Frig.....

8.3km/sec before overheating cap stable.... yes with booster alt.
150 dps at 70km.
59 km disruptor before overheating to 70km.


Seriously I speed tank light missiles... this ship is faster than light missiles as it orbits other frigs that cant even lock it while still pointing. I understand the idea behind this ship, however CCP.... its nerf bat time.



Before you say oooo you got owned you mad.........

Since release I've gotten 30+ kills with this garmur. I write this post because this ship is truely op.... needs balancing.

Frig.....

8.3km/sec before overheating cap stable.... yes with booster alt.
150 dps at 70km.
59 km disruptor before overheating to 70km.


Seriously I speed tank light missiles... this ship is faster than light missiles as it orbits other frigs that cant even lock it while still pointing. I understand the idea behind this ship, however CCP.... its nerf bat time.



Before you say oooo you got owned you mad.........

Since release I've gotten 30+ kills with this garmur. I write this post because this ship is truely op.... needs balancing.

Frig.....

8.3km/sec before overheating cap stable.... yes with booster alt.
150 dps at 70km.
59 km disruptor before overheating to 70km.

How is this fundamentally different from a crow with snakes/booster?

That also points you out to 45k cold without faction, and does around 70% of that dps...

Linked, Snaked, faction fit frigates aren't pheasible outside of RVB 1v1's and Hi-Sec wars. Jump that into a gate camp and see how effective it is.

I remember Crow's moving at 18km/s without links. That was OP.

Frig.....

8.3km/sec before overheating cap stable.... yes with booster alt.
150 dps at 70km.
59 km disruptor before overheating to 70km.


Seriously I speed tank light missiles... this ship is faster than light missiles as it orbits other frigs that cant even lock it while still pointing. I understand the idea behind this ship, however CCP.... its nerf bat time.



Before you say oooo you got owned you mad.........

Since release I've gotten 30+ kills with this garmur. I write this post because this ship is truely op.... needs balancing.

Sooooo, here's what a Garmur can look like before links, imps and drugs. Just with some bling, which certainly is in the price range if you wanna fly this jewel.

Derp



Now show me the ship that isn't a Garmur, Gallente or Minmatar Recon / EAF that can catch this one. (Which are basically the ship a Garmur pilot should know are a threat to him.)

And here is how it could look as a Fleet Tackler in 0.0.

Damn, actually, i might get me one now. Or 2.

The guy is talking about spending like 300 mil on a frigate. It's not OP if it needs that much hilariously priced stuff on it.

if thats op how come the crow isnt? Ship is very strong but fine imo.

A linked Rail-Devil is 1 good old fashioned slight shot away from grabbing it, thanks to 10 second MWD cycles another frig can get a nice overheat and catch faster frigs (p.s. MWD cycles being shorter for 1MN variants seems like a really beneficial change IMO) - the extreme range the garmur will operate at is the only thing that might give trouble - but if we rewind and imagine you are in another frig 40+km away and MWD'ing directly away from the garmur, the light missiles wont even touch you. A 10 sec MWD cycle on most t1 frigs moves them over 35KM.

I'm not denying its a good ship, or that Wildcat will roll with expensive stuff, but i'd say the performance quoted from this frig is almost prohibitively expensive given how often it will die. A Mach has a decent chance to crash a gate or 1-shot an unexpected tackler which gives it the 9-lives of a cat in real PVP environments, making it worth the cost.

If we're talking about using this as a tackler, why not just use an EAF and save cash. That 130dps means nothing against something bigger than a frig. Cruisers will have time to de-aggress and jump and if you win a 1v1 fight with a frig (which it wont win against the plethora of Dual-Rep AB frigs there are) then you've still spent a few billion isk just to kill another frigate... It'll work once then the guy brings his rapier alt and grabs the easiest 1bil KM of his Eve career. Good luck using a single rapier against a Mach.

As an addendum I'll say this: I think light missiles need a range adjustment. Its too far right now. This ship is definitely powerful but i think it's hull size balances out its use in real situations.

What? Loads of people run exactly that in low sec.. And sure you could get gate camped.. But how often does that happen? I've died to gatecamps maybe five or six times total..

As for people saying those stats aren't real, they are but they are with heat.

The thing you have to take into consideration is how insanely stuff like point range and speed synergizes with lml's.. Thats the biggest problem here, if the garmur had guns you wouldn't be able to do any of that **** because orbiting at 8km would mean you hit ****.

Bring lml's down to the level of small rails and beams when it comes to damage projection at range and the garmur will be a much more reasonable ship. The Garmur and Orthus just show really really well how stupid links and lml's are atm.

Frig.....

8.3km/sec before overheating cap stable.... yes with booster alt.
150 dps at 70km.
59 km disruptor before overheating to 70km.


Seriously I speed tank light missiles... this ship is faster than light missiles as it orbits other frigs that cant even lock it while still pointing. I understand the idea behind this ship, however CCP.... its nerf bat time.



Before you say oooo you got owned you mad.........

Since release I've gotten 30+ kills with this garmur. I write this post because this ship is truely op.... needs balancing.

It's over 200m. That's really all you need to know to understand why it's not op.

Linked, Snaked, faction fit frigates aren't pheasible outside of RVB 1v1's and Hi-Sec wars. Jump that into a gate camp and see how effective it is.

I remember Crow's moving at 18km/s without links. That was OP.

I'm not able to pick out how the garmur is OP. All these people waffling on about the missiles applying perfect damage I ask to you *how*? Do you know how missiles work at all? Even rockets can be speed tanked.

It's over 200m. That's really all you need to know to understand why it's not op.

Your narrow mindedness is hilarious. Classic, can't think five minutes ahead mentality. The Garmur will stabilize around 60 to 70m. It will still be over powered then. Derp goes the tard.

I'm not able to pick out how the garmur is OP. All these people waffling on about the missiles applying perfect damage I ask to you *how*? Do you know how missiles work at all? Even rockets can be speed tanked.

cant get near your stats except point range) even with hg snakes & maxed loki links. That must be some fit you got there.....

Maybe nerf booster alts? I'm sure the tank on it is paper thin and Interceptors/Fast T1/Faction frigs will be able to scram it and kill it if you don't have the massive booster alt advantage on them.

Use a Claymore or an astarte, loki took a hit to its boost effectiveness during the T3 rebalancing a while back

I can actually almost mimic these stats on EFT but to be practical in game? Not a chance for that cost vs risk

You ever notice how Crows are ******* everywhere but nobody flies Raptors?

Stop whining and bring boosters to help your ceptors as well!!


Wtf people always want to not even have to WORK for something.

Nothing the hookbill can't do if all you do is buy a faction scram. P.S. you try that on a dd pilot worth his salt and he is going to ruin that garmurs day.

Links are the problem. CCP loves links (extra subscription money) over balance, thus there will never be balance in Eve.

Weren't you whining loudly about having to fit a scram in the MMJD thread......irony much?

Stop whining and bring boosters to help your ceptors as well!!


Wtf people always want to not even have to WORK for something.

Everything CCP has said about links has been a straight forward assertion that they're going to be nerfed as soon as the technical issues are resolved.

Unfortunately they have said it would be a miracle if the problem was solved.

All these nuanced discussions of ship balance always boil down to this:

If you do not have a link alt you will not be able to compete in this game.


The problem will come when ccp realizes that although there are 30,000 characters logged in there are only 12,000 actual people playing the game. Maybe it will be at that point that they realize not many people want to play games where you are required to log in multiple characters at once. Whether they really try to solve this technical problem at that point I can't say.

Unfortunately they have said it would be a miracle if the problem was solved.

Hey guys, I used Max Links + HG Snakes with +6% + Strong drug + Deadspace mods.

My ship is OP, I don't understand.

And please buff drugs! Drugs should be the poor mans way to fight HG implanted people.

No, they haven't. They've said it's a very difficult problem that's actively being worked on, in very large part because the exact issue is one of the remaining performance bottlenecks for Jita/fleet fight lag.

You guys will excuse me for not holding my breath while ccp rewrites 12 year old stackless python written by inexperienced programmers..

(As a programmer that sounds like a ******* nightmare)

Drugs are already the poor man's way to fight OGB. Standard Crash is just about mandatory for any missile ship. Buffing drugs though would create a 'potion' situation where everyone would have to use those too.

So what you're saying is that if a pilot uses a faction frigate designed for kiting and a max skilled boosting alt (with a quasi-pricey implant), faction/deadspace mods, high-grade navigation pirate implants and flies sort of sensibly, he can kite well? I would never have guessed.

Wow who woulda thought something with a point range bonus, LMLs, and fast speed could be abused in a 1v1 with snakes and links. Get over yourself. It's a fairly **** ship for fighting gangs with. You can easily kill it with 2 snaked, linked crows anyway.

You guys dont get what Im saying....

Yes if you put isk into any ship with implants and booster alt.... YES it should be fantastic.


However


This is my point.... That ship you put all that isk into should be fantastic, but it should not be invincible! A shipo should not be able to outrun missiles. Especially light missiles. This ship cannot be tracked by any ship that it is orbiting at full speed. Light missiles hilariously run out of flight time as they try to catch up to it. It can do all this while still pointing its target OUTSIDE RAPIER / HUGINN WEB RANGE AND ARAZU / LACHESIS SCRAM RANGE

These ships are broken

Wow who woulda thought something with a point range bonus, LMLs, and fast speed could be abused in a 1v1 with snakes and links. Get over yourself. It's a fairly **** ship for fighting gangs with. You can easily kill it with 2 snaked, linked crows anyway.

Linked, Snaked, faction fit frigates aren't pheasible outside of RVB 1v1's and Hi-Sec wars. Jump that into a gate camp and see how effective it is.

I remember Crow's moving at 18km/s without links. That was OP.

yup 1 vs 1 that went bad when neutral ospreys started repping. but hey i stay and fight until the end... i accepted the challenge and died....

however i did kill the repping bastard lol! http://genos.killmail.org/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=23965133

Besides the rocket brawler isnt broken, its the lml kiter that is broken.


I did however have a fun fight with rzr today...

malediciton, talos, domi, and arbitrator.... I messed up my orbit and the talos warped.... they then staggered correctly and I got neuted by the domi, lost my point on the malediction.... it warped. Then domi and arby warped 8(

So you don't agree that a ship that absolutely ***** over solo pvp while being relatively meh for groups is a badly badly designed ship?

No, they haven't. They've said it's a very difficult problem that's actively being worked on, in very large part because the exact issue is one of the remaining performance bottlenecks for Jita/fleet fight lag.

You ever notice how Crows are ******* everywhere but nobody flies Raptors?

because raptors are the scram ceptor...being the dps version. They try too hard to be assault frigates with extra warp speed...and frankly not enough dps to justify it.

Also maledictions are everywhere. Not quite as uniquitous is the Ares and the Stiletto is used similarly to the crow. You will notice a similar lack of use of the Crusader, Claw and Taranis. They all have to get in close to be useful and that is primarily where interceptors die (in web range).

The trouble comes in the form of roles. That is when they were re-balancing the interceptor class they couldn't have those ships overshadow assault frigates. So of course they lack the ability to tank and gank in the same manner. Interceptors are flimsy for the most part. They have enough hit points to sustain limited fire. So of course the issue with the DPS versions is that they *try* to be assault frigates but honestly aren't.

What to do? Well honestly nothing at this point. It is more a question of sucking it up. The DPS ones have their use, thought he crusader has no more effective tank than the more balanced slot layout of the malediction...it can kick out around 250 dps with conflagration crystals. I'm not saying you don't pay for it...but it is close to the taranis in effectiveness.

The raptor does OK dps...but is unfairly saddled with an un-bonused missile launcher. It can get decent ehp...6-8K or so depending on links and rig combinations. It isn't stellar and the new ship model doesn't ACTUALLY make it better. It just looks better now.

Maybe nerf booster alts? I'm sure the tank on it is paper thin and Interceptors/Fast T1/Faction frigs will be able to scram it and kill it if you don't have the massive booster alt advantage on them.

DHB - I'm with Apple's on this one. The ship, as a solo frig boat is fantastic but scales terribly when fighting multiple targets. The success you have with it is mainly in part due to your own piloting skill and not the ship being over powered. Links, implants etc all multiply the effect a decent pilot has in a given situation - others are flying this ship with a similar setup to you - they are dying more regularly.

Am just gonna leave this here

No kill id specified.

i get this when i try to link from ours as well, godame it im curious now though!

Remove the "amp;" from the URL.