How many data sites did you do? What's the average of that amount? Is it a even representative amount? Have you ever considered you may be suffering from entitlement issues? Questions, questions.

Over the last few months I've run hundreds of sites. the one I quoted was my most recent - I usually leave data sites now (for said reasons) but not having much time I gave it a go. 1.5mill. A joke.
on average i would say data sites bring in about 5-15mill - filling half your cargo hold.
Relic sites 30-50mill, some at 100 mill (rare I acknowledge).

With relics you can hold over a billion worth of loot - more than worth the risk.
Data - about 250mill - they just aren't worth doing.

Like many explorers before me - as discussed on forums/in person - I've decided to ignore them and remove my data module.

Either that or I will become a saboteur and purposely destroy all data sites until they are improved.

or dispense with it altogther.

When I first subscribed a few months ago hacking was my chosen profession.

Cool

More for the rest of them

rigs ..

Data sites were always crap, worth skipping altogether, or scanning for bpos then moving on. They go into the category of pointless crap exploration clutter with bases, fortresses, radiance, hierarchy........

Ah, yes, the completely worthless plexes like radiance and hierarchy. It would be nice if CCP actually added a good loot table to the overseer rats there so they drop deadspace drone modules on a fairly regular base. And not after some escalation which leads to nothing all to often. Or just remove them all together from non drone space.

I also agree that exploration has been made too easy. I used to do a lot of that in the early days, but since they dumbed it down everybody and their horse is doing it, and its hard to find decent sites. It was better when you actually had to think about it. I also think they should reintroduce rats into data and relic sites again. I also think they shoudl remove the autoscan feature, and return it to how it was, so you had to actively scan for anomalies with your ship scanner, and need to throw out your scanprobes to actually find out if ther is a sig in system at all.

Exploration isn't the only option available to you. Try ratting or plexing. If this isn't do-able with you skill points, return to empire and eek out a living with the other newbies.

When Odyssee hit the prices of typical data loot dropped significantly, because they saturated the market. So you are still seeing the market effect of a huge amount of data loot being injected into the economy, making the stuff very cheap. Check back in a while, as more and more items are consumed their price might actually rise due to lesser availability.

Text.

And /thread.


OP, please take a moment to realize that the value of any in-game item - including data site loot - is determined by this very cool feature called 'The Market'.

If the average data site loot market value is indeed as crappy as you say, it means that either there are far too many people that are running the sites or that very few people give a damn about the stuff you find.

Remember, it's other players that give you ISK for your exploration efforts, not CCP (NPCs).

Why should players pay you more if they don't need the stuff you find?

You should come and join me...I know where there are loads of data sites spawning. right now there are 4 in my main's system. none of us are going to do them because, as said, they are worthless.

Might just go and blow them up.

Hacking went to hell when they removed the rats from the sites, when it took more than any old ship with a probe launcher on it to get the stuff out of sites.

CCP tried to use loot spew to get people to work together to do exploration. The rats in the sites did more for teamwork than loot spew. Used to do exploration with friends when there were rats in the sites, especially out in 0.0. Now you don't need any teamwork whatsoever to explore, making it much easier for anyone to do it. That's what has driven the prices down so much, why there are so few worthwhile sites left for everyone.

They should also make exploration site containers non-scannable so people cannot take only the good stuff, and leave the junk for everyone else. Also find that annoying, take the time to find a site, get there, and see someone has already looted the good stuff.

Tried one site after they dumbed it down....still waiting for all my wasted MONTHS of skill training to be reimbursed.

Many long time player did only exploration and mining of lucrative mining sigs. All I knew that did it in high sec have unsubbed.

With relics you can hold over a billion worth of loot - more than worth the risk.
Data - about 250mill - they just aren't worth doing.

Either that or I will become a saboteur and purposely destroy all data sites until they are improved.

Good

If you cant work out how to play so badly that you have to quit, why stop at games?

Try doing that with everything

My friends who unsubbed ENJOYED the old way and thought the new way was lame and noobified and unsubbed.

Why are so many empty containers?

Last month I spent 2 weeks out in nulsec running exploration content. I did this very casually, appx 12 hours total work. I made 3B isk in loot. Then took the nearest connecting wormhole back to empire.

If you are so bad at exploration that you can't make enough isk to satisfy yourself, you really should just leave it to your betters.

Have you done exploration since the latest patch? From my experience and what I've heard the profit and amount of sites has been nerfed quite a bit.

And /thread.


OP, please take a moment to realize that the value of any in-game item - including data site loot - is determined by this very cool feature called 'The Market'.

If the average data site loot market value is indeed as crappy as you say, it means that either there are far too many people that are running the sites or that very few people give a damn about the stuff you find.

Remember, it's other players that give you ISK for your exploration efforts, not CCP (NPCs).

Why should players pay you more if they don't need the stuff you find?

Well you have experienced and heard wrong.

The speed you can do sites now well outstrips the table modification and theres no change to the proliferation. If anything its because more people are now doing them faster.

Haha, my experience is correct, my conclusion just may be wrong.

You're one of few to say as such, I could agree with the amount of explorers after the patch hindering the isk/hour but the amount of empty containers or containers with just carbon and other low value loot is disheartening. We'll just have to see how things play out.

a lot of the fiscal viability of the profession is going to be tied-up with whatever happens to decryptors in Crius.

I like what you've done with your hair

blow out and bob.

There is a lot that can be done to improve the exploration profession. I think they should have a way to escalate like their combat site counter parts. Intercept some communication data, gives you a journal update and you're off on a quest. Naturally escalations should be harder. More difficult hacking, perhaps some defenses. The escalation could even be for a combat site to mix professions up.

Overall I think the pay out on these sites needs to be increased. There are risks involved, and a lot of time. I never feel quite as vulnerable than when i have that mini game up.

But I think escalations would be a great way to up the difficulty so "just anyone in a ship with a probe launcher" can't do them and give the people who specialized a little reward for their investment.

On a whole other lever there are some interesting pvp applications that could be explored. I'm just spit balling here but some creative ideas that come to mind are Maybe hack a stargate and delay jumps for a minute. To prevent reinforcements, or escape. Maybe hack the gate guns to work in your sides favor. Hack POS defenses, or access the fuel and stront cargo area so you can see how long it will reinforce for etc. Maybe hack a ship in pvp to disable a module. Can you imagine exploring getting jumped and quickly having to hack the ships warp disruptor to shut it down and escape. That would be the most intense mini game ever lol. I would also love to hack a wreck and see the kill mail from the ships black box lol.

Last month I spent 2 weeks out in nulsec running exploration content. I did this very casually, appx 12 hours total work. I made 3B isk in loot. Then took the nearest connecting wormhole back to empire.

If you are so bad at exploration that you can't make enough isk to satisfy yourself, you really should just leave it to your betters.

And /thread.




I think you're forgetting the point the OP is trying to make, data site loots are crap and should be on par with relic sites. And that the loot from relic sites isn't even as good anymore since the last patch.

I know you want to sound all smart and teach about the Market and the economy, but really you just sound condescending (a ****).

I think you're forgetting the point the OP is trying to make, data site loots are crap and should be on par with relic sites. And that the loot from relic sites isn't even as good anymore since the last patch.

I know you want to sound all smart and teach about the Market and the economy, but really you just sound condescending (a ****).

Hey guys, before the loot spew, I used to make over 500m/site. After loot spew, I made about...300-400 per site. Now that loot spew is gone, I make about 500m/site. What am I doing wrong?

I've found empty, unhacked containers in fresh sites. They do exist. But I am still not that concerned about the current state of exploration. Personally, I think it would be best if they reduced the spawn rate of sites and eliminated cargo scanning cans (and/or forced despawn of empty grid sites after a hacking attempt has been made). But a lot of the fiscal viability of the profession is going to be tied-up with whatever happens to decryptors in Crius.

I see your point...but I must admit I lkie the fact that exploration is a good all round solo enterprise. Personally, I prefer working alone.
All I ask is that data loot be reexamined and for the sites to be vastly more diverse. And for it to tie in with lore. Hmm, maybe I am asking alot....

But...isk to get a ship to get isk to get a ship to get isk...etc etc etc....should be more than this.

I've just run a site - total value 1.5mill!!!!!!! 1.5mill when you risk pirates, plus the time it takes to find/run the sites.

A few months and one site, and you're an expert. Oh please, Lord and Master of all Hacking Knowledge, how can I be more like you?

Remiel, post 4 adds some additional relevant information.

Over the last few months I've run hundreds of sites. the one I quoted was my most recent - I usually leave data sites now (for said reasons) but not having much time I gave it a go. 1.5mill. A joke.
on average i would say data sites bring in about 5-15mill - filling half your cargo hold.
Relic sites 30-50mill, some at 100 mill (rare I acknowledge).

With relics you can hold over a billion worth of loot - more than worth the risk.
Data - about 250mill - they just aren't worth doing.

Like many explorers before me - as discussed on forums/in person - I've decided to ignore them and remove my data module.

Either that or I will become a saboteur and purposely destroy all data sites until they are improved.

Lol OMG hardcore lies and a "promise" of vandalism

Nice

Please improve data site loot/the hacking profession, or dispense with it altogther. In its current state null hacking is a complete waste of time.

When I first subscribed a few months ago hacking was my chosen profession. It isn't what I thought it would be.

I've just run a site - total value 1.5mill!!!!!!! 1.5mill when you risk pirates, plus the time it takes to find/run the sites.

then there's the weight of the loot - a covops doesn't have a big enough cargo to carry the stuff data cans drop. What are you supposed to do? Hack and fill cargo and then transport your 2million isk worth of goods through gate camps and bubbles to jita to sell? A joke.

Surely data sites should be worth 50mill +, then it would make them worthwhile.

Firstly exploration has been around for many many years (longer than me in fact) and it was a nice niche in eve that took thought and dedication and provided excellent rewards to those who invested in the skills as i did. The goods provided were always in demand and the items that relied on them for production still got produced in enough quantities to provide a vibrant market.

In CCP-¦s efforts to gain more people (well Money to **** away on their coke addled distractions) they decided to make Exploration nothing more than mission running without an agent in many respects. They dumbed it down to the point of idiot proof and then they made it into a click fest tablet game with a click fest reward retrieval system that was just a manifestation of their lack of vision and jumping on the latest fad in the pointless time wasting game genre to compensate.

The result of all this is a vast over supply of goods gained at no real risk, they made it easy and this is what happens, like nano-¦s and countless other lack of foresight game design-wise screw ups it requires a huge nerf.

Getting rid of spew containers probably had more to do with server load than any game play reason, all those spew containers take cpu cycles, but its a start, the click fest mini game should also go (its great for the cat on the tablet, but in eve, get serious), the rats should return so u gotta go mob handed or be skilled enough to deal with it; containers should be made scanner proof so its pure chance just like wreck loot so that cherry picking that leaves sites up until a good Samaritan hacks them for the general good ends.

I-¦m sorry that you think you can play eve without thought and effort, that easy mode should be the norm and that Jita is the only place to trade, but reward should reflect effort and risk and you seem to want to avoid both.

may i humbly suggest that you take up another occupation for your mouse hand that would give you far more pleasure instead of changing your behavior to suit the changing circumstances you find yourself under.

edit:spelling/format

A few months and one site, and you're an expert. Oh please, Lord and Master of all Hacking Knowledge, how can I be more like you?

I-¦m sorry that you think you can play eve without thought and effort, that easy mode should be the norm and that Jita is the only place to trade, but reward should reflect effort and risk and you seem to want to avoid both.

thanks for your insights. Yet again I am overwhelmed by the bigotry of people on these forums.

4. For the guy who says he just ran 3 sites and scopped half a billion - yeah right, get a grip, pure fantasy. Five relic quarrys in a row and you might just scrape half a billion. Data sites? It would take roughly tale between 40-50 sites.

Who said any of this?



What bigotry?



It was a rather lucky haul. If I'd known this thread existed at the time, I would have screenshot it. Don't know how long you've been doing EVE, but you claim a few months. I've been doing it for a few years, including a lot of exploring. I quite enjoy it as a downtime to PVP.

Let me tell you what the actual problem is. It's too easy. It's virtually risk free, even in nulsec. All you have to do is cloak up and disappear if someone not blue enters local, and you will never be risking anything. So good, I'm glad they're worthless. The reward matches the risk if they're worthless. On the other hand, if you suggest increasing the value of loot, then I suggest putting a few crazy hard, really smart battleships in the site to make it actually worth the payoff.

Exploration isn't the only option available to you. Try ratting or plexing. If this isn't do-able with you skill points, return to empire and eek out a living with the other newbies.

3. I have answered those who shout "market market" - I have no issue at all with the market value of individual loot items, and neither would I want to interfere with the market. But what has 2-3 cans per site containing only carbon got to do with the market? Nothing.

That was extremely lucky of you. I have run nullsec data/relic sites everyday since January this year, including serpentis, sansha and gurista systems. I sometimes do this for 6-8 hours on end, scanning dozens of systems.

So... only three factions? Cuz I've been all over. I prefer Sleeper sites, at least they're a challenge.

4. For the guy who says he just ran 3 sites and scopped half a billion - yeah right, get a grip, pure fantasy. Five relic quarrys in a row and you might just scrape half a billion. Data sites? It would take roughly tale between 40-50 sites.

Ah, yes, the completely worthless plexes like radiance and hierarchy. It would be nice if CCP actually added a good loot table to the overseer rats there so they drop deadspace drone modules on a fairly regular base. And not after some escalation which leads to nothing all to often. Or just remove them all together from non drone space.

I-¦m sorry that you think you can play eve without thought and effort, that easy mode should be the norm and that Jita is the only place to trade, but reward should reflect effort and risk and you seem to want to avoid both.



thanks for your insights. Yet again I am overwhelmed by the bigotry of people on these forums.

1. I stated that as a new player I thought hacking and archaeology were going to be about exploring the universe, would contain and tie-in to deep lore, would revolve around a plethora of missions, gaining a deep understanding of npc factions, maybe having to solve chain quests, mysteries....as an example, discovering an old Jovian deep in space who is looking for his daughter and sends me in search of her, and in the process I have to solve lots of clues etc.
If you knew me, or if you had taken the time to read my posts, then you would most definitely not consider me a mindless bimbo.

2. Because none of the above is what hacking/arch is about - a huge disappointment to me when discovering all hacking/arch is about is making isk - then all I asked was that data sites contained worthwhile loot for the risk of being in nullsec, and to bring their value up to that of relic sites.

3. I have answered those who shout "market market" - I have no issue at all with the market value of individual loot items, and neither would I want to interfere with the market. But what has 2-3 cans per site containing only carbon got to do with the market? Nothing.

4. For the guy who says he just ran 3 sites and scopped half a billion - yeah right, get a grip, pure fantasy. Five relic quarrys in a row and you might just scrape half a billion. Data sites? It would take roughly tale between 40-50 sites.

Hunting her down and vaporizing her,
like she deserves,
would be a better option than talking here.

So, the lesson is to accept Eve for what it is. Do not make suggestions. Keep your mouth shut. Leave discussion to those who have been playing for x number of years and whose sole enjoyment is to "vaporise" fellow players. There's a book out there - haven't read it - titled, The Psychopath Test. Go give it a whirl.

Goodbye forums

There's a book out there - haven't read it - titled, The Psychopath Test. Go give it a whirl.

Goodbye (cruel) forums

Or, if you can't be bothered, do this easy test

I got 87%

I was disappoint

I second that

It was the main thing I did in this game for a few years, the thing that finally hooked me to this game. But since the changes, adding the mini-game, the hacking rigs etc, removing the rats to fight, it became crud and very un-EVE like. How I miss the pre-odyssey days. There were no complaints, it worked fine, and nothing about complaining over loot as all it has become now. sad-sad.

thanks for the tip. However, why should I be forced into another profession when I was sold on the idea of hacking from day 1? Plus, I have alts that do other things.

They should also make exploration site containers non-scannable so people cannot take only the good stuff, and leave the junk for everyone else. Also find that annoying, take the time to find a site, get there, and see someone has already looted the good stuff.

No container spawns empty

But cherrypicking asses who think of no one but themselves just take the good stuff and leave crap, meanign the site doesnt respawn and gives the false impression of worthless sites, which in turn are useless for me to camp.

Some explorers are more selfish than Isboxers, sometimes

No container spawns empty

But cherrypicking asses who think of no one but themselves just take the good stuff and leave crap, meanign the site doesnt respawn and gives the false impression of worthless sites, which in turn are useless for me to camp.

Some explorers are more selfish than Isboxers, sometimes

How many data sites did you do? What's the average of that amount? Is it a even representative amount? Have you ever considered you may be suffering from entitlement issues? Questions, questions.

I tend the sites like a loving gardener. I blow up the containers that only have crap so that the site will hopefully respawn with better stuff later. The crummy data sites just led me to dump my data analyzer and fit a point.

I guess I'd like to see some improvements to the scanning interface. It can get especially difficult to scan stuff down when a system has a ton of signatures.

exploration which have notoriously bad payouts...

Believe it or not, this is the improved system.

Or, if you can't be bothered, do this easy test

I got 87%

I was disappoint

Scanning was never easier , yet whining continues ....

[quote=Dilligafmofo]...exploring the universe to discover lots of things. Hidden bases. Hidden habitations. Places where you can locate rogue agents who you can perhaps work for. who send you on cryptic quests all over the universe to unlock secrets/other bases....and tying in with lore.

This is PvE. PvE in Eve is dead, and will stay dead because "game content" has been tortured and twisted into meaning "PvP only".