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DHB WildCat
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
380
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Posted - 2014.06.07 00:40:00 -
[1] - Quote
Frig.....
8.3km/sec before overheating cap stable.... yes with booster alt.
150 dps at 70km.
59 km disruptor before overheating to 70km.
Seriously I speed tank light missiles... this ship is faster than light missiles as it orbits other frigs that cant even lock it while still pointing. I understand the idea behind this ship, however CCP.... its nerf bat time.
Before you say oooo you got owned you mad.........
Since release I've gotten 30+ kills with this garmur. I write this post because this ship is truely op.... needs balancing. |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
2182
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 01:20:00 -
[2] - Quote
DHB WildCat wrote:Frig.....
8.3km/sec before overheating cap stable.... yes with booster alt.
150 dps at 70km.
59 km disruptor before overheating to 70km.
Seriously I speed tank light missiles... this ship is faster than light missiles as it orbits other frigs that cant even lock it while still pointing. I understand the idea behind this ship, however CCP.... its nerf bat time.
Before you say oooo you got owned you mad.........
Since release I've gotten 30+ kills with this garmur. I write this post because this ship is truely op.... needs balancing.
The Orthus is worse imo.
BYDI recruitment closed-ish |
Dato Koppla
Elite Guards
579
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 01:40:00 -
[3] - Quote
Maybe nerf booster alts? I'm sure the tank on it is paper thin and Interceptors/Fast T1/Faction frigs will be able to scram it and kill it if you don't have the massive booster alt advantage on them. |
Praxis Ginimic
Whine T3ar Brewery
796
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 02:03:00 -
[4] - Quote
The cruiser does have enough fitting for all the things. I haven't indicted in one yet but eft says it is a scary beast of a ship.
On that note... ISD please move this thread to C&P. These complaints are a crime |
Christopher Mabata
Dominion Tenebrarum
New Eden's Misfits Alliance
11
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Posted - 2014.06.07 02:08:00 -
[5] - Quote
I like the Garmur and the Orthrus As they are, sure it might seem unusual for a frigate to have the tackle range of say an Arazu, but your still doing meager DPS ( high for a frig but not vs anything else really )
And not everyone will have a booster alt running with theirs or Snakes like i ( Think ) yours may. The ship is really quite nice in the hands of an average pilot, its when exceptional pilots step in that a ship becomes well "Exceptional" especially when what most of that means is More SP, More ISK, and Alts
Christopher "The Mabata"
CEO, Black Ops Admiral, And Head US TZ Diplo
Dominion Tenebrarum / New Eden's Misfits Alliance / The Dark Corner Coalition |
Praxis Ginimic
Whine T3ar Brewery
796
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 02:17:00 -
[6] - Quote
DHB WildCat wrote:Frig.....
8.3km/sec before overheating cap stable.... yes with booster alt.
150 dps at 70km.
59 km disruptor before overheating to 70km.
Seriously I speed tank light missiles... this ship is faster than light missiles as it orbits other frigs that cant even lock it while still pointing. I understand the idea behind this ship, however CCP.... its nerf bat time.
Before you say oooo you got owned you mad.........
Since release I've gotten 30+ kills with this garmur. I write this post because this ship is truely op.... needs balancing.
I seriously doubt your stats. It is a pretty powerful platform but without hg plants and alts its not nearly as op as you're making it out to be
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Christine Peeveepeeski
Rodents of Unusual Size
528
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Posted - 2014.06.07 03:32:00 -
[7] - Quote
I have too disagree for what it's worth... very few people can bring the skills needed to the table to actually fly these at the level they can be considered OP.
An average pilot in a t2 fitted worm = god.
An average pilot in a t2 fitted garmur = an annoyance.
Bare in mind you also have the ability to pick the right fights and get the right engagement most of the time. This ship really rewards that. Looking at your killboard you've not really tested yourself in it either by the looks of it (although killboards rarely show a fight for what it actually is and I do not mean to disrespect the people you were fighting as some of them may indeed have been skilled pilots).
So far I would say it's fine, although as the meta plays out we will find out I am sure.
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Nimrod vanHall
Van Mij Belastingvrij
87
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Posted - 2014.06.07 05:29:00 -
[8] - Quote
And then a dramiel with links, HG snakes and an attitude speedtanks your missiles and either you gtfo or he manages to land a scram on you. |
Nad'x Hapax
Hapaxa
51
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Posted - 2014.06.07 07:31:00 -
[9] - Quote
Are u ppl really bringing skill into this? Really?
Its impossible to catch and will be a serious pain in the backside for almost anything, anyone, gang or solo, without bringing skill into the equation. All an inty can ever hope to do to it is to drive it away or die trying.. |
carbomb
Super Team Munkey
15
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Posted - 2014.06.07 08:37:00 -
[10] - Quote
DHB WildCat wrote:Frig.....
8.3km/sec before overheating cap stable.... yes with booster alt.
150 dps at 70km.
59 km disruptor before overheating to 70km.
cant get near your stats except point range) even with hg snakes & maxed loki links. That must be some fit you got there..... |
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Lloyd Roses
611
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Posted - 2014.06.07 08:55:00 -
[11] - Quote
How is this fundamentally different from a crow with snakes/booster?
That also points you out to 45k cold without faction, and does around 70% of that dps...
"I honestly thought I was in lowsec"
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Odithia
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
41
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Posted - 2014.06.07 09:18:00 -
[12] - Quote
Lloyd Roses wrote:How is this fundamentally different from a crow with snakes/booster?
That also points you out to 45k cold without faction, and does around 70% of that dps...
Looks like you already got it.
The Crow is already borderline.
The Garmur break that line with more point range and more dps. |
Lloyd Roses
611
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Posted - 2014.06.07 09:51:00 -
[13] - Quote
It's more like snakes/links can create a big gap in powerlevel if your weapon system (light missiles) allows to fully exploit the range, comparing to a ship without any of the two.
"I honestly thought I was in lowsec"
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Maeltstome
Twisted Insanity.
The Kadeshi
468
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Posted - 2014.06.07 09:55:00 -
[14] - Quote
Linked, Snaked, faction fit frigates aren't pheasible outside of RVB 1v1's and Hi-Sec wars. Jump that into a gate camp and see how effective it is.
I remember Crow's moving at 18km/s without links. That was OP. |
Last Wolf
Umbra Wing
337
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Posted - 2014.06.07 10:05:00 -
[15] - Quote
Considering DBH Wildcat used to PvP in a 5-6 bill officer fit Mach... I imagine his Garmur is probably worth 1.5b or more not including his pod.
That awkward moment at the Gentlemen's Club when you see your sister on the stage....and you're not sure where to put the money.... |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
2184
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Posted - 2014.06.07 10:20:00 -
[16] - Quote
Maeltstome wrote:Linked, Snaked, faction fit frigates aren't pheasible outside of RVB 1v1's and Hi-Sec wars. Jump that into a gate camp and see how effective it is.
I remember Crow's moving at 18km/s without links. That was OP.
What? Loads of people run exactly that in low sec.. And sure you could get gate camped.. But how often does that happen? I've died to gatecamps maybe five or six times total..
As for people saying those stats aren't real, they are but they are with heat.
The thing you have to take into consideration is how insanely stuff like point range and speed synergizes with lml's.. Thats the biggest problem here, if the garmur had guns you wouldn't be able to do any of that **** because orbiting at 8km would mean you hit ****.
Bring lml's down to the level of small rails and beams when it comes to damage projection at range and the garmur will be a much more reasonable ship. The Garmur and Orthus just show really really well how stupid links and lml's are atm.
BYDI recruitment closed-ish |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile.
Imperial Outlaws.
1743
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 11:15:00 -
[17] - Quote
Once you add in mandatory skirmish links the damage application from LML against small ships is not good. Standard Crash is almost mandatory to compensate. Are you only talking about their range? |
Syrias Bizniz
Zebra Corp
Gentlemen's Agreement
292
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 11:32:00 -
[18] - Quote
Sooooo, here's what a Garmur can look like before links, imps and drugs. Just with some bling, which certainly is in the price range if you wanna fly this jewel.
Derp
Now show me the ship that isn't a Garmur, Gallente or Minmatar Recon / EAF that can catch this one. (Which are basically the ship a Garmur pilot should know are a threat to him.)
And here is how it could look as a Fleet Tackler in 0.0.
Damn, actually, i might get me one now. Or 2. |
Maeltstome
Twisted Insanity.
The Kadeshi
469
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Posted - 2014.06.07 12:12:00 -
[19] - Quote
A linked Rail-Devil is 1 good old fashioned slight shot away from grabbing it, thanks to 10 second MWD cycles another frig can get a nice overheat and catch faster frigs (p.s. MWD cycles being shorter for 1MN variants seems like a really beneficial change IMO) - the extreme range the garmur will operate at is the only thing that might give trouble - but if we rewind and imagine you are in another frig 40+km away and MWD'ing directly away from the garmur, the light missiles wont even touch you. A 10 sec MWD cycle on most t1 frigs moves them over 35KM.
I'm not denying its a good ship, or that Wildcat will roll with expensive stuff, but i'd say the performance quoted from this frig is almost prohibitively expensive given how often it will die. A Mach has a decent chance to crash a gate or 1-shot an unexpected tackler which gives it the 9-lives of a cat in real PVP environments, making it worth the cost.
If we're talking about using this as a tackler, why not just use an EAF and save cash. That 130dps means nothing against something bigger than a frig. Cruisers will have time to de-aggress and jump and if you win a 1v1 fight with a frig (which it wont win against the plethora of Dual-Rep AB frigs there are) then you've still spent a few billion isk just to kill another frigate... It'll work once then the guy brings his rapier alt and grabs the easiest 1bil KM of his Eve career. Good luck using a single rapier against a Mach.
As an addendum I'll say this: I think light missiles need a range adjustment. Its too far right now. This ship is definitely powerful but i think it's hull size balances out its use in real situations. |
Caleb Seremshur
The Atomic Fallout Kids
277
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 13:29:00 -
[20] - Quote
DHB WildCat wrote:Frig.....
8.3km/sec before overheating cap stable.... yes with booster alt.
150 dps at 70km.
59 km disruptor before overheating to 70km.
Seriously I speed tank light missiles... this ship is faster than light missiles as it orbits other frigs that cant even lock it while still pointing. I understand the idea behind this ship, however CCP.... its nerf bat time.
Before you say oooo you got owned you mad.........
Since release I've gotten 30+ kills with this garmur. I write this post because this ship is truely op.... needs balancing.
This is really more of an argument to nerf links than it is to nerf the garmur.
Garmur on SISI with no links and only t2 mods available is nothing impressive.
LP store weapon cost rebalance |
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Praxis Ginimic
Whine T3ar Brewery
797
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Posted - 2014.06.07 13:42:00 -
[21] - Quote
Syrias Bizniz wrote:Sooooo, here's what a Garmur can look like before links, imps and drugs. Just with some bling, which certainly is in the price range if you wanna fly this jewel. DerpNow show me the ship that isn't a Garmur, Gallente or Minmatar Recon / EAF that can catch this one. (Which are basically the ship a Garmur pilot should know are a threat to him.)
And here is how it could look as a Fleet Tackler in 0.0.Damn, actually, i might get me one now. Or 2.
The small amount of bling in that derp fit really doesn't seem to make enough of a difference. I'm getting very near those same stats with my skills, t2, before links & plants.
The fleet fit could certainly hold anything in place for a gang that was a good dozen jumps out. I would feel good about droping plenty of isk onto a concept like that for being a star "content bringer" in a corp. |
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
249
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Posted - 2014.06.07 13:51:00 -
[22] - Quote
if thats op how come the crow isnt? Ship is very strong but fine imo. |
Caleb Seremshur
The Atomic Fallout Kids
277
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 13:53:00 -
[23] - Quote
The guy is talking about spending like 300 mil on a frigate. It's not OP if it needs that much hilariously priced stuff on it.
LP store weapon cost rebalance |
NightmareX
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP
The Marmite Collective
466
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 14:33:00 -
[24] - Quote
Caleb Seremshur wrote:The guy is talking about spending like 300 mil on a frigate. It's not OP if it needs that much hilariously priced stuff on it.
Not only that, but you also have to pay ALOT for the frig. So i would expect it to be pretty good for that price. Currently, it costs around 220 million isk in Amarr (i know the price on it will go down).
Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos.
Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama (31.10.2013): https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=291945
Rebirth 4: http://tinyurl.com/ktfyalo |
Caleb Seremshur
The Atomic Fallout Kids
280
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 15:08:00 -
[25] - Quote
It might take 6 months but it will eventually settle around the 40-50mil mark. Calling it now.
If you get a garmur or orthrus, just sell it now for anything you can get. Current sells are for 800mil, I'd just part with mine for 500mil and deal with it. The price will collapse practically overnight once the new wave of spawns comes.
LP store weapon cost rebalance |
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
1235
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 16:35:00 -
[26] - Quote
The problem is warfare links. |
Nad'x Hapax
Hapaxa
51
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Posted - 2014.06.07 16:47:00 -
[27] - Quote
W0lf Crendraven wrote:if thats op how come the crow isnt? Ship is very strong but fine imo.
aahh i dunno. Maybe the +50 DPS, +300-500m/s and the superior missile speed over the Crow? |
Nad'x Hapax
Hapaxa
51
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Posted - 2014.06.07 16:51:00 -
[28] - Quote
What are u all talking about? My Garmur does (snakes no links) 6400m/s Cold and stable. 42km Point Cold. 50km+ range. 145 DPS.
Garmur will probably be a bit cheaper and the only bling is the faction disruptor. |
Syrias Bizniz
Zebra Corp
Gentlemen's Agreement
292
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 19:51:00 -
[29] - Quote
Maeltstome wrote:A linked Rail-Devil is 1 good old fashioned slight shot away from grabbing it, thanks to 10 second MWD cycles another frig can get a nice overheat and catch faster frigs (p.s. MWD cycles being shorter for 1MN variants seems like a really beneficial change IMO) - the extreme range the garmur will operate at is the only thing that might give trouble - but if we rewind and imagine you are in another frig 40+km away and MWD'ing directly away from the garmur, the light missiles wont even touch you. A 10 sec MWD cycle on most t1 frigs moves them over 35KM.
I'm not denying its a good ship, or that Wildcat will roll with expensive stuff, but i'd say the performance quoted from this frig is almost prohibitively expensive given how often it will die. A Mach has a decent chance to crash a gate or 1-shot an unexpected tackler which gives it the 9-lives of a cat in real PVP environments, making it worth the cost.
If we're talking about using this as a tackler, why not just use an EAF and save cash. That 130dps means nothing against something bigger than a frig. Cruisers will have time to de-aggress and jump and if you win a 1v1 fight with a frig (which it wont win against the plethora of Dual-Rep AB frigs there are) then you've still spent a few billion isk just to kill another frigate... It'll work once then the guy brings his rapier alt and grabs the easiest 1bil KM of his Eve career. Good luck using a single rapier against a Mach.
As an addendum I'll say this: I think light missiles need a range adjustment. Its too far right now. This ship is definitely powerful but i think it's hull size balances out its use in real situations.
No, the DD will never catch it.
When the DD can apply a web, the Garmur can already apply a Scram. Either the DD is AB fit, then it will never, ever, in the entire fight get close enough for a web, or it's mwd, and the webbed Garmur will still go faster than the scrammed DD.
The other argument brought later for 'if you put that much ISK on it then it should be this strong': Well, go ahead, put 500m into a Breacher, you'll never be getting the Garmur's performance.
The combination of scramrange (hands down, one of the two strongest bonuses in the game) and perfectly applied damage that can't even get outrun properly thanks to velocity bonus makes this ship so strong.
Added the high mobility of the hull, the only limiting factors are it's locking range and it's total dps.
And no, bringing a Rapier is not going to get this ship killed easily. You have enough time between Rapier on grid and Rapier applying webs to safely warp off.
Edit: What has been the Dramiel in the days of olde will most likely be the Garmur once it's availability is becoming better. |
Phaade
Perimeter Defense Systems
Templis CALSF
174
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Posted - 2014.06.07 22:27:00 -
[30] - Quote
Links are the problem. CCP loves links (extra subscription money) over balance, thus there will never be balance in Eve. |
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