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Mather Maelstrom
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Posted - 2006.05.24 21:14:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Mather Maelstrom on 24/05/2006 21:15:14
What amazes me is that as soon as the blaster changes were mentioned everyone said that it wouldn't help the Deimos one bit, but still they went on with these changes.
One would assume the many pages long suggestions about boosting the Deimos PG and/ or speed + tank would actually be considered and tried out first.
I feel sad 
//No Pro Gallente RP, no Coreli & Cyrene anymore\\ |
Gariuys
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Posted - 2006.05.24 21:16:00 -
[32]
 Originally by: Mather Maelstrom
Edited by: Mather Maelstrom on 24/05/2006 21:15:14
What amazes me is that as soon as the blaster changes were mentioned everyone said that it wouldn't help the Deimos one bit, but still they went on with these changes.
One would assume the many pages long suggestions about boosting the Deimos PG and/ or speed + tank would actually be considered and tried out first.
I feel sad
the changes where needed for the battleship lvl mainly. Not for the deimos.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Weirda
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Posted - 2006.05.24 21:36:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Gronsak
Originally by: Sarmaul
does anyone have a deimos setup that doesn't get slapped about by an automuninn or vaga yet?
ive taken out auto muninn in a thorax before and no he was not a noob, infact he was a -10 pirate supposidly hunting me,
also taken out a few deimos with a thorax
weirda have found that most 'pirate' with -10 actually suck worse then the ones with + whatever... since most of their time spent ganking noob in empire rather then fighting pvpers. the fact that the dude even try to have 'win' hac even more to it.
this is not question at all that it wasn't a great kill - just reflecting on that lately. since started killing -10 pirate in empire (for a break) have had personal kill ration go to 10+:1 where it was much more  in 0.0...
Quote:
deimos sucks
it does need grid boost. weirda don't fly it - but that much seem obvious.
would love to fight you t2 thorax with weirda rupture sometime though. sisi or tq... this no smack - just want to get in on it! 
__
NOS
AS
WCS Idea #223579 |
McCool
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Posted - 2006.05.24 22:10:00 -
[34]
Edited by: McCool on 24/05/2006 22:11:03
Edited by: McCool on 24/05/2006 22:10:34
Originally by: Weirda
weirda have found that most 'pirate' with -10 actually suck worse then the ones with + whatever... since most of their time spent ganking noob in empire rather then fighting pvpers. the fact that the dude even try to have 'win' hac even more to it.
this is not question at all that it wasn't a great kill - just reflecting on that lately. since started killing -10 pirate in empire (for a break) have had personal kill ration go to 10+:1 where it was much more in 0.0...
not sure about other pirates but i dont fit my pirate ships with any normal setups. mostly cause i have to fit 3-4+ warp scrambling strenght and cause i dont try to kill anything that dont goes boom just by looking at it.
i would guess that a deimos without web and being tracking disrupt = byebye.
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Dash Ripcock
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Posted - 2006.05.24 22:43:00 -
[35]
Quote:
K so now the deimos pwns again
Umm, not quite. She's still just as slow and due to crippled fitting can't fit Neutrons power-grid changes or not. Try again.
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Hey You
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Posted - 2006.05.25 00:58:00 -
[36]
Am I the only one who immediately thought of Dash when you saw this topic?
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Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2006.05.25 01:09:00 -
[37]
Originally by: KilROCK
Originally by: Soros
Originally by: KilROCK
Pfft my arty muninn got 2 multispec and 20km. Eat **** deimos
You are amazing but ... could you kill the deimos before they just mwd'd away and warped ?
Put your words where your guns are and try it out on test 
I don't play Counter-strike EVE.
Flavor of the month term for the most flavor of the month poster. Why don't you get your hyperbolic, condescending arse on test and put your money where your mouth is. You usually just say X sucks when obviously you live in your own world in TQ where nothing but what you fit is good and if you can't fit it or fly it then its terrible.
Test is a way to test balance. If you go there to do such things then it is no more counter-strike, which is a horrible analogy btw, than doom is shoots and ladders. Ruptures are beating deimos on SiSi in a controlled environment that may or may not ever happen on TQ and it servers the fuction of balance. However, if a rupture can do it beat a Deimos on SiSi at its own game then the rupture can surely take the Deimos's place in many cases, not all, on TQ.
Originally by: "Oveur"
I don't react to threats any better than you do
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Harper04
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Posted - 2006.05.25 01:17:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Harper04 on 25/05/2006 01:17:23
Originally by: LUKEC
Edited by: LUKEC on 24/05/2006 19:33:49
Originally by: slothe
Edited by: slothe on 24/05/2006 19:19:50
although i dont like using rcus....
5 ion t2 (null)
diminishing med nos
named mwd
true sansha / dark blood scrambler (10km)
e5 prototype web
true sansha med armour rep
400mm tungsten plate
corpum explosive passive hardner (gives up to 55% passive)
dark blood / true sansha energised adaptive nano (24% or thereabouts to all)
true sansha / dark blood cpr (25%)
t2 rcu
minimum resist (expl) is 68% going up to 80% em.
yeah its expensive but it kicks ass :)
n.b. this wouldnt fit before the changes. i now can fit a medium nos as oppossed to a small. can tinker and i guess could fit bigger guns / plate with small nos.
You know what is sad about this setup:
1. ishtar with 2x wcs fitted will chew you for breakfast... rest t1-t2 stuff
2. f-aga with 2x wcs will chew you, guy doesn't even have to bother with staying out of range, he just loads hail and waits
3. any bs with 2x heavy nosf + t2 MED drones will pop you, oh wait, even if he has 1x med neut, you will die.
4. zealot, suckri, beagle, cerb will wtfpwn you.
so what exactly is the benefit of it over thorax? Oh you can kill artymunin with it, but that you can do in rax too.
Oh, and don't get me wrong here, there is nothing wrong with setup of your. You invested lot in it, but problem is that the ship and the entire concept sucks.
I beg to differ on the vaga beating a deimos WITHOUT staying out of it's range...tested many times against a very highly skilled corpm8 with just about every setup imaginable, and haven't lost. Then again, I also have almost maxed skills in medium blasters/drones and am extremely gallente spec'd. Against a shield tank the vaga lasts a bit, but will be in structure before I get deep into armor, and armor tanks are laughable at best. I almost popped my m8's vaga in a matter of seconds once I hit his armor tank setup he tried, scared both of us   Vaga that stays out of range and pops my drones will win though.
Zealot is a close fight, and largely depends on the range and how close you can get before the web slows you down and he starts AB'ing away. Null ammo is a must.
Ishtar...just run away.
BS with nos...see above about running away.
Haven't tried against a suckri, beagles hurt, cerb I haven't tested against.
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KilROCK
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Posted - 2006.05.25 01:29:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
Originally by: KilROCK
Originally by: Soros
Originally by: KilROCK
Pfft my arty muninn got 2 multispec and 20km. Eat **** deimos
You are amazing but ... could you kill the deimos before they just mwd'd away and warped ?
Put your words where your guns are and try it out on test
I don't play Counter-strike EVE.
Flavor of the month term for the most flavor of the month poster. Why don't you get your hyperbolic, condescending arse on test and put your money where your mouth is. You usually just say X sucks when obviously you live in your own world in TQ where nothing but what you fit is good and if you can't fit it or fly it then its terrible.
Test is a way to test balance. If you go there to do such things then it is no more counter-strike, which is a horrible analogy btw, than doom is shoots and ladders. Ruptures are beating deimos on SiSi in a controlled environment that may or may not ever happen on TQ and it servers the fuction of balance. However, if a rupture can do it beat a Deimos on SiSi at its own game then the rupture can surely take the Deimos's place in many cases, not all, on TQ.
I'll just reply  . Since the flavor of the 'month' term is barely used, by me only as far as i've seen.
Soros just challenged me to a 1vs1 with a muninn with 2 multi VS his deimos. I can't be arsed to make a copy of my current EVE client, patch it just to prove a point.
Test server is horrible, and hmm. Korama looks fine uh. Mission running Kaylana 
Bet you love having Test server around to reinforce your lacking pvp experience.
Petwraith ♥ me. I make sigs |
Weirda
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Posted - 2006.05.25 02:30:00 -
[40]
Originally by: McCool
not sure about other pirates but i dont fit my pirate ships with any normal setups. mostly cause i have to fit 3-4+ warp scrambling strenght and cause i dont try to kill anything that dont goes boom just by looking at it.
i would guess that a deimos without web and being tracking disrupt = byebye.
have tried to reread this few time - and am pretty sure that you proving weirda point. many (not all obviously) -10 pirate have gotten to the point where they have little actual combat experience anymore. sad kindof - weirda think this to be the 'ginger magician syndrom'.
Originally by: Harper04
I beg to differ on the vaga beating a deimos WITHOUT staying out of it's range...tested many times against a very highly skilled corpm8 with just about every setup imaginable, and haven't lost. Then again, I also have almost maxed skills in medium blasters/drones and am extremely gallente spec'd.
that have been opposite of weirda experience actually. have had one (good) 1v1, and one 1v2 (weirda vs. demios and stiletto) and was very one sided both times. in neither case did weirda even attempt to go out of web range... as a matter of fact, love to charge target in vagabond (which tend to be why lost so many to BS, or bait/switch mobs)
still hope grosnak revisit this thread though - would really love to meet him on TQ for a little Rupture vs Thorax fun.
back on topic to deimos though - it really seem that more then anything else, that is a great support fire ship in a wolfpack and lay down satanic damage if set up as such, the ishtar is much more suited to solopwnage iwho due to its range and ew options. ishtar great in group as well though, but find that deimos is quicker to bring massive damage to a target.
guess they all better in some role or another. still dreaming to go hunting w/arti-muninn and huginn tbh though - that seem just sick!
__
NOS
AS
WCS Idea #223579 |
Del Girl
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Posted - 2006.05.25 03:04:00 -
[41]
Only improvement I see with my deimos is a 20mil saving on it's fitting. I can now fit a tech2 explosive hardner instead of the 20cpu faction one.
The reduced cap use will probably come in usefull. Haven't fought anyone since patch so can't say exactly the impact it has but in the past the cap wasn't such a problem. You usually have enough to kill/tank a target. Hell, if you come accross a BS with nosferatus I don't think it matters much how much cap you got or what HAC you're in for that matter... except the damn vaga I guess.
Overall, it's probably safe to say that this change brings nothing. It's still a very iffy HAC but can put the hurting on a whole variety of targets (smaller and larger) if you choose not to be an idiot.
And regarding setups a combination of energized adaptive/explosive hardner/good named damage control puts up a pretty neat tank. Throw in the pwn drones (ecm hehe) and it's not so bad.
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HatePeace LoveWar
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Posted - 2006.05.26 03:48:00 -
[42]
Edited by: HatePeace LoveWar on 26/05/2006 03:47:43
Did this fit pre patch? o.O
(not including faction mods).
Carrier & Fighter Sales |
Raven DeBlade
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Posted - 2006.05.26 03:57:00 -
[43]
Zealot and Vagabond still pwns any HAC... then the Deimos and Cerb, Ishtar and Muninn, last comes Eagle by far... exept it can *snipe* a frig... very balanced
signature removed, height restriction applies email the mods for more info - Vanamonde
"To hunt pirates you need time and patience, because even monkeys fall from the trees"
"Any statements made above this line are my persona" |
Meridius
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Posted - 2006.05.26 04:17:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Deathbarrage
deimos still sux (btw you could actually fit this before the changes) and a zealot pilot would eat this deimos alive
And an Ishtar would eat a Zealot alive.
So you want 2 ships that can *****a Zealot? Cry me a river
-
_____
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Hllaxiu
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Posted - 2006.05.26 04:32:00 -
[45]
Originally by: KilROCK
Soros just challenged me to a 1vs1 with a muninn with 2 multi VS his deimos. I can't be arsed to make a copy of my current EVE client, patch it just to prove a point.
Last I saw the test server was on the same version as TQ, so thats not an excuse. 
---
Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
KilROCK
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Posted - 2006.05.26 04:33:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Hllaxiu
Originally by: KilROCK
Soros just challenged me to a 1vs1 with a muninn with 2 multi VS his deimos. I can't be arsed to make a copy of my current EVE client, patch it just to prove a point.
Last I saw the test server was on the same version as TQ, so thats not an excuse.
Might not be an excuse for the lazyness, but i still don't care about it
Petwraith ♥ me. I make sigs |
PASTOR TROY
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Posted - 2006.05.26 04:39:00 -
[47]
 Im going back to thorax's. You win CCP.
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Sadist
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Posted - 2006.05.26 05:11:00 -
[48]
Deimos still blows, thanks to overpowered EW, underpowered close range combat, gimped damage types, vulnerability to NoS, web.
Uuuh, yea, I think that's enough reasons...
---------------
VIP member of the [23]
Quote:
- Numbers alone do not win a battle
- No, but I bet they help.
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W'Lupus
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Posted - 2006.05.26 05:58:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Meridius
Originally by: Deathbarrage
deimos still sux (btw you could actually fit this before the changes) and a zealot pilot would eat this deimos alive
And an Ishtar would eat a Zealot alive.
So you want 2 ships that can *****a Zealot? Cry me a river
listen to meri, he does have a point
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El Yatta
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Posted - 2006.05.26 07:46:00 -
[50]
Originally by: W'Lupus
Originally by: Meridius
Originally by: Deathbarrage
deimos still sux (btw you could actually fit this before the changes) and a zealot pilot would eat this deimos alive
And an Ishtar would eat a Zealot alive.
So you want 2 ships that can *****a Zealot? Cry me a river
listen to meri, he does have a point
What? No he doesn't. Its stupid to say that a ship that is totally gimped, should not be balanced to be able to fulfull its intended role (a useful blaster boat, not just "kill all zealots", before you quote that out of context), just because the other ship on the same skill is good. Its totally stupid. Why on earth would we bother trying to get the Typhoon and the Hawk (and the Sacrelidge, meridius!) boosted, when after all, there's the harpy, tempest and Zealot on the same skill? I mean, its not like it'd be a good thing if all the ships were actually useful, and balanced?
Don't spout crap like that again - if you think the Zealot would be underpowered against a fixed deimos (I dont,tbh, considering how much its tank has improved since RMR, while maintaining formidable damage (conflag will melt a deimos tank, no matter what numbers you spout)), then start a thread to get it a slight improvement! (Drone bay, perhaps, or increase the range bonus a little?)
---:::---
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Eyeshadow
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Posted - 2006.05.26 08:55:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Meridius
Originally by: Deathbarrage
deimos still sux (btw you could actually fit this before the changes) and a zealot pilot would eat this deimos alive
And an Ishtar would eat a Zealot alive.
So you want 2 ships that can *****a Zealot? Cry me a river
Ishtar can nuke any HAC 1on1, cept maybe a nanogheyabond, so yes i think its fair that we have another ship thats good
My Latest Vid (18/04/06) |
Alasse Cuthalion
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Posted - 2006.05.26 09:14:00 -
[52]
Well, that was a completely pointless buff wasn't it?
It is possible to fit a full of heavy neutron II's, a med rep and an mwd but you need...
a) Faction rep & mwd with lower base pg
b) So many rcu's you can't fit any damage mods and one less hardener
... which results in a Deimos that tanks worse and does less dps than an Ion blaster deimos.
Good job CCP, way to make a pointless change!
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Alasse Cuthalion
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Posted - 2006.05.26 09:18:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Gariuys
Originally by: Mather Maelstrom
Edited by: Mather Maelstrom on 24/05/2006 21:15:14
What amazes me is that as soon as the blaster changes were mentioned everyone said that it wouldn't help the Deimos one bit, but still they went on with these changes.
One would assume the many pages long suggestions about boosting the Deimos PG and/ or speed + tank would actually be considered and tried out first.
I feel sad
the changes where needed for the battleship lvl mainly. Not for the deimos.
You're saying the Domi/Mega had trouble fitting Heavy Neutron blasters? Remember they're the ones that got a PG reduction... NUH-UH!
Lets face it, it's not like the Astarte had many issues fitting 7x Neutron II's, mwd, cap injector and a med rep :o So why else would they reduce the PG if not to try and boost the Deimos?
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Gronsak
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Posted - 2006.05.26 10:08:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Gronsak on 26/05/2006 10:10:56
Originally by: Eyeshadow
Ishtar can nuke any HAC 1on1, cept maybe a nanogheyabond, so yes i think its fair that we have another ship thats good
yes but what does an ishtar have over a domi? the reason i ask is becase having an ishtar doesnt mean galante got a good hac if the domi is better than the ishtar in everyway that matters
i mean deimos got like 40x the tracking or something like that, its faster ect, domi/ishtar both use same drones so no tracking advantage. domi can tank better [80% res on all dmg types and large rep + med rep]
pro domi:
 4x large nos to hurt target
very cheap [probably get 7x domi for 1 ishtar]
better tank
pro ishtar:
lower sig, faster speed [if ur fighting anyone with decent pvp experience they will web u and that lower sig will not count for much]
higher scan res
dont see an ishtar doing better than a domi in any situation bar fighting people who dont know how to pvp, and raven users |
Gronsak
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Posted - 2006.05.26 10:09:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Alasse Cuthalion
the changes where needed for the battleship lvl mainly. Not for the deimos.
You're saying the Domi/Mega had trouble fitting Heavy Neutron blasters? Remember they're the ones that got a PG reduction... NUH-UH!
ONLY PG FOR heavy neutrons where reduced [ie the medium blaster called neutron] no other blaster PG was touched
-------------------Sig-----------------------
welcome to eve, a game for the unemployed, the t2 bpo winners, GTC sellers, macro miners and agent *****s |
Alicia Ironbow
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Posted - 2006.05.26 11:00:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Alicia Ironbow on 26/05/2006 11:01:06
.
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Gariuys
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Posted - 2006.05.26 11:23:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Gronsak
Originally by: Alasse Cuthalion
Originally by: Gariuys
the changes where needed for the battleship lvl mainly. Not for the deimos.
You're saying the Domi/Mega had trouble fitting Heavy Neutron blasters? Remember they're the ones that got a PG reduction... NUH-UH!
ONLY PG FOR heavy neutrons where reduced [ie the medium blaster called neutron] no other blaster PG was touched
She knows, that was the whole point of her post. So you're a bit quick on the flame.
CPU and cap use reduction where most badly needed on the battleship lvl. Deimos benefits, but not by much ( yet ) The grid change on heavy neutron didn't benefit anyone safe from having even more free grid on the astarte. Deimos has trouble running ions, so unless neutrons take less grid then ions, it didn't benefit.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
wierchas noobhunter
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Posted - 2006.05.26 11:30:00 -
[58]
Edited by: wierchas noobhunter on 26/05/2006 11:31:13
Originally by: Gronsak
Originally by: Alasse Cuthalion
the changes where needed for the battleship lvl mainly. Not for the deimos.
You're saying the Domi/Mega had trouble fitting Heavy Neutron blasters? Remember they're the ones that got a PG reduction... NUH-UH!
well on deimos is hard to fit even ions so i was waiting to pg reduction for all blasters tbh
or atleast pg boost on deimos
join soar angelic! or at least |
dutchfighter
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Posted - 2006.05.26 11:57:00 -
[59]
well seems like i am about the only one, but i love my deimos. Just gotta pick your target.
I think it's the most effective hac against other cruisers. Can easily take any frig sized ship and with it's insane dps it easily takes out a BC. Nice to support on BS's in a squad with it's damage and ability to quickly speed up to target and scramble.
Tank isn't great, but in my eyes it's mainly a hit and run ship. It's not built for longer engagements.
And why does everybody wanna fit ions?? electrons only have 5% less dps, but better tracking for the frigs. with null i still get 10km range if you take fall-off into consideration aswell.
with void i get 512 dps on the 5 electrons. i get into a ferox his structure when he enters my armor. usually only have to run the armor repper once after the fight. Yes the ferox's are fitted T2. (this happened 3 times now with 3 different ferox pilots)
from combat analyzer it shows that the average cruiser takes 14 seconds to kill. So i don't turn around for a cruiser squad either.
just my 10 cents on the topic.
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LWMaverick
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Posted - 2006.05.26 11:57:00 -
[60]
Originally by: KilROCK
Edited by: KilROCK on 25/05/2006 01:36:54
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
Originally by: KilROCK
Originally by: Soros
Originally by: KilROCK
Pfft my arty muninn got 2 multispec and 20km. Eat **** deimos
You are amazing but ... could you kill the deimos before they just mwd'd away and warped ?
Put your words where your guns are and try it out on test
I don't play Counter-strike EVE.
Flavor of the month term for the most flavor of the month poster. Why don't you get your hyperbolic, condescending arse on test and put your money where your mouth is. You usually just say X sucks when obviously you live in your own world in TQ where nothing but what you fit is good and if you can't fit it or fly it then its terrible.
Test is a way to test balance. If you go there to do such things then it is no more counter-strike, which is a horrible analogy btw, than doom is shoots and ladders. Ruptures are beating deimos on SiSi in a controlled environment that may or may not ever happen on TQ and it servers the fuction of balance. However, if a rupture can do it beat a Deimos on SiSi at its own game then the rupture can surely take the Deimos's place in many cases, not all, on TQ.
I'll just reply . Since the flavor of the 'month' term is barely used, by me only as far as i've seen.
Soros just challenged me to a 1vs1 with a muninn with 2 multi VS his deimos. I can't be arsed to make a copy of my current EVE client, patch it just to prove a point.
Test server is horrible. I don't need to test anything in hope to rebalance stuff. I know what beats X with Y. I don't need to go on FFA and have my vagabond chased off by a QUAD beam Armageddon with nano, mwd and nosses. Get shot and nossed by a small gun apoc to the point i just eject from my ship to get a new one.
I don't need to go on test server and try different setup to challenge other ships to come up with some whining that a ship is imbalanced.
Hell, With the current crappy way Test server works, anyone can have full high grade set of everything, have the best modules and own eachother all they want. I stopped seeing SISI as a place to test crap, It's mostly a place for people to ***** down crap when they're bored out of staying in their stations, npcing, miners or just people that just want to 'counter-strike' eve up.
Bet you love having Test server around to reinforce your lacking pvp experience.
I agree with some of you're points.. but there are alot of people on the test server too, who are willing to do a 1o1 outside ffa..
The only time i go to ffa, is when im pretty damn bored.
And that last thing you said.. The answer is yes.
Yes, i am glad that i have the test server, so i can screw around a bit, test some setups vs. all different kinds of ships, discuss setups with people and all in all, in a relaxed enviorement -> i dont have to worry about loosing stuff... (go play wow \0/zorz..)
Its pretty much the same thing, as testing you're new setups on a corp mate or likely, but here i've got all the stuff i need, at the same station, instead of flying from station to station and region to region on the tq, to collect it.
Oh.. And not everyone is vber rich.. I cant afford to think out of the box with a brand new ishtar, simply because i cant be arsed to carebear all the time.
/Mav
Spirits in the night! ALLLLL NIGHT!!! |
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