Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Anya Dyonas
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 06:18:00 -
[1] - Quote
The basic premise here will center around the idea that Supercarriers and Titans should not disappear when the pilot logs off.
Now, that you are angry and confused, hear me out on this.
Supers and Titans cannot dock, through the theory that 'they are too big to dock'. The intent of the game designers was that this vessel should always be in-play. It is so valuable, and so special, that you should have to work to keep it. However, this mechanic was easily bypassed by the creation of Log-off Alts. And, fair enough. I would do the same as a super capital pilot. Store your vessel in a place that is infinitely safe and secure forever. But, therein lies the problem. This is the complete opposite of the design intent. Rather than being the most vulnerable of vessels, they are the LEAST vulnerable of all vessels. They only EXIST when the pilot is reasonably certain of security and victory. Otherwise, they are hidden in oblivion, safe and secure forever.
The game has a POS module designed specifically for storing supers and titans. This was intended to give the pilots a real place to dump their supers when they are not in use, rather than relying on Log-off Alts. Obviously, this a far less secure way to store the vessel, so it's use has been extremely limited.
With the suggestion from the devs that 'all things should be destructible', then that surely includes stations built by players in Sov space. When those stations blow up, surely everything within them will also be permanently destroyed. It seems unfair that all of the assets of a non-super pilot could be lost forever while super pilots have their most valuable assets stored in an invincible and invisible location.
So, the solution is to have all supers and titans forever 'in-play'. That means they never disappear from space. You can store them in the previously mentioned POS module to keep they from prying eyes and in the safety of a POS RF timer, but logging off with them in-space will simply result in the vessel staying right there, in space, idle.
I know most super pilots will scream 'shinanigans' at this suggestion. Heck, you probably would never have trained or bought the vessel if you didn't know you could secure it via Log-off Alt when you don't want to play with it. And, that is a fair reaction. Such a change of game mechanic would definitely be pulling the rug out from under you. However, this should be the price of having a super capital ship. It should be a chore. It should be a burden. It is not a weapon. It is a SUPER weapon. Thus is should come with extra burden and responsibility to own.
Now, hear me out on the applications in alliance wars, and think of the impact it could have. Suddenly, you cannot just invade a region of null and have these giant armies of supers on a whim. You need to work out the logistics for front-line POS structures to house your army of supers. That army of supers is vulnerable AFTER the battle, when you would otherwise just log them off.
Your supers are always vulnerable, but so are your enemy's. That means if an ally back-stabs you, then you can hit them where it hurts later, getting proper revenge.
Having the supers always in-play will change the commitment and investment of attacking with supers, and the logistics of defending space that houses supers. It will raise questions like "Is it worth the burden to involve the supers in this fight/campaign?" It will push the consequences of people's actions in the game to a new level of possibilities, which is exactly the 'sand box environment' eve is based on. |
Teeva Nakisti
In Your Base Killin Your Doods
1
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 06:30:00 -
[2] - Quote
+1
This. The world must burn! |
Mos7Wan7ed
Hardcore Industries
37
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 06:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
I like the idea of always in play.
If this was ever to be viable, there needs to be a place that is slightly more secure then a POS that would keep the supers safe, but not forever safe. Some place that could be hell camped too would be interesting. Something linked to Sov level 5. Something less public then a capital ship hanger array too.
A kinda rough Idea what it could be... Some kind of personal mobile super capital maintenance array. The array is anchored for self and is invulnerable and protected under sov similar to I-Hubs. Requires a sov 5 system and the person that anchored it to be in that alliance. If the player or corp leaves the alliance or the sov drops then the array becomes vulnerable. Give it a single reinforced timer.
Outside of this improved cocoon of protection, supers are vulnerable while logged off.
This would change how supers are used in a very fundamental ways. I kinda like it.
The hate that this thread is going to generate will be epic and that is fun too. |
Daniella Moonstorm
TwoTenX LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 07:45:00 -
[4] - Quote
+1 for the idea, +1 for the flame war. |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
2769
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 07:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
Mos7Wan7ed wrote: The hate that this thread is going to generate will be epic and that is fun too.
There won't be any hate.
People would simply never log supers off in space, and this change would be wasted. Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruitng members for lowsec PvP operations. Newbie friendly, free T1 frigate and dessy hangar, solo tutoring and PvP classes for new members. Join our in game channel 'weflyrifters' and speak to a recruiter today. |
Solutio Letum
Into the Ether Nulli Secunda
209
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 07:54:00 -
[6] - Quote
:P..... to hard to substain...
the only way to make this work is if the isk cost of having one is reduced to compensate maintaining it |
Renegade Dussault
Stability Significantly Disrupted
20
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 08:11:00 -
[7] - Quote
i bet you dont own a super or titan.. am i right? |
Markdl99
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
1
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 08:14:00 -
[8] - Quote
This is the most Terrible idea ive ever heard.
its like saving up in real life for a Ferrari and once u get 1 u leave it unlocked on a public parking lot.
People with super/titan spend months or maybe years training and saving up for a 130 billion isk ship and then u just stomp them to the ground and kill them without even able to defend themself ?
you prob came up to the idea of, hmm i want to kill some supercaps but i cant do this by myself. Hey i know lets propose they always in space so i can solo them over the night.
Supers and titan mechanics are balanced as it is. no need to nerf them even more.
|
ugh zug
97
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 08:47:00 -
[9] - Quote
*gets popcorn*
i agree with the op. Want me to shut up? Remove content from my post, 15 bil. Remove my content from a thread I have started 30bil. |
Walter Hart White
Heisenberg Minings
34
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 10:48:00 -
[10] - Quote
Seems like decent idea. Lots of tears would follow though. |
|
Ellendras Silver
My second corp
131
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 11:02:00 -
[11] - Quote
Markdl99 wrote:This is the most Terrible idea ive ever heard.
its like saving up in real life for a Ferrari and once u get 1 u leave it unlocked on a public parking lot.
People with super/titan spend months or maybe years training and saving up for a 130 billion isk ship and then u just stomp them to the ground and kill them without even able to defend themself ?
you prob came up to the idea of, hmm i want to kill some supercaps but i cant do this by myself. Hey i know lets propose they always in space so i can solo them over the night.
Supers and titan mechanics are balanced as it is. no need to nerf them even more.
maybe you need to take a deep breath and read the OP again!?
you can defend them, you can keep them in a POS but they will allways be visable so if a POS hold a lot of supers it might be attacked and the corp/alliance should be aware of this. i totaly agree on the OP it is too easy to log off a super or titan and keep it perfectly safe even if you loose all your space that is unrealistic.
so a +1 for me on the OP Carpe noctem |
Fayde Sinulf
Lonestar Distribution Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 11:38:00 -
[12] - Quote
I agree with this proposal. If the largest most powerful ships in the game can easily hide away then what risk is there attached to them? Everything should have risk, especially in war.
This would drive a new style of gameplay as someone mentioned with logistics (meaning moving people and gear, not repping in fights) and staging areas taking on a much greater importance while all the while hoping someone isnt watching you and keeping tabs on where you fleets are. Sov war would have a new "cat and mouse" dynamic with each side trying to find out where the supers were so they can attack them at the right moment. and if done correclty deliver a knock out blow.
Lets not forget thats what the Japanese tried at Pearl Harbour. Deliver a single blow to the US fleet to incapacitate them .
Fortune favours the bold so lets give people a chance to prove it. |
Gay Pornstar
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 11:48:00 -
[13] - Quote
So, what? Supers stay in space? Do you sell logoff alts? Because besides a buff to Intel this is pretty much the change. |
Shivanthar
Ace's and Eight's Brothers of Tangra
86
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 12:45:00 -
[14] - Quote
+1
Agreed. An intented action is never ment to be broken by any workaround that bypasses the intent. Point. Having trained for a super thing that has a workaround which strengthens its defense (of being invulnerable) unintentionally is no excuse. Those 130b. ships must be destroyed because, OP is providing the intented behavior. >xD Half the lies they tell about me aren't true. |
Ellendras Silver
My second corp
131
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 13:17:00 -
[15] - Quote
Gay Pornstar wrote:So, what? Supers stay in space? Do you sell logoff alts? Because besides a buff to Intel this is pretty much the change.
i truly think you dont see the full picture here, if supers and titans stay in space people will use cloakies to scout for a POS with juicy "loot" read supers and titans, then attack that POS. ofc you can jump out the POS but you will need to make an effort to keep your stuff safe. this tactic can also be used to force someone to jump out titans out of a specific system to make bridging to another tactic location harder or even impossible. Carpe noctem |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
652
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 13:32:00 -
[16] - Quote
Anya Dyonas wrote: With the suggestion from the devs that 'all things should be destructible', then that surely includes stations built by players in Sov space. When those stations blow up, surely everything within them will also be permanently destroyed. It seems unfair that all of the assets of a non-super pilot could be lost forever while super pilots have their most valuable assets stored in an invincible and invisible location.
If your really that bothered about it you can always store anything valuable in a carrier or orca or similiar and log it off to (or use it to evac your stuff (station alt) once the station has switched hands and things have quietened down).
Main problem I see with this idea is that it plays right into the hands of whoever has the biggest force(s) and forces smaller entities to play the bigger entities' games.
|
Kristoff Merkas
Urkrathos Corp LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 13:37:00 -
[17] - Quote
This is an awful idea... Supers are already hard to keep; and often die in their excursions.
If you made Supers not be able to log off, random noobs in oracles would kill them in space! That is limiting people who have worked hard. I'll bet that the people supporting this have never even seen a Supercap; let alone consider flying one. They are already balanced ships; and albeit they are incredibly dangerous, to other caps; but they already cannot do many things except fight other caps!
So; before you propose these ideas, please, take a trip outside of Highsec, look at the current Nullsec environment, and by doing this you would notice that ALL small alliance supercaps would get murdered quite rapidly, thus eliminating any sense of defense that one of these alliances could have. Thus; encouraging the stagnation of the nullsec environment.
That's my 2 Cents. -Kristoff Merkas I am Loyal... Like a Dog. Give me a ship; give me food, and I'll stick by your side forever.
LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM FOREVER!!!! |
Ellendras Silver
My second corp
131
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 13:52:00 -
[18] - Quote
Kristoff Merkas wrote:This is an awful idea... Supers are already hard to keep; and often die in their excursions.
we seem to have a different opinion on hard and often
Quote: If you made Supers not be able to log off, random noobs in oracles would kill them in space! That is limiting people who have worked hard. I'll bet that the people supporting this have never even seen a Supercap; let alone consider flying one. They are already balanced ships; and albeit they are incredibly dangerous, to other caps; but they already cannot do many things except fight other caps!
worked hard? you mean had the patience to train all the skills? random noobs would only kill them in space if you let them, or are you saying you can be outplayed by a noob? i have been in 0.0 for long time and seen a lot of supers and titans and i have an ALT that can fly all supers (some better then others) i even have all the capital skills and can use fighter bombers, in time i definitly want one, hell i even have a sitter toon.
[quote[ So; before you propose these ideas, please, take a trip outside of Highsec, look at the current Nullsec environment, and by doing this you would notice that ALL small alliance supercaps would get murdered quite rapidly, thus eliminating any sense of defense that one of these alliances could have. Thus; encouraging the stagnation of the nullsec environment.
That's my 2 Cents. -Kristoff Merkas[/quote]
not perse but i see your point. you can OFC hop from a POS in reinforced to another one that is not in reinforced, and no matter what you change the smaller groups have it always harder then the biggest blobs. Carpe noctem |
Axe Coldon
41
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 13:55:00 -
[19] - Quote
I would like to see the reverse. Supers should be able to dock in stations! _________________________________________________________________________________________________ No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. |
Ellendras Silver
My second corp
131
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 14:14:00 -
[20] - Quote
Axe Coldon wrote:I would like to see the reverse. Supers should be able to dock in stations!
i would like a blowjob from Mila Kunis, but i don`t see either of that happening in the near future Carpe noctem |
|
FT Diomedes
The Graduates RAZOR Alliance
458
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 15:17:00 -
[21] - Quote
Ellendras Silver wrote:Axe Coldon wrote:I would like to see the reverse. Supers should be able to dock in stations! i would like a blowjob from Mila Kunis, but i don`t see either of that happening in the near future
You just are not wishing hard enough.
Perhaps supers will be able to dock when we get destructible stations. That way when you go away from the game for a month, you can lose absolutely EVERYTHING!
OP, your idea is bad because Eve is not real, it is a game. When I leave the game for a few hours or days, I should not have to worry that much about my stuff. This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine. |
Bohneik Itohn
Periphery Bound
148
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 15:48:00 -
[22] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Ellendras Silver wrote:Axe Coldon wrote:I would like to see the reverse. Supers should be able to dock in stations! i would like a blowjob from Mila Kunis, but i don`t see either of that happening in the near future You just are not wishing hard enough. Perhaps supers will be able to dock when we get destructible stations. That way when you go away from the game for a month, you can lose absolutely EVERYTHING! OP, your idea is bad because Eve is not real, it is a game. When I leave the game for a few hours or days, I should not have to worry that much about my stuff.
The issue is that you're worrying about a small probability of something happening in a game, while you should be living. |
Emma Muutaras
State War Academy Caldari State
17
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 15:54:00 -
[23] - Quote
to bring the pos module back into play i would make the simple change that you can't log off in a super you must first park it up in said pos or you can simply leave your holding toon perma logged sitting inside the pos shields
i would also give all player built stations a station upgrade to add up to 4 docking gantry's each allowing 2 supers to dock so a total of 8 supers could dock at a station at any 1 time the supers wouldn't disappear from space but you would see them docked at the gantry |
Tengu Grib
Maniacal Laughter Ltd. CODE.
108
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 16:16:00 -
[24] - Quote
Fayde Sinulf wrote:
Lets not forget thats what the Japanese tried at Pearl Harbour. Deliver a single blow to the US fleet to incapacitate them .
Fortune favours the bold so lets give people a chance to prove it.
And that attack at Pearl Harbour would have been the end of the pacific fleet, and would likely have ended the war against Japan before it even started.
This idea is interesting and has merit. Perhaps not precisely as imagined by the OP but I like the principle of having Supers always vulnerable (even if only a little vulnerable.) I also agree with the comment that there would have to be a way for the owners to be able to secure them from easy theft even while leaving them vulnerable to attack. Tengu Grib > I agree. The distinct lack of quality spaceships makes RL the worst space sim ever. SolidX > i'm an alt IRL Guilty conscience? Buy a mining permit today. www.minerbumping.com |
Tengu Grib
Maniacal Laughter Ltd. CODE.
108
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 16:17:00 -
[25] - Quote
Emma Muutaras wrote:to bring the pos module back into play i would make the simple change that you can't log off in a super you must first park it up in said pos or you can simply leave your holding toon perma logged sitting inside the pos shields
i would also give all player built stations a station upgrade to add up to 4 docking gantry's each allowing 2 supers to dock so a total of 8 supers could dock at a station at any 1 time the supers wouldn't disappear from space but you would see them docked at the gantry
flying up to a station and seeing all the titans docked at it. My god that would be an awesome sight to behold. Love that idea. Especially once stations are destructible. :D
Tengu Grib > I agree. The distinct lack of quality spaceships makes RL the worst space sim ever. SolidX > i'm an alt IRL Guilty conscience? Buy a mining permit today. www.minerbumping.com |
Flyinghotpocket
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
384
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 16:27:00 -
[26] - Quote
Markdl99 wrote:This is the most Terrible idea ive ever heard.
its like saving up in real life for a Ferrari and once u get 1 u leave it unlocked on a public parking lot.
so i guess once you get your Ferrari you leave it at the dealership surrounded by other Ferrari's and insured so just encase its stolen its covered? |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
1424
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 20:02:00 -
[27] - Quote
+15 for the idea, +2 for the tears. No exaggerations here.
The easy way to ease players into the new system would be to keep supers invisible until they log in for the first time after the change.
I'd like to see people be able to exit their supercapital ship. One change to make that possible would be to allow supers to be owned by a corporation, and for the ship to always be locked except to those who have authorized access, with corp directors who have the role able to force-eject a ppilot from a corp-owned super.
I think all capital ships should be locked when ejected in space, and should require a successful hacking attempt for an unauthorized pilot to board them. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
Bohneik Itohn
Periphery Bound
165
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 20:11:00 -
[28] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:+15 for the idea, +2 for the tears. No exaggerations here.
The easy way to ease players into the new system would be to keep supers invisible until they log in for the first time after the change.
I'd like to see people be able to exit their supercapital ship. One change to make that possible would be to allow supers to be owned by a corporation, and for the ship to always be locked except to those who have authorized access, with corp directors who have the role able to force-eject a ppilot from a corp-owned super.
I think all capital ships should be locked when ejected in space, and should require a successful hacking attempt for an unauthorized pilot to board them.
More stuff that can be stolen via one of the most vulnerable aspects of any technological device - it's physical electronics and software - is always good.
Hackers and Slicers were always one of my favorite roles to play in Tabletop Cyberpunk games. Eve has the potential to slake this void in my gaming soul but always falls short.
Hack the world. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
1426
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 20:26:00 -
[29] - Quote
Bohneik Itohn wrote:Hack the world. Only ships with no pilot in them, of course. But yes, hack the world!! I can't wait for CCP to do a pirate phase in which, over several years, every other expansion focuses on adding more mechanics for theft, hacking, scamming, pirating, ransoming, station-killing, killing players who are in stations or ships, and other excellent things!
Sam Harris wrote:I don't think we've offended these people enough. I propose all supercapitals make a warp beacon wherever they are in space, at all times.
But more supportive of our super pilots, I'd like to see larger towers have longer reinforce timers. I think this should also go along with an increase in fuel costs. Large towers shouldn't be the norm, they should be what you use to have a high level of security. I'd like to see their fuel costs multiplied several times over but also give them a long reinforce timer (like over a week) and their guns should be capable of blapping any subcapital when focusing fire through player control of the starbase turrets. They should also have a tremendous fuel bay with attachable modules for additional fuel storage and automatic loading, allowing them to go without re-fueling for months at a time. And their bubble should be bigger. It should have room for a bunch of supers.
Small towers should be the meat of maintaining sovereignty and performing basic POS functions. They should be cheap and efficient, and have a greater HP and defenses than their share of the cost of maintaining them. And all of them should be capable of holding several months' supply of fuel. The logistics of re-fueling lots of POSes is a nightmare. You might say that big alliances need to make sacrifices for holding sovereignty. I agree--but howabout instead of slowly killing their POS fuelers, they instead put a lot of money in the POS where it can be stolen through blowing up the tower and looting, getting a spy in the owning corp, or hacking it with some mechanic added in a later expansion? Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
Naglerr
235MeV
4
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 22:43:00 -
[30] - Quote
+1. This will generate fights and I like that. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |