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Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
380
   |
Posted - 2014.05.25 00:10:00 -
[31] - Quote
This change would just make more centralization and give power to big alliances, as long as lowsec has no bubbles you just need a personal pos in system where nobody can bump you out and you can still leave them there 100% safely.
This solves nothing any the only thing could result from this is more power to the null blocs and everyone else has to leave supers in lowsec or have them get rapecaged and killed.
EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
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Captain Finklestein
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
25
|
Posted - 2014.05.25 00:20:00 -
[32] - Quote
This doesn't "solve nothing".
Right now a super fleet can jump into any non-cynojammed system of their choice, log off, and wait for the perfect time to log back in.
The OPs idea would have them forced to setup POS and such in that system in order to pull off the same tactic.
It's a great idea. However, what happens if I'm about to warp to a POS and my internet cuts out?
Does the game really leave me out in space for the next 35 minutes until I'm tackled and killed?
I still like the idea but kinks like that would need to be worked out.
It's just more financially viable for me. |
Bohneik Itohn
Periphery Bound
168
|
Posted - 2014.05.25 00:43:00 -
[33] - Quote
Captain Finklestein wrote:This doesn't "solve nothing".
Right now a super fleet can jump into any non-cynojammed system of their choice, log off, and wait for the perfect time to log back in.
The OPs idea would have them forced to setup POS and such in that system in order to pull off the same tactic.
It's a great idea. However, what happens if I'm about to warp to a POS and my internet cuts out?
Does the game really leave me out in space for the next 35 minutes until I'm tackled and killed?
I still like the idea but kinks like that would need to be worked out.
What if you were able to tag your own Emergency log off safes as a supercap pilot?
Set a bookmark in the POS, tag it as a log off safe. When the game detects that you've disconnected without logging off safely the supercap will automatically warp to that safe instead of doing the "Warp 1 AU in a random direction and wait for timers to expire" thing ships currently do. |
Saisin
State War Academy
Caldari State
15
|
Posted - 2014.05.25 01:18:00 -
[34] - Quote
+1 for this..
Each super in a POS could also act as an extra amount of strontium to make these POSes invulnerability last a bit longer because of the supers docked there, forcing more time commitment for the attackers and giving more time to the defenders to use their batphones. |
Swiftstrike1
Swiftstrike Incorporated
664
|
Posted - 2014.05.25 01:25:00 -
[35] - Quote
+1 for a "Super Capital Log-Off Timer". Keeps you in space just like the existing PVE and PVP log-off timers with the vital difference that it does not run down while you are in a super capital ship.
Fleet Bookmarks
New Gravimetric Sites
Med Clones 2.0 |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1430
|
Posted - 2014.05.25 04:13:00 -
[36] - Quote
Captain Finklestein wrote:It's a great idea. However, what happens if I'm about to warp to a POS and my internet cuts out?
Does the game really leave me out in space for the next 35 minutes until I'm tackled and killed?
In my suggestion, if your super were owned by your corp, the CEO or a director with the right role could boot you from the super and have someone else hop in and fly it to the POS. That is assuming, of course, that your corp is aware you disconnected and they have another pilot available for it.
Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance)
And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
139
|
Posted - 2014.05.25 04:37:00 -
[37] - Quote
While I don't have supers, this does not sound unreasonable. An alliance that can afford a super should be able to afford a place to park it. |
mbass
235MeV
1
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Posted - 2014.05.26 21:52:00 -
[38] - Quote
+1 to original post |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
3968
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 23:12:00 -
[39] - Quote
The reason this proposal is so shortsighted:
1.) Supers are NOT Corp / Alliance assets. Pragmatically, whomever is piloting the super is the owner of the super, no matter what effort went into obtaining it. Everything in a POS is a corp asset, as the items within are ALWAYS accessible by various members of a corp. Your proposal would force individuals whom own a super to suddenly share an extremely large-value asset with their corp members. Forcing players to give their high-value personal assets to a corp will cause a LOT of problems!
2.) The only means to "secure" these vessels would then involve creating 1-man corps (or corps with only a few select trusted members). This would have major gameplay "fun" issues centering dealing with POS fueling, corp management, and other wonky and/or tedious tasks.
3.) This would have a very brutal impact on "smaller" alliances/coalitions in Nullsec. When you cannot despawn a super, then you cannot store it in nullsec unless you can confidently defend it. For example, if my corp ever obtained a titan, we could NEVER keep it in nullsec (where we live). This is because any larger group could bubble wrap and RF our POS, trapping the super for the entire RF cycle. Even if we managed to summon a 100 pilot fleet, it would be easily crushed by most large alliances out there. As such, we'd have to keep the supers in lowsec, which is often far from our base of operations. This poses additional constraints and difficulties.
4.) Why? Why make owning a supercarrier or titan more difficult? Supers are GREAT at destroying structures and capital ships. They usually suck at killing subcaps, and are vulnerable to a subcap fleet. The biggest advantage supers provide involves removing enemy capitals from the field and rapidly grinding structures. This makes them very important to the Sov game, but if we instead revamp the Sov system away from the insane clockwork structure shoot, a corp that can wield 5000 supers isn't that much better than a corp that can't wield 1. I don't see the need for this ****-all-super-pilots change, as it doesn't actually fix ANYTHING that is broken in this game. |
Aversun
Systems Federation
Coalition of Galactic Unity
27
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 23:27:00 -
[40] - Quote
Maybe to help rebalance, all ships left in space should be left spawned, so its still fair for everyone |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
3971
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 23:32:00 -
[41] - Quote
Aversun wrote:Maybe to help rebalance, all ships left in space should be left spawned, so its still fair for everyone
Not quite extreme enough... We should get rid of person station hangars, too. All your ships will be in a corp hangar. All you items in a corp hangar. All your iskies in a corp wallet. We can have one big communal game.
Look at the bright side, this would eliminate players staying in NPC corps! |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
1632
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 23:40:00 -
[42] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Not quite extreme enough... We should get rid of person station hangars, too. All your ships will be in a corp hangar. All you items in a corp hangar. All your iskies in a corp wallet. We can have one big communal game.
Look at the bright side, this would eliminate players staying in NPC corps!
Sure. Every player would have 1 Corp that they put all their alts in and let no one else into.
Would turn Corps from a social environment into the default personal wallet and hanger.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
. -á<- Argue this, not this ->-á( -í-¦ -£-û -í-¦) |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
3971
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 23:43:00 -
[43] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Not quite extreme enough... We should get rid of person station hangars, too. All your ships will be in a corp hangar. All you items in a corp hangar. All your iskies in a corp wallet. We can have one big communal game.
Look at the bright side, this would eliminate players staying in NPC corps! Sure. Every player would have 1 Corp that they put all their alts in and let no one else into. Would turn Corps from a social environment into the default personal wallet and hanger.
Can you imagine the corp bills you'd have to pay in Mission and Trade hubs? Since you don't have a corp hangar until you rent an office, the limits on offices and the scaling rental fees would be insane!
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Malcolm Malicious
Malware Detected
Brave Collective
65
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Posted - 2014.05.27 00:07:00 -
[44] - Quote
Just delete supers and titans from the game, problem solved. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1452
|
Posted - 2014.05.27 03:04:00 -
[45] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Everything in a POS is a corp asset, as the items within are ALWAYS accessible by various members of a corp.
The only means to "secure" these vessels would then involve creating 1-man corps (or corps with only a few select trusted members). This would have major gameplay "fun" issues centering dealing with POS fueling, corp management, and other wonky and/or tedious tasks. Currently everything in a POS is accessible to the running corp, but there is no coding in the game that says that has to be true. If titans were left in space when the player logged out, the player would still be in that titan, and nobody else could enter it.
I don't see how this suggestion would force supers to become corp assets.
Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance)
And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
Arronicus
X-Prot
Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
995
|
Posted - 2014.05.27 04:38:00 -
[46] - Quote
Ellendras Silver wrote:Axe Coldon wrote:I would like to see the reverse. Supers should be able to dock in stations! i would like a blowjob from Mila Kunis, but i don`t see either of that happening in the near future 
Mine came in the mail just the other day. It wasn't that bad really, for a magazine with a hole cut in it.
As for the OP's ideas on supers and titans.... toplel. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
3971
|
Posted - 2014.05.27 05:19:00 -
[47] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Everything in a POS is a corp asset, as the items within are ALWAYS accessible by various members of a corp.
The only means to "secure" these vessels would then involve creating 1-man corps (or corps with only a few select trusted members). This would have major gameplay "fun" issues centering dealing with POS fueling, corp management, and other wonky and/or tedious tasks. Currently everything in a POS is accessible to the running corp, but there is no coding in the game that says that has to be true. If titans were left in space when the player logged out, the player would still be in that titan, and nobody else could enter it. I don't see how this suggestion would force supers to become corp assets.
You are correct that you don't have to store the super in a CSMA. If you keep your character in it 100% of the time, you will retain ownership of the super. But, where do you store the "logged off but not despawned" super?
Even the most tanky super is less than 50m EHP, which can be easily destroyed within a single siege cycle by a coordinated drop of 20 dreads. The ONLY way to keep the ship safe, is to prevent it from being attacked. How do you prevent it from being attacked?
The only "in space" location that is impervious to attack is behind a POS FF. However, anyone that gets inside the FF can easily bump it out of the POS FF unless its in a CSMA. Anyone with the critical corp roles can steal it from a CSMA. And in either situation, anyone with access to POS critical roles can simply offline the POS so it can be attacked. As such, while you can retain "ownership" by leaving your character in it, you still need to entrust your corp with its existence, as any corp mate with the critical roles can set up its destruction. The net result is that the number of people responsible for keeping your super safe increases from one (you as the pilot) to all your corp mates with critical roles. I'd argue that pragmatically makes it a corp asset, even if you keep prevent them utilizing it by having a pilot in the super 24/7.
I'm very much in a "death to all supers" mindframe, I just want them to die in combat, and not while the owner is logged off unable to defend it.
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Thercon Jair
Nex Exercitus
Northern Coalition.
1
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Posted - 2014.05.27 06:47:00 -
[48] - Quote
Brilliant. So every player needs to be able to log in within a reinforcement timer or runs the risk of losing their supercapital without the ability to do anything about it. It's still a game and it ceases to be one when you can't take a couple days off for your real life.
Also, an alliance that can field more pilots around the clock than another alliance would totally and utterly destroy the whole supercapital power of the smaller entity. "I better go and apply to goons" then seems to be the best solution if you want to fly a super. |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
433
|
Posted - 2014.05.27 07:32:00 -
[49] - Quote
Thercon Jair wrote:Brilliant. So every player needs to be able to log in within a reinforcement timer or runs the risk of losing their supercapital without the ability to do anything about it. It's still a game and it ceases to be one when you can't take a couple days off for your real life.
That be my issue with this idea. I actually have a life and take vacations...and since I have a kid they usually involve theme parks at some point.
Sorry son...can't go to disney today my pos is dying so have to move the mommie out when not camped hard. Maybe we can go tomorrow. Yep...this is why I paid lots of money to stay at a disney resort, to play eve.
Cool these neck beards take a laptop wherever they go (if they actually leave the house that is). Me...the laptop often stays at home. iPad does me fine for most everything on vacation
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Foxstar Damaskeenus
Biohazard.
WINMATAR.
141
|
Posted - 2014.05.27 08:13:00 -
[50] - Quote
All supers must die. |
wopolusa
The Southern Legion
Final Resolution.
1
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Posted - 2014.05.27 16:10:00 -
[51] - Quote
While I like the intention it just won't work. It makes bigger alliances have yet another massive advantage over smaller ones. Worse still, players would just warp to a safe spot, cloak, and leave their client running DT to DT if they are in any real danger of loss (i.e during a POS reinforcement timer)
The only way I could see this working is with a 'hibernation' mode that did what logging off does now. But the ship couldn't do anything for 24h once turned off or something (To prevent people using it like logging off is used now). This would give players who sit in a POS the benefit of immediate use when needed, and encourage a little activity/putting yourself at risk for benefit, and allow holiday-goers safety. But it still doesn't solve cloaking or large alliance benefits. |
Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
399
|
Posted - 2014.05.27 19:05:00 -
[52] - Quote
What if I want to stop playing the game for a while? Can't fuel a POS nor protect it if I want to take a vacation. So I would lose my super unless I kept playing the game indefinitely, or would need to sell it? This on top of all the other drawbacks supers already have? No thanks. This would literally make me quit the game. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1454
|
Posted - 2014.05.27 19:46:00 -
[53] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:The only "in space" location that is impervious to attack is behind a POS FF. However, anyone that gets inside the FF can easily bump it out of the POS FF unless its in a CSMA. The obvious answer is to allow supers to be anchored. I don't see how this small point negates the original post. If you think allowing them to be anchored is bad, then lets discuss that. Lets brainstorm options, not assume the OP is bad because it doesn't work exactly as described on the tin.
Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance)
And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
Bohneik Itohn
Periphery Bound
202
|
Posted - 2014.05.27 21:54:00 -
[54] - Quote
Money Makin Mitch wrote:What if I want to stop playing the game for a while? Can't fuel a POS nor protect it if I want to take a vacation. So I would lose my super unless I kept playing the game indefinitely, or would need to sell it? This on top of all the other drawbacks supers already have? No thanks. This would literally make me quit the game.
No but really, if you sold it for plex and held the plex during your Hiatus to buy a new super, you'd probably make a profit.
Freyya:
Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?! |
Trin Javidan
Caymen Labs
22
|
Posted - 2014.05.27 21:55:00 -
[55] - Quote
so only the big power blocs can have supers rite? And ofc juicy killmails form others...
Why not nerf small sov holding corps rite away |
Bohneik Itohn
Periphery Bound
202
|
Posted - 2014.05.27 22:05:00 -
[56] - Quote
Guys... Supers were never supposed to be the responsibility of one player, they were always meant to require the support of people you trust. corp/alliance members or otherwise. If you're worried about blues stealing or destroying your super, your issue is that you still have them labeled blue, not that they'll steal or destroy your super.
Think this goes against everything Eve teaches? I think it is right in line with everything Eve teaches. Why should your corpmates help you maintain your super when you're on vacation? Because someday they'll be on vacation, and if they **** you over they set a precedent for the guy they trust with their super when they need assistance. Yes there will be times when the irresponsible players go ahead and **** you over regardless of the consequences, but that's part of the risk that was always intended to exist within any corporation, otherwise all corporate assets would be 100% secure. Not hard to put those mechanics in the game.
Oh, isn't it funny how supers are some of the most valuable assets an Alliance can own, yet are pretty much the only thing that can be kept 100% safe by doing what is literally the equivalent of nothing?
Freyya:
Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?! |
Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
399
|
Posted - 2014.05.27 22:26:00 -
[57] - Quote
Bohneik Itohn wrote:Money Makin Mitch wrote:What if I want to stop playing the game for a while? Can't fuel a POS nor protect it if I want to take a vacation. So I would lose my super unless I kept playing the game indefinitely, or would need to sell it? This on top of all the other drawbacks supers already have? No thanks. This would literally make me quit the game. No but really, if you sold it for plex and held the plex during your Hiatus to buy a new super, you'd probably make a profit.
**** that. If I need to go through the hassle of selling my super, then buying one, moving it, fitting it, etc. every time I want to take even just a week or two off, it is not worth owning one at all. |
Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
399
|
Posted - 2014.05.27 22:29:00 -
[58] - Quote
Bohneik Itohn wrote:Guys... Supers were never supposed to be the responsibility of one player, they were always meant to require the support of people you trust. corp/alliance members or otherwise. If you're worried about blues stealing or destroying your super, your issue is that you still have them labeled blue, not that they'll steal or destroy your super.
Think this goes against everything Eve teaches? I think it is right in line with everything Eve teaches. Why should your corpmates help you maintain your super when you're on vacation? Because someday they'll be on vacation, and if they **** you over they set a precedent for the guy they trust with their super when they need assistance. Yes there will be times when the irresponsible players go ahead and **** you over regardless of the consequences, but that's part of the risk that was always intended to exist within any corporation, otherwise all corporate assets would be 100% secure. Not hard to put those mechanics in the game.
Oh, isn't it funny how supers are some of the most valuable assets an Alliance can own, yet are pretty much the only thing that can be kept 100% safe by doing what is literally the equivalent of nothing?
Meh. If I paid for my super 100% on my own, then it belongs to nobody but me. I'll be damned if I'm going to put it into the hands of other people, anyone at all, whenever I want to log out or go away for a while. Blue or not, I don't just hand over multi-billion isk assets to people... ever. |
Bohneik Itohn
Periphery Bound
202
|
Posted - 2014.05.27 22:42:00 -
[59] - Quote
Money Makin Mitch wrote:Bohneik Itohn wrote:Guys... Supers were never supposed to be the responsibility of one player, they were always meant to require the support of people you trust. corp/alliance members or otherwise. If you're worried about blues stealing or destroying your super, your issue is that you still have them labeled blue, not that they'll steal or destroy your super.
Think this goes against everything Eve teaches? I think it is right in line with everything Eve teaches. Why should your corpmates help you maintain your super when you're on vacation? Because someday they'll be on vacation, and if they **** you over they set a precedent for the guy they trust with their super when they need assistance. Yes there will be times when the irresponsible players go ahead and **** you over regardless of the consequences, but that's part of the risk that was always intended to exist within any corporation, otherwise all corporate assets would be 100% secure. Not hard to put those mechanics in the game.
Oh, isn't it funny how supers are some of the most valuable assets an Alliance can own, yet are pretty much the only thing that can be kept 100% safe by doing what is literally the equivalent of nothing? Meh. If I paid for my super 100% on my own, then it belongs to nobody but me. I'll be damned if I'm going to put it into the hands of other people, anyone at all, whenever I want to log out or go away for a while. Blue or not, I don't just hand over multi-billion isk assets to people... ever.
And you're welcome to take that responsibility. Doesn't change the fact that supers were intended to be something that required the cooperation of an entire network of people to maintain. People have found ways to work around those mechanics, mostly with alts, but that doesn't mean that was CCP's intention.
There are a lot of purist PvPers out there who swear they are the sole creators of content and anyone who isn't doing exactly as they're doing is failing at Eve. One of CCP's ways of creating content was by putting things in the game that required people to interact with each other either positively or negatively, and give them the choice of which it would be today. Supers are one of those things. I find it impressive you maintain yours without relying on other people, but to me that seems a bit like the carebears who stay in high sec because they don't want people shooting at their Raven. There is minimizing risk and then there is hiding from it entirely.
Freyya:
Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?! |
Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
399
|
Posted - 2014.05.27 23:12:00 -
[60] - Quote
Bohneik Itohn wrote:
And you're welcome to take that responsibility. Doesn't change the fact that supers were intended to be something that required the cooperation of an entire network of people to maintain. People have found ways to work around those mechanics, mostly with alts, but that doesn't mean that was CCP's intention.
There are a lot of purist PvPers out there who swear they are the sole creators of content and anyone who isn't doing exactly as they're doing is failing at Eve. One of CCP's ways of creating content was by putting things in the game that required people to interact with each other either positively or negatively, and give them the choice of which it would be today. Supers are one of those things. I find it impressive you maintain yours without relying on other people, but to me that seems a bit like the carebears who stay in high sec because they don't want people shooting at their Raven. There is minimizing risk and then there is hiding from it entirely.
Taking that responsibility = minimizing risk by fueling my own tower, lighting my own cynos, and only trusting myself as to when or when not to use my super. That is already enough imo. I shouldn't be penalized whenever I want to go on vacation or take a break. I'd like to see you just hand over 30b to your corp every time you need a week off. |
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