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Victoria Principal
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Posted - 2006.06.09 10:23:00 -
[1]
EVE severely lacks entertainment value. Instead it most of the time expects us to entertain ourselves. That's not what some people want.
Also, the timeframes and total available gametime for many of us don't go with corp activities well. Hence the massive singleplaying for such people.
At the same time, the setting of EVE is quite appealing. Lots of skills and modules and ships means those people want to play it regardless.
Forcing such people to move to lowsec and 0.0 by moving their agents, and making many missions and content lowsec/0.0-only is a mistake. It won't change their RL obligations and habits enough to allow to join a corp they can benefit from. But it quite possibly will deter them from EVE altogether.
PS: I myself match this description rather well, but I'm still struggling. Most often with boredom ;) I'm not quitting, though... Yet. And it's MY stuff, kthx.
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Avon
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Posted - 2006.06.09 10:31:00 -
[2]
Eve doesn't suit everyone, nor should it.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur |
CB Cyrix
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Posted - 2006.06.09 10:33:00 -
[3]
can i have ya stuff?!
-GeoTech--Blog- |
Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.06.09 10:37:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Victoria Principal
EVE severely lacks entertainment value. Instead it most of the time expects us to entertain ourselves. That's not what some people want.
Also, the timeframes and total available gametime for many of us don't go with corp activities well. Hence the massive singleplaying for such people.
At the same time, the setting of EVE is quite appealing. Lots of skills and modules and ships means those people want to play it regardless.
Forcing such people to move to lowsec and 0.0 by moving their agents, and making many missions and content lowsec/0.0-only is a mistake. It won't change their RL obligations and habits enough to allow to join a corp they can benefit from. But it quite possibly will deter them from EVE altogether.
PS: I myself match this description rather well, but I'm still struggling. Most often with boredom ;) I'm not quitting, though... Yet. And it's MY stuff, kthx.
*snip* -Ivan K
P.S. If your corp isn't on when you are... join a corp in your timezone? 
--Proud member of the [23]--
-WTB Platinum Technite, WTS Nanotransistors, Heavy Electron II, 100mn AB II-
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Ivan Kirilenkov
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Posted - 2006.06.09 10:40:00 -
[5]
Please stop spamming "can I have your stuff" - as it *IS* spam.
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.06.09 10:48:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Ivan Kirilenkov
Please stop spamming "can I have your stuff" - as it *IS* spam.
Gah, but its such a tradition  
--Proud member of the [23]--
-WTB Platinum Technite, WTS Nanotransistors, Heavy Electron II, 100mn AB II-
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Aodha Khan
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Posted - 2006.06.09 10:51:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Aodha Khan on 09/06/2006 10:52:13
Originally by: Victoria Principal
EVE severely lacks entertainment value. Instead it most of the time expects us to entertain ourselves. That's not what some people want.
If you want to be entertained then go to the movies, local ***** house or something.
The entertainment in Eve is provided by the players, for the players. CCP just needs to provide us the tools to do so. If you haven't found it yet then I suggest you join a good corp.
So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong and to strike at what is weak. |
Crumplecorn
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Posted - 2006.06.09 10:51:00 -
[8]
To summarise the OP:
Only some people want to play Eve.
Some people don't have time to play mmorpgs properly.
Eve is a good game.
Making life more difficult for a specific group of Eve players will deter them from Eve.
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Sorry but that link contains nawty language. -wystler
"Discussing moderation is not allowed" - Ivan K
"Ranting is prohibited" - Teblin
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The Goblin
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Posted - 2006.06.09 10:56:00 -
[9]
Avon, It should try to accomodate everyone.
Being in an alliance, corporation or gang is a bonus in itself. I dont think I need to explain why but I will.
One person in a Raven has 6 med slots, 8 high slots and 5 low slots. Two people in Ravens together have 12 med slots, 16 high slots and 10 low slots. Both groups are a single unit. Its quite easy to see from this example that group B - 2 Ravens are inherently more powerful (100% more) then Group A.
Which begs the question - Why have a gang bonus? Why add non self-targetting gang bonus modules such as T2 drones.
All of these artificial bonuses combine to boost the natural bonus to grouping - Group B is twice as powerful as Group A - and act to reduce the numbers of people who like to solo subscribing.
Now any economist will tell you that accomodating as many varied styles of customer as possible while keeping your existing customers happy will give you the greatest profits so its odd that CCP try to deliberately harm solo players the way that they do as they make up quite a substantial part of the MMOG market.
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.06.09 11:00:00 -
[10]
EvE is only fun when you have learnt to take a deep breath, stretch both arms in mid-air and say, "I love to get killed and to kill". 
----------------
RecruitMe@NOINT!
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
EvE is sadistically and masochistically satisfying.
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Telemicus Thrace
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Posted - 2006.06.09 11:10:00 -
[11]
Originally by: The Goblin
Now any economist will tell you that accomodating as many varied styles of customer as possible while keeping your existing customers happy will give you the greatest profits so its odd that CCP try to deliberately harm solo players the way that they do as they make up quite a substantial part of the MMOG market.
Any economist would tell you that CCP should have made WoW in space which is why Economists are KoS in Eve. Three TLA's in one sentance, it's an omen!
Eve is not a single player game. Sure you can do stuff solo but the guys that work together will always win over the solo guy. Okay, mostly they will win. I can think of some exceptions.
Real life has no true bearing on what you can do in Eve. I get on for an hour after DT most weeknights and the odd Saturday / Sunday morning. I run a moderately successful corp and live out in 0.0.
Team up with people in your time zone and stop traeting low sec as if it was instant death to tread there. It's actually really quite safe once you know what you are doing. In fact create and alt and try some piracy for a bit, once you see what is involved with that side of things you will better understand how to fight it.
>> RECRUITING << |
Flyyn
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Posted - 2006.06.09 11:10:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
EvE is only fun when you have learnt to take a deep breath, stretch both arms in mid-air and say, "I love to get killed and to kill".
You need help Jenny...
This is as bad as it can get, but don't bet on it. |
Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2006.06.09 11:11:00 -
[13]
Originally by: The Goblin
Now any economist will tell you that accomodating as many varied styles of customer as possible while keeping your existing customers happy will give you the greatest profits so its odd that CCP try to deliberately harm solo players the way that they do as they make up quite a substantial part of the MMOG market.
Thank God CCP is run by games players and not economists, huh?
________________________________________________
"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
Avon
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Posted - 2006.06.09 11:12:00 -
[14]
Originally by: The Goblin
Avon, It should try to accomodate everyone.
No it shouldn't.
Some people like tea, others coffee.
Hardly anyone likes a blend of both.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur |
Kel Shek
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Posted - 2006.06.09 11:16:00 -
[15]
persistent state virtual world's (what MMO's are meant to be, like EVE) are not something that entertains you.
its something that provides you a device with which to entertain yourself.
its a sandbox. not a movie.
its a pile of legos. not a "game".
its an empty refrigerator box. YOU chose wether its a peice of junk to be thrown out, a castle, a secret hideout, or a rocket ship.
some people are too "grown up" to simply "play" when given the opportunity. some are too uninterested. some simply aren't interested in that, and want to be entertained without putting anything into it.
if you are looking for something to entertain you, without you putting anything into it... to WANT to have fun, and TRY to have fun, but just sit down and let the pretty pictures do entertain-y things for you... EVE, and MMO's in general, really are not what your looking for.
the reason WoW is both, so great, and so horriblly terrible, (and it truly is both) is because it has so little self-entertainment, and so much "slightly interactive television" quality.
honest question though... why do you want the "entertainment" spoonfed to you? is it not more ... interesting, more engaging, if you have to put something into it, rather than just being there half concious?
~~~~~
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And Heaven in a Wild Flower
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour
~~William Blake |
Kate Ne
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Posted - 2006.06.09 11:33:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Avon
Some people like tea, others coffee.
Hardly anyone likes a blend of both.
Maybe so, but that's a poor example. You don't have to pour one into another. You can fill two cups instead. That is, if you want to draw the analogies.
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Avon
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Posted - 2006.06.09 11:37:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Kate Ne
Originally by: Avon
Some people like tea, others coffee.
Hardly anyone likes a blend of both.
Maybe so, but that's a poor example. You don't have to pour one into another. You can fill two cups instead. That is, if you want to draw the analogies.
Exactly.
And you can call one cup "Eve", and the other "Not Eve".
If you don't like the Eve one, you can put it down and enjoy the "Not Eve" one.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur |
Crumplecorn
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Posted - 2006.06.09 11:44:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Telemicus Thrace
Originally by: The Goblin
Now any economist will tell you that accomodating as many varied styles of customer as possible while keeping your existing customers happy will give you the greatest profits so its odd that CCP try to deliberately harm solo players the way that they do as they make up quite a substantial part of the MMOG market.
Any economist would tell you that CCP should have made WoW in space which is why Economists are KoS in Eve.
You win the thread.
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Sorry but that link contains nawty language. -wystler
"Discussing moderation is not allowed" - Ivan K
"Ranting is prohibited" - Teblin
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Victoria Principal
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Posted - 2006.06.09 11:45:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Avon
Eve doesn't suit everyone, nor should it.
Probably not. But it somehow doesn't feel right that EVE suits griefers with lots of free time on their hands very well, yet largely fails to do so for those I described.
To prevent the speculation that usually follows any mention of griefers, I'm not a recent victim, thank you ;)
Originally by: Crumplecorn
To summarise the OP:
Only some people want to play Eve.
Some people don't have time to play mmorpgs properly.
Eve is a good game.
Making life more difficult for a specific group of Eve players will deter them from Eve.
That sums it up quite well, thanks.
Originally by: Kel Shek
honest question though... why do you want the "entertainment" spoonfed to you? is it not more ... interesting, more engaging, if you have to put something into it, rather than just being there half concious?
There isn't black and white only. Think Half-Life, for example. Both parts (along with their expansions) did spoonfeed the player somewhat, but it was entertaining, interesting and engaging regardless.
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Tachy
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Posted - 2006.06.09 11:53:00 -
[20]
How does it impact the alliances when EVE offers more than just your mostly very time consuming way to play EVE?
News for you: It doesn't in a bad way. It might even help you because people on weird work schedules might enjoy the game with you while still having fun when you're offline because you're working ...
--*=*=*--
Megadon
CCP wanted a well known artist and celebrity to test the new font so it's approval would be well known. They got Ray |
Victoria Principal
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Posted - 2006.06.09 12:07:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Avon
Exactly.
And you can call one cup "Eve", and the other "Not Eve".
If you don't like the Eve one, you can put it down and enjoy the "Not Eve" one.
Or you can hope EVE will be improved in a way that will better suit soloplayers. Like I said, I like many parts of the game, otherwise I wouldn't be playing it.
I want to emphasize this isn't about changing the game for the hardcore players. EVE is large enough to allow these groups to co-exist. Instead, there's a major drive to force people into corps, alliances, lowsec and 0.0. I know that's not what I want or have time for.
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Sensor Error
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Posted - 2006.06.09 12:08:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: The Goblin
Avon, It should try to accomodate everyone.
No it shouldn't.
Some people like tea, others coffee.
Hardly anyone likes a blend of both.
LIEEEES! I have to say I quite like Toffee...
Huh? what do you mean you don't get toffee when you mix tea and coffee??
oooh.... I'll go sit in my corner...
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!!!
------------------------------------------
Dev Responses to common questions |
Avon
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Posted - 2006.06.09 12:11:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Victoria Principal
Originally by: Avon
Exactly.
And you can call one cup "Eve", and the other "Not Eve".
If you don't like the Eve one, you can put it down and enjoy the "Not Eve" one.
Or you can hope EVE will be improved in a way that will better suit soloplayers. Like I said, I like many parts of the game, otherwise I wouldn't be playing it.
I want to emphasize this isn't about changing the game for the hardcore players. EVE is large enough to allow these groups to co-exist. Instead, there's a major drive to force people into corps, alliances, lowsec and 0.0. I know that's not what I want or have time for.
Take a guess how many hours a week I actually get to play Eve?
I work full-time, and spend a lot of my free time with my wife and kids.
You are making excuses.
If you want a single player game, that is fine, there is nothing wrong with that. However, you can not have an exclusively single player aspect in Eve, it just won't work.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur |
Avon
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Posted - 2006.06.09 12:13:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Sensor Error
LIEEEES! I have to say I quite like Toffee...
First proper forum laugh of the day.
Thank you.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur |
Rodge
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Posted - 2006.06.09 12:25:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Avon
Take a guess how many hours a week I actually get to play Eve?
I work full-time, and spend a lot of my free time with my wife and kids.
You are making excuses.
I can attest to seeing Avon on the forums more often than I see him in corp chat
Sig inappropriate-not eve related -Abdalion
[ 2005.04.17 00:34:30 ] Nagilam > u better leave Rodge, u will not gank any1 else 2nite......
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Res Tance
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Posted - 2006.06.09 12:31:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Victoria Principal
Also, the timeframes and total available gametime for many of us don't go with corp activities well.
There are literally thousands of different styles of corporations within EVE. Some relaxed, some not so, some freelance, some heirarchical, some piratical, some anti-pirate, some US time zone, some EU, some Asian.. etc etc
Start having a look at the recruitment channel on the forum and you'll find numerous examples.
I'm sure that you can find some entertainment within one of these corps, and I'll be more than happy to run you through what our corp do in game if you were interested. [/shameless recruitment]
Put yourself about a bit
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Galk
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Posted - 2006.06.09 12:43:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Avon
However, you can not have an exclusively single player aspect in Eve, it just won't work.
Weird, iv'e being playing eve over 3 years now, and the game is full of single player aspects.
Having said that though.. back on the original topic...
It doesn't seem to bother ccp one bit how much they cut loose in terms of player retention.
Im guessing this is because for every one player that leaves (because they see eve as the original poster)... the one that stops gets another account (or two).
Eve could be a 'lot' more than what it is... but alas aside from the conquests of players in open space (which ofc people do enjoy... hate.. pwnd you... hahah.. av it,,, some people realy enjoy that... but it's not for everyone)
So unless you find your niche and contentness in the single player stuff available... eve realy is 'boring'...
Me... i got goals... but in game social interaction's
would be nice from time to time....
You only have to look at how popular the outgame poker thing was... incorporate things like that into the game ffs..... make a few hero's....
Eve's deadliest poker player for example... something along those lines... things like that would bring the game out.. and make it for everybody
______
Long ago one gorgeous night, we let the stars grow free.
We let Zhuge do that once, he came back carrying a traffic cone, a forsale sign and three empty bottles of dutch lager. He also lost his Zimmer Frame... - Imaran
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Andrue
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Posted - 2006.06.09 12:47:00 -
[28]
Very well put IMO.
I'm hoping this proposed Empire war will help. It might be an opportunity for those of us playing the loner life style to dip into team play as/when we can. Personally I loved being part of a team. Most people do. The boring monotonous mining operation becomes something better just by being in a group.
The problem at the moment is that group activities do require a little more commitment than a lot of us can provide. If CCP can get Empire wars right (regular smaller battles as well as the occasional large fight) it could be perfect.
You log on then either do you own thing or look on a list for an event near you that you can join in for a few hours.
--
(Battle hardened miner)
[Brackley, UK]
WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality. |
Andrue
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Posted - 2006.06.09 12:49:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: The Goblin
Avon, It should try to accomodate everyone.
No it shouldn't.
Some people like tea, others coffee.
Hardly anyone likes a blend of both.
Most people like a warm drink though.
--
(Battle hardened miner)
[Brackley, UK]
WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality. |
Avon
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Posted - 2006.06.09 12:52:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Galk
Originally by: Avon
However, you can not have an exclusively single player aspect in Eve, it just won't work.
Weird, iv'e being playing eve over 3 years now, and the game is full of single player aspects.
List them.
List all the parts of this game which are exclusively single player.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur |
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