So what is the real cause? It is obviously my humble (though successful and continuing) attempt at market manipulation. I have 48t invested and making 400b a day.

PLEX nearing 800m--thoughts?

I'm not an econ major, would like to hear some thoughts on people who know more about this kinda stuff?

What's the main factors, you think?

.
Grinding plex is becoming unreasonable even for the most hardnosed

it represents 20USD fixed....its the other end thats moving....in one direction mind you.
Its cheaper to pay cash...especially over the long term

What CCP needs to do is stop interfering with the prices and let natural market forces come at play. Once the prices get high enough and this bubble bursts, prices will start to go down and balance.

Not quite true. Real world prices are on the move upwards, above and beyond the numbers reported by governments and central banks. In fact they are attempting to raise the specter of the deflation boogey man as an excuse to print more money and expand even more credit.

While at the same time, wages have hardly moved for the majority. I would suggest that the supply of money for trivial things has decreased, and let's face it, Eve is trivial compared to eating and paying the mortgage.

Supply and demand!

I heard Goons are holding their own GǣspecialGǥ OlympicsGǪ. The prizes are in plex.
I guess there are a LOT of Gǣspecial snowflakesGǥGǪ. Would certainly explain the LARGE demand.

Yeah rite.... ccp openly admitted they "interfere" in the plex market

The higher it go's the lesser accounts i keep plexed up

Isbox + the rental state of 0.0 is the problem. More people than before have easy access to isk that drives up the demand of PLEX

With simple and plain high sec AFK mining ppl are able to make 30-40 mio ISK a day. That is about 1 bilion a month. I believe this is where PLEX prices go.

I'm sure stuff like this, helps keeping prices down ...

http://www.evevegas2.com/
http://evenews24.com/2014/07/08/eve-is-real-trading-isk-for-goodies-reykjavik-style/

PLEX nearing 800m--thoughts?

"Hard times" in the real world... people need to eat and put gas in their cars... PLEX... not so much.

Or not.

I guess at this rate we're bout to catch up to the chinese server soon?The only question is are the subs going to fall at their lvl too

Posted: 2012.12.20 08:51 | The template on passive profit in EVE is 1% at the top so a player with 75 Billion could plex their account in passive income from that ISK. I'd say there is 5% of EVE in that group and they are former CEO's of massive alliances that fell apart over the years, the said CEO's took the money and run.

Plex has always said more for me than anything forums say or even API sites and wallets. Because we know what a wealthy server looks like thanks to the Chinese server, Serenity we can see where Plex would be if everyone was filthy rich. There Plex go for 2 billion the last I read anything on it. Because we have 600 mill Plex at most, I suspect most players are under the 75 Billion mark.

PLEX nearing 900m--thoughts?

I love all of the wild speculation in here when a well-known trillionaire and character trader has stated the correct reason PLEX have spiked.

They'll fall slightly soon but continue to trend upward medium term.

I can understand a slow and steady increase of plex prices due to inflation and other factors, but COME ON.

I bought a plex ONE WEEK AGO for 725 mil. The lowest I can find right now is 811 mil in Jita, 825 mil everywhere else.

Buncha crap.

UTM

PS. In less than 12 hours, lowest price has risen to 814 mil.

PSS. AAaaaand in another 8 hours, lowest price has risen to 821 mil!

Kwark is blowing his own trumpet - trying to attribute a grand economic change to his own activities.

I just wonder why he made those 250+ chars in a time where PLEX prices are increasing and demand for these pre-built alts is dropping like a stone.

Kwark is blowing his own trumpet - trying to attribute a grand economic change to his own activities.

I just wonder why he made those 250+ chars in a time where PLEX prices are increasing and demand for these pre-built alts is dropping like a stone.

Even doing ****** level 4's in highsec will get you enough money for a plex in 1-2 days.

Rather annoying really since I'm far too lazy to make isk via PVE

Nonsense.

Nonsense.

You clearly don't know anything about this game. If you can't do more than 2-3 missions per hour I dunno what's wrong with your brain but you probably should get checked for some sort of mental degeneracy.

Still, the man is touching upon a point in a roundabout way. Making isk in eve has never been simpler, the creation of tools such as fuzzworks have made high isk/lp conversions possible for the masses, minmatar fw has achieved stable dominance as the isk making faction, incursions have been pretty much worked out and people hold your hands through them while renting (read afk botting anoms) has never been easier to get into.

The amount of work needed for an idiot to make 800m is considerably less than it was for the same idiot 3 years ago to make 400m.

Wich is the only reason why plex can even rise to the current level , yet we have people complaining all over the boards for CCP to ''do something'' . Offcourse it's easier to ask a developer to step in then actually using your brain just for a moment to figure out that '' your isk per hour ratio SUCKS big time compared to others'' and that it's about time to change the way you earn your isk because it really has become an iskgrind in the current way you do it.

But then who wants to think in a game where it is so much easier to generate income by just warping to a belt , lock roids , watch tv''.

Console yourself thinking that EvE is stil relatively "elite" in its player base. I am also playing ESO and they have just butchered the one fun thing in that game (challenging veteran levels) to cater to the masses who could not manage FIVE keys.

You can tell that most of the people in this thread are old school vets. It's only "easy" to make big ISK if you've got all the skills, tools, and accounts necessary to do so.

I challenge each of you to start a fresh 14-day trial (no Power of Two, no PLEX), andstart playing the game like a total noob. Don't transfer ISK or assets between characters. Don't help your new character out with your previously existing characters. Don't accept ISK or assets from existing friends/corpmates. Don't join your current corp. For bonus points, don't use special information/experience that you have access to for the purpose of playing the market. Play as a true noob.

When you have enough ISK to have a stable of ships for your tasks, plus some backups for PvP, and enough for PLEX, THEN tell everyone how "easy" it is.

You can tell that most of the people in this thread are old school vets. It's only "easy" to make big ISK if you've got all the skills, tools, and accounts necessary to do so.

I challenge each of you to start a fresh 14-day trial (no Power of Two, no PLEX), andstart playing the game like a total noob. Don't transfer ISK or assets between characters. Don't help your new character out with your previously existing characters. Don't accept ISK or assets from existing friends/corpmates. Don't join your current corp. For bonus points, don't use special information/experience that you have access to for the purpose of playing the market. Play as a true noob.

When you have enough ISK to have a stable of ships for your tasks, plus some backups for PvP, and enough for PLEX, THEN tell everyone how "easy" it is.

Look out, we have ourselves a bad-ass here.

We need our economist back, let us know what is going on.

Keynesian spotted.

fuzzworks have made high isk/lp conversions possible for the masses,

minmatar fw has achieved stable dominance as the isk making faction,

incursions have been pretty much worked out and people hold your hands through them

while renting (read afk botting anoms) has never been easier to get into.

The amount of work needed for an idiot to make 800m is considerably less than it was for the same idiot 3 years ago to make 400m.

They've admitted to releasing PLEX that were on banned accounts, which would have otherwise hit the market at some point or been used, but I see no reason to assume CCP would poof them into existence. That's essentially comping someone's monthly sub fee.



So what? If you aren't able to pay CCP or have someone else pay CCP in your stead, they're not gaining anything by simply handing you free game time in the form of seeding PLEX themselves.



I don't think isbox is the issue, just a symptom. Neither is renting, which is merely an arrangement between bears and pvp'ers to utilize space that they both want to enjoy. The issue at hand is merely multi-account usership and plex faucets in general. More and more players over the years have discovered two things about EVE:

1. If not absolutely vital for your niche in the game, it's highly preferable that you have more than one account, and many professions scale extremely well with account numbers with or without the aid of isbox. This brings plays who have a short-term windfall of isk + a power of two deal or some other promotion to cash in immediately on more accounts. Only much later when many more players do this is the aggregate effect being felt.

2. ISK faucets are plentiful and easy to tap into. Mission farming, anom ratting, and other isk faucets are staples of pve content and they continuously flood the market with new isk. What's more, even ship destruction itself generates more isk by way of the insurance system. So unless a pilot is dumb enough to buy an insurance plan and let it expire, even if they purchase no insurance at all, the demise of their ship is yet-another isk faucet. Minerals and modules are destroyed, but the supply of isk in the game economy goes up, therefor prices in general rise.

So what we're dealing with here isn't a mere speculative bubble, although i'm sure speculation is feeding into the loop at this point. What we're seeing is the culmination of years upon years of making multiclienting the norm, the popular culture of the "I plex all my accounts so I play for free," meme, and the onerous effects of universal inflation due to unchecked isk faucets.

Given that we're seeing this much of a price hike now, in the summer, when traditionally prices would be lower due to decreased activity; I think it's safe to say that come fall we're either going to see billion isk plex or a fundamental change in how a lot of the more casual multi-client users play the game. They will either have to adapt to a more farming-intensive lifestyle or they will need to cut back on the number of accounts they support. Considering the latter could be a serious competitive disadvantage, I think many players will try to ride out the storm on their savings first, meaning that we'll see critical mass only when those stores of isk have been significantly dented.

You can tell that most of the people in this thread are old school vets. It's only "easy" to make big ISK if you've got all the skills, tools, and accounts necessary to do so.

I challenge each of you to start a fresh 14-day trial (no Power of Two, no PLEX), andstart playing the game like a total noob. Don't transfer ISK or assets between characters. Don't help your new character out with your previously existing characters. Don't accept ISK or assets from existing friends/corpmates. Don't join your current corp. For bonus points, don't use special information/experience that you have access to for the purpose of playing the market. Play as a true noob.

When you have enough ISK to have a stable of ships for your tasks, plus some backups for PvP, and enough for PLEX, THEN tell everyone how "easy" it is.

EVE is not free to play.

Some of what you say is true, Flakeys. I can't help but notice two separate people both put station trading as the way to make ISK for noobs. This assumes they know what to trade and how. But more to the point, if that's the only way to make significant ISK as a noob, that's a problem. Station trading is the least game-like feature of EVE. People who come to blow stuff up aren't going to be interested in trading. This is one of those classic EVE contradictory "here's how you must play in the sandbox" moments. If there's only one or two ways to do something, that's not really a sandbox, is it? (There's also the side issue of what happens if everyone does as suggested and becomes a trader.)

Beyond that, though, EVE really requires alts and alt accounts. That means more PLEX. The "old bros" are complaining because it's getting harder and harder to keep those accounts up and running. Sure your example case is old and has a super-holding toon. He probably has 3 to 5 accounts total, like most/many people who have caps/JFs do. To keep funding them, he's looking at 2.5b to 4.2b to keep it running. At what point does he get to play the game instead of grinding ISK?

PLEX is a choice, sure. I'm willing to pay for one account per month. But, how many people are willing to plunk down $10 per account, per month for multiple accounts (assuming they're willing to commit to a year)? How about $15? Our example would be looking at $30 to $50 on the low end and $45 to $60 on the high end. That's significant money for a GAME. I paid $50 for GW2, once. The fewer accounts people have, the harder it gets to do all those things that alts make possible. The fewer accounts people have, the harder it gets to make ISK. The harder it is to make ISK, the harder it is to PLEX accounts. It's a downward spiral.

I think the market-minded players have it in their heads that if that happens, demand for PLEX will drop, and prices will drop. Problem fixed. Except that as soon as people come back in, the price will go up again. At some point, EVE just becomes a gigantic hassle (and a boring one at that).

Do we really need another thread on this every time the price increases a bit?

Maybe we should look at things from a different angle.

Currently: ~800mil per account, per month.
If you can make 25 mil per hour, then 800 mil = 32 hrs.
If you can make 50 mil per hour, then 800 mil = 16 hrs.
If you can make 75 mil per hour, then 800 mil = 10.6 hrs.
If you can make 100 mil per hour, then 800 mil = 8 hrs.

Theoretical: ~1 billion
If you can make 25 mil per hour, then 1 bill = 40 hrs.
If you can make 50 mil per hour, then 1 bill = 20 hrs.
If you can make 75 mil per hour, then 1 bill = 13.3 hrs.
If you can make 100 mil per hour, then 1 bill = 10 hrs.

Theoretical: ~1.5bill
If you can make 25 mil per hour, then 1.5 bill = 60 hrs.
If you can make 50 mil per hour, then 1.5 bill = 30 hrs.
If you can make 75 mil per hour, then 1.5 bill = 20 hrs.
If you can make 100 mil per hour, then 1.5 bill = 15 hrs.

This assumes:
* A single account is able to earn the amount of ISK.
* You can do everything within the alloted time (i.e.. at the end of X hours the ISK is in your wallet, not theorectical LP value, or the potential value of assets for sale).
* You have no other expenses of any kind.

Most importantly, it does not account for any game play time other than ISK earning activities. Every account over one obviously increases the time necessary to grind the ISK.

You can tell that most of the people in this thread are old school vets. It's only "easy" to make big ISK if you've got all the skills, tools, and accounts necessary to do so.

I challenge each of you to start a fresh 14-day trial (no Power of Two, no PLEX), andstart playing the game like a total noob. Don't transfer ISK or assets between characters. Don't help your new character out with your previously existing characters. Don't accept ISK or assets from existing friends/corpmates. Don't join your current corp. For bonus points, don't use special information/experience that you have access to for the purpose of playing the market. Play as a true noob.

When you have enough ISK to have a stable of ships for your tasks, plus some backups for PvP, and enough for PLEX, THEN tell everyone how "easy" it is.

step 1, join fw
step 2, put warp core stabs on

PLEX was a way for me to play the game for free. The current price is too high and i am not willing to spend all my time farming isk and therefore, I've unsubscribes my alt and this character will probably follow soon.

As soon as CCP figures out how to implement a ban on the multibox software hi-sec miners demand will go down and therefore PLEX will go down.

Just wait it out or sub an account and Plex the others...... game should be fun....not work.

don't worry, not all of us can make 27m per day. there's no shame in it.

game should be fun....not work.

Hey, zero fucks are being given over here... as far as eve goes, i can take it or leave it. I was merely saying that high plex prices have made me unsubscribe, with the assumption that other people will do the same.

If you are happy spending every day playing computer games, good for you.

the problem is, you're assuming people are going to unsub because they can't earn 27m per day. it's a trivially small sum.

PLEX was a way for me to play the game for free. The current price is too high and i am not willing to spend all my time farming isk and therefore, I've unsubscribes my alt and this character will probably follow soon.

plex is still trivially easy to afford and i sincerely doubt it'll result in many unsubs, let alone enough for ccp to even notice it as anything other than usual player turnover.

Now on this i disagree , i am seeing a lot of friends going from X accounts to just 1 or 2 accounts and once we get passed the mighty 1B mark i am expecting a big drop in active accounts.

Only time will tell .

With how EASY it is to make isk in the billions, I fully expect plex to hit 2bil in 3 months.

i'm sure it'll hit that much, but not that fast. i doubt ccp'd let it happen that fast.

There is no reason that they could intervene. I also have no idea how they would.

Isn't the market and setting prices yourself, emergent gameplay? market wars?

Now on this i disagree , i am seeing a lot of friends going from X accounts to just 1 or 2 accounts and once we get passed the mighty 1B mark i am expecting a big drop in active accounts.

Only time will tell .

Do you believe that you are a more accurate representation of the average player?

I don't even know why you're arguing with people. It's like a millionaire telling a trap on the street that he should just buy a house instead of living in that box.

Congratulations on being at the higher end of the food chain but all your statements don't change the fact that some people are being priced out of the plex market and as a result, some of those people choose to quit.

Do you believe that you are a more accurate representation of the average player?

I don't even know why you're arguing with people. It's like a millionaire telling a trap on the street that he should just buy a house instead of living in that box.

Congratulations on being at the higher end of the food chain but all your statements don't change the fact that some people are being priced out of the plex market and as a result, some of those people choose to quit.

according to eve-market's data, october 2011 was when it hit 400m/plex. (**** their graphs are horrible to get data from), it just hit 800 at the beginning of the week so that's july 2013. that's what, 32 months? that's only a 2.2% increase in plex prices every month.

There is no reason that they could intervene. I also have no idea how they would.

Isn't the market and setting prices yourself, emergent gameplay? market wars?

you and a small number of your friends isn't really a representative sample now is it? :P

i went from 3 accounts to 2 myself, about a year ago. in the month before odyssey (the last month my 3rd account was active) i earned enough cash to buy about 22 plex, at last week's prices. so in a month, i earned enough isk with 3 accounts to plex my remaining two, for almost a year (again, at today's prices). if i'd have been smart enough and dumped the isk in to plex once odyssey hit then i'd probably still be living on plexed accounts with change left over.

me dropping an account had nothing to do with plex prices, i simply ran out of useful things to do with a third account. like i say, those caught up in the "waaaa plex are too expensive", i don't think, will even be noticed in the tide of natural player turnover.

i really can't help but feel the "i'll unsub all of my accounts because plex is over x price" has as much substance as "gankers drive away new players", just sounds like the same **** with a different coloured bow.

I'm just not entirely sure what all the "waaah, i'm going to unsub an alt" posts are trying to achieve.

PLEX nearing 900m--thoughts?

The problem is you keep looking at it from a point of 'Can you achieve X amount in X time' but at a certain point it is a matter of 'Is it worth to achieve X amount in x time ' wich is completely different and i feel that the 1 B mark will be the point where to a lot of people it just is not worth it.

I could sub all my 5 accounts with ease for years and years to come on plex , but i don' t feel it is worth it and as such am working with 2 accounts now.At a certain point people who have a lot less in their wallet will feel this way about their 2nd and in some cases their only account.

At least that is my assumption and as said only time will tell.

3) The decision (imo bad) to water down EvE expansions. With that way, EvE becomes a dull, very slow progress change game. 2 expansions a year - expecially 2 "flashy" ones, give much more OOMPH to subs. Sure, they spike and then fade throughout the year, but with no OOMPH all we'll see is a slow hemorragy of people who get bored seeing "little changes, so little we don't feel them".

...
PLEX is a thermometer of what's going on. If supply stops, it's because there's less "game drivers" willing to invest in EvE than before. There's less motivation to pay with cash and this happens when statistically there's a perception of the game being less worth paying for than before.

Anyone who wants to read in what I have written, feel free to.

In less than 24 hours, the price has fallen by as much as 60 million ISK and is now down to 780mil ISK in Dodixie.

Do you guys think this is CCP intervening?

In less than 24 hours, the price has fallen by as much as 60 million ISK and is now down to 780mil ISK in Dodixie.

Do you guys think this is CCP intervening?

Do you guys think this is CCP intervening?

Not sure this has been said yet but I'm too lazy to read the entire thread.

Plex 450 mil when Ice was an infinite resource. Amarr isotopes were 300k roughly.

SuperNerf Ice....


Result


Plex 800 mil and amarr isotopes at 700k roughly.


Basically CCP underestimated the effects of killing off hi-sec ice mining and the only fix is to make the ice fields in hi-sec bigger or just return ice back to the way it was.

PLEX prices are a merely a symptom of the real problem and I expect PLEX to be at or near 1 bil this time next month unless CCP intervenes.

Why CCP killed the game's only infinite resource is beyond me....but it is what it is.

Not sure this has been said yet but I'm too lazy to read the entire thread.

Plex 450 mil when Ice was an infinite resource. Amarr isotopes were 300k roughly.

SuperNerf Ice....


Result


Plex 800 mil and amarr isotopes at 700k roughly.


Basically CCP underestimated the effects of killing off hi-sec ice mining and the only fix is to make the ice fields in hi-sec bigger or just return ice back to the way it was.

PLEX prices are a merely a symptom of the real problem and I expect PLEX to be at or near 1 bil this time next month unless CCP intervenes.

Why CCP killed the game's only infinite resource is beyond me....but it is what it is.

What's the connection here? And what is the real problem according to you?

Its not the 500m+ its the 10m margin. Flipping battleships nets roughly the same margin and are sub-200m.

It's not the turnover p/u, it's the daily traded volume.

Volume x Margin / Competition = Goodness to Trade Index

I am asking this honestly as someone still pretty new to the game. I am just under 3m skillpoints, have moved to null and finally see how much ISK I can make per hour. That being said, I am not sure why anyone would ever grind for ISK to buy plex in game. The math doesn't add up to me. I consider 'grinding' anything I don't enjoy actively doing. Ratting/mining/etc. is a grind, but so is working landscaping IRL on a saturday.

If I grind in game, I can earn a plex in about 10 hours of work (around 70 mil ISK/hour).

If I take a job doing landscaping for a neighbor, I can earn a plex in about two hours work ($10/hour).

Why would I ever grind in game if I can earn my monthly plex in a fraction of the time outside the game? It isn't like anyone actually enjoys hours of grinding out the ISK needed to pay for it, do they?

According to my Aztec calendar, we are entering a Quetzalcoatl period so in order for this to be real we are going to need to sacrifice a goat.

Your question was asked by a lot of people before and your conclusion is so true. Why do they do this? I don't really know ... stupidity?

According to my Aztec calendar, we are entering a Quetzalcoatl period so in order for this to be real we are going to need to sacrifice a goat.

The only one sacrificing goats on this forum is me. So please refrain from doing it yourself as that may lead to a shortage in goats the forum gods would not be happy about...

That said, I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them.
The Rules:
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.

The only one sacrificing goats on this forum is me. So please refrain from doing it yourself as that may lead to a shortage in goats the forum gods would not be happy about...

That said, I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them.
The Rules:
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.

Please provide video evidence of your goat disposal services.

is the goat sacrificial podium gonna need a medium or a low slot?

Sacrificial podiums are, quite obviously, high slots.

Extreme outliers get removed, it'll be gone by next downtime.

Well if people would stop buying a PLEX for 7.9B isk, like someone did today in JITA maybe the price would go down. That transaction is gonna #&%@ up the average.

No, please read my post above, it describes what *should* happen if markets in EvE are still "realistic".

Price is nearing a strong resistance (a trend line). If it closes below by end of July then price can follow its natural course and create a "breath" swing.

Long term we are in a multi-year (rare) pattern called "Gramophone", with the obvious future consequences on price. IF EvE markets are still "realistic" that is. Time will tell.

I am asking this honestly as someone still pretty new to the game. I am just under 3m skillpoints, have moved to null and finally see how much ISK I can make per hour. That being said, I am not sure why anyone would ever grind for ISK to buy plex in game. The math doesn't add up to me. I consider 'grinding' anything I don't enjoy actively doing. Ratting/mining/etc. is a grind, but so is working landscaping IRL on a saturday.

If I grind in game, I can earn a plex in about 10 hours of work (around 70 mil ISK/hour).

If I take a job doing landscaping for a neighbor, I can earn a plex in about two hours work ($10/hour).

Why would I ever grind in game if I can earn my monthly plex in a fraction of the time outside the game? It isn't like anyone actually enjoys hours of grinding out the ISK needed to pay for it, do they?

For many players, ISK making activities are not grinding, but an enjoyable part of the game. It's like knitting, or solitaire, or fishing, or golf. A simple repetitive task that keeps your mind somewhat occupied while you watch TV, or chat with friends.