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 14:35:00 -
[481] - Quote
Appel Sap wrote:BayneNothos wrote:Others have said that farmer systems looks a particular way. Maybe you're missing something? Either way you're getting free intel for no effort. That's not the EvE way. I must be missing something to. Please, tell us, how to get this intel through different mechanics? Insert one character in a covert ops class frigate. Fit it with a covert ops cloaking device and an expanded probe launcher. Carry a set of core and combat probes, for use in the expanded probe launcher. Once you have located a new wormhole, enter it, cloak, and use the probe launcher, the directional scanner, and your eyes to determine if a system has the Dreaded PvE Demons within. Launch an overwhelming force at the Demons, so that your own PvE group's profitability stays at an acceptable level. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10705
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 14:35:00 -
[482] - Quote
John Caldr wrote:Yep, WE cant know how many capitals they have logged in the system waiting for us and if we were spotted by the cloaked scout so they can just avoid farming or counter-drop us. So bears have full advantage of unknown.
if you don't like the unpredictability of wormhole PvP maybe you should do hisec wardecs Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
BayneNothos
United Electro-Magnetic Federation Business Alliance of Manufacturers and Miners
69
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 14:40:00 -
[483] - Quote
All these economic arguments to keep the API data are ridiculous anyway. It smacks of Anti-Your gameplay style elitism that seems to infect many groups in this game. One of the best things about W-Space is that all gameplay aspects are out here and in close proximity. You can see a half dozen gameplay styles in a day out here and that's awesome.
The ONLY reason any gameplay style should be smacked down is because it's hurting the game. And if it's hurting the game there's nothing you can do about it. CCP can and does. It's their job. If farmers are injecting too much isk into the economy that's CCP's job to balance out the blue loot to taper that off. If too much loot is coming from a particular
You flat out can't invade enough WH's to ever have an impact on this. There are more farmers than you. This idea that you're somehow being noble and saving EvE by attacking farmers is ridiculous.
If you want to keep your gameplay style then go for it, no one is stopping you. Just suck it up and put in some effort into it rather than demanding it be given to you on a silver platter. |
BayneNothos
United Electro-Magnetic Federation Business Alliance of Manufacturers and Miners
69
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 14:42:00 -
[484] - Quote
Appel Sap wrote:BayneNothos wrote:Others have said that farmer systems looks a particular way. Maybe you're missing something? Either way you're getting free intel for no effort. That's not the EvE way. I must be missing something to. Please, tell us, how to get this intel through different mechanics?
It's back that way somewhere and I'm too lazy to fish through 25 pages.
To paraphrase "You can't hurt farmers by burning them out as they run small POS's with nothing on them and live out of carriers" if that's true then next time you see that, drop an alt in and start scouting. |
John Caldr
Quantum Explosion E X P L O S I O N
75
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 14:45:00 -
[485] - Quote
1. This OOG tool relies on player saved data and do not include all the regions 2. Sleeper blue books are not only nexus, if you add 3 others - number will be close to 10T just in regions this tool has covered - and blue books can be sold at any place at the same price, so nobody moves them to hubs and this tool can never show correct values 3. Nanoribbons, on the contrary, are sold mostly in hubs 4. Average proportion for Melted Nanoribbons - 1/8 of all salvage/blue books 5. Thats gives us a rough estimate of at least 14T+ of isks generated by WHs based at ribbons sold ONLY at Jita region in this month. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10705
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 14:47:00 -
[486] - Quote
John Caldr wrote:There can be intensive farming, but zero kills for months and zero pods. (and will be since it hard to die to WH npc or rolling gankers if you have head on the shoulders)
Active poses are in any WH, they means nothing. There can be zero npc activity in months.
Pos owner corporation means nothing - there can be too much people in corporation to monitor with watchlist, pos can be (and by smart farmers is) used by the people from another corporations. Plus if your kill/s did not get to kb after corporation change - you not listed in eve-who list.
No pos at all - means nothing - farmers use carrier/orca as a mobile base.
"Untouched" anomalies - means nothing - they can be farmed this way too.
No people in system - means nothing, most systems are active 1-2 hours once a week.
yes clearly 1-2 hour/week "farmers" staging out of a carrier are the ones who are utterly destroying the price of nanoribbons for the organized groups that totally don't do a lot more farming than they do Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
Enaris Kerle
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
98
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 14:58:00 -
[487] - Quote
Andski wrote:yes clearly 1-2 hour/week "farmers" staging out of a carrier are the ones who are utterly destroying the price of nanoribbons for the organized groups that totally don't do a lot more farming than they do I like how he has no response to us calling his bullshit so he ignores it because maybe that'll make the evil goones go away Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm. |
Bohneik Itohn
Periphery Bound
81
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 15:09:00 -
[488] - Quote
John Caldr wrote:1. This OOG tool relies on player saved data and do not include all the regions 2. Sleeper blue books are not only nexus, if you add 3 others - number will be close to 10T just in regions this tool has covered - and blue books can be sold at any place at the same price, so nobody moves them to hubs and this tool can never show correct values 3. Nanoribbons, on the contrary, are sold mostly in hubs 4. Average proportion for Melted Nanoribbons - 1/8 of all salvage/blue books 5. Thats gives us a rough estimate of at least 14T+ of isks generated by WHs based at ribbons sold ONLY at Jita region in this month.
I'm sorry, wait....
Did this become an economic issue? Nanoribbons are destroying the economy?
Nanoribbons are sold by players to players, so they are not an isk faucet, they are an isk exchange. All isk exchanges for items on the market are taxed in some way, so that makes nanoribbons a net isk sink on the Eve economy.
So what you really have a problem with is the farmers making isk off of other players, right? This is really an issue about isk moving from high sec trade hubs into WH's. Or is blue loot going to be the new boogieman destroying eve on the next page of posts? |
John Caldr
Quantum Explosion E X P L O S I O N
76
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 15:15:00 -
[489] - Quote
BayneNothos wrote:proposition
also answered above
Bohneik Itohn wrote: text
There is a killboard. It has numbers you cant argue with. C5/C6 are the place where major WH income generated. If you remove predators from any ecosystem, remove their teeth or put a fence between them and the prey - its falling apart. And it will hurt C4 and lower pretty hard - they will lose all the reason to exist - there will be less profit than at incursions or mission running. Along with affecting other EVE citizens due to inflation and increased WH isks flow. |
Ilaister
Task Force Proteus Protean Concept
86
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 15:15:00 -
[490] - Quote
We don't need out of date statistics on the holes in our chain. Ditch it CCP with the proviso that the discovery scanner fails to ping you on new sigs pls. |
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Def Monk
404 File Not Found
10
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 15:22:00 -
[491] - Quote
John Caldr wrote:BayneNothos wrote:proposition also answered above Bohneik Itohn wrote: text There is a killboard. It has numbers you cant argue with. C5/C6 are the place where major WH income generated. If you remove predators from any ecosystem, remove their teeth or put a fence between them and the prey - its falling apart. And it will hurt C4 and lower pretty hard - they will lose all the reason to exist - there will be less profit than at incursions or mission running. Along with affecting other EVE citizens due to inflation and increased WH isks flow. They're already worth less than HS incursions. Lol. It's atrociously bad, really. |
Nightingale Actault
Divided Unity The Night Crew Alliance
23
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 15:29:00 -
[492] - Quote
Though my idealistic opinion on this change is the same as I presented previously in this thread, that I agree this would be a change more in the line of what I view the W-Space environment to be, I cannot support this change.
I do NOT agree that this information should be something that someone with a mapping / intel tool should be able to receive an alert on a mapping tool to tell them when activity starts up somewhere in their chain or even to give someone notice when activity is occuring recently in their home WH.
This information here is rather minimal compared to what we gather from manual scouting, as in each individual pilots playtimes, ships, patterns and tendencies. This information does not tell you which group was the ones performing said PvE activities either, and one could be easily mislead believing a group is active at a time they are not if they used this information as their sole point of intel. Even with this information available we still need to spend countless hours waiting and watching for the visual confirmations we need. |
Bohneik Itohn
Periphery Bound
81
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 15:30:00 -
[493] - Quote
Ilaister wrote:We don't need out of date statistics on the holes in our chain. Ditch it CCP with the proviso that the discovery scanner fails to ping you on new sigs pls.
I'd like to see WH sigs changed so that statics don't appear on the exit side until someone has jumped through them or a timer of an as yet to be determined amount of minutes is up, and I'd like to see a module that allows HICS to keep that signature hidden by remaining on the side of origin with the module active. The more HICS on the side of origin with the module active, the more jumps can be made through the WH before the signature is revealed on the other side.
This makes it a balancing act and requires the FC to make snap decisions. If there are targets of opportunity a prepared corporation will have the ability to slip a small number of ships in and take them. If time is of the essence the FC can choose to drop the element of surprise and rush in with everything he has, and if the opposition is too strong he can get everyone geared up to roll the hole and try to get it done as quickly as possible before they sieze the advantage.
This has a lot of balance and gameplay issues and I fully expect to be called a drooling ******. I have no problem with that. |
Def Monk
404 File Not Found
10
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 15:31:00 -
[494] - Quote
So side note: I brought this up in my initial post but I assume it was too long for most people to read, so I'll bring up one particular point I mentioned before. It's a small issue, but I'm just curious as to other people's thoughts. As said before, keep in mind, I am for this API change as it moves towards what wspace and the API should ideally be.
Currently, abandoned towers litter the wspace landscape. There's no easy way to remove or take them (especially in lower classes). There's no easy way to tell if the tower is abandoned or if people still live there. This information helps give a general idea of whether the system is consistently active - aka, someone is living there. Without this and being unable to judge an empty system based on the towers, how do we figure out if a system is lived in? This currently acts as a workaround, and is in no way ideal, but without some other fix, I only see this issue becoming more of an issue.
Wspace hasn't been iterated on since introduction, and POSs are, as many devs have stated, a mess of code. I don't see this being dealt with any time soon (keynote stated it would happen as part of their long-term plan, but, as stated, building stargates is a multi-year plan, meaning fixing POS mechanics is also a year or two away.). |
Elisha Young
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 15:47:00 -
[495] - Quote
to balance things out, why not increase the likeliness of a connection between active WH. that could compensate the overhead of removing the API info.
also this shouldn't be too difficult to justify from a RP point of view if that's even needed. |
Aiphona
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 15:51:00 -
[496] - Quote
There is no question about it..
Info that is not available ingame should not be available out of game...
Should have been implemented a long time ago.
+1 |
Bohneik Itohn
Periphery Bound
81
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 15:57:00 -
[497] - Quote
Def Monk wrote:So side note: I brought this up in my initial post but I assume it was too long for most people to read, so I'll bring up one particular point I mentioned before. It's a small issue, but I'm just curious as to other people's thoughts. As said before, keep in mind, I am for this API change as it moves towards what wspace and the API should ideally be.
Currently, abandoned towers litter the wspace landscape. There's no easy way to remove or take them (especially in lower classes). There's no easy way to tell if the tower is abandoned or if people still live there. This information helps give a general idea of whether the system is consistently active - aka, someone is living there. Without this and being unable to judge an empty system based on the towers, how do we figure out if a system is lived in? This currently acts as a workaround, and is in no way ideal, but without some other fix, I only see this issue becoming more of an issue.
Wspace hasn't been iterated on since introduction, and POSs are, as many devs have stated, a mess of code. I don't see this being dealt with any time soon (keynote stated it would happen as part of their long-term plan, but, as stated, building stargates is a multi-year plan, meaning fixing POS mechanics is also a year or two away.).
Yeah, we know, POS's need to be fixed as a whole and not just in WH space. We get it. There is almost unanimous agreement from this group of people which is why you didn't get the applause and golden watch you were waiting for.
I honestly think that some of these capital PvP WH groups need to get over the idea that their only way to enjoy Eve is through a narrow focus on a particular type of gameplay.
I mean... Instead of just blowing up a couple ships you could always run the farmers out of the WH, if you find them that offensive. Bubble them up in their POS and farm all their sites yourself every time you roll into a farmers hole. 5 hours of farming was equated to 10 billion isk for 2 farmers earlier. So if you kill 2 capitals you've denied the farmers 4-6 billion isk and if you clean out all of their sites you cause twice as much damage to their wallet.... And you do it in half the time of the proposed 10 hours of scouting needed to log off in their hole and gank them in the middle of farming.
Seems legit... If they want that ISK, they can fight for it. If you want conflict in WH space, you can encourage it instead of just blatantly forcing it in situations where you yourself are taking very little risk.
One aspect of logging off in someone else's WH that hasn't been mentioned is just how easy it is to avoid a fight you can't win: Don't log on.
Carebears annoy me, Carebears who call themselves PvPers even more so. |
Bohneik Itohn
Periphery Bound
81
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 16:03:00 -
[498] - Quote
Elisha Young wrote:to balance things out, why not increase the likeliness of a connection between active WH. that could compensate the overhead of removing the API info.
also this shouldn't be too difficult to justify from a RP point of view if that's even needed.
I was going to mention this very same idea, but couldn't be bothered to flesh it out, yet now I find myself with a lot of extra time on my hands yet again.
It's behind the curtain mechanics so it shouldn't need to be explained. There is still a percentage chance it could go either way, but depending on the activity of the residents the likelihood of rolling into an active hole can be increased. If the residents are consistently rolling out of inactive holes, stack the deck in their favor of rolling into an active one, but not so heavily that finding people is a guarantee after a certain number of rolls. There should still be a good degree of uncertainty and random chance. If the residents are rolling into holes and clearing the sites within that hole, leave the chance to roll into an active hole just as random as it's always been.
This will not be easy for CCP to implement, but it would be a very good solution to the problem that would satisfy everyone. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10708
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 16:11:00 -
[499] - Quote
Def Monk wrote:They're already worth less than HS incursions. Lol. It's atrociously bad, really.
Maybe the problem is that incursion payouts in hisec are ludicrously high Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
John Caldr
Quantum Explosion E X P L O S I O N
79
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 16:46:00 -
[500] - Quote
Bohneik Itohn wrote: Seems legit... If they want that ISK, they can fight for it. If you want conflict in WH space, you can encourage it instead of just blatantly forcing it in situations where you yourself are taking very little risk.
I understand you have some dreams, but in reality carebears spotting WH PVP tickers just log off. Even if you'll attack the pos, you'll get nothing. Ships that cant be saved will be self-destructed, fit stripped. They dont care about anomalies - there always will be few next day. And we ourselves have plenty of places to farm with better efficiency and better comfort. |
|
Bohneik Itohn
Periphery Bound
82
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 17:16:00 -
[501] - Quote
Bohneik Itohn wrote:Ilaister wrote:We don't need out of date statistics on the holes in our chain. Ditch it CCP with the proviso that the discovery scanner fails to ping you on new sigs pls. I'd like to see WH sigs changed so that statics don't appear on the exit side until someone has jumped through them or a timer of an as yet to be determined amount of minutes is up, and I'd like to see a module that allows HICS to keep that signature hidden by remaining on the side of origin with the module active. The more HICS on the side of origin with the module active, the more jumps can be made through the WH before the signature is revealed on the other side. This makes it a balancing act and requires the FC to make snap decisions. If there are targets of opportunity a prepared corporation will have the ability to slip a small number of ships in and take them. If time is of the essence the FC can choose to drop the element of surprise and rush in with everything he has, and if the opposition is too strong he can get everyone geared up to roll the hole and try to get it done as quickly as possible before they sieze the advantage. This has a lot of balance and gameplay issues and I fully expect to be called a drooling ******. I have no problem with that.
Quoting myself because not only am I clearly the most important person in this conversation, but I just had an epiphany.
Give this ability to Black Ops BS's instead. It fits their role and finally gives WH pilots a reason to use them. HICs already have a prominent role in WH tactics, they don't need another one. |
Lisa Tayside
Monks of War
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 17:27:00 -
[502] - Quote
Correct change CCP FoxFour, this data shouldn't be accessed via API or client by design.
Also don't forget about other side of this question with delay of K162 signature! |
Faren Shalni
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
4
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 17:31:00 -
[503] - Quote
Im neither for or against this change, however if this change is going to happen then implement a delay on new K162's otherwise Wspace will become the new renter space which are safer than hisec |
Def Monk
404 File Not Found
10
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 17:41:00 -
[504] - Quote
Bohneik Itohn wrote:Def Monk wrote:So side note: I brought this up in my initial post but I assume it was too long for most people to read, so I'll bring up one particular point I mentioned before. It's a small issue, but I'm just curious as to other people's thoughts. As said before, keep in mind, I am for this API change as it moves towards what wspace and the API should ideally be.
Currently, abandoned towers litter the wspace landscape. There's no easy way to remove or take them (especially in lower classes). There's no easy way to tell if the tower is abandoned or if people still live there. This information helps give a general idea of whether the system is consistently active - aka, someone is living there. Without this and being unable to judge an empty system based on the towers, how do we figure out if a system is lived in? This currently acts as a workaround, and is in no way ideal, but without some other fix, I only see this issue becoming more of an issue.
Wspace hasn't been iterated on since introduction, and POSs are, as many devs have stated, a mess of code. I don't see this being dealt with any time soon (keynote stated it would happen as part of their long-term plan, but, as stated, building stargates is a multi-year plan, meaning fixing POS mechanics is also a year or two away.). Yeah, we know, POS's need to be fixed as a whole and not just in WH space. We get it. There is almost unanimous agreement from this group of people which is why you didn't get the applause and golden watch you were waiting for. I honestly think that some of these capital PvP WH groups need to get over the idea that their only way to enjoy Eve is through a narrow focus on a particular type of gameplay. I mean... Instead of just blowing up a couple ships you could always run the farmers out of the WH, if you find them that offensive. Bubble them up in their POS and farm all their sites yourself every time you roll into a farmers hole. 5 hours of farming was equated to 10 billion isk for 2 farmers earlier. So if you kill 2 capitals you've denied the farmers 4-6 billion isk and if you clean out all of their sites you cause twice as much damage to their wallet.... And you do it in half the time of the proposed 10 hours of scouting needed to log off in their hole and gank them in the middle of farming. Seems legit... If they want that ISK, they can fight for it. If you want conflict in WH space, you can encourage it instead of just blatantly forcing it in situations where you yourself are taking very little risk. One aspect of logging off in someone else's WH that hasn't been mentioned is just how easy it is to avoid a fight you can't win: Don't log on. Carebears annoy me, Carebears who call themselves PvPers even more so. I'm aware everyone knows the problems with POSs. It was more an attempt to get conversation rolling for alternatives and solutions in the meantime - this functionality currently acts as one and with it going away, brainstorming ideas seemed like a good idea. I wasn't looking for a medal. I was looking for input.
I'm quite aware capital PvP is not the only way to enjoy eve. In fact, I have nothing to do with it. My primary wspace experience is with about 5-10 other pilots in a C4, hunting people in our static C2. Unlike the larger groups using this to find capitals, we use it to avoid larger groups we can't deal with.
We do run people out of WHs. It's one of my favorite things to do - watch and learn their habits for a week or two before coming in to reinforce everything while they're logged off, and we enjoy the fights that ensue until we can loot the pinata.
We can't run anything higher than C4 sites. We're not large enough. As I said, I'm for this change. Carebears have a right to their playstyle, and people who dabble in different areas are fine as well. You say carebears annoy you? Well, tactless pricks who choose to pointlessly attack other's choices in how to enjoy themselves annoy me, and most other people who play eve. Go make assumptions elsewhere.
Andski wrote:Def Monk wrote:They're already worth less than HS incursions. Lol. It's atrociously bad, really. Maybe the problem is that incursion payouts in hisec are ludicrously high Very valid, and I agree. By the same mention though, I'd say payouts in all space is currently too high other than LS. High class WHs shouldn't be as farmable, HS missions are too safe, and null shouldn't be able to produce hundreds of titans. Alas, the original balance for all of these things haven't withstood the test of time. |
Bohneik Itohn
Periphery Bound
82
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 17:47:00 -
[505] - Quote
Def Monk wrote: I'm aware everyone knows the problems with POSs. It was more an attempt to get conversation rolling for alternatives and solutions in the meantime - this functionality currently acts as one and with it going away, brainstorming ideas seemed like a good idea. I wasn't looking for a medal. I was looking for input.
I'm quite aware capital PvP is not the only way to enjoy eve. In fact, I have nothing to do with it. My primary wspace experience is with about 5-10 other pilots in a C4, hunting people in our static C2. Unlike the larger groups using this to find capitals, we use it to avoid larger groups we can't deal with.
We do run people out of WHs. It's one of my favorite things to do - watch and learn their habits for a week or two before coming in to reinforce everything while they're logged off, and we enjoy the fights that ensue until we can loot the pinata.
We can't run anything higher than C4 sites. We're not large enough. As I said, I'm for this change. Carebears have a right to their playstyle, and people who dabble in different areas are fine as well. You say carebears annoy you? Well, tactless pricks who choose to pointlessly attack other's choices in how to enjoy themselves annoy me, and most other people who play eve. Go make assumptions elsewhere.
That was a mistake in how I formatted the post. Only the first couple lines were directed at you, the rest at the tear-jerkers. I already knew your stance. Sorry for the confusion. |
Def Monk
404 File Not Found
10
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 17:48:00 -
[506] - Quote
Bohneik Itohn wrote:Def Monk wrote: I'm aware everyone knows the problems with POSs. It was more an attempt to get conversation rolling for alternatives and solutions in the meantime - this functionality currently acts as one and with it going away, brainstorming ideas seemed like a good idea. I wasn't looking for a medal. I was looking for input.
I'm quite aware capital PvP is not the only way to enjoy eve. In fact, I have nothing to do with it. My primary wspace experience is with about 5-10 other pilots in a C4, hunting people in our static C2. Unlike the larger groups using this to find capitals, we use it to avoid larger groups we can't deal with.
We do run people out of WHs. It's one of my favorite things to do - watch and learn their habits for a week or two before coming in to reinforce everything while they're logged off, and we enjoy the fights that ensue until we can loot the pinata.
We can't run anything higher than C4 sites. We're not large enough. As I said, I'm for this change. Carebears have a right to their playstyle, and people who dabble in different areas are fine as well. You say carebears annoy you? Well, tactless pricks who choose to pointlessly attack other's choices in how to enjoy themselves annoy me, and most other people who play eve. Go make assumptions elsewhere.
That was a mistake in how I formatted the post. Only the first couple lines were directed at you, the rest at the tear-jerkers. I already knew your stance. Sorry for the confusion. Ah. No problem then. Oops! o7 Well then, ignore all but my first paragraph as well. Heh. |
Qusal
Viperfleet Inc. Disavowed.
1
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 18:03:00 -
[507] - Quote
If this nerf goes through you should make wormhole capital PvE farming a little harder also, maybe double the escalation waves that would be nice 12 sleepers on 1st capital and 18 on 2nd capital. This will prevent from running sites in 5-10 minutes and would make them last atleast 20-25 and ofcourse make all sleepers scramble. This way once PvE+¬rs are found the PVPers have a chance to actually kill them. |
Kangaax
Money in da bank
59
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 18:12:00 -
[508] - Quote
Qusal wrote:If this nerf goes through you should make wormhole capital PvE farming a little harder also, maybe double the escalation waves that would be nice 12 sleepers on 1st capital and 18 on 2nd capital. This will prevent from running sites in 5-10 minutes and would make them last atleast 20-25 and ofcourse make all sleepers scramble. This way once PvE+¬rs are found the PVPers have a chance to actually kill them. That's a very good idea, but in this case they should also reduce the amount of blue loot generated by the guardians to make it even (double ships -> divide their loot by two).
PS: I completely agree with the change, sleepers don't use zkillboard. |
Bohneik Itohn
Periphery Bound
82
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 18:13:00 -
[509] - Quote
John Caldr wrote:Bohneik Itohn wrote: Seems legit... If they want that ISK, they can fight for it. If you want conflict in WH space, you can encourage it instead of just blatantly forcing it in situations where you yourself are taking very little risk.
I understand you have some dreams, but in reality carebears spotting WH PVP tickers just log off. Even if you'll attack the pos, you'll get nothing. Ships that cant be saved will be self-destructed, fit stripped. They dont care about anomalies - there always will be few next day. And we ourselves have plenty of places to farm with better efficiency and better comfort.
Dreams... Right...
There are 113 C6 WH's. Someone mentioned rolling holes 50-70 (really?) times a day looking for targets. RNG not withstanding that gives a decent chance of finding the same WH's every "few days". So if you and your corpmates are the only thing saving Eve from financial ruin it shouldn't be hard to make it a war of attrition in which the horrible carebears hardly ever get a chance to farm. Start taking notes about who the worst offenders are, and every time you roll into them clean them out, they'll find somewhere else to make their isk.
I like how you get to farm with efficiency and comfort, but the carebears are absolutely forbidden to do so because they won't fight a losing battle when you show up with a superior force. |
Citrute
Whale Girth Grand Sky Wizards
126
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Posted - 2014.05.07 18:23:00 -
[510] - Quote
I find it humorous how some k-space entities who's very existence is founded and maintained with superior metadata that is simply not available 'in game' in a form that can be leveraged in the same meaningful ways (including data derived from thousands of player API's) , are pitchforking for the removal of a small piece of API data that has very little relevance to them other than, 'i don't agree with your playstyle', 'foxfour said so' and, allegedly, 'muh farming' Im not even mad, GARPA, Goon metrics, opsec data tool #324. All those tools coalitions use are amazing, and extremely powerful. I wouldn't dare suggest we remove their ability to passively collect and compile massive amounts of metadata.
Login traps are not always ganks. Unlike most forms of pve, c5/c6 farming fleets are extremely capable of defending themselves. The last login trap i was involved in, where SSC were successfully able to put up a good fight and defend themselves because of their diligence with watch lists, immediately refitting, as well as having a small contingency of pilots/ships to defend themselves with... And maybe little because I was flying a revelation at the time, but I digress.
Other times, attempted/'failed' login traps turn into meaningful content, see: Lord's Servant's I tripped, fell, and accidentally burned a WH to the Ground
Poop socking with a hundred scout alts is not viable, Making wh space even safer is dumb. Surely there is a compromise to be found somewhere that can create meaningful gameplay/content. |
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