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drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.09.25 10:56:00 -
[31]
 Quote:
Gadgets, you make sense to me, I guess the others simpley don't want or are able to see your point of view.
I guess Techhell will outfit all there members with BS (if they don't already fly the latest and best) and buy a couble of space stations when they come out.
Question is did they have to work for it? Answer is no they just got themself a license to print money. I wonder how much they made by selling there stuff on e-bay.
It would have been fine if they had a week or so as the only providers, but after a month+ it makes you wonder if it is worth continuing playing this game.
They paid over 2 billion for those BP's.
They didn't make that 2 billion by selling miner II's, so I'm guessing they did some work for it.
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Gadgets
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Posted - 2003.09.25 11:07:00 -
[32]
Quote:
Quote:
Gadgets, you make sense to me, I guess the others simpley don't want or are able to see your point of view.
I guess Techhell will outfit all there members with BS (if they don't already fly the latest and best) and buy a couble of space stations when they come out.
Question is did they have to work for it? Answer is no they just got themself a license to print money. I wonder how much they made by selling there stuff on e-bay.
It would have been fine if they had a week or so as the only providers, but after a month+ it makes you wonder if it is worth continuing playing this game.
They paid over 2 billion for those BP's.
They didn't make that 2 billion by selling miner II's, so I'm guessing they did some work for it.
Fine and dandy.
So whats that got to do with this.
Absolutly nothing is what.
This has nothing directly to do with Tech it has to do with how the univers ticks and if its going to tick like this then all the little guys will stay little forever,
No im telling lies.
Someone somewhere will decide who gets what and when ..
Controlled you might say ..
This sort of controll is too much ..
the controll should be left to chance.
PLayers have to feel they have got lucky..
and more importantly other players have to also feel that player got lucky.
If that player sells his "find" for 2 billion thats his choice.
The fact that someone else could find that item (or research it-or backward engineer) is what is called spice and will add huge benifits to the universe.
At the moment the only spice is .. well there isnt any.
A huge part of this universe for a lot of players was the ability to find/research/backward engineer things that could make the rich.
This method is stale and does not work.
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Athule Snanm
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Posted - 2003.09.25 11:17:00 -
[33]
The only problem with the Miner II stuff isn't that only a handful of corps have them is that they are the only uber-money making BP around at the moment.
CCP should introduce dozens, if not hundreds, of rare BPs at once - of different types. Some through the market, some through reverse engineering, some through HARD and rare pirate drops, some through events, some from agents, etc. The skills required to use these BPs should also be high enough so that one character (or his alts) can't make effective use of more than one or two of them.
The Miner IIs is how the market should work, high risk (in this case spending megabucks when CCP could drop them on the market the next day) and high rewards. What's wrong is that they're the only item that works like this - just look at the prices for everything else, slightly above mineral costs in almost all cases.
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Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene! |
Gadgets
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Posted - 2003.09.25 11:30:00 -
[34]
Excellent Solution.
But the nice fat corps can now spend a lot of money on these things.
The damage you might say has allready been done.
If there are just a finite set of bp for an item available in the Eve Universe then the solution you descibe should work . as long as it is consistant with new items added on a regular basis.
OPPS this will lead to hundreds of "Rare" items.
The solution is as i have described countless time .. the items need to be available to all IF you put the work in .. Those are the rules..
If i knew it was going to take statistly 3 weeks to get an item .. thats its rarity value.
When the market stabalises it doesnt mean the items will be sold fo a few isk over cost .. Thats cos all items were EASILY available.
I say all items should just be available.
They shouldnt be easy to get nor should they be impossible .. somewhere inbetween.
In 1 months lets say 4 other corps have the m2 bp but they dont have the resources of some of the existing corps.. Theyt sell thiers for a 50% markup .. but they cannot produce enough.
People will still buy m2's for 2-5 mil cos they cant be arsed waiting or travelling.
Some bright spark will buy shed loads of them so he can produce them all the time and allways have a stock (tech) so what ..
Now i have said enough.
I have made my points.
I am done
this is a wast of time.
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WhiteDwarf
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Posted - 2003.09.25 12:09:00 -
[35]
"As for your take on putting Miner II bps on the NPC market, I think that would be a GALACTICLY bad idea, and from what CCP has said, you might as well get used to the way the Miner II bps were distributed. Future new tech will likely be doled out the same way"
One of the big reasons I cancelled my subscription.
"Trust No One" |
Lady Jaxx
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Posted - 2003.09.25 13:41:00 -
[36]
Quote:
Lady Jaxx isnt in a corp
Its noob char
Please use your real char if you going to post
who ever you are
No.
I use one character as my avatar on the forums and another character in the game. You can address my comment or ignore it as you choose without knowing my 'real' identity any more than I know anything about yours.
"University of Caille 0wnz 4ll j00 l4m3rz" |
Arthur Eld
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Posted - 2003.09.25 14:09:00 -
[37]
My question is why are the other corps with Miner II BP's not doing the same thing Techell is? Don't they see the enormous profits they are making? Don't they think that if they started releasing their miner II's on the market that they could cut into Techell's market and start making loads of isk for themselves? Techell only has a monoply on the miner II's because the other corps with miner II's aren't selling them. What needs to happen for miner II's to become more mainstream and thus less expensive is some price competition between the corps with miner II's. Eventually the market supply will start to catch up to market demand and the prices will come down anyway.
____________________
First comes smiles, then lies. Last is gunfire. We deal in lead.
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drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.09.25 14:57:00 -
[38]
Quote:
My question is why are the other corps with Miner II BP's not doing the same thing Techell is? Don't they see the enormous profits they are making? Don't they think that if they started releasing their miner II's on the market that they could cut into Techell's market and start making loads of isk for themselves? Techell only has a monoply on the miner II's because the other corps with miner II's aren't selling them. What needs to happen for miner II's to become more mainstream and thus less expensive is some price competition between the corps with miner II's. Eventually the market supply will start to catch up to market demand and the prices will come down anyway.
Techell make ISK
The others are making $USD*
*either that, or they don't want to be singled out as CCP-favourites/TTi-alts/Evil people/etc, and are selling them privately.
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.09.25 15:04:00 -
[39]
Quote:
Techell make ISK
The others are making $USD*
*either that, or they don't want to be singled out as CCP-favourites/TTi-alts/Evil people/etc, and are selling them privately.
Well we could always ask Everlasting Vendetta what they did with their bp copy. One of their members bragged in local about looting one from the Jovians...
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Cao Cao
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Posted - 2003.09.25 16:25:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Cao Cao on 25/09/2003 16:32:11
Gadgets,
I'm so glad that nobody listens to morons like you. Holy ****. Get a ******* CLUE. There is a price tag for everything: you want the damn miner 2 blueprint, raise 2 billion isk and perhaps you will be able to buy it. How many people have license to make money from licensing and selling Microsoft Windows? ONE. And that's Microsoft Corp.
Like I said earlier, ******* looter communists that want everything given to them. ***OHHH it isn't FAIR that other people are making money! It isn't FAIR that they organized themselves and worked their asses off to own every battleship BP in the game. It isn't FAIR that when the miner2 blueprints were introduced, they had the money to pay the price people demanded for them.***
SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP. You're nothing but a little girlie crybaby. I can't bear to read the trash you write Gadgets.
Pick up a copy of Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand and you will find out EXACTLY WHY Taggart Transdimentional was the most successful corp in EVE for a long long time. Their business model (and corp name) is based on that book.
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Gadgets
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Posted - 2003.09.25 17:04:00 -
[41]
Quote:
Edited by: Cao Cao on 25/09/2003 16:32:11
Gadgets,
I'm so glad that nobody listens to morons like you. Holy ****. Get a ******* CLUE. There is a price tag for everything: you want the damn miner 2 blueprint, raise 2 billion isk and perhaps you will be able to buy it. How many people have license to make money from licensing and selling Microsoft Windows? ONE. And that's Microsoft Corp.
Like I said earlier, ******* looter communists that want everything given to them. ***OHHH it isn't FAIR that other people are making money! It isn't FAIR that they organized themselves and worked their asses off to own every battleship BP in the game. It isn't FAIR that when the miner2 blueprints were introduced, they had the money to pay the price people demanded for them.***
SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP. You're nothing but a little girlie crybaby. I can't bear to read the trash you write Gadgets.
Pick up a copy of Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand and you will find out EXACTLY WHY Taggart Transdimentional was the most successful corp in EVE for a long long time. Their business model (and corp name) is based on that book.
Very eloquent.
What exactly is your point.
Why dont you read alice in wonderland ??
Will it have any bearing on your perceptions of the eve universe?
What the hell has Taggart Transdimentional got to do with anything
If it pains you dont read anything i write.. Dont read it i would hate to cause you pian.
It is apparent that you havent read what i have written anyway.
Why dont you try again.
Read my posts argue the points
OR SHUT THE **** UP YOU IGNORANT MORON
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Jorev
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Posted - 2003.09.25 17:17:00 -
[42]
Quote:
Quote:
Lady Jaxx isnt in a corp
Its noob char
Please use your real char if you going to post
who ever you are
No.
I use one character as my avatar on the forums and another character in the game. You can address my comment or ignore it as you choose without knowing my 'real' identity any more than I know anything about yours.
People who use alts to post are either cowards because they don't want to risk being in the minority opinion, or they are being devious because knowledge of their real identity would negate the validity of the opinions they are spouting.
You will be ignored until you grow a pair and stop hiding.
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Lady Jaxx
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Posted - 2003.09.25 17:56:00 -
[43]
Quote:
people who use alts to post are either cowards because they don't want to risk being in the minority opinion, or they are being devious because knowledge of their real identity would negate the validity of the opinions they are spouting.
You will be ignored until you grow a pair and stop hiding.
*sigh Sets autopilot for offtopic
Well why don't you follow your own advice and ignore me then, while I continue to talk to people who can separate the concept of an idea from its originator's identity, appearance and favourite flavour of ice cream?
"University of Caille 0wnz 4ll j00 l4m3rz" |
Gadgets
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Posted - 2003.09.30 23:06:00 -
[44]
Boing
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Lysithea
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Posted - 2003.10.01 00:17:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Lysithea on 01/10/2003 00:19:01
So where in hell is RESEARCH and REVERSE ENGINEERING so we can turn "old" BPs and items we have discovered into "new" BPs? If CCP wants to seed the universe with new stuff, fine. But don't close the door on a part of the game we have all been waiting for. I had hopes of being a research scientist in EVE... I was sold on the idea that I could research current BPs and rare equipment and turn them into better technology. I'm beginning to think I was misled.
Where is the Consumer Protection Agency and the Better Business Bureau when you need them. False advertising!
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Blacklight
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Posted - 2003.10.01 02:22:00 -
[46]
Don't get the issue with Miner 2's, we're only a 21 strong corp, not all in BS and not rich by any means... we've 15 miner 2's between us (owned by 2 but shared by all when needed).
So are they readily available? Yes if you make the effort.
Can you get a bp or bpc? Nope but why should you? It's new tech and should be rarer than rare, which it is!
There is probably an arguement that the introduction of new tech bp's should be split between events, to raise some interest and random drops, to make them theoretically available to all.
That's just a suggestion for a mild improvement on the introduction of rare tech, I've not really got a serious problem with the way stuff is introduced now though.
Eve Blacklight Style
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Phoebe
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Posted - 2003.10.01 02:52:00 -
[47]
I can not understand this constant whining. Think the people it will change something ?
Has everyone a EPS gaussian ? NO !
Has everyone a Xcel drilling beam ? NO !
Why ppl want the best mining laser for all and maybe for free? put them in the starter ship ?
Many corps make their money with selling loot. If the miner 2 would be avaible for a production price they have no chance to sell one of their mining lasers.
Techell has the monopol. where is the problem . they paid billions of isk for the BPs and if you doesnt like that Techell makes money doesnt buy the miners2 not. But Techell has no problem to sell them . So only a small group of alt char are crying here around and try to make game politic.
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Sarae
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Posted - 2003.10.01 04:33:00 -
[48]
I think some of you are missing the point.
The problem isn't necessarily that only a select few corps have Miner II BPs. The problem is that there is currently no way any other corp can compete with them at all in that market. In the real world, if a company has a monopoly on the market, other companies can dedicate resources to engineering a better product to compete with them. That option does not exist in EVE. Techell (and others) have a BP that nobody anywhere else can obtain by any means.
There is a big, big difference between exclusive ownership of a select few BPs, and wide distribution to everyone. I don't think anyone realistically suggests that Miner II's should just be on the NPC market. But if I want my to take my corp and dedicate all my time and resources towards researching and engineering a competing product, I should be able to do that. There should be SOME way to compete. Not necessarily an easy way, but a way.
I think that is all people are asking for.
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Datsevlu
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Posted - 2003.10.01 05:45:00 -
[49]
If you are going to post that we have a monopoly get your facts straight fist of all. There are at least 4 other unlimited bpc's out there that I know of. That would not be considered a monopoly. There are others out there that can compete if they want they choose not to or choose to sell as alt's for a higher price.
We happen to be the ones in the lime light becuase we were also a Large Battleship producer before we obtained these BPC's.
I will agree with there needs to be some reverse eng and more research in the game. Just my 2 cents.
-- Datsevlu
Blow'em up we'll build more.
Techell's ingame site |
Gaijin Lanis
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Posted - 2003.10.01 06:29:00 -
[50]
Quote:
Edited by: JAXX on 24/09/2003 23:51:42
Quote:
Oh FFS I dont see Everyone screaming at MS that they got Windows and no one else has.....
Terrible analogy, CCP didn't arbitrarily hand MS the source code for Windows.
yea, xerox did.
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NymphoGrrrl
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Posted - 2003.10.01 07:27:00 -
[51]
Quote:
I can not understand this constant whining. Think the people it will change something ?
what are you trying to say? grammer check please 
Quote:
Has everyone a EPS gaussian ? NO !
Has everyone a Xcel drilling beam ? NO !
nope, not all, at least this made some sense.
Quote:
Why ppl want the best mining laser for all and maybe for free? put them in the starter ship ?
heh, not even worth a chuckle if that was ment to be sarcasm
Quote:
Many corps make their money with selling loot. If the miner 2 would be avaible for a production price they have no chance to sell one of their mining lasers.
what is she trying to say, can someone translate this into ENGLISH?
Quote:
Techell has the monopol. where is the problem . they paid billions of isk for the BPs and if you doesnt like that Techell makes money doesnt buy the miners2 not.
ok, lost me there again, I have 3 differnt degree's and this makes no sense(maybe its just to late to be reading this thread)
Quote:
But Techell has no problem to sell them . So only a small group of alt char are crying here around and try to make game politic.
politic??
People complain (whine as you call it I think) due to the unjust, and unfair distribution method of the BP's in questine, not WHO has them.
Please use a proof reader next time you post so people can understand your point. Not sure if you are trolling, defending, or whining, hell, you could honestly be attempting to write in english and just don't know how. Not being offensive, just puzzled while trying to understand some of your post.
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Elynsynos
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Posted - 2003.10.01 09:00:00 -
[52]
Quote:
OK here is my research ..
ANY PLAYER SHOULD WITH ENOUGH EFFORT BE ABLE TO OBTAIN ANY ITEM IN THE GAME.
What an utterly stupid statement. Are you telling me you think there should be no rare and unique items in the universe that are limited in number.
I like the fact that there are limited numbers of high tech items in this universe. I just hate the lack luster way they were distributed in this case.
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drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.10.01 09:07:00 -
[53]
I can't believe gadjets bumped this POS thread.
it's not going anywhere. Not that it ever was, mind you..
If I pay 10 million for a blueprint, I would like, and expect to be able to not only get that 10 million back, but also to make a hell of a lot more, once my initial spend had been retrieved.
So, if techell spend 2 billion on these BP's I would expect them to get that money back, and also, make a hell of a lot more.
To the naysayers: If you had 2 billion ISK, would you take the risk on buying BP's, knowing that they are *not* the only ones out there?
One of the other BPC owners could have cost techell many millions of ISK, simply by selling them at 500k each. Techell would have to sell several thousand to even get any ROI.
But they didn't. And that's not Techell's fault.
Personally, I see them as the 'good guys' in this situation. They are selling in-game, rather than on e-bay. Their prices are fairly good (if you consider CU vaps cost 2M (or they did when I sold 20-odd before this fiasco)). They earnt their money in-game, by manufacturing things that the players want (cruisers, battleships).
And yet people still see fit to talk **** about them, because they used their hard earned money to buy into a huge risk/huge reward scenario.
I shudder to think how the moaners in this thread would have handled the situation...
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Presidio
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Posted - 2003.10.01 09:11:00 -
[54]
Quote:
I can't believe gadjets bumped this POS thread.
it's not going anywhere. Not that it ever was, mind you..
If I pay 10 million for a blueprint, I would like, and expect to be able to not only get that 10 million back, but also to make a hell of a lot more, once my initial spend had been retrieved.
So, if techell spend 2 billion on these BP's I would expect them to get that money back, and also, make a hell of a lot more.
To the naysayers: If you had 2 billion ISK, would you take the risk on buying BP's, knowing that they are *not* the only ones out there?
One of the other BPC owners could have cost techell many millions of ISK, simply by selling them at 500k each. Techell would have to sell several thousand to even get any ROI.
But they didn't. And that's not Techell's fault.
Personally, I see them as the 'good guys' in this situation. They are selling in-game, rather than on e-bay. Their prices are fairly good (if you consider CU vaps cost 2M (or they did when I sold 20-odd before this fiasco)). They earnt their money in-game, by manufacturing things that the players want (cruisers, battleships).
And yet people still see fit to talk **** about them, because they used their hard earned money to buy into a huge risk/huge reward scenario.
I shudder to think how the moaners in this thread would have handled the situation...
I agree 100%.
-
"Passivity is fatal to us. Our goal is to make the enemy passive."
Mao Tse-tung
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Phoebe
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Posted - 2003.10.01 10:50:00 -
[55]
Quote:
Quote:
I can not understand this constant whining. Think the people it will change something ?
what are you trying to say? grammer check please
Quote:
Has everyone a EPS gaussian ? NO !
Has everyone a Xcel drilling beam ? NO !
nope, not all, at least this made some sense.
Quote:
Why ppl want the best mining laser for all and maybe for free? put them in the starter ship ?
heh, not even worth a chuckle if that was ment to be sarcasm
Quote:
Many corps make their money with selling loot. If the miner 2 would be avaible for a production price they have no chance to sell one of their mining lasers.
what is she trying to say, can someone translate this into ENGLISH?
Quote:
Techell has the monopol. where is the problem . they paid billions of isk for the BPs and if you doesnt like that Techell makes money doesnt buy the miners2 not.
ok, lost me there again, I have 3 differnt degree's and this makes no sense(maybe its just to late to be reading this thread)
Quote:
But Techell has no problem to sell them . So only a small group of alt char are crying here around and try to make game politic.
politic??
People complain (whine as you call it I think) due to the unjust, and unfair distribution method of the BP's in questine, not WHO has them.
Please use a proof reader next time you post so people can understand your point. Not sure if you are trolling, defending, or whining, hell, you could honestly be attempting to write in english and just don't know how. Not being offensive, just puzzled while trying to understand some of your post.
Like this alt char tactic. If you have a problem with my arguments, better stay out of this.
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Voss Matsu
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Posted - 2003.10.01 12:07:00 -
[56]
To say that every single item should be available to every single person in the game isn't a good idea, especially when talking about Blueprints. If EVERYONE can get their hands on rare blueprints, I'd hate to see the market for manufactured items... There would only be a need for a Blueprint Market.
Look at it this way, one of the main issues with the WTO at the minute is the distribution of medicenes to poor countries. Companies spend a mountain of money to obtain the licence for the drug (ie techell paying 2Billion for the BP), so the drug company then owns the drug, as well as its make up. No other companies can re-create the drugs to sell at a cheaper price, simply because one company has the licence, and therefore can charge whatever they like. The only thing which can be done here is the research/reverse engineering aspect of the game. So if you like, we can have no new items introduced untill these features start to work, which could be months away for all we know. Heh, and then it's 100 threads about no new content.
Like it's been stated earlier in the thread, others out there have the Miner 2 BP, but they choose not to sell to the public which is fair enough. Theres no shortage of miner 2's out there, i reckon I've bought 10-15 in the last couple of days.
Just my 2 cents.
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Gadgets
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Posted - 2003.10.01 12:17:00 -
[57]
There are 2 issues.
Please try to digest them before scrawling whines about whiners.
1.The way the technology was introduced cannot be the standard.
2.Tech is now in a position to dominate the market.
This includes new technology however it is introduced.
Is that simple enough.
And to the dimwit
Yes i do mean all technology should be available to all IF they put the hurclean effort in to get it.
Do you see?
I dont want techno elves giving new technology away at any station.
I want to know that i can loot something that makes a m2 look like a toothpick. I can keep it or sell it but i cant reproduce it.
I want to know that if Billy has a rattle cos he asked nicley i can have one too.
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Voss Matsu
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Posted - 2003.10.01 12:20:00 -
[58]
Not everyone can have everything, that's what separates the rich from the poor...
GET OVER IT
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Gadgets
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Posted - 2003.10.01 12:26:00 -
[59]
Quote:
Not everyone can have everything, that's what separates the rich from the poor...
GET OVER IT
I think youll find its a question of timing.
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Voss Matsu
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Posted - 2003.10.01 12:32:00 -
[60]
Sorry, got abit heated there, my bad. Anyway, I thought my analogy about the medicine licences wasnt a bad one. They invest heaps in research or in buying the licence, then they own it and are free to charge what they wish.
Research doesn't work in EVE so we dont inject any new items? A corp payed a massive amount for the item, now they own it. We shuld be getting on the backs od the other corps that own the BPs to share them round. 
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