So much entitled whining. HTFU. :)

are you daft? i don't need the skill because CCP is removing the skill entirely. having sdo 5 is enough. why would i train a skill being removed other than because CCP told me i needed to in order to have drones unlocked?

I'll probably get flamed for this, but to me it seems Combat Drone Operation is now being removed from the game although no SP reimbursement as in the case of learning skills.

Would people please stop saying "you'll have more SP!"

Like, I get now that these changes are fine but having more SP means absolutely nothing.

Since the complaint is often phrased in terms of getting an SP refund, pointing out that you get more SP seems like a fairly reasonable way to demonstrate that such a refund doesn't make much sense.

The two old skills are being replaced by three new ones. Your old levels decide what you'll have in the new skills. If you haven't trained anything, you don't get anything. This makes it completely unlike the learning skill case.

Yes it is. No SP is lost. No training time is lost. At worst (if you have trained nothing) you come out the same as before. In all other cases, your old SP is transformed into new SP GÇö in every case more than you had before.

I understand that you are horribly upset that some will gain more than others, but attempting to paint it as them giving out abilities to everyone is unintelligent and dishonest.

GǪif you've trained one or more of the old skills, and that's what makes it a good deal for everyone involved.

No, they do not. My old level - non plural - decides my level for three new skills.
In this case where I have SDO V, my training in CDO V is completely irrelevent. It does not affect my skills post-patch.


Your problem is you don't seem to realize how gaining extra free SP is in fact an advantage and unfair to the others.


That's what makes it arbitrarily a better deal for players who we're not aware enough to follow dev blogs. If you try to turn this on me by saying I wasn't aware enough to follow dev blog threads, then we know you're grasping at straws.


Here's the real reason why this whole situation is crap:
- The dev blog clearly states only CDO V
- The dev blog, one month after SDO V changes were announces, was still not updated
- No where in the dev blog does it state the changes are not final or will be adjusted.

Even if we're wrong in regards to the SP issue, we are not wrong to ask for a refund when it was CCP who mislead us with the information. Many of us have trained CDO V in the past few weeks and it is for nothing. That is to say, we'd be in the exact same situation post-update if we didn't train it at all. That is not our fault, that is CCP's fault. I am not a mind reader who magically knows that changes announced in the dev blog aren't final (yes I'm fairly new).

Even if we're wrong in regards to the SP issue, we are not wrong to ask for a refund when it was CCP who mislead us with the information. Many of us have trained CDO V in the past few weeks and it is for nothing.

You get the benefit of CDO 5 between the time you trained it and when the change happens. Therefore it's not wasted time.

That dog won't hunt. Such an argument could be used to justify deleting all your skills tomorrow with no reimbursement.

"Well, you got to use them yesterday, so HTFU."

Fortunately that's nothing more than an after thought. The real piece of meat in that post which you conveniently ignored was the part where it's your own fault for training a skill based on information that was subject to change.

Let's summarise what happened.

First proposal in devblog by CCP Rise:

• Combat drone operation (x2) --> Light drone operation (x1) + Medium drone operation (x2)
• Some renaming of skills (non-relevant)

Everyone with lvl 5 gains the same amount of skill points and people that don't have Combat drone operation lvl 5 yet, have time to train this skill. Everybody is happy. (this is very similar to the Destroyer and BattleCruiser skill split)

[tale of why the first proposal was changed]

I say, go back to CCP Rise's proposal.

Or maybe he trained the skill earlier.

In any case it's only about 11 days of training time advantage maximum that people who trained only SDO 5 get over those who trained both SDO 5 and CDO 5. That's not a big deal, especially when you consider that having trained SDO 5 and CDO 5 before the change you have about 5 days advantage over anyone training DA 5, LDO 5, and MDO 5 after the change.

Now assume player Max has Scout Drone Operations 5 and Combat Drone Operations 2.
After the changes as proposed first, Max suddenly won't be able to use T2 light and medium drones anymore, as the new LDO and MDO skills, which get their levels from the old CDO (so he has them at level 2), are now the prerequisites for those.

CCP has this little philosophy, perhaps you've heard it before in regards to skill requirement changes..

"If you could fly it before the change, you can fly it after the change"

He would still be able to use them even though he doesn't meet the new requirements. He would be "Grandfathered" in.

Oh, wow. I didn't know that. Sounds like a mess to track, to be honest.

Combat Drone Operation is the skill that gives 5% damage per level. It is being split into two, 5% damage per level skills. One for light drones, and one for medium drones. It is not being removed in any way shape or form.

Scout Drone Operation is currently a 5k bonus to drone control range per level. It's also currently the prerequisite for t2 drones. It will be renamed to Drone Avionics and still give you 5k per range per level. It will no longer be the prerequisite for t2 drones.

Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation will (more appropriately) be the t2 Light and Medium drone prerequisites

Combat Drone Operation Is still being used to decide your L/M Drone Operation skill, Scout Drone Operation is ALSO being used to decide your new levels of L/M Drone Operation as it used to be the prerequisite for t2 drones.

This isn't that complicated.

TL;DR No. It's not.

That's why company's hire skilled people who can do this in their sleep.

Incorrect. If scout drone operation is higher than combat drone operation, it will be use to determine the level of all three new skills.

http://eve.beyondreality.se/pics/Kronos/DroneSkillTransition.png

Incorrect. If scout drone operation is higher than combat drone operation, it will be use to determine the level of all three new skills.

CCP has this little philosophy, perhaps you've heard it before in regards to skill requirement changes..

"If you could fly it before the change, you can fly it after the change"

He would still be able to use them even though he doesn't meet the new requirements. He would be "Grandfathered" in.

Now assume player Max has Scout Drone Operations 5 and Combat Drone Operations 2.
After the changes as proposed first, Max suddenly won't be able to use T2 light and medium drones anymore.

I can disassemble your entire argument in one line.

Here we go: "All pre-release information is subject to change."

That's what makes it arbitrarily a better deal for players who we're not aware enough to follow dev blogs.

Beofryn has a point, but just like Audrey, I hate it when the people who pay attention get punished and the people who did nothing get rewarded.

Fortunately that's nothing more than an after thought. The real piece of meat in that post which you conveniently ignored was the part where it's your own fault for training a skill based on information that was subject to change.

No, they do not. My old level - non plural - decides my level for three new skills.

Your problem is you don't seem to realize how gaining extra free SP is in fact an advantage and unfair to the others.

That's what makes it arbitrarily a better deal for players who we're not aware enough to follow dev blogs.

Here's the real reason why this whole situation is crap:
- The dev blog clearly states only CDO V

Do you see the problem?

Beofryn has a point, but just like Audrey, I hate it when the people who pay attention get punished and the people who did nothing get rewarded.

This solution would treat everyone equally:

• Refund all Combat drone operation SP
• Base the new skills only on the level of Scout drone operation

Everyone would gain the same amount of SP (devblog readers and non-devblog readers), assuming Scout drone operation 5.

Leaving it as is would be the most HTFU solution. Devblog readers are screwed, but this is the risk they took.