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Rasta Rocketman
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Posted - 2006.06.01 22:30:00 -
[1]
I have noticed that certain alliances/corps are not posting losses on their killboards. I realize that some corps or alliances have rules about not posting them, but why not?
The only reason I can think of is to maintain morale when getting spanked and to use as a marketing tool for recruiting (albeit false information presented).
In my eve experience thusfar, I have experienced CEOs that outright lie to their members about getting killed, to this more suble approach of just pretending that losses never happen by not posting them on killboards.
What are everyone's thoughts on this subject?
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Karl Shade
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Posted - 2006.06.01 22:33:00 -
[2]
Some poeple just do not post. Period. In an alliance this usually means that they get KP anyhow from fleets, etc.
Some are immature *****s and post only their kills/edit killmails.
The first type I can agree with.
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Torquemanda Corteaz
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Posted - 2006.06.01 22:37:00 -
[3]
I haven't had any losses to post on a killboard but if I was in a fleet fight or got caught out by a pirate I would post the loss, Im a git for accuracy
I know some people dont because they dont like losing and I know some people are just adsent minded
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Rasta Rocketman
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Posted - 2006.06.01 22:41:00 -
[4]
We certainly have some members that forget to post, but we hound them until they do. Generally if you want your killboards to have any integrity you simply have to nag your members to post kills and losses.
It sounds like maybe these corps/alliances don't hold the accuracy of a killboard as highly as pvp corps do.
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Trinity Faetal
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Posted - 2006.06.01 22:55:00 -
[5]
some alliances do not require their members to post their losses. some of them don't even know what a killboard is and that their alliance even does pvp 
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Joshua Foiritain
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Posted - 2006.06.01 22:58:00 -
[6]
Not posting losses is good for morale, on both sides. Nothings more amusing then watching an enemy brag about how great theyre doing in a war while they dont know thats only because their members arent posting losses 
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[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Masta Killa
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Posted - 2006.06.01 23:01:00 -
[7]
Posting all your kills and not all your losses is something that way too many alliance/corp members do and I think it's both pathetic and hypocrisy because very often, the same alliances/corps accuse others of not posting their losses.
I know alot of people are going to yap on in this thread about people posting their kills to a killboard as a way to record their kills for themselves to review, thus posting their losses isn't mandatory.
However that is complete bullsht because a killboard is in very, very many cases a part of the image of the corp, that people see and judge the corp by.
Posting all your kills and all your losses lengthens one's Epeen much more than not posting losses on purpose. 
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Rasta Rocketman
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Posted - 2006.06.01 23:12:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: Masta Killa
Posting all your kills and not all your losses is something that way too many alliance/corp members do and I think it's both pathetic and hypocrisy because very often, the same alliances/corps accuse others of not posting their losses.
I know alot of people are going to yap on in this thread about people posting their kills to a killboard as a way to record their kills for themselves to review, thus posting their losses isn't mandatory.
However that is complete bullsht because a killboard is in very, very many cases a part of the image of the corp, that people see and judge the corp by.
Posting all your kills and all your losses lengthens one's Epeen much more than not posting losses on purpose.
amen, my point exactly. I'm just trying to figure out if there is a real, honest, viable, sensible reason for not posting losses.
I find that most of these very same alliances post all killmails though, which I find hypocritical.
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Kaell Meynn
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Posted - 2006.06.01 23:18:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Kaell Meynn on 01/06/2006 23:22:31
Posting losses tells everyone what stuff you fit on your ships. It's probably not the most common reason losses are not posted, but it is a valid one.
I've also heard of a few cases where losses were not posted because it was due to a bug or exploit and they were waiting to see the result of petition before posting (though I bet they'll forget by the time a petition is answers with "our logs dont show blah blah").
I've also personally witnessed people not posting their losses (and their kills) because they're not really PvPers and dont even have the password to their own corp/alliance killboard, so couldn't post it even if they wanted to. These types of people are usually support, or targets to distract primary fire from the real damage dealers, and thus wont be getting the killmails often (when they do the killboard-*****s will ***** at em until they do post the kills, or send copy via eve-mail so they can post for them). So you'll see them on some kills as the non-final blow, and low on the list for damage, a few rare instances where they get the final mail, and someone else posts it for them, and almost 0 losses (save for those that the enemy posts on a 'linked' killboard type system). As they simply don't know how to post kills or losses, and/or don't have the password.
Those are some of the reasons, some fairly valid, some less so. Of course kill-*****s should feel free to think that everyone is trying to cut off their e-peen.
NOTE: I DO post all my losses (well, my main does ;P). But I don't think killboards are the be all end all measure of jack-****e. I can gank noobs in Y-M or HED or EC- all day too, in a stabbed sniper, and have 0 losses and ****loads of kills. But it's stupid, and pointless, and in no way shows you are a decent fighter.
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Marsha11
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Posted - 2006.06.01 23:36:00 -
[10]
We dont post losses because its up to the other corp who killed us to post, then it gets posted as a loss on our killboard.
But tbh we dont really loose much so its hardly a crime in our case...
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Randay
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Posted - 2006.06.01 23:43:00 -
[11]
killboards are the same as these forums. on one hand it can be a great source of information, on the other hand it is also a great source of drama.
other people not posting thier losses should not even be a concern of yours. you should only care about the accuracy of your own killboard, and your members/corps/alliances. I find it equally, if not a whole lot more pathetic when a person whines about someone else not posting thier killmail. Ive never needed to go to my victims killboard to see my killmails, all I have to do is click on the mail button in game and voila, i have a copy of it right there. as long as your own killboard is accurate, there is no good reason to give a crap about the other guys board.
the killboard *****s(i guess you can call them that) are the only ones who care. they just play the epeen game and try to superinflate thier egos.
as for why some people dont post, perhaps they just dont want to give the *****s the satisfaction, or perhaps they themselves are the *****s and are completely ashamed at thier loss. also its true that some just dont care or dont know. killboards are an out of game mechanic, its like asking why doesnt everybody post on these forums.
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Apparently the Swedish language is against the rules of the forums. |
SLIM
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Posted - 2006.06.01 23:45:00 -
[12]
A good question. The reason I see most often is to keep up their propaganda. I haven't seen many other valid reasons.
To be honest, having an accurate killboard is better for the corp itself. For every one of our losses, there's usually a pretty good story. I've learned many a trick vicariously, just from asking people how they got caught. Also, it helps leadership show who is sucking at life and needs either mentoring or a boot (depending on circumstances).
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jbob2000
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Posted - 2006.06.01 23:50:00 -
[13]
I know that we don't post our loses. We only like to glorify our kills, and not our losses. Our killboard isn't given out/advertised like others, and we are by no means stating that we keep it accurate.
Our killboard is more for our own glory.
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StiZum Hilidii
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Posted - 2006.06.01 23:53:00 -
[14]
we have people the go over peoples kb in order to try and catch mistakes.
and i have dealt with this in the past the same as every ceo in bob does.
if a loss is missing send it to us and we will make sure our kb is updates.
had one the other day, he sent me the killmail, i put it up and send him an note expressing my thanks for helping me keep an very accurate kb.
so simple solution if a loss isnt posted send it to their ceo,
FREE PERSON OF EARTH AGAINST EVE IN COMMUNIST CHINA
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.06.01 23:56:00 -
[15]
FIX has a very strong policy of posting losses. Some stupid carebears probably don't, but I have often gone to post losses before even grabbing another ship: the impulse is just that strong.
Its important not to be ashamed of losses: they're part of the game, and you're only lying to yourself.
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Kaleeb
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Posted - 2006.06.02 00:21:00 -
[16]
The game would be better without killmails, less people would be afraid to fight and we wouldnt have the endless killboard posting arguments on losses etc. Admittedly we would get the debate on who killed what and how many argument again 
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Tree Fiddy
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Posted - 2006.06.02 00:26:00 -
[17]
Whats the big deal about posting loss mails, surely if you want to know how many ships someone has lost to x then you look at x's killboard, its not rocket science ffs.
I say I ain't giving you no tree fiddy you goddamned Loch Ness monster. |
Netto
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Posted - 2006.06.02 00:26:00 -
[18]
Here's a question - Why do you care?
Personally, I post 100% of my losses, but it's to keep track of how I'm doing as a pilot. I certainly don't go to other peoples KB's and rummage around seeing if they posted their loss. I could give a rats behind.
If you want to compare kills and losses from a campaign, look at their killboard for your losses, and your killboard for their losses. If that sounds like too much trouble to you, then maybe the information isn't that important after all?
Trust me, when I first really got into pvp, the epeen I got from KB's was mighty, I was a KB ***** and whined at everyone to post their losses, but as time went on, I just don't care anymore. I'm more concerned about getting enough time home to even play the game, and when I do, to make stuff blow up.
Netto
Celestial Fleet - We care. |
Asia Carerra
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Posted - 2006.06.02 00:26:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Randay
Very good points made....
/signed and to add to it, most "real" PVPers don't care about epeenboards, not 1 is 100% accurate and the time taken to post a "notch on the bedpost" is time that could be used killing someone else, or preparing to for that matter.
yes this is an alt, but only 'cause my main is inactive for a short vacation!
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Pepperami
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Posted - 2006.06.02 00:30:00 -
[20]
Why? Because a lot of players hate to admit loss, sometimes people consider the kill insignificant (frig sniped by pos? shuttle ganked at gate?).
Personally I'm willing to post kills of V members who don't post (assuming I don't get spammed!) and if I find myself posting someone elses deathmail, I am sure to let them know that they better start posting it themselves.
Generally it's hard to enforce unless you have enough people willing to make it as hard as possible on the members who don't post, or you choose to impose fines. Generally I find the more active pvp'ers keep quite accurate records and that's a good start..
[Art of War][- V -] |
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Uggs386
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Posted - 2006.06.02 00:41:00 -
[21]
I post losses to monitor how I'm doing, I could careless about killboards, I just find it useful to keep track of how I'm doing. But arguing over killboards is pointless imo.
Removed, inappropriate signature image - zhuge |
Lorth
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Posted - 2006.06.02 01:06:00 -
[22]
Frankly I don't care if who ever I'm fighting posts thier losses or not. Nor do i ever care to here we are winning because our kill board show X number of kills vs only Y numbers of losses.
Frankly, I've seen wars won by the side with the most losses. G vs ASCN would be a good example of this. I don't think there's any doubt that ASCN lost more ships, but in the end, they kept thier space, and G went back home.
Eve isn't a FPS, and thats why killmails matter little if at all in the final out come of things. I don't care if people post thier losses. Nor do I care if they evne post thier kills.
At the end of the day, success in eve isn't measure in kill mails, but in the ability to show up.
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Goberth Ludwig
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Posted - 2006.06.02 01:09:00 -
[23]
Personally I always post lossmails, but its common when killing npcers or miners that they wont postt the killmail.
Heck some of em might have never opened the killbaord either o_o'' !
- Gob
[IXC] Admiral Goberius |
Rule2k
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Posted - 2006.06.02 01:19:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Rule2k on 02/06/2006 01:18:52
And some boards dont even have Loss section's
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Rule2k
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Posted - 2006.06.02 01:20:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Rule2k on 02/06/2006 01:20:00
whoops
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SATAN
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Posted - 2006.06.02 01:23:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Kaleeb
The game would be better without killmails, less people would be afraid to fight and we wouldnt have the endless killboard posting arguments on losses etc. Admittedly we would get the debate on who killed what and how many argument again
I have to disagree before killmails you always had people judge another persons/corp based on hear say and forum dribble.
Now all you need to do is look at their actions rather than their forum posts.
If you dont post your losses than you might as well not post your kills. In UDIE if you dont post your losses you get a serious chewing out by me. And you will start posting ALL of them or you will not be in the corp for much longer.
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Daald
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Posted - 2006.06.02 01:32:00 -
[27]
Quote:
I have to disagree before killmails you always had people judge another persons/corp based on hear say and forum dribble.
Lol, what has changed exactly?
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Logic is a systematic method of coming to the wrong conclusion with confidence.
-Murphy |
Rasta Rocketman
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Posted - 2006.06.02 01:47:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Randay
killboards are the same as these forums. on one hand it can be a great source of information, on the other hand it is also a great source of drama.
other people not posting thier losses should not even be a concern of yours. you should only care about the accuracy of your own killboard, and your members/corps/alliances. I find it equally, if not a whole lot more pathetic when a person whines about someone else not posting thier killmail. Ive never needed to go to my victims killboard to see my killmails, all I have to do is click on the mail button in game and voila, i have a copy of it right there. as long as your own killboard is accurate, there is no good reason to give a crap about the other guys board.
the killboard *****s(i guess you can call them that) are the only ones who care. they just play the epeen game and try to superinflate thier egos.
as for why some people dont post, perhaps they just dont want to give the *****s the satisfaction, or perhaps they themselves are the *****s and are completely ashamed at thier loss. also its true that some just dont care or dont know. killboards are an out of game mechanic, its like asking why doesnt everybody post on these forums.
First, if killboards were not used as marketing tools for a corps image and in turn for recruiting purposes, then yes you have a point. Lets face it though, any PvPer or PvP corp worth their salt judges other PvP corps by their effectiveness at killing...which is directly reflected in that corps killboard. Simple as that.
Also, killmails and in turn killboards are the ONLY factual source of the results of PvP operations. Forum fiction simply cannot be proven except for using killmails, so they serve a very good purpose.
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DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2006.06.02 02:09:00 -
[29]
Lets ask the offending parties.. shall we?
Quote:
DigitalCommunist > I have a question.
Amasera > yes?
DigitalCommunist > Does your alliance track these mails?
DigitalCommunist > Surely you have a killboard.
Amasera > yes we do
DigitalCommunist > Can you provide me with a link to your loss?
Amasera > never entered it.
Amasera > not interested in tracking wins or losses
Liet Kynes > how honest of you
DigitalCommunist > Wait, another question.. if I may.
Amasera > shoot
Amasera > I mean, ask away :)
DigitalCommunist > Is this freedom available to all VC members, or a personal choice you've made?
Amasera > just a matter of laziness, really
Amasera > I'd rather spend my time in game than stroking the e-peen out of game
DigitalCommunist > Ah, so you've disregarded this concept entirely. Does your corp follow the same principle?
Amasera > no just me, besides it twas the rats that got the ships not the gankers.
Seems to be a combination of shame, and poor enforcement of the rules.
Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame.
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Randay
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Posted - 2006.06.02 02:13:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Rasta Rocketman
First, if killboards were not used as marketing tools for a corps image and in turn for recruiting purposes, then yes you have a point. Lets face it though, any PvPer or PvP corp worth their salt judges other PvP corps by their effectiveness at killing...which is directly reflected in that corps killboard. Simple as that.
I dont see how this applies to my post at all. I clearly state that killboards can be a great source of information.
Originally by: Rasta Rocketman
Also, killmails and in turn killboards are the ONLY factual source of the results of PvP operations. Forum fiction simply cannot be proven except for using killmails, so they serve a very good purpose.
This is not true, killboards are not the ONLY "factual" source of information in regards to an entities pvp exploits. In fact, almost no details can be mined from a killboard without assuming many variables, which then turns fact to fiction. While its possible to logically come to the currect conclusion about a battle, its also very easy to cme to the wrong conclusions.
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Apparently the Swedish language is against the rules of the forums. |
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