Cal-Gal vs Amarr-Min? :P

Cal-Gal vs Amarr-Min? :P

That's the fact, despite how The Scope, or Nugoeihuvi may look to spin it.

Pirates. We need FW for pirate factions.

The FW can't end

Why you gotta hate on us like that?

It'll be a cold day in hell when The Empress talks to Shakur as an equal publically.

Pirates. We need FW for pirate factions.

Just because the Ishukone Corporation is working on Caldari Prime, it doesn't mean they represent the opinion or actions of the State as a whole.

Peaceful handover of Arcurio to Ishukone administration? ..Yes.

Ishukone adminstration =/= State Administration.
Material Acquisition administration =/= Federal Administration.

That's the fact, despite how The Scope, or Nugoeihuvi may look to spin it.

Remember that Caldari Prime is still declared a de-militarized zone, with Mordu's Legion Command wedged in there to provide third party security.

The State and Federation themselves are still very much at odds.

You guys are too quick to assume that good words you might read in the press mean that things are peachy.

THE scope, not scope works, is the fox news of eve.

Pirates. We need FW for pirate factions.

The State and Federation themselves are still very much at odds.

You guys are too quick to assume that good words you might read in the press mean that things are peachy.

If Gallente-Caldari relations are improving there's absolutely no reason why FW shouldn't be shut down.

They aren't.

Just because Ishukone is playing nice with the Federation, it doesn't mean that the State is. Ishukone =/= the Caldari State

There's no reason for the State and the Federation to be fighting a war at this point. There's nothing left to fight over. It's literally become a joke at this point. Everyone knows it's a waste of time, money and manpower and that neither side can win it.

The only reason FW still exists is because the mechanic still exists.

or by winning it.

But there is no way to win it.

There's no-one who would intentionally engage and continue engaging in a war that was impossible to win.

the last thing Roden wants is to be questioned on an economic downturn when he can take the hawk's position of continuing to defend the Federation's borders against the Caldari thread

Effectively, the two are playing military chicken with eachother for political and economic gain, and are pretty much in a state of cold war with capsuleers fighting for them by proxy.

War is bolstering both the State and Federal economies with very little actual investment from them, since they're fighing it via proxy.

There are a hell of a lot of conflicts in the real world, some extremely recent, that have less miltary and security related justification and far more heavily linked ecomomic and political reasons for sustainment.

It's true that real world examples of war before the advent of most new battlefield technology, (i.e. World War II) have shown that prosperity is restored by the sharp drop in spending, taxes and regulation at the end if a conflict, along with a huge proportion of the regular workforce "coming home" from deployment.

However this isn't the case in modern society, as people who're actively serving in the military tend not to be displaced by war in such huge numbers any more. While there are boots on the ground, a much larger proportion of war is now fought by proxy, using drone technology and long range weaponry, which doesn't put huge strain on the blue collar workforce to anywar near the extent that mass deployment of troops used to before the advent of modern warfare.

For the Empyrean War, capsuleers are the proxy.

Regardless of what happens, even if a conflict is impossible to win, if both sides persist in fighting without entering negotiation for a ceasefire, then neither side will back down. As soon as one side does, the other steamrolls through.

Effectively, the two are playing military chicken with eachother for political and economic gain, and are pretty much in a state of cold war with capsuleers fighting for them by proxy.

This is creating sustainable economic demand for goods and services that's keeping both economies from seeing a post conflict slump and recovery, and keeping trillions of people in the blue collar workforce employed and out of military service.

With the Federal elections coming up, the last thing Roden wants is to be questioned on an economic downturn when he can take the hawk's position of continuing to defend the Federation's borders against the Caldari thread, and keep his re-election campaign clean cut.

Similarly, the State is in a process of recovery from the administration of Tibus Heth. The last thing the Chief Executive Panel is looking for is an economic downturn when most of the megacorporations - Kaalakiota (who, despite being the largest megacorporation the State, almost went bankrupt under Heth's control) and Ishukone included, are still recovering from massive misappropriation of their funds and asset seizures by the CPD.

I completely disagree with this assessment. I don't understand how you could possibly arrive at this conclusion. It's ridiculous.

They're doing it because the people in charge have something to gain from it. Why is that difficult to understand? Hell, look at some of the players involved: the President of the Federation owns a vast shipbuilding enterprise with Navy contracts; several Caldari megacorporations, not least of which Kaalakiota (of which Tibus Heth was once CEO) are major arms manufacturers. War in New Eden is very good for business, particularly the business of those in the position to end it (and who therefore have no incentive to do so).

But there is no way to win it.

There's no-one who would intentionally engage and continue engaging in a war that was impossible to win.

I love that this thread became a thing again. It hurts to read these forums while unsubbed and know I can't reply. Good to be back, and good to know people still care about this.

With the Federal elections coming up, the last thing Roden wants is to be questioned on an economic downturn when he can take the hawk's position of continuing to defend the Federation's borders against the Caldari threat, and keep his re-election campaign clean cut.

Similarly, the State is in a process of recovery from the administration of Tibus Heth. The last thing the Chief Executive Panel is looking for is an economic downturn when most of the megacorporations - Kaalakiota (who, despite being the largest megacorporation the State, almost went bankrupt under Heth's control) and Ishukone included, are still recovering from massive misappropriation of their funds and asset seizures by the CPD.

Propose an alternative that explains over six years of constant warfare fought by irregular forces in strictly limited frontier territories with no apparent consequences or threat to the integrity or security of Empire core worlds, no end in sight, and, as you put it, no way to win.

So the way things are currently going look pretty good. It feels like the majority of the reason for GalCal war is solved. Heth is out. Largest cities of Caldari Prime are in Caldari hands showing a trend towards peaceful Caldari ownership. Diplomacy is securing what force won. So where does the story go from here?

The FW can't end. Such a large mechanic like that can't reasonably be removed. So what explodes next? Something has to happen to keep the fires of war between the two burning. There aren't enough Diana Kim's to keep the war going on pure hatred.

IC I would love for the war to end. Hatred of that war is actually one of the things that pushed Polevhia to where she is now. But there has to be an earth shattering kaboom. Sooner or later.

To elaborate on my somewhat terse reply - dodgy lore is being written to justify the continuation of badly designed, poorly-maintained game mechanics, which in turn is perpetuating the continuation of the badly designed, poorly-maintained game mechanics.

What should actually be happening is CCP should either be radically revising the game mechanics in question, or failing that, using the lore as a justification for removing them. If the lore dictates that a game mechanic should be gotten rid of? Get rid of it.

That and it is now so deeply rooted in the game economy that killing it would devastate entire portions of the community in terms of income, primary reason to play and industrial efforts.

No idea how to tackle it, but it seems more about changing the angle of the dig, rather than stopping the digging entirely. We're too deep and too steep to climb up now :S.

No, that'd still be bad lore because it's propping up an inherently unrealistic situation in which there's no believable, let alone realistic reason for the war to continue.

FW is broken as hell and we all know it - it's the job of the lore to highlight that, not to prop it up.

No, that'd still be bad lore because it's propping up an inherently unrealistic situation in which there's no believable, let alone realistic reason for the war to continue.

FW is broken as hell and we all know it - it's the job of the lore to highlight that, not to prop it up.

The idea that the Empires could be in a war for 6 years strains credibility! There's no way the Empires could prop up a lame war with ****** excuses that long.

*Goes back to protesting the 13 year long war in Afghanistan*

And here's another thing, okay? If players have the ability to continue the war, then players should also have the ability to assist in the peace process. Players need to be able to have a tangible effect on the story.