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How do you "catch up" in EvE?

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Nexus Day Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau 1004	Posted - 2014.06.03 15:39:00 - [1] - Quote In a previous thread Tippia said new players can "catch up" in no time. Please explain. Given the skill system a new player will never catch up to a vet until the point where all skills are trained. If you are talking about specific skills, say a racial frigate with all modules trained to 5, sure. But by the time the new guy gets this done the vet is already trained or on their way to training cruisers to 5. The new guy is not catching up, they are falling behind in a different area. And in no way does the skill system reward playing well. Bitter vets say the skill system works. New people post looking for a way to catch up or to be rewarded for good play. Can there be a constructive discussion on how EvE skill system can evolve and grow? This thread has so much content it may be 'Thread of the Year' and it is only January.
Karen Avioras Unsung Heroes Spaceship Samurai 757	Posted - 2014.06.03 15:42:00 - [2] - Quote specialize. If you want to fly HACs really good there is a certain amount of skills that give benefit to that. Get all of those to five and boom, you are or might even be better than a 2008 player!
Unsuccessful At Everything The Troll Bridge 13915	Posted - 2014.06.03 15:43:00 - [3] - Quote I guess playing for longer than someone else should carry no benefit. *Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?*
XxRTEKxX That Escalated Quickly Nerfed Alliance Go Away 124	Posted - 2014.06.03 15:44:00 - [4] - Quote Specialization is key to catching up.
Brooks Puuntai Solar Nexus. 1965	Posted - 2014.06.03 15:45:00 - [5] - Quote You can only train so much into X ship before it really has no impact. So being 10m skilled in frigates is the same as a 100m SP pilot who aswell only has 10m in frigs.. More SP just means more variety not really better or a need to "catch up". Specialization is key. CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE-á/ Dynamic New Eden
Kaarous Aldurald ROC Deep Space The ROC 6723	Posted - 2014.06.03 15:46:00 - [6] - Quote The higher your skillpoints go, the less things they end up applying to. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 6615	Posted - 2014.06.03 15:47:00 - [7] - Quote Nexus Day wrote: In a previous thread Tippia said new players can "catch up" in no time. Please explain. Given the skill system a new player will never catch up to a vet until the point where all skills are trained. If you are talking about specific skills, say a racial frigate with all modules trained to 5, sure. But by the time the new guy gets this done the vet is already trained or on their way to training cruisers to 5. The new guy is not catching up, they are falling behind in a different area. And in no way does the skill system reward playing well. Bitter vets say the skill system works. New people post looking for a way to catch up or to be rewarded for good play. Can there be a constructive discussion on how EvE skill system can evolve and grow? Catching up is themepark MMO nonsense and has no place here. One of the best things about EVE is that the time based skill system chases most of these "I want to have as good stats as other people" types away. And you are right, the SKILL SYSTEM doesn't not reward you for playing well (also, needing 'rewards' for every little thing is another themepark characteristic). The GAME itself does reward people for playing well however You misunderstood what Tippia was saying. Well, that and you are playing the wrong kind of game.
Serene Repose 1365	Posted - 2014.06.03 15:47:00 - [8] - Quote Tippia tends to say things which must be taken with a grain of salt. Mathematically-speaking, in a world of logical outcomes, yes. It's conceivable should enough time pass, someone who starts X amount of years after a player that started on day one will finally catch up to the Skill Points limit. Also, it's conceivable, someone with time spent might also acquire the actual skills involved in playing, (assuming players from day one manage to hit a point of stasis and acquire no new skills at a certain point in their playing career...the proverbial longshot). And, as far as the difference in wealth generated, as there is no ISK cap, it's nothing a few hundred PLEX wouldn't solve, considering the time lag involved. What Tippia fails to mention is the likelihood of this constellation of events happening. It's rather chauvenistic to say the least to offer such optimism so open-handedly. However, like all things on the internet, you shouldn't be ready to believe what you read. I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility toward every form of tyranny over the mind of man.-á
March rabbit Federal Defense Union 1509	Posted - 2014.06.03 15:48:00 - [9] - Quote Nexus Day wrote: In a previous thread Tippia said new players can "catch up" in no time. Please explain. Given the skill system a new player will never catch up to a vet until the point where all skills are trained. you buy already skilled character and you won The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Paranoid Loyd 558	Posted - 2014.06.03 15:48:00 - [10] - Quote Skill points help but they are not what makes you good at this game. You catch up by learning the mechanics and understanding the tools that are available to you and how to properly utilize them, this has nothing to do with skill points. "PvE in EVE is a trap to turn you into PvP content, don't confuse it for actual gameplay." Lipbite
Velicitia Arma Artificer 2289	Posted - 2014.06.03 15:49:00 - [11] - Quote you're missing the point -- there is no "you have to be level 80" thing here (also, no "classes" per se). Training (for example) Gallente Frigate (and all support skills) to L5 means that you're a perfect "Gallente Frigate Pilot" class. You can either choose to stick there ... or decide to perfect your "Gallente Cruisers" class ... and so on. The only thing being a vet allows is that you can be "high level" in more "classes". I mean, you wouldn't say it's unfair that I would have to start out as a L1 character after maxxing out my previous ("Level 80") character in some other MMO... The skill system rewards playing well in that you (with say L3's across the board) can kill someone with L4's or L5's ... because you out-thought them (e.g. brought a neut or a short-point or something else fun that they weren't expecting). One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Ramona McCandless The McCandless Clan 4815	Posted - 2014.06.03 15:51:00 - [12] - Quote OP does not grasp a) What kind of game EvE is (CLUE: One where player skill is more important than character SP) b) The SP mechanics "A naughty sarcastic nun that's come to whip me with a ruler." - Domanique Altares "(Understanding when to fight and when not to) doesn't make the cautious pilot a care bear.... it makes him a winner." - Barbara Nichole
Serene Repose 1365	Posted - 2014.06.03 15:54:00 - [13] - Quote Ramona McCandless wrote: OP does not grasp a) What kind of game EvE is (CLUE: One where player skill is more important than character SP) b) The SP mechanics I'm not sure what this means. For Ramona it's saying a lot, but still so little... So, I'll venture to ADD (iterate) SKILL is also acquired through EXPERIENCE, and someone who's been DOING SOMETHING LONGER tends to have more EXPERIENCE! WOT? The "I haven't been playing as long as you" factor still prevails! Hooray for LOGIC! I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility toward every form of tyranny over the mind of man.-á
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 819	Posted - 2014.06.03 16:01:00 - [14] - Quote Nexus Day wrote: Can there be a constructive discussion on how EvE skill system can evolve and grow? Let's have a constructive discussion on how completely full of ** you are in asking if there can be a constructive discussion. What makes you full of ** is that you've skipped the first, oh, 80% or so of the discussion. You've decided, on behalf of everyone, that a change is needed, and now you're just asking to have a "constructive discussion" hammering out the details of that change and hoping that nobody will notice that. "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Doreen Kaundur 388	Posted - 2014.06.03 16:01:00 - [15] - Quote Karen Avioras wrote: specialize. If you want to fly HACs really good there is a certain amount of skills that give benefit to that. Get all of those to five and boom, you are or might even be better than a 2008 player! ^this that's what im working on 1. Minor navigation color change. 2. Show bookmarks in the overview.
John XIII Northstar Cabal Tactical Narcotics Team 215	Posted - 2014.06.03 16:02:00 - [16] - Quote Spend time studying eve.
Ramona McCandless The McCandless Clan 4815	Posted - 2014.06.03 16:04:00 - [17] - Quote Serene Repose wrote: The "I haven't been playing as long as you" factor still prevails! Hooray for LOGIC! Thank you for vocalising something that everyone knows and so did not need to be said Your comment is completely irrelevant to the OP's post, which is about SPs, however You let your personal dislike of me inform your replies too much. This is not logical. "A naughty sarcastic nun that's come to whip me with a ruler." - Domanique Altares "(Understanding when to fight and when not to) doesn't make the cautious pilot a care bear.... it makes him a winner." - Barbara Nichole
Gospadin School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 151	Posted - 2014.06.03 16:32:00 - [18] - Quote You catch up one 100M ISK clone upgrade at a time...
Magnus Cortex GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 154	Posted - 2014.06.03 16:44:00 - [19] - Quote There should be daily missions that we can grind for an alternate currency that we can exchange for SP.
Xavier Holtzman Imploding Turtles Rising in Outerspace Gravity Fatal Ascension 143	Posted - 2014.06.03 16:55:00 - [20] - Quote Nexus Day wrote: In a previous thread Tippia said new players can "catch up" in no time. Please explain. Given the skill system a new player will never catch up to a vet until the point where all skills are trained. If you are talking about specific skills, say a racial frigate with all modules trained to 5, sure. But by the time the new guy gets this done the vet is already trained or on their way to training cruisers to 5. The new guy is not catching up, they are falling behind in a different area. And in no way does the skill system reward playing well. Bitter vets say the skill system works. New people post looking for a way to catch up or to be rewarded for good play. Can there be a constructive discussion on how EvE skill system can evolve and grow? What do you mean by "catch up?" -x
Tikitina Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 130	Posted - 2014.06.03 16:58:00 - [21] - Quote Magnus Cortex wrote: There should be daily missions that we can grind for an alternate currency that we can exchange for SP. Anything like this that the Devs have done in the past, or could do in the future will only cause more problems than they solve. This was shown with Training Skills and Implants. In the end, everyone just trains a bit faster.
De'Veldrin Saint's Industries Brothers of Tangra 2102	Posted - 2014.06.03 17:01:00 - [22] - Quote Serene Repose wrote: Tippia tends to say things which must be taken with a grain of salt. Mathematically-speaking, in a world of logical outcomes, yes. It's conceivable should enough time pass, someone who starts X amount of years after a player that started on day one will finally catch up to the Skill Points limit. Also, it's conceivable, someone with time spent might also acquire the actual skills involved in playing, (assuming players from day one manage to hit a point of stasis and acquire no new skills at a certain point in their playing career...the proverbial longshot). And, as far as the difference in wealth generated, as there is no ISK cap, it's nothing a few hundred PLEX wouldn't solve, considering the time lag involved. What Tippia fails to mention is the likelihood of this constellation of events happening. It's rather chauvenistic to say the least to offer such optimism so open-handedly. However, like all things on the internet, you shouldn't be ready to believe what you read. That whooshing sound you heard? Yeah that was the point Tippia was making flying over your head. @the OP: You don't "catch up" in Eve. You train to fly what you want to fly, and you train to fly it well. Once you have a skill to level 5 you and that bittervet in the corner are equal in terms of the benefits that skill will give you. GÇ£SandboxGÇ¥ does not mean that you will succeed at anything you attempt; it means you can attempt anything you want to succeed at. One of the largest obstacles in the way of your success is other players.
Grimpak Shifting Sands Trader Cartel Bleak Horizon Alliance. 1552	Posted - 2014.06.03 17:07:00 - [23] - Quote there is no "catch-up" in EVE for a simple reason: there is no level 6 in the skills. [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img] [quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Paranoid Loyd 561	Posted - 2014.06.03 17:10:00 - [24] - Quote Xavier Holtzman wrote: What do you mean by "catch up"? Three tomatoes are walking down the street pappa tomato, mamma tomato, and a little baby tomato.Baby tomato starts lagging behind. Poppa tomato gets angry, goes over to the baby tomato, and smooshes him... and says, "Catch up" "PvE in EVE is a trap to turn you into PvP content, don't confuse it for actual gameplay." Lipbite
DaReaper Net 7 The Last Brigade 567	Posted - 2014.06.03 17:16:00 - [25] - Quote Eve's skill tree is more like real life then any other mmo. When pick up a new skill or hobby, like guitar for example, do you sit here and complain that you care not catching up to the caliber of say Jimmy Hendrix fast enough? No you don;t. People specialize in eve, and because of both the skills they trained, and the time they took to horn there craft, be it mining, industry, mission running, or pvp, they should be better then you. But in a short period of time, you can be just as good if not better then they are. Again the guitar, your skill set is how you learn where to put your fingers and what string does what. Experience and practice teaches you timing and how to arrange the cords to make a song. Same with eve, the skill set lets you use the tools then you playing and doing things makes you better. All this complaining about 'whaaa he has 200m sp and i have 1m i'll never catch up!' is the wrong mentality, and maybe you should head back to theme park game. 10 years of eve... yea i'm an addict
McRoll iMmortal Wings Most Valuable Player 100	Posted - 2014.06.03 17:22:00 - [26] - Quote Now I thought up a good answer and the dude above me already formulated it Basically I wanted to say the same: if you are a PvP'er and complain that a vet kills your frig in his frig, there is a simple solution: stick to fights with similar old people and avoid the vet until you have accumulated enough skill points. Just like real life, you dont take part in a karate tournament if you are running around with a yellow belt. You stick to training with your buddies. Embrace that mindset in Eve and suddenly you dont have to "catch up" anymore.
DaReaper Net 7 The Last Brigade 567	Posted - 2014.06.03 17:24:00 - [27] - Quote Nexus Day wrote: Can there be a constructive discussion on how EvE skill system can evolve and grow? No there can not. Why? Because if 99% of the player base has zero issues with the skill tree, and its just the new blood coming in thats whining, then there is no constructive discussion. to make eve grwo, because you ate minority. Adapt to eve or die. 10 years of eve... yea i'm an addict
Mr Pragmatic 885	Posted - 2014.06.03 17:30:00 - [28] - Quote Nexus Day wrote: In a previous thread Tippia said new players can "catch up" in no time. Please explain. Given the skill system a new player will never catch up to a vet until the point where all skills are trained. If you are talking about specific skills, say a racial frigate with all modules trained to 5, sure. But by the time the new guy gets this done the vet is already trained or on their way to training cruisers to 5. The new guy is not catching up, they are falling behind in a different area. And in no way does the skill system reward playing well. Bitter vets say the skill system works. New people post looking for a way to catch up or to be rewarded for good play. Can there be a constructive discussion on how EvE skill system can evolve and grow? Talipia is a flawless player and should never be doubted. That being said, you can catch up in the same areas as other players. It's not like he can train frigate 10. Also you can only be in one ship at a time. Super cali hella yolo swaga dopeness. -á-Yoloswaggins, in the fellowship of the bling.
Ashwind Houssa 24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2014.06.03 17:31:00 - [29] - Quote Not a surprise that long termers have no problem with new players being food. Sure, as a new player I can max out frig skills in a year. However if I focus my skills solely on frigs I will be stuck running low level missions until my skills make me not completely outclassed. Nothing wrong with that per se, but the long termers acting like it isn't a huge hurdle to overcome is a part of the problem. Then again, given how many multi year accounts I see only farming new people, it seems a design decision.
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 823	Posted - 2014.06.03 17:36:00 - [30] - Quote Ashwind Houssa wrote: Nothing wrong with that per se, but the long termers acting like it isn't a huge hurdle to overcome is a part of the problem. It's not our fault we can do math. "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

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