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TricksR4Cats
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Posted - 2006.06.08 21:08:00 -
[1]
I've read the logistics ships are there to remotely repair other ships, push up other ship's shields, give them extra energy etc with things like remote repair units, shield transfer arrays etc.
But apparently these ships are "Primarys". My understanding of this term, not having been in a majpr fleet battle, is that they are targetted First (primary target) to get them out the way, because they help too much.
Because of this, they die quickly and not many people use them as a result.
So I thought, why not just double or tripple the resistance on the ships for all damage types in armous, structure and shields, and multiply the existing base numbers by 1.5.
In return make it so they cant fit weapons - or give them a 500% cpu, cap and power penalty for anything other than logistics devices.
Just a thought, anyway :)
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.06.08 21:11:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 08/06/2006 21:12:18
Anything will always die when it becomes a primary. I'll say no.
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RecruitMe@NOINT!
 Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Dying has never been sexier.
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Sakura Nihil
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Posted - 2006.06.08 21:14:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Sakura Nihil on 08/06/2006 21:14:53
Edited by: Sakura Nihil on 08/06/2006 21:14:27
While that might reduce the damage they take, a fleet of 50+ BSs firing at a single logistics ship is gonna melt it regardless of how much resistance you put on it. They'll still become a melted hunk of tritanium fast in the battle - in addition, if you put too much resist capabilities on it, you'll mess up the PvE system.
A gang could get a logistics ship with inherent "uber" resistances, further tank it by adding plates, reppers, or hardners on it, and go into a complex or tough L4 mission. It could then wait until the ships start shooting at it, then its buddies could come on in and wipe the place out - either that, or you'll see them used in small-scale gangs as an sentry-tanker, one that will make gate ganking more rampant than it already is.
No thank you, keep thinking though.
edit: bah, beat me to it Jenny
edit #2: ROFL, nice quote as well 
1st Lieutenant Sakura Nihil
CEO, Tharsis Security
Tharsis is now recruiting PvPers/Pirates |
HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.06.08 21:16:00 -
[4]
There needs to be a logistics overhaul, including the friendly lock idea (which I posted in another thread a short while ago, its probably in the first couple of pages).
I would also double the range bonuses, and invert the transfer bonuses so they apply to amount transferred rather than cap use but retain the same efficiency at maxed skills with a vastly increased possible transfer/second (ie: 15% to cap use per level becomes 60% to boost amount per level)
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Jor Azmeh
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Posted - 2006.06.08 21:17:00 -
[5]
I think fixing "primary warfare" would be better than ubering other ships
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Riku Suzuki
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Posted - 2006.06.08 21:21:00 -
[6]
It strikes me that logistics are pretty much broken because in EVE, no matter what, a ship that is called as primary target from an opposing gang will be killed if there sufficient firepower to do it. In other words, unless there are other ways to protect the logistics ship (jamming, etc.), a gang with enough firepower to destroy it wull do so, which is why you rarely see them. The way to fix them would be to make them last longer, but that has tons of problems because it would make them a very imbalanced ship in non-gang, non-PvP situations.
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.06.08 21:36:00 -
[7]
The graphs for my suggsted changes can be found here
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.06.08 21:40:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Riku Suzuki
It strikes me that logistics are pretty much broken because in EVE, no matter what, a ship that is called as primary target from an opposing gang will be killed if there sufficient firepower to do it.
Logistics are only useful in very small gang warfare of equal size. E.g. instanced combat, 8 in a gang, 16 in the battlefield. Bleh... reminds me of Guildwars. Who wants to gank Mesmer/Monk first?
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RecruitMe@NOINT!
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Dying has never been sexier.
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.06.08 21:52:00 -
[9]
Remember, logistics ships can sit a way away from a gang (even further using my idea), so a clever logistics pilot can safespot away from his friends, and once they have engaged at close range, he can warp to 100km and support at pretty much no risk (if he aligns, if anyone looks to be closing in, he just leaves and comes back 100km away from his mates in the other direction)
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Tsavong Lah
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Posted - 2006.06.08 21:57:00 -
[10]
My thoughts on fixing logistics:
1 - give them a tiny sig radius - longer to lock = more time to heal
2 - add more remote repair modules - heal over time, burst heal, that kinda stuff
3 - give them repair drone bonuses
4 - allow instalock on gangmembers
5 - show cap on gangmember info (overview panel)
6 - make sure logistic ships will never (read: never) run out of cap
7 - introduce remote tanking modules - improve resistances of target.
8 - code in blocks that stop logistics ships fitting target painters, nosferatu etc so they will only be used for defensive purposes.
9 - Fighters cannot be assigned to logistic ships
Basically, it should be a case of "the medic is hard to kill and can get on with his job on the battlefield". As it stands, this ship class is grossly underused, because quite frankly it sucks. If WoW were like this, you'd never see a priest, or a healer-druid/pally. If CCP cater for those who don't just want to pwn, we'll see more-rounded combat and more strategy.
Death is the loss of hope, everything else is merely despair.
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Zellin Dalimar
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Posted - 2006.06.08 21:58:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 08/06/2006 21:12:18
Anything will always die when it becomes a primary. I'll say no.
"Endeavor to never become a primary."
Another rule added to my list of "Surviving Eve as Painlessly as Possible" list.
-Zel
Threat Level - Pathetic |
HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.06.08 22:03:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Tsavong Lah
1 - give them a tiny sig radius - longer to lock = more time to heal
They are already nearer to frigs than cruisers
Originally by: Tsavong Lah
2 - add more remote repair modules - heal over time, burst heal, that kinda stuff
Sounds cool
Originally by: Tsavong Lah
3 - give them repair drone bonuses
Don't think so, their job is really at range
Originally by: Tsavong Lah
4 - allow instalock on gangmembers
Friendly lock
Originally by: Tsavong Lah
5 - show cap on gangmember info (overview panel
yes
Originally by: Tsavong Lah
6 - make sure logistic ships will never (read: never) run out of cap
Oh dear fricking god no!
Originally by: Tsavong Lah
7 - introduce remote tanking modules - improve resistances of target.
not realy sure on this one, probably not
Originally by: Tsavong Lah
8 - code in blocks that stop logistics ships fitting target painters, nosferatu etc so they will only be used for defensive purposes.
9 - Fighters cannot be assigned to logistic ships
no, you shouldn't make weird restrictions like this. They don't tank that amazingly, and the sig does not need lowering.
Originally by: Tsavong Lah
Basically, it should be a case of "the medic is hard to kill and can get on with his job on the battlefield". As it stands, this ship class is grossly underused, because quite frankly it sucks. If WoW were like this, you'd never see a priest, or a healer-druid/pally. If CCP cater for those who don't just want to pwn, we'll see more-rounded combat and more strategy.
It should be hard to kill thanks to the pilots intelligent positioning, not having a built in invinci-tank.
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SavageThrash
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Posted - 2006.06.08 22:20:00 -
[13]
They need to be like real wars. In real wars you are not supposed to kill the medics, they are there for eaither side. Now in eve obviously people will want them on their side. If they were able to have a limited amount of targets lock on to it like 4 cruiser 2 hac or 1 bs. A certain mod could control it and only be fitted to a logistics cruiser. that could be a possibility.
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Aeaus
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Posted - 2006.06.08 22:42:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Jor Azmeh
I think fixing "primary warfare" would be better than ubering other ships
Sssh... We don't need Maya to invade this thread.
My Guides (Recomended Reading) |
Just Smith
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Posted - 2006.06.08 23:13:00 -
[15]
What i would do is have the remote armor and shield fixers auto fire at gang members when they take dmg with out needing a lock (when you turn them on). Also the dmg been fixed at the start of the timer not at the end. Problem is i guess they be so much lag but it would help break up everyone shoting the same target (till everyone lags out and eve nodes die)
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mazzilliu
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Posted - 2006.06.08 23:15:00 -
[16]
Originally by: SavageThrash
They need to be like real wars. In real wars you are not supposed to kill the medics, they are there for eaither side. Now in eve obviously people will want them on their side. If they were able to have a limited amount of targets lock on to it like 4 cruiser 2 hac or 1 bs. A certain mod could control it and only be fitted to a logistics cruiser. that could be a possibility.
of course though, real wars also arent fought by morally bankrupt people living in eggs 
allow logistics cruisers to combine shields with 1 ship, so its safer for the logistics ship and the assisted ship still gets boosted
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Bedrock
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Posted - 2006.06.08 23:22:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Tsavong Lah
My thoughts on fixing logistics:
1 - give them a tiny sig radius - longer to lock = more time to heal
2 - add more remote repair modules - heal over time, burst heal, that kinda stuff
3 - give them repair drone bonuses
4 - allow instalock on gangmembers
5 - show cap on gangmember info (overview panel)
6 - make sure logistic ships will never (read: never) run out of cap
7 - introduce remote tanking modules - improve resistances of target.
8 - code in blocks that stop logistics ships fitting target painters, nosferatu etc so they will only be used for defensive purposes.
9 - Fighters cannot be assigned to logistic ships
Basically, it should be a case of "the medic is hard to kill and can get on with his job on the battlefield". As it stands, this ship class is grossly underused, because quite frankly it sucks. If WoW were like this, you'd never see a priest, or a healer-druid/pally. If CCP cater for those who don't just want to pwn, we'll see more-rounded combat and more strategy.
excellent thoughts and ideas! I naturally love to play a "healer" in most games. BF2 being one of them or DAoC. In this case, i was really looking forwards to logisitic ships prior to release. It looked great on paper, but failed on implementation. CCP really needs to look at this ship-class as it would rock with small skimish's or fleet ops if it had proper features like range, and instant lock.
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Frustrated: 
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Brer Lapin
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Posted - 2006.06.08 23:22:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Brer Lapin on 08/06/2006 23:24:46
Lol Aeues
& yes agreed Logistics ships seem fairly pointless in 'real' fleet battles. Personally Id give them truly obscene ranges.
My brothers just got into the game & was looking for a support role & tbh theres nothing there as a logistics ship is limited to complexes & missioning support.
An interesting ability for the Logistics ship would be to tie in selected ships shields to form a link over two BS's & the logistics cruiser say. Two BS's with 10k shields & the logistics with 1k form a 21k gestalt entity.
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SonOTassadar
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Posted - 2006.06.08 23:43:00 -
[19]
Another crazy idea on how to fix Logistics:
Reflection Force Field
Provides a secondary shield for the ship that deflects lasers, hybrid ammo, and projectiles. This complicated piece of Engineering has the ability to determine to what angle it needs to deflect incoming fire that it will hit the ship that fired with pinpoint accuracy.
Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU requirements on Logistics ship.
Skill Bonus: 10% more damage reflected per level.
Skill Bonus: 5% less powergrid need per level.
Make it powergrid and cap heavy. Make it a difficult item to train for. Now the logistics ship *may* still be a primary in battle, but now at least it goes down in a blaze of glory.
___________________________ |
Nexus1972
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Posted - 2006.06.09 00:21:00 -
[20]
How about a decreasing sig radius for every subsequent target lock for logistics ships - that way the more ships lock the logistics ship the smaller the sig radius gets, the longer it takes the ship to be locked by the whole opposing gang. Also perhaps some decrease in mass to allow for better agility and perhaps a warp strength 2 like elite transport? makes the logistics ship able to warp in heal and if taking too much agro to warp out?
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Lickety
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Posted - 2006.06.09 01:24:00 -
[21]
While not exactly a solution for logistics ships, perhaps the better answer would be to help them effectively "tank" better?
How about a new warfare link for battlecruiser pilots, a damage shunt? It lets a BC soak up damage that would normally hit the targeted friendly and flow to the BC instead? The damage transference would start at a base of 50% stays with the friendly, 50% + 15% penalty would go through to the BC. The penalty could be reduced with skills by say 2% a level.
Any one BC may assist only one friendly in this manner, however multiple BCs may assist the same friendly, thus helping it stay alive longer.
Obviously, the logistics ship would be the natural friendly to gain this benefit, and it furthers the role of the BCs in a group engagement.
Just a crazy idea...
/dons flame suit
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madaluap
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Posted - 2006.06.09 01:32:00 -
[22]
Edited by: madaluap on 09/06/2006 01:32:47
Best way to fix them is to give them repairpower from 80 k AND
EW bonusses and i mean jammers no targetpaint ****...
give em 5-6 medslot for jamming and highslot filled with remote repair power, high jamresistance and good tank in low with 60-80 resistances...
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Graelyn
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Posted - 2006.06.09 01:51:00 -
[23]
There is nothing wrong with logistics.
I fly one everyday.
They are hard to hit, have great resists, nigh impossible to jam, and incredible agility to warp out of any situation.
Not much room for improvement. Losing them to pimary calls? EVERYTHING dies to a primary call if it doesn't get OUT fast enough.
Minister of Foreign Affairs - Aegis Militia
Fleet Admiral/CEO - The Aeternus Crusade |
Kel Shek
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Posted - 2006.06.09 01:54:00 -
[24]
wasn't the original idea that they'd stay way the hell back away from the fight repairing from the back?
~~~~~
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And Heaven in a Wild Flower
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour
~~William Blake |
Lygos
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Posted - 2006.06.09 02:33:00 -
[25]
Well, I'm just repeating myself but:
1)locktime reduction to gang members.
2)static effects.. aka debuffs.
3)passive gang bonuses like command modules.
4)Can transfer material between cannisters up to 15-20km.
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Viktor Fyretracker
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Posted - 2006.06.21 21:58:00 -
[26]
well you can drasticly buff their resists beyond tech 2 and give them tons of shields and then remove all weapons hardpoints.(remember transfer modules just need a high slot and not a weapons slot). basicly make them a ***** to kill for 2-3 T2 ammo sniping battleships.
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Ratzap
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Posted - 2006.06.21 23:04:00 -
[27]
As they are now, they are superb for PvE. If I'm careful with aggro management and positioning, my Nightmare is all but unkillable with my 2nd account in an Onieros with 4 top med reps and 2 t2 track links.
It's the gang/fleet PvP arena where they need some thought but as others have said, thats a whole different kettle of fish. Pump them up per se and they become even more amazing in PvE.
Ratzap
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Dilskin
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Posted - 2006.06.22 00:16:00 -
[28]
Either lower the sig to nearly zero, or let them repair cloaked, otherwise they are useless in large fleet pvp. |
Grimwalius d'Antan
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Posted - 2006.06.22 00:50:00 -
[29]
I don't think the reason for them not being used in larger fleet combat is because they are called primary, but rather because they can't save a teammate who is primary anyhow. I think small group combat is where they belong in PVP. Imagine having an interceptor being tanked equal to a battleship sized repairer/shield booster...
...but to be honest, their only feasiable role is in PVE. They are fairly quick and low radius cruisers though, some of them can easily be converted into heavy tacklers instead of healers.
Griefing is to ruin a friendly game, which Eve is not. |
Arron S
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Posted - 2006.06.22 01:33:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 08/06/2006 21:12:18
Anything will always die when it becomes a primary. I'll say no.
Unless your alined to a planet, and warp off once they all start targeting you.
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