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Armageddon - To Tachyon, or not to Tachyon, that is the question...

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Centauri	Posted - 2003.09.24 22:22:00 - [1] Hello All, I'm sure this has been asked before, but I've looked through 20 or so pages here, and can't find any Armageddon load-out suggestions. Having spent the majority of my EVE-career logging time in Gallente ships almost exclusively, my experience with lasers is insufficient to even hazard a guess as to put on this thing. Some say Tachyons. Others say Mega Beams. Some say Tach's are nerfed. Others say Mega's are a waste of time... so.... possibile set up for this ship? I've heard cap relays are a "must" for low slots - but how many? And with only three mid-slots, what should go there? And weapons? Just break it down to hi-slots, mids, and lows, nice and easy. Any loadout suggestions appreciated. I earned the money for this ship all by myself, through hard work - no help from a corporation, no piracy. Honest hard work :0). I can't afford to blow this. Looknig forward to replies Centauri, Former Fleet Admiral of Star Control
Centauri Minmatar Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2003.09.24 22:22:00 - [2] Hello All, I'm sure this has been asked before, but I've looked through 20 or so pages here, and can't find any Armageddon load-out suggestions. Having spent the majority of my EVE-career logging time in Gallente ships almost exclusively, my experience with lasers is insufficient to even hazard a guess as to put on this thing. Some say Tachyons. Others say Mega Beams. Some say Tach's are nerfed. Others say Mega's are a waste of time... so.... possibile set up for this ship? I've heard cap relays are a "must" for low slots - but how many? And with only three mid-slots, what should go there? And weapons? Just break it down to hi-slots, mids, and lows, nice and easy. Any loadout suggestions appreciated. I earned the money for this ship all by myself, through hard work - no help from a corporation, no piracy. Honest hard work :0). I can't afford to blow this. Looknig forward to replies Centauri, Former Fleet Admiral of Star Control
s0cks	Posted - 2003.09.24 22:29:00 - [3] i don't know the answer to this, but if it was me i'd sticka can in the middle of nowhere and try a few shots at it, with different guns, at different ranges. i hear the tachyons do a lot of damage, but only at gr8 range. I'm guessing the mega beams, and mega pulses do similar damage as the 425 rails, with less cap suck and less range. i would personally try a couple of tachyons, 3 mega beams, and a couple of close range weapons fitted too. probably 3 to 4 cap relay rechargers, and the rest heatsinks of some sort. go do some testing
s0cks The Scope	Posted - 2003.09.24 22:29:00 - [4] i don't know the answer to this, but if it was me i'd sticka can in the middle of nowhere and try a few shots at it, with different guns, at different ranges. i hear the tachyons do a lot of damage, but only at gr8 range. I'm guessing the mega beams, and mega pulses do similar damage as the 425 rails, with less cap suck and less range. i would personally try a couple of tachyons, 3 mega beams, and a couple of close range weapons fitted too. probably 3 to 4 cap relay rechargers, and the rest heatsinks of some sort. go do some testing
StoreSlem	Posted - 2003.09.24 23:14:00 - [5] Power diags are also viable for low slots, in addition to boosting both cap and shields they give a 5% powergrid bonus. For weapons I personally prefer Pulses as they have really great damage over time for low cap use. 7 Mega Pulses, 6 Power diags, 1 dmg mod and 1 tracking mod could be a platform to experiment with.
StoreSlem Minmatar 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2003.09.24 23:14:00 - [6] Power diags are also viable for low slots, in addition to boosting both cap and shields they give a 5% powergrid bonus. For weapons I personally prefer Pulses as they have really great damage over time for low cap use. 7 Mega Pulses, 6 Power diags, 1 dmg mod and 1 tracking mod could be a platform to experiment with. "If you were experiencing a lag, it was not server related."
Rising Sin	Posted - 2003.09.25 06:53:00 - [7] Go with as many tachyons as you can mount, then through heavy beams on the rest. 3-4 cap relays in low slots should do it. -- "If they're shooting at you, you know you must be doing something right."
Rising Sin Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2003.09.25 06:53:00 - [8] Go with as many tachyons as you can mount, then through heavy beams on the rest. 3-4 cap relays in low slots should do it. -- "If they're shooting at you, you know you must be doing something right."
Centauri	Posted - 2003.09.25 07:30:00 - [9] Sounds like a plan, thanks for the advice guys. Tachyons are really that much more powerful? Say, mount two of them, and three or for of the mega beams? Are the Tachyons REALLY worth all the cap/cpu? I hunt NPC's mostly, and defend against PC pirates, so I'm not here to player-kill. And real advantage of the pulse over beam? Pulse's have always been a little weak, IMO. Centauri, Former Fleet Admiral of Star Control
Centauri Minmatar Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2003.09.25 07:30:00 - [10] Sounds like a plan, thanks for the advice guys. Tachyons are really that much more powerful? Say, mount two of them, and three or for of the mega beams? Are the Tachyons REALLY worth all the cap/cpu? I hunt NPC's mostly, and defend against PC pirates, so I'm not here to player-kill. And real advantage of the pulse over beam? Pulse's have always been a little weak, IMO. Centauri, Former Fleet Admiral of Star Control

Storme	Posted - 2003.09.25 08:56:00 - [11] I have a couple of Tachyons for the tempest. I love them. The obvious cap drain is a problem and they don't have as much damage as the 1200 artilleries but you can get your rof up to good levels and the tracking speed is high. I would say you need to fit as many of these as you can and just make sure you compensate as much as you can with cap relays etc. Depending on skills etc, Hitting for around 150-250 on average 4 times every 5-6 seconds (because they almost never miss) will turn most targets to dust real quick... "I like these calm little moments before the Storm..." - Gary Oldman, Leon
Storme Minmatar S.I.N. Corporation	Posted - 2003.09.25 08:56:00 - [12] I have a couple of Tachyons for the tempest. I love them. The obvious cap drain is a problem and they don't have as much damage as the 1200 artilleries but you can get your rof up to good levels and the tracking speed is high. I would say you need to fit as many of these as you can and just make sure you compensate as much as you can with cap relays etc. Depending on skills etc, Hitting for around 150-250 on average 4 times every 5-6 seconds (because they almost never miss) will turn most targets to dust real quick... "I like these calm little moments before the Storm..." - Gary Oldman, Leon
Dragoslayer	Posted - 2003.09.25 21:25:00 - [13] Quote: And real advantage of the pulse over beam? Pulse's have always been a little weak, IMO. Yes, Pulses have advantages. They have a lot shorter range but better tracking, better DoT and you can mount more pulses than tachyons. An apoc can fit 5 tach's or 8 pulses. The 8 pulses can do the same dmg as the tachs in one volley(sometimes more) and they have like 2 secs less rof. 8 pulses do pull a tad bit more energy/sec then 5 tach's. (I havent checked using 6-7 beams, so I can't compare the pulses/tachs to the beams.) The arm has little less powergrid though so you would be pressed to get 5 tach's on an arm, if you can figure your setup to handle close range combat for long periods you can do npc's easier with pulses. Also, with current npc AI you can't fight to far away or they start to do wierd things and are harder to farm.
Dragoslayer	Posted - 2003.09.25 21:25:00 - [14] Quote: And real advantage of the pulse over beam? Pulse's have always been a little weak, IMO. Yes, Pulses have advantages. They have a lot shorter range but better tracking, better DoT and you can mount more pulses than tachyons. An apoc can fit 5 tach's or 8 pulses. The 8 pulses can do the same dmg as the tachs in one volley(sometimes more) and they have like 2 secs less rof. 8 pulses do pull a tad bit more energy/sec then 5 tach's. (I havent checked using 6-7 beams, so I can't compare the pulses/tachs to the beams.) The arm has little less powergrid though so you would be pressed to get 5 tach's on an arm, if you can figure your setup to handle close range combat for long periods you can do npc's easier with pulses. Also, with current npc AI you can't fight to far away or they start to do wierd things and are harder to farm.
Black Lung	Posted - 2003.09.25 22:12:00 - [15] What would be a good crystal to use though? Should 1 tach have a radio and the other multifreq? I am thinking of starting to go with lasers myself, once I can get my hands on a Armag or Apoc. Anyway what are your suggestions for crystal setup? Currently I think I would mount 2-3 tachs and the rest be mega pulses. Thanks in advance.
Black Lung Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2003.09.25 22:12:00 - [16] What would be a good crystal to use though? Should 1 tach have a radio and the other multifreq? I am thinking of starting to go with lasers myself, once I can get my hands on a Armag or Apoc. Anyway what are your suggestions for crystal setup? Currently I think I would mount 2-3 tachs and the rest be mega pulses. Thanks in advance.
Darkwolf	Posted - 2003.09.25 23:39:00 - [17] Quote: Should 1 tach have a radio and the other multifreq? Kinda pointless using radio in a Tachyon, since it gives you an optimal of like 70km.... Whereas a multifrequency still gives you a 30km+ optimal. I always used just multifrequency in my tachyons.
Darkwolf Caldari	Posted - 2003.09.25 23:39:00 - [18] Quote: Should 1 tach have a radio and the other multifreq? Kinda pointless using radio in a Tachyon, since it gives you an optimal of like 70km.... Whereas a multifrequency still gives you a 30km+ optimal. I always used just multifrequency in my tachyons.
Jolo	Posted - 2003.09.26 07:48:00 - [19] Edited by: Jolo on 26/09/2003 07:48:17 Remember lasers can swap out crystals in a flash! so keep 1 multi and 1 radio in your bay at all times for each gun. this way you can kill shields at range and smash armor in close. ---------------------------------------
Jolo Gallente	Posted - 2003.09.26 07:48:00 - [20] Edited by: Jolo on 26/09/2003 07:48:17 Remember lasers can swap out crystals in a flash! so keep 1 multi and 1 radio in your bay at all times for each gun. this way you can kill shields at range and smash armor in close. ---------------------------------------

Ka'loor	Posted - 2003.09.26 12:19:00 - [21] Currently the tach is gimped...... Its DoT is .34, while the mega beam has .305555 Adding that both have the same range and tracking the 1000 powergrid doesnt seem quite justified. Mega beams and pulses work out alot better, 750 powergrid increase, and .30555 on beam against .31 on pulse, so siince you can mount 5 pulse for 4 beam its fair....but tachs seem quite gimped in the comparison. Attack without mercy, until blood is gone, until life is gone, until the light is gone, unto the shadow itself. Better to die with honor, than to live in shame.
Ka'loor Amarr Omni-Core	Posted - 2003.09.26 12:19:00 - [22] Currently the tach is gimped...... Its DoT is .34, while the mega beam has .305555 Adding that both have the same range and tracking the 1000 powergrid doesnt seem quite justified. Mega beams and pulses work out alot better, 750 powergrid increase, and .30555 on beam against .31 on pulse, so siince you can mount 5 pulse for 4 beam its fair....but tachs seem quite gimped in the comparison. Attack without mercy, until blood is gone, until life is gone, until the light is gone, unto the shadow itself. Better to die with honor, than to live in shame.
Centauri	Posted - 2003.09.26 17:59:00 - [23] No one seems to be able to reach a concensus here... are the tachs worth it or not? It's a mystery! heh. Seriously though, most of the information has been a great help, thanks. Any further comments are welcomed. So far, MegaBeams seem.... "safest". Centauri, Former Fleet Admiral of Star Control
Centauri Minmatar Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2003.09.26 17:59:00 - [24] No one seems to be able to reach a concensus here... are the tachs worth it or not? It's a mystery! heh. Seriously though, most of the information has been a great help, thanks. Any further comments are welcomed. So far, MegaBeams seem.... "safest". Centauri, Former Fleet Admiral of Star Control
Lartfor	Posted - 2003.09.26 20:01:00 - [25] Edited by: Lartfor on 26/09/2003 20:03:45 Quote: Currently the tach is gimped...... Its DoT is .34, while the mega beam has .305555 Adding that both have the same range and tracking the 1000 powergrid doesnt seem quite justified. Mega beams and pulses work out alot better, 750 powergrid increase, and .30555 on beam against .31 on pulse, so siince you can mount 5 pulse for 4 beam its fair....but tachs seem quite gimped in the comparison. ...... gimped? Tach is has a higher dot than it ever has, look at hybrids if u wana talke about gimped. Tachs can land hits of over 600 dmg, dont think there are many other weapons that can do that... Try this for a set up, 3 Tachs 2 Mega beams, and 2 close range lasers, u can choose which. The Tachs and megas will desimate most enemies at long to medium range, and if something goes wrong and a ship or two get close, u will have the fire power to take them out as well. i would use multi frequncy crystal sin all guns. Most NPCs dont really start infilicting dmg till they are at around 30k any way.
Lartfor Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2003.09.26 20:01:00 - [26] Edited by: Lartfor on 26/09/2003 20:03:45 Quote: Currently the tach is gimped...... Its DoT is .34, while the mega beam has .305555 Adding that both have the same range and tracking the 1000 powergrid doesnt seem quite justified. Mega beams and pulses work out alot better, 750 powergrid increase, and .30555 on beam against .31 on pulse, so siince you can mount 5 pulse for 4 beam its fair....but tachs seem quite gimped in the comparison. ...... gimped? Tach is has a higher dot than it ever has, look at hybrids if u wana talke about gimped. Tachs can land hits of over 600 dmg, dont think there are many other weapons that can do that... Try this for a set up, 3 Tachs 2 Mega beams, and 2 close range lasers, u can choose which. The Tachs and megas will desimate most enemies at long to medium range, and if something goes wrong and a ship or two get close, u will have the fire power to take them out as well. i would use multi frequncy crystal sin all guns. Most NPCs dont really start infilicting dmg till they are at around 30k any way.
Skel	Posted - 2003.09.26 20:21:00 - [27] Tachyons and mega beams suck. They do incredible damage but the cap drain just isnt worth it.
Skel	Posted - 2003.09.26 20:21:00 - [28] Tachyons and mega beams suck. They do incredible damage but the cap drain just isnt worth it.
archangel sean	Posted - 2003.10.30 05:28:00 - [29] Edited by: archangel sean on 30/10/2003 05:31:41 Edited by: archangel sean on 30/10/2003 05:30:54 weapons are all about DOT(Damage over time) or DPS(Damage Per second) and DOT/cap usage, not single shot damages. By the way the current gunnery system is balanced, you make as much DOT as much powergrid and capacitor your weapons are using. In other words, if equiping 7 dual heavy beams uses more powergrid and cap than 3 tachs, then they do more damage over time and use more cap than your 3 tachs. In addition, according to my tests, it is best to equip with the same type of weapons, and focus your range. My current setup for the armageddon is: 1. Long range(50-60K): 1 Mega beam with ultravoilet lens 6 Dual heavy beams with microwave lens 1 CL5med SB, 1 Orion Track COm, 1 MWD 6 power relays, 2 Fa-Q line tracking coms 2. Med range(30-40k): 1 Mega beam with Multifrequency lens 6 dual heavy beams with gamma lens. the rest the same as 1. with this setup i can fire all 7 guns with cap balancing at 70% forever, and use a SB occasionally. Some ppl put on another cap relay and use infinate shield boosting...but that's preference IMO. Oh and btw, the above setup leaves me with about 80 powergrid and 5 cpu left. Pretty much shoe horned :) Good luck Armageddon Pilots.
archangel sean Gallente Pelennor Swarm Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2003.10.30 05:28:00 - [30] Edited by: archangel sean on 30/10/2003 05:31:41 Edited by: archangel sean on 30/10/2003 05:30:54 weapons are all about DOT(Damage over time) or DPS(Damage Per second) and DOT/cap usage, not single shot damages. By the way the current gunnery system is balanced, you make as much DOT as much powergrid and capacitor your weapons are using. In other words, if equiping 7 dual heavy beams uses more powergrid and cap than 3 tachs, then they do more damage over time and use more cap than your 3 tachs. In addition, according to my tests, it is best to equip with the same type of weapons, and focus your range. My current setup for the armageddon is: 1. Long range(50-60K): 1 Mega beam with ultravoilet lens 6 Dual heavy beams with microwave lens 1 CL5med SB, 1 Orion Track COm, 1 MWD 6 power relays, 2 Fa-Q line tracking coms 2. Med range(30-40k): 1 Mega beam with Multifrequency lens 6 dual heavy beams with gamma lens. the rest the same as 1. with this setup i can fire all 7 guns with cap balancing at 70% forever, and use a SB occasionally. Some ppl put on another cap relay and use infinate shield boosting...but that's preference IMO. Oh and btw, the above setup leaves me with about 80 powergrid and 5 cpu left. Pretty much shoe horned :) Good luck Armageddon Pilots.



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