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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Ugleb
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Posted - 2006.06.08 13:22:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Akkarin Pagan
My 0.2 isk:
As far as I have seen in EvE, the BC while designed as a command ship for fleets is very rareley used as such by anyone at all ever! I myself use my Cyclone as a medium range arty boat for killing of cruisers and frigates (and while I can take some npc BS I feel a fight against a Player BS would be very short and one sided)
I think this trend will continue with the tier 2 BC. Let's face it if you are the fleet comander you want something a bit tougher than a BC to command from (BS or Command ship) and a VERY rareley see a command ship anywhere. However I do like the look of the Matari tier 2 (model and slots layout if they stay that way) and am looking forward to fitting one out as a close range armour tanked AC boat 
Command ships, especially fleet command ships, are relatively rare because you need to train support role skills to fly them, logistics 4 and squadron command 4 for a fleet. Relatively few pilots train either skill, very few train both. Now consider that in small gangs warfare links aren't all that useful so a pilot wont fit as many links as he would in a large fleet. So you won't see all that many link-ships outside of larger engagements.
As to why you don't see many field command ships either, the ships themselves are quite expensive, well over 110 million. When they first came out you could expect to pay 2-3 times that, so no-one who has them risks them lightly. But in order to fly them in the first place you need BC 5 and HAC 4. That's high requirements and limits the number of people able to use them, let alone afford them.
Numbers so far have been kept down by the low popularity of the skills needed to fly them and cost. Not to mention that for a long time BC's were underpowered so not many people flew them at all.
T1 BC's were originally just big cruisers, hence their current flexibility. Warfare link capability came later and gave them a second purpose rather than a different main purpose. The link cpu bonus is in addition to the regular ship abilities, nothing was taken away.
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Fogy
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Posted - 2006.06.08 13:44:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Leshrac Shepherd
The appearance of destroyers did not remove the need of frigates, the appearance of BC did not make cruisers useless. I don't see how the release of tier 2 BC could make Tech 2 cruisers useless.
Current BC already surpass heavy assault ships in damage output, a Brutix has considerably more damage output that a deimos, a prophecy does pretty much the same damage as a zealot, a Ferox outdamages an eagle, the only exception I can think of is the cyclone. Nothing of this has lessened the obsession for heavy assault ships, so I don't see why anyone would think it will be any different with tier 2 BC.
My Cyclone eats Vagas like ice-cream
"From my rotting boddy flowers shall grow and I am in them, and that is eternity"
New Direction New Area New Victims |
Leshrac Shepherd
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Posted - 2006.06.08 15:22:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Fogy
My Cyclone eats Vagas like ice-cream
Yes but it doesn't outdamage them.
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Blind Man
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Posted - 2006.06.08 15:32:00 -
[34]
I swear if the gallente BC gets more than a 100m3 drone bay I will cry
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Fan3Spoitoru
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Posted - 2006.06.08 16:07:00 -
[35]
hmm don`t wory the nighthawk is kindof.. :-s ....crap
STAND AND DELIVER!!! |
Bellum Eternus
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Posted - 2006.06.08 18:02:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Blind Man
I swear if the gallente BC gets more than a 100m3 drone bay I will cry
If the Gal BC gets less than 200m3 drone bay I'll cry.
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JaxxFunk
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Posted - 2006.06.08 18:07:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Aramendel
Tier 2 != Tech 2.
wrong
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FAsA
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Posted - 2006.06.08 18:45:00 -
[38]
Originally by: JaxxFunk
Originally by: Aramendel
Tier 2 != Tech 2.
wrong
No he is not.
Tier2 = Level 2, as in ex. apocs, megathrons, ravens in the BS section.
Tier2 is not techlevel 2.
"!=" is the same as "not equal to"
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El Torrent
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Posted - 2006.06.08 20:01:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Blind Man
I swear if the gallente BC gets more than a 100m3 drone bay I will cry
I'd say, 100m3 if stats are correctly, take a look at my earlier post. But that suggests a drone space bonus, similar to the eos?
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Sakura Nihil
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Posted - 2006.06.08 22:18:00 -
[40]
This should bring HAC prices down a bit by giving people a T1 option that is similar to the DPS and survivability of a HAC...sans the speed and sig radius and resistances ofc  .
Looks very interesting.
1st Lieutenant Sakura Nihil
CEO, Tharsis Security
Tharsis is now recruiting PvPers/Pirates |
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Risien Drogonne
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Posted - 2006.06.08 22:51:00 -
[41]
Originally by: El Torrent
Originally by: Blind Man
I swear if the gallente BC gets more than a 100m3 drone bay I will cry
I'd say, 100m3 if stats are correctly, take a look at my earlier post. But that suggests a drone space bonus, similar to the eos?
If it's only 100m3 then yes, there will be a drone space bonus. If it's a drone dmg bonus (which I think it will be since no t1 ships have a space bonus), then it's more likely to be a 175m3 or 200m3 bay.
The idea that some of these people have that it'll be 100 or less is just silly. The vexxor has 75 and it's only a cruiser, and the next higher up drone carrier has 375. That's too big a gap.
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Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.06.09 00:17:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Malthros Zenobia on 09/06/2006 00:22:27
Originally by: Woodat McAwesome
Caldari link is broken. need to lowercase that C in "caldari" :)
Fixed caldari link
Hmm...
Ship Bonus BC1 10
Ship Bonus BC2 -5
10% missile velocity and 5% rof per level? OH GOD YES PLEASE.
edit:
Or maybe...
10% to launcher damage and +5% rof (penalty) or velocity, short range assault missile pwnship!
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Dragy
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Posted - 2006.06.30 08:43:00 -
[43]
maybe hacs are faster, but it doesnt matter when you put dual web + TP when deimos is using his mwd.
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Gee'Kin
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Posted - 2006.06.30 10:30:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Gee''Kin on 30/06/2006 10:30:44
agility thats the word.
Stats are nice. Good more ships to play with
-------------------------------------------->
Plz tickle my brain. I wanna have a Brainfart !
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Stamm
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Posted - 2006.06.30 10:54:00 -
[45]
I'm hoping the agility fix on battlecruisers will stop them being battleships with cruiser tanks. They might even put in a touch less sig radius.
At the moment though, generally speaking, each ship class chews up the ship class below it (of course you have to allow for fitting and skills), but the battlecruiser class has been a little unfairly underpowered. If that is resolved then it means that cruisers, and to some extent T2 cruisers, are the next step down on the food chain for them.
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pfffft
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Posted - 2006.06.30 10:58:00 -
[46]
if u¦re concerned about the high ability of Tier 2 BC¦s:
buy one and be happy!
or maybe ask for more nerfing, because the tier 1 Bs¦s can kill a commandship, or a tech 1 cruiser can kill an assaultship or ...
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Crellion
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Posted - 2006.06.30 11:06:00 -
[47]
They wont be as good as the HACs but they will offer alternatives to the second HAC. (i.e. you can always use a Brutix the way you d use a Deimos and you only lose lets say 15% performance. But if you try to use it as an Ishtar you are in trouble.)
An Ishtar BC and a Cerb BC ARE missing. I suspect also a Zealot BC and a Vaga BC but I am not so familiar with these two races to be certain.
Will they be as good as HACs? In most situations not quite.
Will they offer a good cheap alternative with not too much performance loss? Yes
Will they cause half the HACs' prices to go down? (Ishtar Cerb Zealot Vaga) Hopefully yes. Almost* all of eve will benefit.
* the ones that wont benefit are allready stinking rich so meh.
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Darpz
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Posted - 2006.06.30 17:19:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Crellion
They wont be as good as the HACs but they will offer alternatives to the second HAC. (i.e. you can always use a Brutix the way you d use a Deimos and you only lose lets say 15% performance. But if you try to use it as an Ishtar you are in trouble.)
An Ishtar BC and a Cerb BC ARE missing. I suspect also a Zealot BC and a Vaga BC but I am not so familiar with these two races to be certain.
Will they be as good as HACs? In most situations not quite.
Will they offer a good cheap alternative with not too much performance loss? Yes
Will they cause half the HACs' prices to go down? (Ishtar Cerb Zealot Vaga) Hopefully yes. Almost* all of eve will benefit.
* the ones that wont benefit are allready stinking rich so meh.
have you ever fought a nostix? they are evil evil ships prolly the number 1 hac killer
3xMedium Nos 4xDual 150II
10mn AB if its for roaming multispec if I know I can control start range. Web, Disrutper Injector
2xMedium Rep 3xHards
5 Medium T2 Drones
It may kill slow but it still kills I use this as my "bait" ship
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Wodin Drukvik
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Posted - 2006.06.30 18:28:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Crellion
They wont be as good as the HACs but they will offer alternatives to the second HAC. (i.e. you can always use a Brutix the way you d use a Deimos and you only lose lets say 15% performance. But if you try to use it as an Ishtar you are in trouble.)
An Ishtar BC and a Cerb BC ARE missing. I suspect also a Zealot BC and a Vaga BC but I am not so familiar with these two races to be certain.
You're correct - the Cyclone is a bigger, badder Rupture and the Prophecy is essentially a Maller with a dronebay.
It will be interesting to see which tack they take with the ships - they're so painfully slow and cumbersome that anything but a fairly beefy tank seems out of the question, but I suppose it's possible they'll tweak things upward somewhat.
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Sadist
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Posted - 2006.06.30 18:36:00 -
[50]
Originally by: keepiru
*yawn*
the brutix already outdamages the deimos lol, BCs kill HACs, its nothing new :)
Victim: Okulist
Alliance: Stain Empire
Corp: Xenobytes
Destroyed: Vagabond
System: 4-07MU
Security: 0.0
Involved parties:
Name: D'Jannek (laid the final blow)
Security: 4.8
Alliance: HUZZAH FEDERATION
Corp: StateCorp
Ship: Cyclone
Weapon: 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II
Destroyed items:
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II
10MN MicroWarpdrive I
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II
J5 Prototype Warp Inhibitor I
Large Azeotropic Ward Salubrity I
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Medium Nosferatu I
EMP M, Qty: 986 (Cargo)
'Tis true. Now why do HAC's cost 200 mil again?
---------------
VIP member of the [23]
Quote:
- Numbers alone do not win a battle
- No, but I bet they help.
I nerfed his siggy cuz i was bored - Cathath
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Ithildin
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Posted - 2006.06.30 18:56:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
Edited by: Malthros Zenobia on 09/06/2006 00:22:27
Originally by: Woodat McAwesome
Caldari link is broken. need to lowercase that C in "caldari" :)
Fixed caldari link
Hmm...
Ship Bonus BC1 10
Ship Bonus BC2 -5
10% missile velocity and 5% rof per level? OH GOD YES PLEASE.
edit:
Or maybe...
10% to launcher damage and +5% rof (penalty) or velocity, short range assault missile pwnship!
Nope.
Those bonuses mean "+10% optimal range and -5% shield resistance per level". Or, in other words, dev: "we've not done squat diddly about them, so the data lying around currently is just a suggestion from the olden days when we hadn't begun our work on them. Haha, look at them forum ****** go! Weee, this is fun!"
New sig coming soonÖ
By "soon" I do not necessarily mean "this year" |
Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.06.30 19:45:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Dog Food
OK so heres the stats (not confirmed)
Minmatar
Gallente
Amarr
Caldari
Now is it me, or will these nerf hacs? for example the muninn, medium sized advanced artillery boat...the next minmatar battlecruiser will have 7 turrets and 6 lows and 4 mediums..
Gallente, 250m3 drone space, 6 guns, 5-5-8 layout > ishtar tbh.
Amarr, not to sure, but 7-3-8 layout, 8 turrets > zealot?
Caldari, 7 missile points, 4-6-8 better than cerb?
I like the idea of them, but they seem a tad overpowered...and I hate the dominix, its a solo pwn ship, its overpowered, the stats on that battlecruiser scares me....I mean 250M3 drone and 5 meds :S
Considering a good BC pilot can beat some HACs, I see no reason why the teir2 BCs shouldn't stand up to HACs.
I hope the Booby(tier2 BC? ) has DPS that atleast rival the Cerb due to its number of launchers, and hopefully a 5% ROF bonus.
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Jerick Ludhowe
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Posted - 2006.06.30 20:20:00 -
[53]
The item DB stats will more than likley not go live. If they did these new ships would completely outclass the current BC. When adding new content there no reason to completely displace current content. I'm sure they will be more of the same with some small changes. I'm also hopefull that they will update some of the teir 1 BC so that more people fly them (wtb 6th turret slot for ferox!).
A little offtopic but I feel that maybee someone could give me a reasonable answer. Why does the Slephnir get 1 more slot than the rest of the Field Commands. I can understand why the cyclone gets 1 more as it only has 5 turret slots, however that argument does not really work for the Field Command varient as it has just as many turrets as the Astarte and 1 more than the Absolution. Not mentioning the Ferox or Nighthawk because they are awfull.
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Beowulf scot
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Posted - 2006.11.22 12:07:00 -
[54]
It would be nice if the new Minmater T2 BC could fit A combination of artillery and heavy missiles, I use a rupture with this fit in 0.0 to rat npc BS but dont seem to have the same grid in a Cyclone or Muninn for the same type of fit. We have enough ships for fitting autocannons give us a decent ship that fits an artillery and missiles fit with a decent armor tank.
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Verus Potestas
Caldari
Perkone
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Posted - 2006.11.22 12:10:00 -
[55]
Between corps atm, the NPC one is strictly a temporary thing.
RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy |
Zyrla Bladestorm
Minmatar
Foundation
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2006.11.22 12:37:00 -
[56]
Thumbs up for the pic there mate 
.
-----
It's great being Minmatar, ain't it?
Apologies for any rambling that may have just occurred.
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Dr 0wnage
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Posted - 2006.11.22 12:44:00 -
[57]
HAC will be fine and the BC Tier 1 has always been able to kill them if fitted right for the job so nothing will change, tbh the HAC's now might come down in price but well we shall see and if that happens then i'm sure it will be welcomed.
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matlow
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Posted - 2006.11.22 14:56:00 -
[58]
i think between a new found popularity for BC's, just because they are shiny and new, and the invention skill, hac prices will drop. Not sure if it will be a quick thing or a slow thing, depends if the hac builders have the patience to ride it out and hold the prices high.
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Epidemis
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Posted - 2006.11.22 15:08:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Maeli Nakamura
Originally by: Aramendel
Interesting. The ship boni are not in there, though (or, better, they still use the "old" ones of the tier 1 BC, BS, etc).
The plural of 'bonus' is 'bonuses'. Where do you people come up with 'boni'?
It's not a pluralization, it's a slang for both "bonus" or "bonuses"
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Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2006.11.22 15:13:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Shumpoimp
Hacs are faster, yes they do have 4 bonuses rather than 2..but look at it from my point of view, I fly minmatar HACs, now the vagabond is fast, bit intercepter, nice damage etc, I will always class vagabond in its own ship class as 'Assault Intercepter', now lets look at the muninn.
If the tier 2 battlecruiser has 7 turrets, 6 lows and 4 mediums, as well as a damage or ROF bonus of some kind...fitted with artillery it will do more damage than the muninn...and I hate that!
The Hurricane now has 6 turrets, for a start.
Also, it has no range bonus, and no tracking bonus.
And it doesn't have HAC resists.
As an artillery platform, the Muninn is still way superior in it's preferred role of popping frigates and cruisers. The Hurricane gains 20% DPS, sure, but the loss of bonuses, agility, resists, et all is not a loss I'd take if I was sniping.
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