I think the loot tables for Ruins nodes (the hardest one to hack) are severely broken. Good 50% of the Ruins dropped less than 100k worth of loot - and many times it contained only few pieces of Carbon and/or Metal Scraps.

I would expect that the hardest (and the only challenging) node to hack would also give the best rewards, but that's clearly is not a case right now.

I say bring back the old mag and radar sites with rats in them

1 Whine that exploration was to difficult.

just to make matter clearer, the problem is that sites drop tables are farked or that they wont despawn after cherry-picking so you will find only the stuff the guy that got there before you didnt want?

just to make matter clearer, the problem is that sites drop tables are farked or that they wont despawn after cherry-picking so you will find only the stuff the guy that got there before you didnt want?

I've found very similar results. Many of them had a stack of metal scraps and a single stack of T2 materials (and often a lower value one) compared to the lower level containers which would often have several stacks of T2 materials.

Living in nullsec was achievable on relative low SP, making around 50-70mil in an evening of grinding. Now though I would be lucky to get 20-30mil !

1. Higher requirements to some conteiners "ruins" "com tower" = lvl4-5 for hack and equal reward not one carbon omg ...
2. Lower scan resolutions for some high value sites like "crystal"
3. Imunne to cargo scaners maybe ...

Hi, Toddfish.

I

I can live with sites that are so easy I now use an interceptor to explore null sec without the scanning modules and only one probe strength rig. I can live with the hacking exercise only because I thought it would be applied to other player owned structures a careful explorer can hack into and steal from. I hated the loot spew for all the usual reasons and I am glad it is gone. I can even live with the rat removal although now with the introduction of mobile depots I think rats need to be reintroduced. What I find the most disappointing about the entire exploration revamp is that it does not accommodate those of us that want good skills and want difficulty and want depth of play.

Run combat sites.

since Post patch i have done about 100 relic sites and there is definitely something wrong i woulds really like CCP to confirm the math behind the the 30%(or so they say) cut

I assumed that what was going happen was a 30% cut to stack sizes or to the % either a 10 stack becomes 7 or you have a 30% less chance of getting so i.e a 7% chance of 15 power circuits instead of a 10% chance

What i think has happened is that have nerfed the loot by 30%(or more?) and then on top of that they have nerfed the amount of stacks,before the patch i would say the average is about 6-7 stacks in a can very rarely only 1 and sometimes as high as 10+ ,but now its seems that 2-3 is the average and 6+ is the rare top end with 1 now being fairly common

Hacking attempts have gone up from around 65k a day to just over 100k a day at the moment. So there are quite a few more people out exploring just now..

ETA: Loot table balance in general for exploration is something we definitely need to look at.

I understand why that all changed with Odyssey BUT to accommodate those that choose to make exploration a profession they forgot to add something important to the lowered entry level: A class of exploration site(s) that is DIFFICULT to find and a loot table expansion to support it.

ETA: Loot table balance in general for exploration is something we definitely need to look at.

In Kronos we made the frequency of drops 70% of the value they were in Odyssey. The amount of items of any type that might drop was left unchanged. We actually left blueprint drops doubled.

So in pre-Odyssey terms in Kronos there is on average more items per site but more explorers so more sites being run and more items being sold so the value of each item is less.

ETA: Loot table balance in general for exploration is something we definitely need to look at.

I have an alt in cas, and they were discussing "baby killing" or killing new players, and I mentioned that I'd killed one of the convo participants in Vale. She'd gone through a WH, grabbed 3 relics, then gone back through it again the next morning and got caught in a site by my taranis.

In the end she'd grabbed 80m of loot in 40 minutes with an imicus, then got a little greedy and come back the next day for more. Put rats in the sites and you can forget new players going to deep null and making (relative to their highsec earning potential) big isks with frigates, and you can forget about the players playing the monster, both of which are obvious design goals of the current system, and obvious successes that I can only congratulate CCP on achieving.

All that will happen if rats are put in, is that there will only be cloaky tengus, and there will be no combat between players, and new players will return being more frightened of null than they are greedy for the rewards.

One of my hopes for tiered sites would be to encourage people, especially who would normally fly frigs and cov ops, to eventually move-up to larger ships (Sisters, T3, etc.) to get the increased rewards provided in the more difficult sites. In turn, this will result in increased time when they are vulnerable (fighting rats) as well as increased risk moving around (even if many would be covert/nullified).

Everywhere there are combat sites for using combat ships without hacking. if you scanned 50 sites whilst relic farming, you should have a good idea what location to fly a stratios to find a combat site nobody is doing.

ie every possible tiering of site pretty much exists imo, and the failing is more in the "didn't actually explore enough" category on the part of some "explorers".

EI think it would be fun to have sites with similar combat difficulties, but also require hacking skills to receive the loot.

digital plexus, H-PA crew in my region do exactly that. There are even neut towers in the H-PA if that floats your boat. The good news is if you go to a different region, you'll get to hunt a different type of digital encounter and a different H-PA.

I say bring back the old mag and radar sites with rats in them

Hacking attempts have gone up from around 65k a day to just over 100k a day at the moment. So there are quite a few more people out exploring just now.

Im not complaining about the new system at all, I just want to point out here that the number of hacking attempts does not at all directly correlate with the number of people doing sites.

With the sharply decreased valuable T2 salvage available, explorers are forced to hack the less valuable cans for stuff like Armor Plates or Tripped Power Circuits to still get some profit off the sites. Pre-Patch most explorers only cherry picked one or two cans and left the sites be, while now there are a great many who do the sites completely.

Honestly, Im surprised that hacking attempts are not even double the previous number. I was expecting them to skyrocket. You could just as easily argue that the number of hacking attempts suggests that even less people are doing exploration now.

That might be true to a certain extent right now ... but im pretty damn sure it didnt change the 40m to 50m rewards into the 20k rewards we are seeing right now. I think you guys have just screwed up somewhere, and need to go fix whatever mistake you made pretty damn soon before a piece of the player base that depends on anomalies for PLEX dies off.

Hacking V seems to be a long train wasted for the current data sites so my suggestion is to put hacking cans into the drones sites with nexus chip drops, and bring up the isk per hour of these sites on par with the faction sites.

I just did a few sites to test, all in gurista 0.0 space. 1 monument, 1 science outpost, 2 temples and 1 CQ.

The monument dropped 34.5mil.
The temples dropped 35.5mil and 43.5mil.
The science outpost dropped 13.8mil.
The CQ dropped 11mil.

The sites took 5-7 minutes each in a tengu with Arch V and a T2 analyzer. This could be a lucky day, but the big drops are still there evidently if you look for them.

Short of pushing costs onto other professions like industry, or putting rats back in, I don't see what else can be done. I remember there were stories about people earning 100mil+ from a CQ coming bragging onto the forum about it being easy money for a few minutes work and how they earned billions a week, well take a reality check, obviously that was never going to last. Time to move on to the other parts of exploration that are crying out for iteration, specifically low level unrateds, and drone combat sites. These take a much more expensive ship, with more risk, and spawn less frequently than the mini profession sites and certainly have lower isk/hr potential.

Hacking V seems to be a long train wasted for the current data sites so my suggestion is to put hacking cans into the drones sites with nexus chip drops, and bring up the isk per hour of these sites on par with the faction sites.

for me data sites are even more important than relics. Sure after you loot a average data site the estimated value in your cargo hold might look lower than a average site, but then you don`t consider that you can actually use those data cores and decriptors for invention and make a lot more than their plain value. I do that.

That been said the relic sites loot also increases its value if you actually manufacture something than simply sell it. Just a thought.

In the end if you donGÇÖt think that data/relics are the sites for you move on to something that offers you that steady ISK stream that you all dream about, because next thing you will find yourself asking is CCP depositing ISK in your wallets just because you don`t feel like doing anything that does not give you a profit of 1 bil/hr

I think the difficult thing is that ratting, especially anon running in null, is essentially what you describe... CCP injecting ISK into the wallets. There is no market dynamic to the bounties (unlike what happened to salvage/datacore prices after Odyssey), they constantly respawn (unlike needing to be scanned down), essentially itGÇÖs a stream of income. If it wasnGÇÖt so easy (oh yeah, you can just afk-ishtar them), no one would do it. If shooting crosses wasn't so boring, I might give it another try... it would easily be better isk/hr than exploration.

[quote=Seven Koskanaiken]
I don`t know why do you think that, maybe you are lacking the proper motivation to make them profitable, but for me data sites are even more important than relics. Sure after you loot a average data site the estimated value in your cargo hold might look lower than a average site, but then you don`t consider that you can actually use those data cores and decriptors for invention and make a lot more than their plain value. I do that. My entire invention process is organized around me doing data sites. And to be honest i love that ppl simply ignores them and look for relics and that allows me often to find 3-4 data sites in a single system and go with 100-120 mil in my cargo for just 30 min of my time while the "relic" hunters look for those precious sites.

This sounds a lot like "my minerals are free".

This sounds a lot like "my minerals are free".

Don't really know if i believe it's worth it to use the datacores and decoders to invent T2 bpc's, it would require you having access you copy and invention lines. The hit and miss nature of inventing T2 bpc, makes it hard to sell them with a profit. I did use to build the faction pos structures and T2 rig when i found bpc's, generally it's better to sell them items compared to the bpc. Some items sell with are profit, and some bpc's are almost impossible to sell where it's easier to sell the final product.

I wonder.. If DEVs change the loot tables with guaranteed TOP salvage/data stuff in top sites, crashing the market even more.

Would people stop complaining?

If you want less people to overload the market, just kill other explorers.

Relics are fine. I think people complaing about value imbalance beetwen data and relics.

I joked with a friend that he would be back in a T-3 in a few minutes and sure enough, he came back with a Tengu. He told me to "fight or go home!" Oh sure, I will throw down with my frigate against your Tengu!

Why tengu? SB is better for the job. No targeting delay. Lost one of my Buzzards in lowsec that way. I was abushed by SB while on my tengu he other day, RLML eat him really fast (i was lucky, his friends was one jump away). Covops are agile and fast but defensless, i prefer T3 for the job (+nullifier).

Let's get more of that content at data sites

And to be honest i love that ppl simply ignores them and look for relics and that allows me often to find 3-4 data sites in a single system and go with 100-120 mil in my cargo for just 30 min of my time while the "relic" hunters look for those precious sites.

We actually left blueprint drops doubled.

Hacking attempts have gone up from around 65k a day to just over 100k a day at the moment. So there are quite a few more people out exploring just now.

If you were about exploring post-Odyssey you'll remember values for exploration items dropped off a cliff after the expansion.

100-120 from 3-4 data sites? What region? You were incredibly lucky i presume. I'm exploring south, best site droped 22 mil. Items volume are insane sometimes.



Do you have any data what happens with blueprints? (manufactured, trashed, not looted, etc.).
Even if i used them i won't be able to compensate the value difference between datas and relics.



This stat shows nothing. Cherry picking single can included? 100000/24h=4167 per h. 4167/5(average cans per site)=833,4 site per hour (assuming all cans are hacked). What is total amount of sites in new eden? How this stat looks now, after few weeks?



Yep. Horrible move. From one extreme to the other. You made exploration easier, lots of people start to doing it. Its hard to manage loot values with players driven market that way.
Items from exploration are used in manufacturing so:
low frequency of drops/explorers = good for explorers, bad for manufacturers,
high frequency = vice versa.

So maybe add some items not connected to building items, like in those new mordus sites, with an option to sell them to the market or exchange them in loyality stores.

Maximum i got from 1 relic site was 80 kk. Normally around 10-20. Maxiumum from 1 container 30kk. Not counting blueprints.
When i started i earned not much. But now when i studied region, time etc i earn uo to 100kk per hour. Just playing in the morning before dt, and couple hours after dt. When sites exists there is plenty of them(met up to 4 in 1 system) and plenty of isks.If you don't meet sites at least 1 in 2-3 systems thats mean somebody running in front of you and better to find another occupation.

In my opinion the mini professions are now done, and enough time has been spent on them.

Still, what happened to faction towers/modules drop from data sites? Anyone saw anything recently?

Few days ago i've heard curious thing about cargo scanner and empty cans on one of in-game chat channels. Ppl claimed that scanner is imperfect and don't always shows exact exploration can content. Anybody experience that?

Few days ago i've heard curious thing about cargo scanner and empty cans on one of in-game chat channels. Ppl claimed that scanner is imperfect and don't always shows exact exploration can content. Anybody experience that?

The cargo scanner won't show garbage like Carbon, maybe they meant that?