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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
341
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Posted - 2014.05.09 17:15:00 -
[61] - Quote
I'm pretty ticked off that I wasted 10d x6 training a skill to 5 that I didn't need and is now being removed from the game.
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
9671
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Posted - 2014.05.09 17:18:00 -
[62] - Quote
That's fine but stop liking my posts, they were wrong. "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
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Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
341
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Posted - 2014.05.09 17:19:00 -
[63] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:stop liking my posts never |
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Panhandle Industries Order of the Exalted
530
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Posted - 2014.05.09 17:24:00 -
[64] - Quote
Tippia wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:No, only those that trained one skill. The other skill is being removed. The two old skills are being replaced by three new ones. Your old levels decide what you'll have in the new skills. If you haven't trained anything, you don't get anything. This makes it completely unlike the learning skill case. Yes it is. No SP is lost. No training time is lost. At worst (if you have trained nothing) you come out the same as before. In all other cases, your old SP is transformed into new SP GÇö in every case more than you had before. I understand that you are horribly upset that some will gain more than others, but attempting to paint it as them giving out abilities to everyone is unintelligent and dishonest. Quote:It's not 1:1 though and that's the part GǪif you've trained one or more of the old skills, and that's what makes it a good deal for everyone involved. The drone skills are being replaced, but as long as you have a higher level in scout drone operation, combat drone skill level does not matter. Essentially if I begin training combat drones 4 and 5 now, that training is completely wasted and I can't get it back. New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
21628
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Posted - 2014.05.09 17:29:00 -
[65] - Quote
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:Essentially if I begin training combat drones 4 and 5 now, that training is completely wasted and I can't get it back. It's only wasted if you don't make use of the skills. That has nothing to do with the skill change. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Panhandle Industries Order of the Exalted
531
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Posted - 2014.05.09 17:31:00 -
[66] - Quote
I apologize I missed page three when posting. (the only page in this thread with useful info).
Perhaps you can clarify this then. I believe you linked this chart.
http://eve.beyondreality.se/pics/Kronos/DroneSkillTransition.png
I currently have scout drone operation 5, and combat drone operation 3. What benefit do I get from training combat drone operation 5 prior to the skill changes? New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
21628
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Posted - 2014.05.09 17:33:00 -
[67] - Quote
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:I currently have scout drone operation 5, and combat drone operation 3. What benefit do I get from training combat drone operation 5 prior to the skill changes? You get the damage bonuses sooner. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Panhandle Industries Order of the Exalted
531
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Posted - 2014.05.09 17:36:00 -
[68] - Quote
So you're saying that 10 days of training (rough estimate, I don't have a way to see actual times on me right now) is worth getting damage bonuses sooner? Why should someone with that skill at five end up with the same abilities as someone with it untrained? New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á |
Malcanis
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
15406
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Posted - 2014.05.09 17:36:00 -
[69] - Quote
Money Makin Mitch wrote:I'm pretty ticked off that I wasted 10d x6 training a skill to 5 that I didn't need and is now being removed from the game.
I trained that skill abut 6 years ago. It was worth it for me then, and it was worth it for you when you trained it. "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!" |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
21628
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Posted - 2014.05.09 17:37:00 -
[70] - Quote
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:So you're saying that 10 days of training (rough estimate, I don't have a way to see actual times on me right now) is worth getting damage bonuses sooner? That's for you to decide based on how much time you spend fielding the smaller drones and how much you need that extra damage. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
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SpoonRECKLESS
LOGI R Us
187
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Posted - 2014.05.09 17:42:00 -
[71] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Karen Avioras wrote:But they are splitting it. Pretty sure you will be gaining SP if anything. They're not splitting it. They're removing it. Whether I gain or lose SP is meaningless.
Just have the skills require to get the new ones to 5 easy peasy. Blue
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BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Panhandle Industries Order of the Exalted
531
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Posted - 2014.05.09 17:42:00 -
[72] - Quote
Tippia wrote:BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:So you're saying that 10 days of training (rough estimate, I don't have a way to see actual times on me right now) is worth getting damage bonuses sooner? That's for you to decide based on how much time you spend fielding the smaller drones and how much you need that extra damage. Tippia, I usually like your posts, but I really feel you're being purposely obtuse here. Please answer the part of my previous post that you omitted.
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote: Why should someone with that skill at five end up with the same abilities as someone with it untrained? New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
21628
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Posted - 2014.05.09 17:50:00 -
[73] - Quote
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:I really feel you're being purposely obtuse here. Please answer the part of my previous post that you omitted. BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote: Why should someone with that skill at five end up with the same abilities as someone with it untrained? Because it's the best solution to untying the knot of the current drone skill madness. Giving people minute extra abilities for the time they've spent is a better solution than taking them away.
This has already been answered, by the way GÇö not just in this case but in every case where old skills have been replaced by new ones. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Panhandle Industries Order of the Exalted
531
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Posted - 2014.05.09 18:07:00 -
[74] - Quote
Tippia wrote:BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:I really feel you're being purposely obtuse here. Please answer the part of my previous post that you omitted. BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote: Why should someone with that skill at five end up with the same abilities as someone with it untrained? Because it's the best solution to untying the knot of the current drone skill madness. Giving people minute extra abilities for the time they've spent is a better solution than taking them away. This has already been answered, by the way GÇö not just in this case but in every case where old skills have been replaced by new ones. Hm, I still don't like it but this is the first response in this thread that actually makes sense. Thank you. New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á |
Lena Lazair
Khanid Irregulars
123
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Posted - 2014.05.09 18:16:00 -
[75] - Quote
Medalyn Isis wrote:I'll use the below as an example as to why the skill is effectively being removed.
If you currently have: Combat Drone Operation V + Scout Drone Operation V you will get: Drone Avionics V + Light Drone Operation V + Medium Drone Operation V
If you currently have: Combat Drone Operation 0 + Scout Drone Operation V you will get: Drone Avionics V + Light Drone Operation V + Medium Drone Operation V
...
In all those examples, the combat drone skill is irrelevant and effectively being removed from the game.
You can replace Combat Drone Operation 0 to V with Scout Drone Operation 0 to V in the exact same chart and suddenly we've shown that the Scout Drone Operation skill is also effectively being removed from the game. So I guess if both SDO and CDO are being removed from the game, everyone should just get LDO and MDO at level V whether or not they have any training at all in SDO and CDO, right?
Oh wait, NO. |
Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
341
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Posted - 2014.05.09 18:26:00 -
[76] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Money Makin Mitch wrote:I'm pretty ticked off that I wasted 10d x6 training a skill to 5 that I didn't need and is now being removed from the game.
I trained that skill abut 6 years ago. It was worth it for me then, and it was worth it for you when you trained it. I only trained it b/c of the devblog, and I only trained it in the last few weeks.
Was not worth it at all. |
Organic Lager
Devils Diciples League of Infamy
47
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Posted - 2014.05.09 18:39:00 -
[77] - Quote
This is super dumb.... Or i'm miss understanding something.
Scout drone op Training time 1x Pre req drones 1
Fully trained to 5 will give level 5 in the 3 new skills
Combat drone op Training time 2x Pre req drones 3
Fully trained to 5 will grant level 5 in 2 of the new skills and 0 in the third
Who the hell though this was a fair and balanced idea? |
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Panhandle Industries Order of the Exalted
533
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Posted - 2014.05.09 19:06:00 -
[78] - Quote
Lena Lazair wrote:Medalyn Isis wrote:I'll use the below as an example as to why the skill is effectively being removed.
If you currently have: Combat Drone Operation V + Scout Drone Operation V you will get: Drone Avionics V + Light Drone Operation V + Medium Drone Operation V
If you currently have: Combat Drone Operation 0 + Scout Drone Operation V you will get: Drone Avionics V + Light Drone Operation V + Medium Drone Operation V
...
In all those examples, the combat drone skill is irrelevant and effectively being removed from the game. You can replace Combat Drone Operation 0 to V with Scout Drone Operation 0 to V in the exact same chart and suddenly we've shown that the Scout Drone Operation skill is also effectively being removed from the game. So I guess if both SDO and CDO are being removed from the game, everyone should just get LDO and MDO at level V whether or not they have any training at all in SDO and CDO, right? Oh wait, NO. Actually currently having combat drones 5 and scout drone operation untrained results in drone avonics 0. Tippia linked a chart that explains this on page 3. New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1148
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Posted - 2014.05.09 19:21:00 -
[79] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Money Makin Mitch wrote:I'm pretty ticked off that I wasted 10d x6 training a skill to 5 that I didn't need and is now being removed from the game.
I trained that skill abut 6 years ago. It was worth it for me then, and it was worth it for you when you trained it. Dunno if that's going to be the case really for anyone who didn't have it prior to the blog. 7 days is a notable chunk of 2 months and has a rather significant determination over what can be trained in that time. Any efficient training plan would probably forgo training level V at the time the clarification was posted.
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Medalyn Isis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
203
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Posted - 2014.05.09 20:54:00 -
[80] - Quote
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:I apologize I missed page three when posting. (the only page in this thread with useful info).
Perhaps you can clarify this then. I have updated the OP with the exact quote from Fozzie at it seems people are having difficulty in understanding the OP and change fully. It is a little complicated and unusual transitional arrangement. But hopefully it should be clear now.
CCP Fozzie wrote:Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.
As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.
The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2. |
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Radelix Cisko
JUMP DRIVE ACTIVE
162
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Posted - 2014.05.09 21:29:00 -
[81] - Quote
I can only dream that all these drone threads get combined into one threadnought that can be banished into a fiery cesspit. CDO to V is a ~11 day (I will grant you per account) skill in a game that has 22 years worth of training to do. I did train it my first year and it has served me well. Seriously though we are getting more SP from the skills that are replacing it, your precious SP number will go up post patch and your drones will work just fine.
TL;DR Shut up, drones will work the and we get more SP, CCP is fixing skills to be more coherent. Despite my posting prowess I really am terrible at this game
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Medalyn Isis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
203
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Posted - 2014.05.10 08:09:00 -
[82] - Quote
Radelix Cisko wrote:Seriously though we are getting more SP from the skills that are replacing it, your precious SP number will go up post patch and your drones will work just fine. Why are you fixated on increasing SP numbers. If anything that is a nerf as clone costs increase as a result. No one has been arguing for more SP, just a more fair method of skill transition.
I'll actually benefit myself from this new method on most of my characters as they don't have combat drone operation trained to a high level if at all. So you are swinging in the dark there a bit with your last comment. |
Xasnevian
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
27
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Posted - 2014.05.10 08:28:00 -
[83] - Quote
I think there could be a fairer way to handle this than the one proposed by CCP. |
Riyria Twinpeaks
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
1905
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Posted - 2014.05.10 08:35:00 -
[84] - Quote
Money Makin Mitch wrote:Malcanis wrote:Money Makin Mitch wrote:I'm pretty ticked off that I wasted 10d x6 training a skill to 5 that I didn't need and is now being removed from the game.
I trained that skill abut 6 years ago. It was worth it for me then, and it was worth it for you when you trained it. I only trained it b/c of the devblog, and I only trained it in the last few weeks. Was not worth it at all.
So you were training a skill you don't need, because a devblog about upcoming changes, which weren't final yet, told you you'd get extra SP then in skills you apparently don't need.
I guess it was your decision to train something you don't need.
Or maybe I'm misunderstanding something here? |
Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
342
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Posted - 2014.05.10 09:29:00 -
[85] - Quote
Riyria Twinpeaks wrote:So you were training a skill you don't need, because a devblog about upcoming changes, which weren't final yet, told you you'd get extra SP then in skills you apparently don't need. I guess it was your decision to train something you don't need. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding something here? are you daft? i don't need the skill because CCP is removing the skill entirely. having sdo 5 is enough. why would i train a skill being removed other than because CCP told me i needed to in order to have drones unlocked? |
Xasnevian
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
28
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Posted - 2014.05.10 14:50:00 -
[86] - Quote
Riyria Twinpeaks wrote:I'm curious: How would you do it, without people losing the ability to use drones with the same efficiency they could before the changes?
Let's summarise what happened.
First proposal in devblog by CCP Rise:
- Combat drone operation (x2) --> Light drone operation (x1) + Medium drone operation (x2)
- Some renaming of skills (non-relevant)
Everyone with lvl 5 gains the same amount of skill points and people that don't have Combat drone operation lvl 5 yet, have time to train this skill. Everybody is happy. (this is very similar to the Destroyer and BattleCruiser skill split)
All of a sudden, (just a few?) people start talking about drones being skill intensive, new players and alts. For instance (nothing personal, Luscius Uta, your post was the one that caught my eye):
Luscius Uta wrote:Splitting the current Combat Drone Operation skill into two new skills is hardly going to make drone usage less skill-intensive, since it's gonna add one more week of training. ... but there'll be newer players and maybe even your alts coming to EVE after this change and this will affect them.
A few posts later, CCP Fozzie posts the following:
CCP Fozzie wrote:As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.
I admit that I just skimmed the thread, but I really didn't see that many people suggesting this. Also, if I understand correctly, the proposal is being changed because drones are skill intensive and new players are affected by this change. This change of heart does not make sense, because drones are equally skill intensive for new players (and alts) with CCP Rise's proposal as with CCP Fozzie's proposal.
The only ones affected by changing to CCP Fozzie's proposal are existing players. Nobody loses skillpoints. But his proposal gives some players (with Combat drone operation trained) less skillpoints than other players (with Combat drone operation NOT trained). I don't think this is fair and doesn't treat every player equally.
I say, go back to CCP Rise's proposal. |
Lothros Andastar
The Minutemen Li3 Federation
61
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Posted - 2014.05.10 14:53:00 -
[87] - Quote
So much entitled whining. HTFU. :) |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
2647
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 18:34:00 -
[88] - Quote
CCP should remove CDO, and replace it with nothing. Just for the entitlement crowd. Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruitng members for lowsec PvP operations. Newbie friendly, free T1 frigate and dessy hangar, solo tutoring and PvP classes for new members. Join our in game channel 'weflyrifters' and speak to a recruiter today. |
Beofryn Sedorak
48
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Posted - 2014.05.10 18:52:00 -
[89] - Quote
Combat Drone Operation is the skill that gives 5% damage per level. It is being split into 2 5% damage per level skills. One for light drones, and one for medium drones. It is not being removed in any way shape or form.
Scout Drone Operation is currently a 5k bonus to drone control range per level. It's also currently the prerequisite for t2 drones. It will be renamed to Drone Avionics and still give you 5k per range per level. It will no longer be the prerequisite for t2 drones.
Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation will (more appropriately) be the t2 Light and Medium drone prerequisites
Combat Drone Operation Is still being used to decide your L/M Drone Operation skill, Scout Drone Operation is ALSO being used to decide your new levels of L/M Drone Operation as it used to be the prerequisite for t2 drones.
This isn't that complicated.
TL;DR No. It's not. |
Beofryn Sedorak
48
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Posted - 2014.05.10 18:56:00 -
[90] - Quote
Money Makin Mitch wrote:Riyria Twinpeaks wrote:So you were training a skill you don't need, because a devblog about upcoming changes, which weren't final yet, told you you'd get extra SP then in skills you apparently don't need. I guess it was your decision to train something you don't need. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding something here? are you daft? i don't need the skill because CCP is removing the skill entirely. having sdo 5 is enough. why would i train a skill being removed other than because CCP told me i needed to in order to have drones unlocked?
The skill is not being removed, it's being split. Instead of one 5% damage per level skill for both light and medium drones, there will be a 5% damage per level skill for light and one for medium drones.
Training a skill based on anything other than the actual release is refered to speculating. It's called that because it's subject to change. This situation is the method of releasing changes early for player scrutiny and review working as intended. CCP Doesn't owe anyone anything. |
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