Which is exactly why I, and others, literally laugh out loud when the comment is "...we (upper echelon of GSF leadership) are "in it" for the betterment of the game itself..."

Because everyone knows the mantra "our enjoyment is to ruin others' enjoyment"

Literally

L.
O.
L.

I seriousily don't get this raving about 'instant perfect intel'. You know what NPC shows us? Activity. Yep thats it, theres no magic button which allows us to see what ships are in system, where the POS's are and stront levels etc. It helps us Wormholers effectively analyze a chain and think, don't forget we have already scanned the system in detail.

Which is exactly why I, and others, literally laugh out loud when the comment is "...we (upper echelon of GSF leadership) are "in it" for the betterment of the game itself..."

Because everyone knows the mantra "our enjoyment is to ruin others' enjoyment"

Literally

L.
O.
L.

"x number of NPCs have died in this system in the last hour/24 hours" is pretty good ******* intel that you can get in w-space without even getting into the system

Told you there would be tears,

I Am happy to see this data go away from the API. The 1st time I saw that this was a thing in ExCAM (wormhole mapping tool), I was like "Wow, this is epic. Now I can scan out a chain and then go spin in the POS or do some sites and just wait for the nice yellow light to show up in the ingame web broswer on my alt" No effort on my part was needed to go and find somebody to shoot it. But the poor dudes down the road had no idea.

Sure the info was also on dotlan and the likes, But it was not the same as a nice tool (and they are very good tools BTW - Nice work to the guys that build them) that auto refreshes every 2 seconds.

Some have said it help create content,. I Say bull5hit, It only helps Wormhole PVP Groups GANK!! It does not help them that don't have access to Siggy or ExCAM Webby. And it sure as hell don't help them that don't live in wormhole space but like to take trips into for a few days.

Should have happened sooner.

I seriousily don't get this raving about 'instant perfect intel'. You know what NPC shows us? Activity. Yep thats it, theres no magic button which allows us to see what ships are in system, where the POS's are and stront levels etc. It helps us Wormholers effectively analyze a chain and think if we will get any content from this chain, don't forget we have already scanned the system in detail.

"Hmmmm there are no kill recorded in the past 3 days in this chain apart from in one system but they look like they are AU TZ compared to our EU TZ, lets roll and find something else"

Thats what being able to see NPC AND PvP kills are used for. Its also the reason why we would be fine if they just delayed the API time to 3 hours, 6 hours whatever. As its the history not current status of the system that interests us (in the majority of cases).

The reason we're proposing this change: This is data that is available via the API but not in the client in any way. That goes directly against the design of the API and a core rule of it. We are aware that it has been like this for a while but need to make sure we are continuing to iterate on things, even old things, and bring them in line with expectations.

Please point to me where you don't even have to go into the system?

OK after reading this no wormhole resident can ever say anything about local giving instant intel in 0.0 i'll most definatly refer them to this post.

On a side note take away the information from the api key and remove the system id's too just to be spiteful or let it assign a new id each time you jump into a system that way they really won't know where they are.

your entire garbage post does not distinguish between "data not provided by the client ever" and "data that people prefer to have provided out of game for analysis by a third party tool"

the first is what is being eliminated, the second is what the api is for

This is information that you guys using software outside the game get a huge advantage over those who do not

Please point to me where you don't even have to go into the system? Also how is that good intel? All it tells you is that the system is active, you don't know anything else other than that. And even then it can be wrong.

Is this how the API was meant to be used? Probably not.

"x number of NPCs have died in this system in the last hour/24 hours" is pretty good ******* intel that you can get in w-space without even getting into the system

so clearly we have a hidden agenda that we're discussing in illuminati, sneering about how we're pulling the wool over everyone's heads

please tell us your crackpot theory about our hidden agenda

I live in a C3/U210 and connect to lowsec and nullsec regularly. nullsec roams which focus on finding and killing carebears use starmap data, which it appears is generated by the API. Third-party tools such as GARPA's trawl API information to generate hotspot activity of ratting, jumps, people in space, etc.

On DOTLAN you can use your IGB to browse jump density records for nullsec systems, and ratting patterns, to determine when people are likely to be moving through various areas, to plan gate camps, roams, logoff traps for ratters or miners in ore anomalies, etc. Is this what you intended for the star map?

If the API is not intended for the purpose of PVPing, or generating kill data, or allowing people to find other people, then you must logically remove API kill logs, jumps and so on from k-space as well, and nobble the star map of its usefulness.

The fact is, on the one hand, k-space gets free intel which allows people to find one another for the purposes of sandboxing and creating the M's in MMO. On the other hand, w-space is not going to get it, just because "it's from the API"?

As immersion-breaking as free intel may be, the fact is, if no one had local, and everyone stayed cloaked all the time in EVE, it would be a terribly boring game. W-space relies on the API kill logs to at least give people the whiff of someone else being online around the same time of day, within the past 48 hours, to get people into a system for more than 5 minutes.

I think you should consider that it is inherently unfair, illogical and baseless to remove something from w-space, yet maintain it in k-space, under your logic.

Sure, this won't kill w-space. I'm immune to it, because I've got a U210 and can shoost fools in brosec. But it will

Perhaps you should try and not be insulting in a discussion thread. It's no secret that this is, and has been the MO for SA/GSF since it's inception. Name calling doesn't change that pretty well documented fact.

If you've not actually been in that system (i.e. scouting it out) that info quite literally IS useless because you have no way of knowing that you'll hit that system.

Please point to me where you don't even have to go into the system? Also how is that good intel? All it tells you is that the system is active, you don't know anything else other than that. And even then it can be wrong.

I am dumbfounded by this whole topic. It seems to me that the majority of posters here are neglecting the primary reason people pvp in WH space. Its not because its made easy by 3rd party tools utilizing api data that is not available in game. It's the pure joy of the hunt. That moment when two WH entities just happen to come across each other, mount up their forces and meet in glorious battle on the field.

Personally this data will have no effect on the way I live and explore in WH space. And with what I see being posted here, I hope it does go away to make 'carebears' more comfortable coming into WH space giving rage rollers a higher chance at more targets.

It's a game. Adapt or quit, it's really that simple.

no really you are suggesting that we have some sort of hidden agenda in supporting this change

tell us what you think this agenda is, i need a good laugh