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SiIver Twin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.11.18 15:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
scenario
A pilot is member of an alliance at war. He has his WT's on watch list so he can see non are online and is observant in local to make sure non are around. He sees the coast is clear and heads on out to do some activities, mining/missions/exploring. When someone warps in close to him, he notices nothing strange about this new capsuleer except that they are locking him up. He gives local another check (this could be a scout scanning my ship for the war targets) and notices no war targets in local.
Rapidly he's losing shields as the ship engages on him. The attacker then turns red and it shows him to be a war target. Upon checking his employment history it shows that less than a minute ago he changed into the war corp... then changed back almost as quick. (once the ship died)
Further examination of the fiends history shows that he has performed this type of dirty trick in the past. Many times.
Is this not an exploit?
Worst part is the guy is a right heel and will constantly smack talk after a successful kill, yet he won't war dec with his main character. He does this to minimize his exposure and keep himself safe. |
Onlyasandwich
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2011.11.18 15:42:00 -
[2] - Quote
This is second-hand information for me, but I believe the ruling was that it is okay to change corp in station in such a scenario, but what your WT did was indeed a punishable offense. |
Crias Taylor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
62
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Posted - 2011.11.18 16:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
I think you are thinking of dropping corp while under attack. |
SiIver Twin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.11.18 16:16:00 -
[4] - Quote
No, the dropping corp happened under 30 minutes after the fight though.
After the ship was destroyed he bailed corp back to his original one again his total time was in the War dec corp was 27 minutes. He's obviously only putting applications in, so that when he sees there are very few members online. He moves into place where there is only 1 target. Then accepts it and then engages instantly. |
Khanh'rhh
Sudden Buggery
368
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Posted - 2011.11.18 16:17:00 -
[5] - Quote
Just petition it?
Given his corp history and combat log will give up the game, he's a dead cert for a warning or worse. - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
SiIver Twin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.11.18 16:25:00 -
[6] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote:Just petition it?
Given his corp history and combat log will give up the game, he's a dead cert for a warning or worse.
The member of the alliance that was attacked put the petition in, just thought I'd ask on here while waiting for a response.
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Asuri Kinnes
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
57
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Posted - 2011.11.18 16:26:00 -
[7] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote:Just petition it?
Given his corp history and combat log will give up the game, he's a dead cert for a warning or worse. For sure petition it, if he absolutely did *not* go flashie until he attacked you... that is either a bug, or an exploit. vOv
Wormholes: The *NEW* end game of Eve - Online: No Local. No Lag. No Blues (No Intell Channesl). No Blobs.
NEW FEATURE: NO INCARNA! |
Gazmin VanBurin
Go Petition Blizzard
24
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Posted - 2011.11.18 16:33:00 -
[8] - Quote
It is indeed an exploit, I know people who have got warnings before for using this tactic. |
Lithalnas
Privateers Privateer Alliance
5
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Posted - 2011.11.18 16:53:00 -
[9] - Quote
if they are useing it specifically to cause graphical glitches or get you to concord yourself than it is an exploit. However just because it is illegal does not mean the guy will get punished for it. Your petition will probably get a generic answer back with no action. How to build a PC for EVE thread (by Akira T) http://eve-search.com/thread/1559734-0/page/1
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Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
48
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Posted - 2011.11.19 10:42:00 -
[10] - Quote
If:
1. Corp Infiltrator attacks in-corp high-value target (Jump Freighter/Orca) 2. Gets kicked from corp by director while fighting in space and gets Concorded. = Not an exploit???
(And even if the Concorded infiltrator petitions and gets his ship back, the target still gets to keep his Jump Freighter and it nullifies the entire point of the infiltration in the first place - which might have consumed days or weeks.)
Well, Then:
Using the same mechanics to ambush wartargets must also be valid.
This is the can of worms CCP opened by allowing corp membership to instantly change while flying in space. IMO, it should be reverted, and fast - or at the very least some kind of timer implemented, one hour, two hours, whatever.
I don't want to get into this messy grey "Using the mechanics in 'THIS' way is an exploit, but not in 'THAT' way - and BTW don't talk about it on the forums - petition it, but then don't talk about the petitions on the forums."
Enforcement is likely to be completely uneven, and results of petition enforcement will be nearly unknowable by the community at large. Its BS.
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SiIver Twin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.11.19 11:17:00 -
[11] - Quote
The response received about this states "if there is no session timers I.E. a docking/undocking or jumping through a stargate. Then it is exploiting. There must be at least 1 session timer so that you show as being in the appropriate corp"
The corp have done this twice in 1 day, both times they were on grid and locked up the members of my alliance before making the switch and then opening fire before the pilot could react. |
magic preacher
Concentrated Evil
0
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Posted - 2011.11.19 11:26:00 -
[12] - Quote
or you could argue this
In the past, there have been some policies in place within Customer Support that imposed additional rules onto the war mechanics available in game, such as the so called "Alliance Hopping" or the more recent "Dec Shield".
The decision has been made to lift those restrictions that affect war declarations, thereby opening up ways for corporations to avoid unwanted wars via methods that were previously considered exploits of game mechanics.
In other words: If you can leave or declare a war, raise the costs for other entities to declare one to you or [b]do any other war related things within current normal game mechanics, you may do so without having to keep other rules in mind.[/b
just a thought
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SiIver Twin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.11.19 13:04:00 -
[13] - Quote
magic preacher wrote:or you could argue this https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19881In the past, there have been some policies in place within Customer Support that imposed additional rules onto the war mechanics available in game, such as the so called "Alliance Hopping" or the more recent "Dec Shield". The decision has been made to lift those restrictions that affect war declarations, thereby opening up ways for corporations to avoid unwanted wars via methods that were previously considered exploits of game mechanics. In other words: If you can leave or declare a war, raise the costs for other entities to declare one to you or do any other war related things within current normal game mechanics, you may do so without having to keep other rules in mind.just a thought
All the mentioned exploits that were given free reign were to avoid war decs. This is more about honoring them. They are using underhanded tactics to insure that they are not at risk while able to attack others. And we know if we were to Dec their main corp, they would just bail into NPC corps and do the same again.
I'd suggest a slight change to the war mechanics. Why not that if you join or leave a corp during war time, your status is frozen for 15 minutes. So if you are engaged and quit it won't result in a concording and people can clearly see you've joined a corp before you are able to engage in combat on them. |
Darius III
Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.
354
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Posted - 2011.11.19 13:15:00 -
[14] - Quote
I can't tell you what is and what isn't an exploit-but I would tell you that if this happened to me-I would petition it ASAP. It sounds like this player is stalking targets based on corp of victim and joining just for the combat/WT status at that time. I would also file reimbursement petition :D Good luck and keep us informed-D3 If Women aren't supposed to do the cooking, why are their bodies full of milk and eggs? |
Reppyk
The Black Shell
6
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Posted - 2011.11.19 13:29:00 -
[15] - Quote
It really sounds like the "LSS trick". Which corp/alliance is using it again ? |
Nika Dekaia
3
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Posted - 2011.11.19 14:18:00 -
[16] - Quote
GM Karidor wrote:3) Corp hopping to evade war decs No longer an exploit, with the exception of pilots changing corps while in space AND online (i.e. to"surprise" war targets). Linkage
Still an exploit. Those rules have been updated to reflect the changes to wardeclaration mentioned in preachers post. |
0Lona 0ltor
Red Sky Morning BricK sQuAD.
0
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Posted - 2011.11.19 22:41:00 -
[17] - Quote
I love this, they never bother to ban carebear exploiters, who jump corp to dodge war but the bears want corp hoppers who jump to gank war targets banned. LOL. Hypocracy at its finest. Anyhow just petition you'll get your ship back, any ships lost to war dec just get reinbursed now as CCP does not bother to check if exploits happen due to war decs. They don't refund dropped modules sadly or we could turn this into a big isk fountain. |
Cerisia
Lone Star enterprises
451
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Posted - 2011.11.19 23:04:00 -
[18] - Quote
0Lona 0ltor wrote:I love this, they never bother to ban carebear exploiters, who jump corp to dodge war but the bears want corp hoppers who jump to gank war targets banned. LOL. Hypocracy at its finest. Anyhow just petition you'll get your ship back, any ships lost to war dec just get reinbursed now as CCP does not bother to check if exploits happen due to war decs. They don't refund dropped modules sadly or we could turn this into a big isk fountain.
Dunno maybe it's me but carebears who really don't want to pvp and corp hop to avoid it seems no-where as cowardly as the exploit described in the OP. In fact if you are using this exploit to attack people I'd go so far as to say that you fail at Eve and Pvp in my humble opinion. This space for rent.. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Placid PI Thundering Herd
38
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Posted - 2011.11.20 01:41:00 -
[19] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote:Just petition it?
Given his corp history and combat log will give up the game, he's a dead cert for a warning or worse.
CCP will do NOTHING. Been there....experienced that.................... OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved.
-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
Ammzi
Imperial Guardians Blazing Angels Alliance
121
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Posted - 2011.11.20 03:57:00 -
[20] - Quote
Yes, it is an exploit. quote CCP Spitfire
"Hello Im Blue,"
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Solstice Project
Cult of Personality
169
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Posted - 2011.11.20 09:22:00 -
[21] - Quote
Cerisia wrote:In fact if you are using this exploit to attack people I'd go so far as to say that you fail at Eve and Pvp in my humble opinion.
Tell that Hooride707, he did/does that exploit all the time. ^^
His list of corpjumps is almost hilarious, but i won't check if he still does it.
I've petitioned him once and got told i should report him when i get him in the act, which is ridiculous considering his corp history.
oh well *shrugs*
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Harlot Hohannson
Eye on Wang Poo
7
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Posted - 2011.11.20 12:06:00 -
[22] - Quote
Here we go yo, here we go yo So what so what so what's the scenario Here we go yo, here we go yo So what so what so what's the scenario
Verse One: Phife Dawg
Aiyyo Bo knows this (what?) and Bo knows that (what?) But Bo don't know jack, cause Bo can't rap Well whaddya know? the Di-Dawg is first up to bat No batteries included, and no strings attached No holds barred, no time for move fakin Gots to get the loot so I can bring home the bacon Brothers front, they say the Tribe can't flow But we've been known to do the impossible like Broadway Joe so Sleep if you want, my crew will help you get your Z's troop But here's the real scoop I'm all that and then some, short dark and handsome Bust a nut inside your eye, to show you where I come from I'm vexed, fumin, I've had it up to here My days of payin dues are over, acknowledge we is in there(YEAH) Head for the border, go get a taco I'll be wreckin from the jump street, meaning from the get-go Sit back relax and let yourself go Don't sweat what you heard, and act like you know
Verse Two: Charlie Brown
Yes yes y'all (yes y'all!) who got the vibe it's the Tribe y'all (Tribe y'all!) real live y'all (live y'all!) Inside outside come around... (who's that??) Browwwwwwwwn Some may, I say, call me Charlie The word is the herb and I'm deep like Bob Marley Layback on the payback, [evolve rotate the gates?] CONTACT! Can I get a hit? (HIT!) Boom Bip with a brother named Tip and we're ready to flip East coast stompin, rippin and rompin New York, North Cak-a-laka, and Compton Checka-checka-check it out! The loops for the troops, more bounce to the ounce And wow how now wow how now Brown cow We're ill till the skill gets down For the flex, next, it's the textbook old to the new but the rest are doo-doo From radio, to the video, to Arsenio Tell me! Yo, what's the scenario
Verse Three: Dinco D
(True blue!) Scooby Doo, whoopie doo Scenario's ready yo, rates more than four Scores for the snores that smother dancefloors Now I go for mine, shave the seashore Ship-shape crushed Grapes Apes that play tapes Papes make drakes baked for the wakes of an L-ah, An E-ah, simply just a leader bass in his face means peace see ya later Later? (LATER!) Later alligator Pop goes the weasel and the herb's the inflater So yo the D what the O, incorporated I-N-C into a flow Funk flipped flat back first fist foul fight fight fight Laugh yo how's that sound (ohhhhhh!)
Verse Four: Q-Tip, Busta Rhymes
ItGÇÖs a Leader Quest mission and we got the goods here(here!) Never on the left cause my right's my good ear (ear!) I could give a damn about a ill subliminal Stay away from crime SO I ain't no CRIMINAL <---- I love my young nation, groovy sensation No time for hibernation, only elation Don't ever try to test the water little kid Yo Mr. Busta Rhymes, tell him what I did
I heard you rushed and rushed, AND ATTACKED Then they rebuked and you had TO SMACK Causin rambunction, throughout the sphere Raise the levels of the boom, inside the ear
You know I did it So don't violate or you get violated The hip-hop sound is well agitated Won't ever waste no time on the played out ego So here's Busta Rhymes with the, Scenario
Verse Five: Busta Rhymes
Watch, as I combine all the juice from the mind Heel up, wheel up, bring it back, come rewind Powerful impact BOOM! from the cannon Not braggin, try to read my mind just imagine Vo-cab-u-lary's necessary When diggin into my library Oh my gosh! Oh my gosh! Eating ITAL stew like the one Peter Tosh-a UH uh UH, all over the track, man UH, pardon me, UH, as I come back As I did it yo I had to beg your pardon When I travel to the Sun I roll with the squadron RRRRRROAW RRRRRRROAW like a dungeon dragon Change your little drawers cause your pants are saggin Try to step to this, I will twist you in a turban And have u smelling rank, like some old stale urine Chickity-choco, the chocolate chicken The rear cockdiesel but chicks they were kicking Yo, bustin out before the Busta bust a nut the rhyme the rhythm is in sync (UHH!) the rhymes are on time (TIME!) Rippin up the sound just like a radio Observe the rhyme and check out the scenario!! *chorus starts* Yeah, my man ************!
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Harlot Hohannson
Eye on Wang Poo
7
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Posted - 2011.11.20 12:08:00 -
[23] - Quote
I hope he gets his ass kicked by CCP too. I cant stand cowards that have to rely on cheap mechanics / borderline exploits to get their kills. DISGUSTING |
SiIver Twin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.11.25 11:19:00 -
[24] - Quote
Well the first wave of petitions came back fairly positive, they confirmed that the changing of corp "while in space" to gain an advantage of surprise on a target without taking a session timer I.E. Stargate or docking/undocking is indeed an exploit of the game mechanics.
Although the GM said he would deal with it, the aggressors have continued with this tactic. So the warning if given was not firm enough... Still awaiting fresh responses from the GM's |
el alasar
The Scope Gallente Federation
73
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Posted - 2011.11.25 13:05:00 -
[25] - Quote
Darius III wrote: I can't tell you what is and what isn't an exploit-but I would tell you that if this happened to me-I would petition it ASAP. It sounds like this player is stalking targets based on corp of victim and joining just for the combat/WT status at that time. I would also file reimbursement petition :D Good luck and keep us informed-D3 how can anything being a game mechanic be an exploit/ be exploited? if it is not working as intended the game mechanics need to be fixed. no more, no less. eve is just behaving as programmed.
in this case just introduce a 2h timer to enter or leave a corp once the button was pressed. like when you have roles it takes 24h. more little ideas that need your support: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=261507#post261507 enjoying the order cancellation confirmation? sometimes CCP listens - there is hope after all :) www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1431503 |
0Lona 0ltor
Red Sky Morning BricK sQuAD.
0
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Posted - 2011.11.25 13:32:00 -
[26] - Quote
el alasar wrote:Darius III wrote: I can't tell you what is and what isn't an exploit-but I would tell you that if this happened to me-I would petition it ASAP. It sounds like this player is stalking targets based on corp of victim and joining just for the combat/WT status at that time. I would also file reimbursement petition :D Good luck and keep us informed-D3 how can anything being a game mechanic be an exploit/ be exploited? if it is not working as intended the game mechanics need to be fixed. no more, no less. eve is just behaving as programmed. in this case just introduce a 2h timer to enter or leave a corp once the button was pressed. like when you have roles it takes 24h.
And there is the solution. Once a corp is war dec'd it should have it's joining and leaving mechanics delayed by 7 days for both players and allince. This gives both the war decers and those dec'd no excuse for corp hopping or allowing them to join or dismantle corp just because they are bears or horrible exploiting greifers.
If you do not want to PVP there is a great game called freelancer that can be played with out other players. EVE is a PVP game and the day it allows PVE it will have signed it's own death warrant. |
el alasar
The Scope Gallente Federation
73
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Posted - 2011.11.25 13:42:00 -
[27] - Quote
0Lona 0ltor wrote:el alasar wrote:Darius III wrote: I can't tell you what is and what isn't an exploit-but I would tell you that if this happened to me-I would petition it ASAP. It sounds like this player is stalking targets based on corp of victim and joining just for the combat/WT status at that time. I would also file reimbursement petition :D Good luck and keep us informed-D3 how can anything being a game mechanic be an exploit/ be exploited? if it is not working as intended the game mechanics need to be fixed. no more, no less. eve is just behaving as programmed. in this case just introduce a 2h timer to enter or leave a corp once the button was pressed. like when you have roles it takes 24h. And there is the solution. Once a corp is war dec'd it should have it's joining and leaving mechanics delayed by 7 days for both players and allince. This gives both the war decers and those dec'd no excuse for corp hopping or allowing them to join or dismantle corp just because they are bears or horrible exploiting greifers. exactly, joining a corp should mean commitment, especially in times of war. and if there are already wars ongoing, people entering should also be delayed or pay an extra entry-fee. [/quote]
0Lona 0ltor wrote:If you do not want to PVP there is a great game called freelancer that can be played with out other players. EVE is a PVP game and the day it allows PVE it will have signed it's own death warrant. uhm... pve is a major part of eve?! sadly currently you are required to grind pve for LP / standing. dont get me wrong, i do like pve and think also many others do want to play against an AI, the same time i do despise the static nature of the pve content and that you are required to do pve to get LP / standing. there should be alternative paths to it. and pve should also find you not just hide in mysteriously appearing pockets waiting for you to get plugged... but this is getting off-topic i guess... more little ideas that need your support: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=261507#post261507 enjoying the order cancellation confirmation? sometimes CCP listens - there is hope after all :) www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1431503 |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
395
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Posted - 2011.11.25 13:54:00 -
[28] - Quote
0Lona 0ltor wrote: And there is the solution. Once a corp is war dec'd it should have it's joining and leaving mechanics delayed by 7 days for both players and allince. This gives both the war decers and those dec'd no excuse for corp hopping or allowing them to join or dismantle corp just because they are bears or horrible exploiting greifers.
7 days would be a bit long. And if you allow players to lock other players into a particular corp/alliance, then you open the door for serial griefing where you simply wardec them with alt-corps every N days until the players quit the game because they can never leave the wardec'd corp.
They could just change it so you can't change corps again if you've changed corps within the past 24 hours. Which is similar to the cool-down required if you need to "drop roles". So once you join, you can't instantly leave corp until after the first 24 hours.
Or make it so that joining a corp only takes effect at downtime.
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0Lona 0ltor
Red Sky Morning BricK sQuAD.
0
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Posted - 2011.11.25 17:05:00 -
[29] - Quote
Scrapyard Bob wrote:0Lona 0ltor wrote: And there is the solution. Once a corp is war dec'd it should have it's joining and leaving mechanics delayed by 7 days for both players and allince. This gives both the war decers and those dec'd no excuse for corp hopping or allowing them to join or dismantle corp just because they are bears or horrible exploiting greifers.
7 days would be a bit long. And if you allow players to lock other players into a particular corp/alliance, then you open the door for serial griefing where you simply wardec them with alt-corps every N days until the players quit the game because they can never leave the wardec'd corp. They could just change it so you can't change corps again if you've changed corps within the past 24 hours. Which is similar to the cool-down required if you need to "drop roles". So once you join, you can't instantly leave corp until after the first 24 hours. Or make it so that joining a corp only takes effect at downtime.
You misunderstand what I mean is a corp or player tries to leave they get a 7 day count down then they would drop or if the war ends then they could also drop. Trapping players in corps would not be fair but forcing players and corps to stay for at least 7 days is fair. EVE advertises itself as a game of consequence but the current war dec mechanics are void of all consequence. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
32
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Posted - 2011.11.25 22:47:00 -
[30] - Quote
0Lona 0ltor wrote:Scrapyard Bob wrote:0Lona 0ltor wrote: And there is the solution. Once a corp is war dec'd it should have it's joining and leaving mechanics delayed by 7 days for both players and allince. This gives both the war decers and those dec'd no excuse for corp hopping or allowing them to join or dismantle corp just because they are bears or horrible exploiting greifers.
7 days would be a bit long. And if you allow players to lock other players into a particular corp/alliance, then you open the door for serial griefing where you simply wardec them with alt-corps every N days until the players quit the game because they can never leave the wardec'd corp. They could just change it so you can't change corps again if you've changed corps within the past 24 hours. Which is similar to the cool-down required if you need to "drop roles". So once you join, you can't instantly leave corp until after the first 24 hours. Or make it so that joining a corp only takes effect at downtime. You misunderstand what I mean is a corp or player tries to leave they get a 7 day count down then they would drop or if the war ends then they could also drop. Trapping players in corps would not be fair but forcing players and corps to stay for at least 7 days is fair. EVE advertises itself as a game of consequence but the current war dec mechanics are void of all consequence.
Simpler solution. Disallow joining/leaving a corp unless docked/offline. From the time the button is pressed, the result of the button will come into effect next time one of those conditions are true (to ensure an unwanted player can be kicked). |
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