o7 m8888888888888888 or whatever you pubbies do these days

It feels a bit nasty because the dev-blog mislead you to do something dumb. If you had (the pretty easy skilled) Scout Drones already at V it seems you get a gift if you don't skill Combat Drones any further. If you read the dev-blog and skilled Combat Drones to avoid some huge skilltime multiplikation (like in the past with Destroyer or Battle-Cruiser) you did not save but wasted skilltime because the gift after the update is doing the same for you (so you might feel bad now). Anyway I think it's ok without refund and if you have some fresh toon (like me) you could still take advantage from the update.

They have made an official response. You're not getting free SP.

Also, why did you think you would need this? CCP's policy has been "if you can fly now you can fly it after. So, why did you train the skill? Did you think CCP was gonna take away your ability to use drones? They never have and never will.

Ah, no.
That is a lie.

I will need Amarr Drone spec to use Curators, and I don't now.

So you either have ether badly misread what the devs said, or you are propagating the lies CCP has stated.

nobody mislead you in doing something dumb.

it's a Dev. Blog,

well buddy, you lost, they changed it and there's nothing you can do about it, sorry.

Its not even a thing yet and you already are in with "the lies CCP has stated"

Thats poor, even for you.

Well... thx for clearing that up. Why didn't you tell us this before. Oh wait you did?




There is a Dev-Blog? Really?




No need to apologize. I did not loose SP and could still take advantage from it. Others might still trust the Dev-blog and don't loose something either but waste some time. Since you don't have some serious new content in a thread that looks pretty finished, well... it seems many that write here does not have that much to tell but search for some tears. As I wrote already I think it's not smart but ok and you could still take advantage from it right now. But if it helps you to sleep better: :*(

Your alt will receive the Drone Avionics skill with the same number of skill points that Scout Drone Operation has when Kronos lands. Effectively, we're just renaming Scout Drone Operation to Drone Avionics, so you can safely keep that skill in training without losing any progress

My question is: What's up with those of us who have long had Both skills? Because it seems like people are getting free SP who only had the one skill trained, but those of us who had both are getting left out in the cold.

if you know how to compute then you'll find out that even if you have both CDO and SDO skills trained to V you'll still get FREE SP come Kronos, well, not as much as those who only have either CDO V or SDO V but you'll still get free SP nonetheless.

No, I understand that, but it seems odd to me that they'd give some people more free SP than others. The fair way to do it would be to give people their new skills, and then reimburse the skill being removed, since those that had it trained took the time from training something else to train that.

No, I understand that, but it seems odd to me that they'd give some people more free SP than others. The fair way to do it would be to give people their new skills, and then reimburse the skill being removed, since those that had it trained took the time from training something else to train that.

if you know how to compute then you'll find out that even if you have both CDO and SDO skills trained to V you'll still get FREE SP come Kronos, well, not as much as those who only have either CDO V or SDO V but you'll still get free SP nonetheless.

if you know how to compute then you'll find out that even if you have both CDO and SDO skills trained to V you'll still get FREE SP come Kronos, well, not as much as those who only have either CDO V or SDO V but you'll still get free SP nonetheless.

The fair way to do it would be to give people their new skills, and then reimburse the skill being removed, since those that had it trained took the time from training something else to train that.

No, the fair way of doing it would be to remove all the skills involved and only give you the SP back so that you gain nothing. This would obviously mean that pretty much everyone loses since they can't gain back the abilities they had with the SP they're reimbursed, but that's besides the point GÇö it's the most fair solution.

GǪbut of course, fairness isn't the actual goal here. GǣI want free stuffGǥ is the motive behind the nonsensical reimbursement claim (it's nonsensical since GǣreimbursementGǥ implies loss, and nothing is lost, only gained).

You're absolutely right, except that it's not the most fair solution nor the best way to do it.

This is wrong. You want to believe it's about people saying "I want free stuff" because it makes you feel good to tell those people off.

I think it sets a bad precedent to allow this to happen with skills, and I don't see how it does anything but create a feeling of resentment among the player base.

If they actually cared about fairness, they wouldn't try to get even more out of a situation they're already gaining from.

It's not a bad precedent though. Everyone gains from it except the ones who have no stake in the game. It hits people who were speculating on the change without reading up on the details, but hey, that's just how speculation turns out sometimes GÇö teaching people what happens when you do that is hardly a bad precedent.

People don't behave like this. If someone gets more than you, it doesn't matter that you're both "getting something" if you get short-changed. You'll generally feel it's unfair unless the difference is small in comparison. There is a good reason for that, too.

Well, I'll leave it to the reader to decide whether or not skill training should be similar to market speculation and whether or not this is a good thing for the game.

If you have CDO and SDO to V, you get no "free" SP. You retain exactly the same abilities you had before, only now you have an extra 256,000 extra SP to pay for when you get podded.

Really, extra SP that neither improves existing abilities or gives no more flexibility is an added tax, as the only thing raw SP is good for is meeting some corporation's arbitrary entry requirements.

Note: I am not actually complaining about the changes, just pointing out this particuar change isn't CCP giving drone-focused characters free stuff.

And this is somehow good?

Borrowing from James' earlier example:
A works 4 hours and is paid 5 oranges.
B works (same job) for 2 hours but is also paid 5 oranges.
Employer decides that from now on, any new people will need to work 5 hours for 5 oranges.

To A: "You still got FREE oranges, well, not as much as B but you still got free oranges nonetheless".

then don't accept the job? the employer has the very right what he can offer to you as salary as long as you accept it.
do you honestly believe that in your office/work that all of the people working on the same level are receiving the same salary, benefits and perks? the top boss' sexytary is receiving waaaaay more than a project manager, i garen-tee you.

and your point is? as you admitted you still get free oranges, why are you asking for more when you only get it for free? this is just being greedy man.

That's so vastly removed from anything GÇ£fairGÇ¥ that it's just laughable. What you're suggesting is giving people who already have more even more. You want to be given 1M free SP for no good reason whatsoever, and screw anyone who hasn't done the same.

No, the fair way of doing it would be to remove all the skills involved and only give you the SP back so that you gain nothing. This would obviously mean that pretty much everyone loses since they can't gain back the abilities they had with the SP they're reimbursed, but that's besides the point GÇö it's the most fair solution.

GǪbut of course, fairness isn't the actual goal here. GǣI want free stuffGǥ is the motive behind the nonsensical reimbursement claim (it's nonsensical since GǣreimbursementGǥ implies loss, and nothing is lost, only gained).

[quote=Komi Toran]but the point still stands that nothing was taken away from you...

yes, and no word on SP reimbursement.

OH MY GOD a WHOLE week of training wasted ..... the horrors CCP plays on us .Wish you guys had played SWG years back , you had 2 weeks rollback meaning you had litteraly lost everything you did in those 2 weeks.

My guess is since a lot of people complained about ''omg i trained X drone to V and not Y drone to V because of thread X i now don't have the max skill needed for the change.So they changed it so wichever of both you have to V works fine BUT this being a game of EVE players offcourse that won't do because now you'll get the ''OMG because of thread X or Y i specifically trained droneskill Z and droneskills X to max level and as such wasted a week of skilltraining''.

I think we can say with a fair certainty that the eve playerbase is one of the hardest to please . Hell , sometimes i even get the feeling my wife is easier to please and trust me that says a LOT about us as a playerbase , and yes i specifically say US because i'm just a whiny little bastard like most of you at times ...

Why should people just 'accept' a week of opportunity cost training wasted. Server Rollbacks were a problem and I'm sure SOE would have liked to avoid those as much as possible. Unlike that time, This matter is entirely in CCPs hands.

CCP have always reimbursed skill training from skill changes to the highest possible amount, See: Battlecruiser/Destroyer changes, learning skill changes, social skill changes etc. They are now somewhat departing from that. It's pretty clear that a decent amount of players have lost out on a weeks training time because of this somewhat unclear change, until the devblog was edited, this was in page 20 of a feedback thread without the OP being updated.