Originally by: Abdalion

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Originally by: Jebidus Skari

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What, in EVE, is a Tyrant?

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Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.

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Quote:

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-5.0 Curse Coalition CC 21-May-06 Shot at AXE & ASCN

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Quote:

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-5.0 Your just a political enemy. ASCN may or may not be activetly "hunting" you. You will be fired on in all of 0.0.

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Originally by: Lunas Feelgood

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Well since it was an AXIOM gank squad it has really nothing todo with ASCN. As fare as i know ASCN dont pirate or shoot neutrals..

I take it it was prop DDC who killed you and well you can prop try to ask for reimbursment but i doubt you will get any since DDC is preatty busy watching Evol movies Omg i didnt say that out loud

Omg i broke our corp rule but since its summer and i just saw a naked picture of steel rat and well he was kind of cute i think im alloved

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Originally by: Coahim Madden

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Originally by: Lunas Feelgood

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Well since it was an AXIOM gank squad it has really nothing todo with ASCN. As fare as i know ASCN dont pirate or shoot neutrals..

I take it it was prop DDC who killed you and well you can prop try to ask for reimbursment but i doubt you will get any since DDC is preatty busy watching Evol movies Omg i didnt say that out loud

Omg i broke our corp rule but since its summer and i just saw a naked picture of steel rat and well he was kind of cute i think im alloved

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Ok next time use your diary for that.

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Quote:

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2005.05.17 21:51:00

Victim:
Alliance: Unknown
Corporation: Knights of Chaos
Destroyed Type: Procurer
Solar System: Nasesharafa
System Security Level: 0.2

Involved parties:

Name: TheKiller8 (laid the final blow)
Security Status: -0.1
Alliance: Ascendant Frontier
Corporation: Eve Defence Force
Ship Type: Scorpion
Weapon Type: Bane Torpedo I



Destroyed items:

Type: Strip Miner I (Fitted - High slot)

Type: Small Capacitor Battery I (Fitted - Medium slot)

Type: Basic Power Diagnostic System (Fitted - Low slot)

Type: Radiant Hemorphite (Cargo)
Quantity: 333

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Originally by: TheKiller8

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Pff it has been known for ages that ASCN harbors horrible 0.4 roaming warpcore stabbing griefers. See:

Quote:

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2005.05.17 21:51:00

Victim:
Alliance: Unknown
Corporation: Knights of Chaos
Destroyed Type: Procurer
Solar System: Nasesharafa
System Security Level: 0.2

Involved parties:

Name: TheKiller8 (laid the final blow)
Security Status: -0.1
Alliance: Ascendant Frontier
Corporation: Eve Defence Force
Ship Type: Scorpion
Weapon Type: Bane Torpedo I



Destroyed items:

Type: Strip Miner I (Fitted - High slot)

Type: Small Capacitor Battery I (Fitted - Medium slot)

Type: Basic Power Diagnostic System (Fitted - Low slot)

Type: Radiant Hemorphite (Cargo)
Quantity: 333

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So stop complaining and start arming yourself.

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Originally by: Z0MBlE

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I would like a clarification and ruling on a recent event.

While undocking and subsequent run to ZXIC gate I was attacked and podded by an AXIOM force in KDF. I had announced my presence in local as an ISS law abiding friend and pilot. As I left from a market (Badger II) run at ISS Marginis (KDF) where I sell merchandise I spotted a small gate camp of Axiom at the ZXIC gate. I had previously checked the ASCN standing board. AWSOME board Celestial Horizon has put together there by the by. Anyway the board showed them ISS friendly. Per ASCN standings post as a -5 target I am subject to being hunted. Per ISS law attacks upon NAP'd haulers in they're sovereign space is considered piracy and those of us considering ourselves friends are NOT expected to initiate hostilities there.


1.Does ASCN/AXIOM wish to ammend the posted standings change rules? Was this an unmarked warzone and do ASCN/AXIOM recognize ISS rules for friendlies in they're space?

2.Will ISS ammend they're rules and allow NAP'd alliances to pursue personal standings in ISSN protected space? Can we then prosecute targets freely in KDF/ZXIC? Will the ISSN take a position on this small event with ASCN/AXIOM and get me reimbursement for my ship and cargo?

I must admit I find the whole situation rather amusing. All those of you who profess non-NBSI policies lets hear how this would work? I just sell ammo to NPC hunters so the hauler and contents are of little total value. However the political possibilities of this event are most interesting.

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Originally by: Adhamhnon

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*snip*

You are -5.0 to ASCN. Therefore you will be shot in 0.0. We are friendly to ISS, you aren't in ISS. Pretty simple really.

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Fixed it for you. Oh, btw, yarr! ~kieron

Originally by: Lunas Feelgood

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Edited by: Lunas Feelgood on 30/05/2006 17:56:00

Originally by: Coahim Madden

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Originally by: Lunas Feelgood

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Well since it was an AXIOM gank squad it has really nothing todo with ASCN. As fare as i know ASCN dont pirate or shoot neutrals..

I take it it was prop DDC who killed you and well you can prop try to ask for reimbursment but i doubt you will get any since DDC is preatty busy watching Evol movies Omg i didnt say that out loud

Omg i broke our corp rule but since its summer and i just saw a naked picture of steel rat and well he was kind of cute i think im alloved

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Ok next time use your diary for that.

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Dear Sir, sorry if my spelling sucks.. When i die ill try to be reincarnated in an english speaking country so i dont offend you next time

Edit: I have no idea how i actually manage to spell reincarnated

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Originally by: phredrik

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I assume you don't want to post how it was worked out. Did this guy get his stuff back or what ?

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Fixed it for you. Oh, btw, yarr! ~kieron

Originally by: Josiah Bartlet

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A Tyrell Character, lol. Not too mention, you are clearly an alt of an older player, so why not use your real character if you wanted to express this outrage so much?

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Originally by: DeathGrip

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Just pointing out a few things.

A) You are - to AXE and ASCN you said that yourself, you are in 0.0 space, what do you expect. So why would this be considered pirating to those above.

B) We did not do a gate camp, we went through the system on our way to your systems. You happend to be at a gate, we shot you down, personally in 0.0 if i find you and you are -I die or kill you, dont' know many alliances that dont do this.

C) Again this had nothing to do with Pirating, he said himself he is negative standings to ASCN/AXE.

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Originally by: Z0MBlE

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Originally by: DeathGrip

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Just pointing out a few things.

A) You are - to AXE and ASCN you said that yourself, you are in 0.0 space, what do you expect. So why would this be considered pirating to those above.

B) We did not do a gate camp, we went through the system on our way to your systems. You happend to be at a gate, we shot you down, personally in 0.0 if i find you and you are -I die or kill you, dont' know many alliances that dont do this.

C) Again this had nothing to do with Pirating, he said himself he is negative standings to ASCN/AXE.

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A. I expect our fellow friends in the ISS to treat me the same as they do you. It appears they have actually done so as not only did they acknowledge the petition but your parties acknowledge having been contacted by them.

B. I have no problem with you shooting anyone you please. I would be happy to have been able to do the same thing to those on my neg standings. It wasn't a complaint.

C. Its nothing to do with NBSI policy in 0.0 We run the same one you do. ISS however, consider firing on a NAP'd hauler in they're space as "piracy" regardless of standings you have to the hauler. This is why I don't get to shoot haulers in that area. You sir, are in fact guilty of piracy incurred in the ISS Soveriegn system of KDF under ISS rules and regulations. Its nothing personal and I don't care about the hauler. I do care about the rules either being enforced or discarded. In any case equal for me as you.

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Originally by: Z0MBlE

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I would like a clarification and ruling on a recent event.

While undocking and subsequent run to ZXIC gate I was attacked and podded by an AXIOM force in KDF. I had announced my presence in local as an ISS law abiding friend and pilot. As I left from a market (Badger II) run at ISS Marginis (KDF) where I sell merchandise I spotted a small gate camp of Axiom at the ZXIC gate. I had previously checked the ASCN standing board. AWSOME board Celestial Horizon has put together there by the by. Anyway the board showed them ISS friendly. Per ASCN standings post as a -5 target I am subject to being hunted. Per ISS law attacks upon NAP'd haulers in they're sovereign space is considered piracy and those of us considering ourselves friends are NOT expected to initiate hostilities there.


1.Does ASCN/AXIOM wish to ammend the posted standings change rules? Was this an unmarked warzone and do ASCN/AXIOM recognize ISS rules for friendlies in they're space?

2.Will ISS ammend they're rules and allow NAP'd alliances to pursue personal standings in ISSN protected space? Can we then prosecute targets freely in KDF/ZXIC? Will the ISSN take a position on this small event with ASCN/AXIOM and get me reimbursement for my ship and cargo?

I must admit I find the whole situation rather amusing. All those of you who profess non-NBSI policies lets hear how this would work? I just sell ammo to NPC hunters so the hauler and contents are of little total value. However the political possibilities of this event are most interesting.

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Originally by: Z0MBlE

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I would like a clarification and ruling on a recent event.

While undocking and subsequent run to ZXIC gate I was attacked and podded by an AXIOM force in KDF. I had announced my presence in local as an ISS law abiding friend and pilot. As I left from a market (Badger II) run at ISS Marginis (KDF) where I sell merchandise I spotted a small gate camp of Axiom at the ZXIC gate. I had previously checked the ASCN standing board. AWSOME board Celestial Horizon has put together there by the by. Anyway the board showed them ISS friendly. Per ASCN standings post as a -5 target I am subject to being hunted. Per ISS law attacks upon NAP'd haulers in they're sovereign space is considered piracy and those of us considering ourselves friends are NOT expected to initiate hostilities there.


1.Does ASCN/AXIOM wish to ammend the posted standings change rules? Was this an unmarked warzone and do ASCN/AXIOM recognize ISS rules for friendlies in they're space?

2.Will ISS ammend they're rules and allow NAP'd alliances to pursue personal standings in ISSN protected space? Can we then prosecute targets freely in KDF/ZXIC? Will the ISSN take a position on this small event with ASCN/AXIOM and get me reimbursement for my ship and cargo?

I must admit I find the whole situation rather amusing. All those of you who profess non-NBSI policies lets hear how this would work? I just sell ammo to NPC hunters so the hauler and contents are of little total value. However the political possibilities of this event are most interesting.

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Quote:

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I had previously checked the ASCN standing board. [...] Per ASCN standings post as a -5 target I am subject to being hunted.

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Originally by: Pride NL

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Originally by: Z0MBlE

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I would like a clarification and ruling on a recent event.

While undocking and subsequent run to ZXIC gate I was attacked and podded by an AXIOM force in KDF. I had announced my presence in local as an ISS law abiding friend and pilot. As I left from a market (Badger II) run at ISS Marginis (KDF) where I sell merchandise I spotted a small gate camp of Axiom at the ZXIC gate. I had previously checked the ASCN standing board. AWSOME board Celestial Horizon has put together there by the by. Anyway the board showed them ISS friendly. Per ASCN standings post as a -5 target I am subject to being hunted. Per ISS law attacks upon NAP'd haulers in they're sovereign space is considered piracy and those of us considering ourselves friends are NOT expected to initiate hostilities there.


1.Does ASCN/AXIOM wish to ammend the posted standings change rules? Was this an unmarked warzone and do ASCN/AXIOM recognize ISS rules for friendlies in they're space?

2.Will ISS ammend they're rules and allow NAP'd alliances to pursue personal standings in ISSN protected space? Can we then prosecute targets freely in KDF/ZXIC? Will the ISSN take a position on this small event with ASCN/AXIOM and get me reimbursement for my ship and cargo?

I must admit I find the whole situation rather amusing. All those of you who profess non-NBSI policies lets hear how this would work? I just sell ammo to NPC hunters so the hauler and contents are of little total value. However the political possibilities of this event are most interesting.

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To my knowledge, all systems with ISS stations in it are DMZ for everyone, including blues. And also, ISS should react on these events, according to their charter anyhow.

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Originally by: CYVOK

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ASCN & AXE will shoot all players with hostile standings reguardless of ISS local policies. Just because ISS has an outpost in that system dosen't mean your safe in it.

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Originally by: Afrodite Etnellag

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Originally by: CYVOK

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ASCN & AXE will shoot all players with hostile standings reguardless of ISS local policies. Just because ISS has an outpost in that system dosen't mean your safe in it.

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Huh? so you demand your blues that travel your space not to shoot their enemys, ( they are allowed to shoot your enemys only )
but you do not respect ISS rules which are preaty much the same as yours?

I do not get it. it seems to me that you do not give a crap about ISS policies, do you?

But hey you have docking rights, lets see how you 'll feel when you docking rights go

I am a shareholder of ISS and i will demand the rules to apply on all

Tata

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Originally by: Z0MBlE

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I must admit I find the whole situation rather amusing. All those of you who profess non-NBSI policies lets hear how this would work? I just sell ammo to NPC hunters so the hauler and contents are of little total value. However the political possibilities of this event are most interesting.

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Originally by: CYVOK

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Originally by: Z0MBlE

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I would like a clarification and ruling on a recent event.

While undocking and subsequent run to ZXIC gate I was attacked and podded by an AXIOM force in KDF. I had announced my presence in local as an ISS law abiding friend and pilot. As I left from a market (Badger II) run at ISS Marginis (KDF) where I sell merchandise I spotted a small gate camp of Axiom at the ZXIC gate. I had previously checked the ASCN standing board. AWSOME board Celestial Horizon has put together there by the by. Anyway the board showed them ISS friendly. Per ASCN standings post as a -5 target I am subject to being hunted. Per ISS law attacks upon NAP'd haulers in they're sovereign space is considered piracy and those of us considering ourselves friends are NOT expected to initiate hostilities there.


1.Does ASCN/AXIOM wish to ammend the posted standings change rules? Was this an unmarked warzone and do ASCN/AXIOM recognize ISS rules for friendlies in they're space?

2.Will ISS ammend they're rules and allow NAP'd alliances to pursue personal standings in ISSN protected space? Can we then prosecute targets freely in KDF/ZXIC? Will the ISSN take a position on this small event with ASCN/AXIOM and get me reimbursement for my ship and cargo?

I must admit I find the whole situation rather amusing. All those of you who profess non-NBSI policies lets hear how this would work? I just sell ammo to NPC hunters so the hauler and contents are of little total value. However the political possibilities of this event are most interesting.

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ASCN & AXE will shoot all players with hostile standings reguardless of ISS local policies. Just because ISS has an outpost in that system dosen't mean your safe in it.

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Originally by: CYVOK

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ASCN & AXE will shoot all players with hostile standings reguardless of ISS local policies. Just because ISS has an outpost in that system dosen't mean your safe in it.

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Originally by: Afrodite Etnellag

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Originally by: CYVOK

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ASCN & AXE will shoot all players with hostile standings reguardless of ISS local policies. Just because ISS has an outpost in that system dosen't mean your safe in it.

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Huh? so you demand your blues that travel your space not to shoot their enemys, ( they are allowed to shoot your enemys only )

But hey you have docking rights, lets see how you 'll feel when you docking rights go

I am a shareholder of ISS and i will demand the rules to apply on all

Tata

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Originally by: Z0MBlE

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Edited by: Z0MBlE on 31/05/2006 03:22:24
Edited by: Z0MBlE on 31/05/2006 03:09:38

Originally by: CYVOK

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ASCN & AXE will shoot all players with hostile standings reguardless of ISS local policies. Just because ISS has an outpost in that system dosen't mean your safe in it.

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Cyvok - Thank you for the clarification from the ACSN side of things. To be honest I would have been dissapointed if it were anything less. I would also greatly appreciate the name of the designer for your standings page if possible.

I also have the ISS point of view and so the clarification is complete. Even if both sides don't agree. The bottom line being that NBSI policy will always control movements in 0.0 regardless of attempts to civilize a zone. I'm not saying the ISS utopian idea to colonize 0.0 isn't a high ideal to have. Just that it only works until a force with apathy to your cause comes along and enforces its own NBSI policy anyway. As its not enforceable you should repeal the ISS law and allow us to shoot whomever our standings dictate in these space zones.

Thank you all for your time and in-put. Those of you who thought this was about a T1 hauler full of ammo really might want to spend a little more time in 0.0

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Quote:

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1) I bet my left Arm ASCN owns more shares in ISS then anyone in EvE.

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Quote:

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[05:17:46] Obiareus > freindlies dock or safespot
[05:17:51] Obiareus > YOU CANNOT WIN

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Originally by: Seleene

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While I agree with Cyvok's post (you should be kind to thy neighbors with 40+ dreads), can you imagine the standings confusion within ISSN? You'd almost have to set up "Regional" Rules of Engagement based upon where they were operating from.

"Okay, today we're shooting ASCN because it will make D2 happy."

"Okay, today we're shooting D2 because it will make ASCN happy."

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Originally by: Helmut 314

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This is quite interesting actually. I can buy ISS shares in a large quantity and then ignore the rules set up by ISS in their sovereign systems without consequences ?

Is that official ISS policy ? In that case, has that been approved by ALL your shareholders ?

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Originally by: Helmut 314

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Edited by: Helmut 314 on 31/05/2006 08:29:23
Oh I fully appreciate the "might makes right" argument. Perfectly logical.

Its just interesting to see how much of a cuckold ISS really is. ISS has a quite arrogant attitude on the forums in many issues, but when it comes to policing their own space they bow and step aside if the right people frowns...

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Originally by: Count TaSessine

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I'd like to remind all of you of the actual wording of the Rules of Engagement for our outposts systems (I realise it differs from the perception most people have):

16. Who won't be able to dock at the station?
To begin with, all pilots and corporations can dock at the outpost. Pilots, corporations or alliances will be set to -ve standings and incur either penalty surcharges or denied docking privileges for the following:
- Committing acts of piracy regularly in the outpost system and neighbouring systems resulting in a major disruption of trade
- Committing acts of aggression towards the ISS including:
- Declaring war on the ISS
- Accepting or Initiating Mercenary contracts against the ISS
- Setting -ve standings towards the ISS
- Declaring ISS alliance pilots KOS (Kill on Sight)

As you can see there are no contradictions or problems re. ASCN and the current situation. Everyone are entitled to their own private opinions on ASCN, but as far as we are concerned they have never been pirates, nor have they been cause of recurrent disruptions of trade around Marginis (like our friends in RAT for example ).

This being said, ISS operate in a very volatile environment and we have to respect the sensibilities of our largest neighbours (and clients). We knew this before we built the first outpost.

For example: Months ago, I told Cyvok that ASCN would not be allowed to dock in Borealis because G-Alliance (D2) objected. Borealis opened a new flank into D2 which they were concerned about considering their ongoing wars with the southern alliances. Cyvok gracefully accepted that: D2 is our largest potential client up there and Cyvok understood D2 would have security concerns about ASCN etc.

We are grateful for the inherent support of ISS that this attitude conveys and if similar situations crop up in the future we hope others will be as forward thinking as ASCN.

So, the answer is that no, we are not going to deny ASCN or any other southern alliance not openly hostile to ISS docking rights in the southern outposts.

As for the shareholders point of view, cutting off ASCN from the outpost would remove 70% of the customers. I'm sure they wouldn't want that regardless.

ISS is not out to save the world. We like to promote development of 0.0 but we cannot prevent wars from happening. We can, however, try to help out traders coming to our public outpost systems, do our best to limit random pirating but we cannot guarantee peoples safety 24/7 and that goes for all the outposts.


To IAC and CC: I know you both operate under a slightly different interpretation of the ROE in Marginis than is stated above. Contact me if you would like to discuss it.

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Originally by: dralid

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Edited by: dralid on 31/05/2006 09:50:40
Let me get this straight ... so if CC is shooting a hauler in ISS space, they are OMGWTFBBQPWNED, but its all ok if ASCN does it?

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Originally by: dralid

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Edited by: dralid on 31/05/2006 09:50:40
And, if I shoot on an enemy in ASCN space, I am violating their rules, but how can I accept their rules if they themselves don't accept local rules?

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Originally by: standings page

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The members of these Alliances have TRAVEL RIGHTS ONLY in ASCN Territory. Abuse of this privilege will result in their loss.

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Originally by: Seleene

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While I agree with Cyvok's post (you should be kind to thy neighbors with 40+ dreads), can you imagine the standings confusion within ISSN? You'd almost have to set up "Regional" Rules of Engagement based upon where they were operating from.

"Okay, today we're shooting ASCN because it will make D2 happy."

"Okay, today we're shooting D2 because it will make ASCN happy."

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Originally by: DTee

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Edited by: DTee on 31/05/2006 01:08:51

Originally by: Pride NL

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Originally by: Z0MBlE

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I would like a clarification and ruling on a recent event.

While undocking and subsequent run to ZXIC gate I was attacked and podded by an AXIOM force in KDF. I had announced my presence in local as an ISS law abiding friend and pilot. As I left from a market (Badger II) run at ISS Marginis (KDF) where I sell merchandise I spotted a small gate camp of Axiom at the ZXIC gate. I had previously checked the ASCN standing board. AWSOME board Celestial Horizon has put together there by the by. Anyway the board showed them ISS friendly. Per ASCN standings post as a -5 target I am subject to being hunted. Per ISS law attacks upon NAP'd haulers in they're sovereign space is considered piracy and those of us considering ourselves friends are NOT expected to initiate hostilities there.


1.Does ASCN/AXIOM wish to ammend the posted standings change rules? Was this an unmarked warzone and do ASCN/AXIOM recognize ISS rules for friendlies in they're space?

2.Will ISS ammend they're rules and allow NAP'd alliances to pursue personal standings in ISSN protected space? Can we then prosecute targets freely in KDF/ZXIC? Will the ISSN take a position on this small event with ASCN/AXIOM and get me reimbursement for my ship and cargo?

I must admit I find the whole situation rather amusing. All those of you who profess non-NBSI policies lets hear how this would work? I just sell ammo to NPC hunters so the hauler and contents are of little total value. However the political possibilities of this event are most interesting.

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To my knowledge, all systems with ISS stations in it are DMZ for everyone, including blues. And also, ISS should react on these events, according to their charter anyhow.

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This is offtopic but nice try on ripping off the dice sigs funny thats smiliar to a sample i saw. You do need more practise though. The original looks awesome I think you should just go buy that.

p.s. Its not cool to get someone to make you a sample and then go rip it off :(

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Originally by: Troye

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Originally by: Z0MBlE

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I must admit I find the whole situation rather amusing. All those of you who profess non-NBSI policies lets hear how this would work? I just sell ammo to NPC hunters so the hauler and contents are of little total value. However the political possibilities of this event are most interesting.

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A hauler gets shot down by a PvP gang with -5 standings and this has political implications?

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Originally by: Steel Rat

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1. Why is luna lookin at nakid pictures of me? Cyvok's the cute 1 :P

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Originally by: Butter Dog

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It does, because ISS systems are a DMZ, and regardless of standings you should not engage anyone else in ISS Outpost systems.

This is the simple fact, Axoim were in the wrong here.

If you want the benefits of a free trade outpost, shooting whatever ISS customers you please isnt the best way of going about it.

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Originally by: Weebear

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Originally by: Butter Dog

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It does, because ISS systems are a DMZ, and regardless of standings you should not engage anyone else in ISS Outpost systems.

This is the simple fact, Axoim were in the wrong here.

If you want the benefits of a free trade outpost, shooting whatever ISS customers you please isnt the best way of going about it.

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They aren't a DMZ, it's only piracy that is not allowed.
Count Tessaine has posted himself that the Axiom guys were within their right to shoot the guy.

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Originally by: Steel Rat

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Yes I had a conversation with an ISS representative complaining about AXE shooting people in their systems. 2 things came mind during this:

1. Why is luna lookin at nakid pictures of me? Cyvok's the cute 1 :P

2. Did I ask for this outpost in the middle of my travel route without even a reach around? So suddenly because ISS is a "neutral party", they feel they can put an outpost where ever they want and screw the rest of us? Let alone, I do not see them with a "concord" style navy that sits in these systems 24/7 to make sure my people don't get shot.

0.0 is hostile. Deal with it. Want some namby pamby NPCs to protect your butt, go back to empire.

AXE has no beef with ISS with regards to their ships moving about but AXE pilots will shoot hostiles pilots in whatever system they please.

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Fixed it for you. Oh, btw, yarr! ~kieron

Originally by: Helmut 314

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Edited by: Helmut 314 on 31/05/2006 12:19:24

When Marginis was set up ISS declared that shooting anyone, regardless of your mutual war status and standings etc, inside the KDF-GY system would mean that your docking priviliges would be rescinded. I think thats what the original poster found strange, the change in policy from ISS to suddenly allow people to shoot each other in ISS controlled space.

Or should I say, allow certain people to shoot others inside ISS space...

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Originally by: Pride NL

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Edited by: Pride NL on 31/05/2006 12:32:54

Originally by: Weebear

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Originally by: Butter Dog

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It does, because ISS systems are a DMZ, and regardless of standings you should not engage anyone else in ISS Outpost systems.

This is the simple fact, Axoim were in the wrong here.

If you want the benefits of a free trade outpost, shooting whatever ISS customers you please isnt the best way of going about it.

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They aren't a DMZ, it's only piracy that is not allowed.
Count Tessaine has posted himself that the Axiom guys were within their right to shoot the guy.

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Then i was lied to when i was in ISSN? Think not.

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Originally by: Hawkings SJ

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Notice that all the "ISS MUST FIGHT AXIOM/ASCN TO DEFEND ITS HONOR!" posts are coming from people neither in ISS, Axiom or ASCN.

The three alliances it actually concerns are basically at an understanding about the situation. They've told everyone the deal two or three times now.

But, it seems there are people and alts who think that ISS is going to goto war over this incidient.

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Originally by: Helmut 314

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Edited by: Helmut 314 on 31/05/2006 12:19:24

When Marginis was set up ISS declared that shooting anyone, regardless of your mutual war status and standings etc, inside the KDF-GY system would mean that your docking priviliges would be rescinded. I think thats what the original poster found strange, the change in policy from ISS to suddenly allow people to shoot each other in ISS controlled space.

Or should I say, allow certain people to shoot others inside ISS space...

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Quote:

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Seems to me that sooner or later negotiating on your knees is going to lead to demands you don't want to keep. What happens when party A demands access to outpost B to launch an invasion on alliance C BUT you agreement with allinace C is that party A have no docking rights?

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Originally by: DTee

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Edited by: DTee on 31/05/2006 13:37:29
First of,

I did not insult you so there is no need to call me a cry baby, neither did I say that you didn't create THOSE sigs.Agreed posting off topic does make us look bad but I'm not making a personal attack or anything. Its no biggy just an observation.

Linkage

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Originally by: Weebear

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Originally by: Pride NL

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Edited by: Pride NL on 31/05/2006 12:32:54

Originally by: Weebear

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Originally by: Butter Dog

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It does, because ISS systems are a DMZ, and regardless of standings you should not engage anyone else in ISS Outpost systems.

This is the simple fact, Axoim were in the wrong here.

If you want the benefits of a free trade outpost, shooting whatever ISS customers you please isnt the best way of going about it.

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They aren't a DMZ, it's only piracy that is not allowed.
Count Tessaine has posted himself that the Axiom guys were within their right to shoot the guy.

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Then i was lied to when i was in ISSN? Think not.

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So you are saying the policy that Count has quoted in this thread was changed in the last 24 hours just to suit Axiom ganking a hauler with hostile standings in ISS controlled space? Think not.

Alliances have policy changes.

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Originally by: Kayoss

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Not sure why you guys are *****ing about this so much. It's not like we are camping the station and shooting everyone that undocks. 1 guy got shot, big deal. He was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

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Originally by: Count TaSessine

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To begin with, all pilots and corporations can dock at the outpost. Pilots, corporations or alliances will be set to -ve standings and incur either penalty surcharges or denied docking privileges for the following:
- Committing acts of piracy regularly in the outpost system and neighbouring systems resulting in a major disruption of trade

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Originally by: Butter Dog

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Who is to stop any organisation delcaring war on however they wish then camping KDF 23/7, in that case? They can just pick some regular customers and bring in the easy kills.

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Originally by: Plutoinum

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Edited by: Plutoinum on 01/06/2006 03:12:42
ISS told me then that I don't have to be afraid of being attacked in kdf, since Fix knows that they aren't allowed to attack visitors of Marginis and that it can result in a removal of their docking rights.

So in the beginning, kdf was imho really a zone, where only ISS-Navy was allowed to shoot with the exception of killing pirates and hostiles of ISS, like RAT, who were probably the first entity that got docking rights revoked.

Not that I care much about the policy, because it's too far off, but pretending that shooting hostiles has always been allowed in kdf doesn't seem correct to me.

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Originally by: Pride NL

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Originally by: DTee

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Edited by: DTee on 31/05/2006 13:37:29
First of,

I did not insult you so there is no need to call me a cry baby, neither did I say that you didn't create THOSE sigs.Agreed posting off topic does make us look bad but I'm not making a personal attack or anything. Its no biggy just an observation.

Linkage

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Was made by the same person -.-

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Originally by: Lunanie

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Edited by: Lunanie on 01/06/2006 08:33:24

Originally by: Pride NL

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Originally by: DTee

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Edited by: DTee on 31/05/2006 13:37:29
First of,

I did not insult you so there is no need to call me a cry baby, neither did I say that you didn't create THOSE sigs.Agreed posting off topic does make us look bad but I'm not making a personal attack or anything. Its no biggy just an observation.

Linkage

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Was made by the same person -.-

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Sorry Pride, Now I have to disappoint, the one from this link is made by Lou Ping of BoB but I didn't steal anything. (didn't even saw it when made the logo myself in 3D)

edit: typo

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Originally by: Plutoinum

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Not that I care much about the policy, because it's too far off, but pretending that shooting hostiles has always been allowed in kdf doesn't seem correct to me.

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Originally by: sb404

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No you're right, my intentions were not to pretend that shooting hostiles was allowed, publically, I think the "DMZ" worked far longer than we had hoped it would, but in the corp chats, before the recruitement drive, we were dreading having to enforce it. Quite honnestly, and correct me if I'm wrong, we never did.

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Originally by: Nadija

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Just another example of ASCN picking on small corps/alliances... They are the biggest allaince in EVE & think they can bully anyone... now they have finished with tribe... gotta ask urself... whos next??

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Fixed it for you. Oh, btw, yarr! ~kieron

Originally by: David Corbett

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Now that said diplomatic incident has completely failed to materialise and the attempt to slander AXE has failed miserably.

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Originally by: Daald

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Edited by: Daald on 01/06/2006 15:10:49
Well, I think it is not just about enforcing policy anymore. It is more about the thought process that put an outpost in a major travel route knowing that gangs that move stuff through there operate under NBSI while transporting valuable goods and all the repercussions that it brings.

Wouldn't a dead end system, that is one jump off the main highway been a better choice and just as accessible?

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Originally by: Bared Bel'Medar

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Its a rare dialect called "dou'chay'ba'gh"... frequently used by members of this forum community. I was under the assumption you spoke it

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Originally by: Nadija

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Just another example of ASCN picking on small corps/alliances... They are the biggest allaince in EVE & think they can bully anyone... now they have finished with tribe... gotta ask urself... whos next??

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Originally by: Abdalion

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Originally by: Jebidus Skari

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What, in EVE, is a Tyrant?

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Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.

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Originally by: Raid

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This issue was resolved days ago, in private between the parties involved.

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Fixed it for you. Oh, btw, yarr! ~kieron

Originally by: Butter Dog

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As it is, it seems ASCN want one set of rules to apply to ISS Outpost systems which suit them, and another set of rules entirely to apply to their own.

Neutral trade hubs *cannot* succeed if people bring their wars into them. ASCN should respect that.

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Originally by: Riddari

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ASCN can't dock in ISS EC-P8R Outpost. That doesn't sound neutral to me.

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Originally by: Eleese

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um when ISS took control of EC-P they shot at ASCN and G (at the time) who tried to shoot each other in that system. EC-P for example is the hottest system in terms of kills for ascn always has been yet ISS feels they could stop that. I just think ISS's rules are very unrealistic and frankly beyond their military abilities to enforce. So this will be a common thread if eveyone moans about being shot in an ISS system.

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Originally by: Abdalion

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Originally by: Jebidus Skari

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What, in EVE, is a Tyrant?

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Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.

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Originally by: Butter Dog

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Originally by: Daald

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Edited by: Daald on 01/06/2006 15:10:49
Well, I think it is not just about enforcing policy anymore. It is more about the thought process that put an outpost in a major travel route knowing that gangs that move stuff through there operate under NBSI while transporting valuable goods and all the repercussions that it brings.

Wouldn't a dead end system, that is one jump off the main highway been a better choice and just as accessible?

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But KDF isnt on a main travel highway - its slightly off one.

There are plenty of systems either side of KDF so to say that you need to engage people or they will travel with immunity through 0.0 space is little more than a joke. And I might add, ASCN havent laid claim to Catch, perhaps if you did you might have a point. As it is, it seems ASCN want one set of rules to apply to ISS Outpost systems which suit them, and another set of rules entirely to apply to their own.

Neutral trade hubs *cannot* succeed if people bring their wars into them. ASCN should respect that.

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Originally by: Pride NL

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As i said, as i read this thread and the posts from count tassesine it looks a convinience matter to me. Like:

"we can't be arsed to go to war with ASCN, as they are our biggest shareholders and might overpower us".

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Originally by: Eleese

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um when ISS took control of EC-P they shot at ASCN and G (at the time) who tried to shoot each other in that system. EC-P for example is the hottest system in terms of kills for ascn always has been yet ISS feels they could stop that. I just think ISS's rules are very unrealistic and frankly beyond their military abilities to enforce. So this will be a common thread if eveyone moans about being shot in an ISS system.

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Originally by: Rexy

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even if ascn had zero shares in iss i doubt things would be different, the why and how's been perfectly explained earlier in the thread i think

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Originally by: Butter Dog

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Originally by: Daald

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Edited by: Daald on 01/06/2006 15:10:49
Well, I think it is not just about enforcing policy anymore. It is more about the thought process that put an outpost in a major travel route knowing that gangs that move stuff through there operate under NBSI while transporting valuable goods and all the repercussions that it brings.

Wouldn't a dead end system, that is one jump off the main highway been a better choice and just as accessible?

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But KDF isnt on a main travel highway - its slightly off one.

There are plenty of systems either side of KDF so to say that you need to engage people or they will travel with immunity through 0.0 space is little more than a joke. And I might add, ASCN havent laid claim to Catch, perhaps if you did you might have a point. As it is, it seems ASCN want one set of rules to apply to ISS Outpost systems which suit them, and another set of rules entirely to apply to their own.

Neutral trade hubs *cannot* succeed if people bring their wars into them. ASCN should respect that.

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Originally by: StiZum Hilidii

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oh and [DICE] sigs > [SRNA] sigs tbh

.

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Originally by: Isonda

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Originally by: Butter Dog

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Originally by: Daald

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Edited by: Daald on 01/06/2006 15:10:49
Well, I think it is not just about enforcing policy anymore. It is more about the thought process that put an outpost in a major travel route knowing that gangs that move stuff through there operate under NBSI while transporting valuable goods and all the repercussions that it brings.

Wouldn't a dead end system, that is one jump off the main highway been a better choice and just as accessible?

---

But KDF isnt on a main travel highway - its slightly off one.

There are plenty of systems either side of KDF so to say that you need to engage people or they will travel with immunity through 0.0 space is little more than a joke. And I might add, ASCN havent laid claim to Catch, perhaps if you did you might have a point. As it is, it seems ASCN want one set of rules to apply to ISS Outpost systems which suit them, and another set of rules entirely to apply to their own.

Neutral trade hubs *cannot* succeed if people bring their wars into them. ASCN should respect that.

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Why should AXE and or ASCN respect that?
90 percent of the people on eve-o don't respect ASCN. Now, ASCN tried to have a 'be nice to all' policy, and all we got was stepped on. That officially stopped when someone stole our veldspar.

At this moment there are terrorist in and around our home and travelroutes. Any red squares my overview display to me, I will try to shoot if I think I can manage to both shoot and stay alive.

Now, you guys that are complaining that ISS don't uphold that charter thing. I guess you guys are shareholders, because if not, your oppinion are worth about as much as a reaper.

If you are a stockholder, mail the chairman and demand a vote about war-dec'n ASCN and AXE. It is your obligation to point out the evil plot ASCN and AXE are spinning here, and ISSN have an obligation to save face.

Pretty please, with suggar on tops, war-dec ASCN. If you need more proof about ASCN and AXE's resolve to protect theire pilots, arrange for some D2, Razor, BE, S******ly or MC to be in KDF in haulers. I am sure we can have some ASCN frig-squad blow them all up so that ISS might commit suiciede.

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Quote:

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All we ask is that people don't discharge weapons in-system.

Outside the system, the usual 0.0 precautions must be observed.

We are not going to ban a pirate for committing acts of piracy or shooting other ships for whatever reason outside the Marginis system. We're not trying to save the galaxy, you know

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Quote:

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- The no-docking list from our other outposts will be applied with immediate effect in Cassini. This means that BoB, among others, will not have docking rights to the station due to their repeated violations of our system wide no-fire zones in the other ISS outpost systems.

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Originally by: Butter Dog

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As a friend of ISS, you either support them or you don't. ASCN have shares in ISS too, why would you want to contribute to the potential failure of the public trade outposts.

You should respect it not because you are told to, but because you are friends of ISS and wish to respect it.

Otherwise, just set ISS to negative and then your actions won't look so pathetically hypocritical.

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Originally by: BoinKlasik

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Originally by: Nadija

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Just another example of ASCN picking on small corps/alliances... They are the biggest allaince in EVE & think they can bully anyone... now they have finished with tribe... gotta ask urself... whos next??

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you, who doesnt like beaing up strippers?

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Originally by: Malachon Draco

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Originally by: Butter Dog

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As a friend of ISS, you either support them or you don't. ASCN have shares in ISS too, why would you want to contribute to the potential failure of the public trade outposts.

You should respect it not because you are told to, but because you are friends of ISS and wish to respect it.

Otherwise, just set ISS to negative and then your actions won't look so pathetically hypocritical.

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Do you seriously believe that ASCN or any other major alliance will allow ISS-space to be a refuge for their enemies, just because they 'respect' ISS?

Yeah, right...

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Quote:

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[05:17:46] Obiareus > freindlies dock or safespot
[05:17:51] Obiareus > YOU CANNOT WIN

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Originally by: Nadija

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Originally by: BoinKlasik

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Originally by: Nadija

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Just another example of ASCN picking on small corps/alliances... They are the biggest allaince in EVE & think they can bully anyone... now they have finished with tribe... gotta ask urself... whos next??

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you, who doesnt like beaing up strippers?

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Bring it on, you big egos make u easier to shoot... PS I'm not a stripper anymore...

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Fixed it for you. Oh, btw, yarr! ~kieron

Originally by: Dor Cadmon

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ASCN claims to have respect and honor. They have none. They go out of their way to gank deep in the north. ASCN is on the same level as BoB now.

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Originally by: Abdalion

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Originally by: Jebidus Skari

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What, in EVE, is a Tyrant?

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Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.

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Originally by: Dor Cadmon

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ASCN claims to have respect and honor. They have none. They go out of their way to gank deep in the north. ASCN is on the same level as BoB now.

You have made jump clones into a cheap tactic of gate gank and run. You have no honor.

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Originally by: Grimpak

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Originally by: Dor Cadmon

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ASCN claims to have respect and honor. They have none. They go out of their way to gank deep in the north. ASCN is on the same level as BoB now.

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good! we climbed 1 step then!

few months back we were in a "lower than BoB" tier and now we reach the "ASCN is on the same level as BoB now." tier.

we made some progress!

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Originally by: Coupo

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someone mentioned bob? whats going on here.. where the tinfoil!

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Originally by: Z0MBlE

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I would like a clarification and ruling on a recent event...

Per ISS law attacks upon NAP'd haulers in they're sovereign space is considered piracy and those of us considering ourselves friends are NOT expected to initiate hostilities there...


1. ...do ASCN/AXIOM recognize ISS rules for friendlies in they're space?

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Originally by: bonombonom

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Originally by: Grimpak

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Originally by: Dor Cadmon

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ASCN claims to have respect and honor. They have none. They go out of their way to gank deep in the north. ASCN is on the same level as BoB now.

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good! we climbed 1 step then!

few months back we were in a "lower than BoB" tier and now we reach the "ASCN is on the same level as BoB now." tier.

we made some progress!

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so does AXE move up too? infact, what level is AXE on, im dying to be compared to BoB

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Originally by: Abdalion

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Originally by: Jebidus Skari

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What, in EVE, is a Tyrant?

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Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.

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Originally by: Murphy

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Well if BoB and ASCN are on the same level and people put AXE together with ASCN that must make AXE even better then BoB and ASCN cause I know I can kick Drakma's ass \o/

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Originally by: StiZum Hilidii

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oh and [DICE] sigs > [SRNA] sigs tbh

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Originally by: bonombonom

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Jesus, would a comma every now and then kill you murphy?

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Originally by: Murphy

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Well if BoB and ASCN are on the same level and people put AXE together with ASCN that must make AXE even better then BoB and ASCN cause I know I can kick Drakma's ass \o/

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Originally by: Dor Cadmon

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ASCN claims to have respect and honor. They have none. They go out of their way to gank deep in the north. ASCN is on the same level as BoB now.

You have made jump clones into a cheap tactic of gate gank and run. You have no honor.

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