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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 22 post(s) |
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CCP Phantom
C C P C C P Alliance
4493
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Posted - 2014.07.10 15:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
Third party tools play an important role in providing a customized easy access to all the information YOU want to see and need. Regardless if you have full fledged applications written by our fantastic third party developers in the EVE community or if you just created your own little spreadsheet - these tools are invaluable and extremely helpful.
With Crius we will see a large changes in Industry - this includes both static information (for example blueprint stats) as well as dynamic information. To give you time to prepare your tools and third party applications for the Crius release, new Static Data Export (SDE), API updates and additional CREST endpoints are available.
Please read all about Industry and 3rd Party development support in CCP Nullarbor's latest dev blog Industry & 3rd Party Developers! CCP Phantom - Senior Community Representative - Volunteer Manager |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
749
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Posted - 2014.07.10 15:54:00 -
[2] - Quote
Any questions about the math / endpoints, let us know in this thread. CCP Nullarbor //-áExotic Dancer-á// DEVGIFS |
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
3518
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Posted - 2014.07.10 15:56:00 -
[3] - Quote
\o/
I'll get a conversion up and running shortly.
If you have a database you want to load the blueprint yaml into, in the same format I'll be using:
https://github.com/fuzzysteve/yamlloader/blob/master/blueprints/blueprintLoader.php Woo! CSM 9! http://fuzzwork.enterprises/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
MailDeadDrop
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
354
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Posted - 2014.07.10 16:00:00 -
[4] - Quote
Quote:6. If installing at a POS with multiple structures of the same type, multiply the cost by the starbaseModifier value from the /corp/Facilities.xml.aspx end point Didn't Greyscale say this was cut?
MDD |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
684
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Posted - 2014.07.10 16:02:00 -
[5] - Quote
Thank you for spelling out the industry costs algorithm in this dev blog. It saves quite a bit of time trying to piece it together from the relevant forum threads. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
749
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Posted - 2014.07.10 16:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
Thanks for the reminder, blog updated. CCP Nullarbor //-áExotic Dancer-á// DEVGIFS |
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Two step
Aperture Harmonics No Holes Barred
4697
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Posted - 2014.07.10 16:06:00 -
[7] - Quote
Nit: You talk about the basePrice, but then use baseCost in your formulas.. :P You also still talk about the multiple POS array thing, which I think is now gone, right?
Also, given the mention of team in w-space, can I actually recruit teams for a w-space system? CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
749
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Posted - 2014.07.10 16:13:00 -
[8] - Quote
Two step wrote:Nit: You talk about the basePrice, but then use baseCost in your formulas.. :P You also still talk about the multiple POS array thing, which I think is now gone, right?
Also, given the mention of team in w-space, can I actually recruit teams for a w-space system?
Good point thanks, I have corrected the terminology.
Yes teams can be recruited into wormholes. CCP Nullarbor //-áExotic Dancer-á// DEVGIFS |
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MailDeadDrop
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
354
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Posted - 2014.07.10 16:26:00 -
[9] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Two step wrote:Nit: You talk about the basePrice, but then use baseCost in your formulas.. :P Good point thanks, I have corrected the terminology. Just for general education: "price" is the value proposed for an item, sometimes further subdivided into "ask price" (or simply "ask") for the price proposed by a seller and "bid price" (or simply "bid") for the price proposed by a buyer. And "cost" is the actual value exchanged for a completed transaction (i.e after the sale is complete). This is why we have Cost Of Goods Sold ("COGS") -- because for the stuff that we are selling or have sold, we *know* how much we already paid for the input materials.
MDD |
Sir SmashAlot
The League of Extraordinary Opportunists Intergalactic Conservation Movement
126
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Posted - 2014.07.10 16:28:00 -
[10] - Quote
I am looking forward to some high quality spreadsheet **** this summer! |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
12187
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Posted - 2014.07.10 16:29:00 -
[11] - Quote
Future development looks bright!
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Tzar Sinak
Mythic Heights
108
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Posted - 2014.07.10 16:46:00 -
[12] - Quote
I have been asking this because there is no specific mention of it: Do NPC Corps standings play any part of the manufacturing costs? If yes, we are still tied to the standings grind to minimize costs. If no, we are freed to travel anywhere to use any NPC station because of an across the board equality between NPC corps.
Thanks for the hard work guys. |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
749
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Posted - 2014.07.10 16:54:00 -
[13] - Quote
Tzar Sinak wrote:I have been asking this because there is no specific mention of it: Do NPC Corps standings play any part of the manufacturing costs? If yes, we are still tied to the standings grind to minimize costs. If no, we are freed to travel anywhere to use any NPC station because of an across the board equality between NPC corps.
Thanks for the hard work guys.
Standings play no part in new industry cost scaling. CCP Nullarbor //-áExotic Dancer-á// DEVGIFS |
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Denidil
The Scope Gallente Federation
631
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Posted - 2014.07.10 17:51:00 -
[14] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Any questions about the math / endpoints, let us know in this thread.
Will the personal inventory API endpoint show Time and Material reserach levels on blueprints? Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design. |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
749
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Posted - 2014.07.10 18:24:00 -
[15] - Quote
Denidil wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:Any questions about the math / endpoints, let us know in this thread. Will the personal inventory API endpoint show Time and Material reserach levels on blueprints?
We are going to add a special blueprints API to show this, sometime after FoxFour gets back from vacation. CCP Nullarbor //-áExotic Dancer-á// DEVGIFS |
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
3520
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Posted - 2014.07.10 18:42:00 -
[16] - Quote
mysql https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/dump/crius-beta3/crius-beta3.sql.bz2
sqlite: https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/dump/crius-beta3/eve.db.bz2
csv/xls + sql files https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/dump/crius-beta3/
postgres: https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/dump/crius-beta3/postgres-criusbeta3.sql.bz2
you'll find the new industry details in the industryActivity tables. (6 thereof) Activitytypeid is the activityid from ramActivities table. Woo! CSM 9! http://fuzzwork.enterprises/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Denidil
The Scope Gallente Federation
632
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Posted - 2014.07.10 19:03:00 -
[17] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Denidil wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:Any questions about the math / endpoints, let us know in this thread. Will the personal inventory API endpoint show Time and Material reserach levels on blueprints? We are going to add a special blueprints API to show this, sometime after FoxFour gets back from vacation.
Awesome! That will be a major major major plus for stuff like EveHQ Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design. |
Zifrian
Licentia Ex Vereor Black Core Alliance
1514
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Posted - 2014.07.10 20:20:00 -
[18] - Quote
Querns wrote:Thank you for spelling out the industry costs algorithm in this dev blog. It saves quite a bit of time trying to piece it together from the relevant forum threads. Yes, yes!
Thank you so much for this blog. This is fantastic! GÇ£Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain - and most fools do. GÇ¥ - Dale Carnegie
Maximze your Industry Potential! - Download EVE Isk per Hour! |
Winter Archipelago
Catastrophic Overview Failure Brave Collective
263
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Posted - 2014.07.10 20:51:00 -
[19] - Quote
Any chance office prices are going to become available in the API? NPC station office prices are going to have just as much an impact on the shift in industry as the changes to activity and availability. Ransoms are accepted in Isk, Ships, Mods, and Dolls. |
Cyno Saraki
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2014.07.10 21:49:00 -
[20] - Quote
HOLY ****...
Install cost for ME 10 research is like 28 * base cost. |
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Skalle Pande
Teknisk Forlag
73
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Posted - 2014.07.10 22:42:00 -
[21] - Quote
Quote:Research Multipliers Level Multiplier 1 1 2 29 / 21.0 3 23 / 7.0 4 39 / 5.0 5 278 / 15.0 6 928 / 21.0 7 2200 / 21.0 8 5251 / 21.0 9 4163 / 7.0 10 29660 / 21.0
Maybe a silly question but: Is this to be read as fractions? That is, the multiplier at level 10 is 1412.38095238095....? Not 1400, 1412 or 1412.381 but the full ****? Now, that is what I call finetuning on a truly scientific scale Or does the number after the slash have a different meaning? |
Sir HyperChrist
Persnickety Pilots
53
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Posted - 2014.07.10 23:39:00 -
[22] - Quote
Skalle Pande wrote:Quote:Research Multipliers Level Multiplier 1 1 2 29 / 21.0 3 23 / 7.0 4 39 / 5.0 5 278 / 15.0 6 928 / 21.0 7 2200 / 21.0 8 5251 / 21.0 9 4163 / 7.0 10 29660 / 21.0
Maybe a silly question but: Is this to be read as fractions? That is, the multiplier at level 10 is 1412.38095 238095....? Not 1400, 1412 or 1412.381 but the full ****? Now, that is what I call finetuning on a truly scientific scale Or does the number after the slash have a different meaning?
That table got my attention too :) I quess it's fractionals. Except for the second all ratios (of one level and the level before it) are about 32^(1/4), It looks like a similar progression as skillpoints, except in 10 levels, not 5. Iirc something like that was mentioned in the devblogs.
I could calculate new "earnback times" for Material research costs, as each level saves 1% extra, the first level "costs" 2% of an item's base price, it takes 2 items to earn the investment back. The total list is: lvl1: 2 lvl2: 3 lvl3: 7 lvl4: 16 lvl5: 37 lvl6: 88 lvl7: 210 lvl8: 500 lvl9: 1189 lvl10: 2825
Components are usually built in 1000+ quantities, so that research pays back. Not so sure about battleships though :)
Could someone update the eve wiki on numbers like these? |
asteroidjas
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services The Possum Lodge
81
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Posted - 2014.07.11 01:28:00 -
[23] - Quote
With this new reliance on the very inaccurate UI "Estimated Value" number, can you please, please, please use better methods to determine this figure.
There is already data that is used to make a much more accurate picture of the price of an item. The daily average tickers. Calculated EACH DAY. Just grab that from the major trade hubs and average them together. Again, this figure is already calculated in every region, on a daily basis. How is it that hard to use it for the "estimated value"?
Atm, the "Estimated Value" of an item will be very missleading as to whether or not something is worth building. This will also help alleviate 'value' issues for new items that sometimes go a couple weeks before the game says they are worth anything. |
Skalle Pande
Teknisk Forlag
73
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Posted - 2014.07.11 10:18:00 -
[24] - Quote
Sir HyperChrist wrote: That table got my attention too :) I quess it's fractionals. Except for the second all ratios (of one level and the level before it) are about 32^(1/4), It looks like a similar progression as skillpoints, except in 10 levels, not 5. Iirc something like that was mentioned in the devblogs.
Yeah, it looks likely. But heck, if this is meant to be an exponential function, why then calculate it as fractions? And anyway, why calculate it at all, instead of using a fixed figure? In fact an integer would surely suffice, as the multiplier is applied to something (baseCost) which will vary with at least some percentage points on a monthly timescale. |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
755
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Posted - 2014.07.11 10:24:00 -
[25] - Quote
asteroidjas wrote:With this new reliance on the very inaccurate UI "Estimated Value" number, can you please, please, please use better methods to determine this figure.
There is already data that is used to make a much more accurate picture of the price of an item. The daily average tickers. Calculated EACH DAY. Just grab that from the major trade hubs and average them together. Again, this figure is already calculated in every region, on a daily basis. How is it that hard to use it for the "estimated value"?
Atm, the "Estimated Value" of an item will be very missleading as to whether or not something is worth building. This will also help alleviate 'value' issues for new items that sometimes go a couple weeks before the game says they are worth anything.
You should be using the adjustedPrice from the /market/prices/ endpoint which is both not as volatile as the average price shown in the inventory UI and less manipulatable by payers.
It is also really important to realize that having accurate values for the base price does not actually matter in the grand scheme of things, we only need this value to be correct within an order of magnitude and for it to rise and fall gradually with shifting markets. CCP Nullarbor //-áExotic Dancer-á// DEVGIFS |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
755
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Posted - 2014.07.11 10:28:00 -
[26] - Quote
Skalle Pande wrote:Sir HyperChrist wrote: That table got my attention too :) I quess it's fractionals. Except for the second all ratios (of one level and the level before it) are about 32^(1/4), It looks like a similar progression as skillpoints, except in 10 levels, not 5. Iirc something like that was mentioned in the devblogs.
Yeah, it looks likely. But heck, if this is meant to be an exponential function, why then calculate it as fractions? And anyway, why calculate it at all, instead of using a fixed figure? In fact an integer would surely suffice, as the multiplier is applied to something (baseCost) which will vary with at least some percentage points on a monthly timescale.
Yes they are fractions, and the values are based on a curve which fits to nice intervals for the amount of time required to research up to each level, similar to skill training:
Rank 1 Item Seconds
- 105
- 250
- 595
- 1414
- 3360
- 8000
- 19000
- 45255
- 107700
- 256000
Rank 4 Item Seconds
- 420
- 1000
- 2380
- 5656
- 13440
- 32000
- 76000
- 181020
- 430800
- 1024000
CCP Nullarbor //-áExotic Dancer-á// DEVGIFS |
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Sir HyperChrist
Persnickety Pilots
53
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Posted - 2014.07.11 10:44:00 -
[27] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Skalle Pande wrote:Sir HyperChrist wrote: That table got my attention too :) I quess it's fractionals. Except for the second all ratios (of one level and the level before it) are about 32^(1/4), It looks like a similar progression as skillpoints, except in 10 levels, not 5. Iirc something like that was mentioned in the devblogs.
Yeah, it looks likely. But heck, if this is meant to be an exponential function, why then calculate it as fractions? And anyway, why calculate it at all, instead of using a fixed figure? In fact an integer would surely suffice, as the multiplier is applied to something (baseCost) which will vary with at least some percentage points on a monthly timescale. Yes they are fractions, and the values are based on a curve which fits to nice intervals for the amount of time required to research up to each level, similar to skill training: Rank 1 Item Seconds
- 105
- 250
- 595
- 1414
- 3360
- 8000
- 19000
- 45255
- 107700
- 256000
...
And those numbers are based on arbitrarily rounded results of the function: 250*32^(n/4), with n from -1 to +8.
Why you are rounding them though, I don't understand. It doesn't make it any more transparent, easier to understand. Also the rounding is really arbitrarily: 45255 is actually rounded best, 19000 differs quite a bit from 19027. Why don't you fix this list to actually have some base?
-SHC
-edit, might it be that current devs don't understand the basis of the original skillpoint numbers anymore? |
Aineko Macx
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
298
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Posted - 2014.07.12 09:56:00 -
[28] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:SDE conversions Thx Steve, again you bring light and order into this mess.
Before I begin any development on it, are you somewhat sure you'll keep the proposed scheme for the industry tables?
Some notes: - Column 'typeid' in industryActivitySkills should be 'typeID' for consistency - If you have composite indices over (typeID, activityTypeID), another simple index over typeID is redundant. The only use I could see is for implementing foreign keys, which is pointless for this static data. iveeCore - PHP library for calculations of industrial activities |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
3534
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Posted - 2014.07.12 16:49:00 -
[29] - Quote
Aineko Macx wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:SDE conversions Thx Steve, again you bring light and order into this mess. Before I begin any development on it, are you somewhat sure you'll keep the proposed scheme for the industry tables? Some notes: - Column 'typeid' in industryActivitySkills should be 'typeID' for consistency - If you have composite indices over (typeID, activityTypeID), another simple index over typeID is redundant. The only use I could see is for implementing foreign keys, which is pointless for this static data.
I've had people talking to me about this.
There will almost certainly be tweaks, but only to column names. The other structure should be static.
activityTypeID will become activityID typeID will become blueprintTypeID (to make it obvious.
All names will become properly camel case (and ID will remain ID, rather than Id)
The single column index isn't entirely redundant. But you make a reasonable point. Woo! CSM 9! http://fuzzwork.enterprises/
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Zifrian
Licentia Ex Vereor Black Core Alliance
1515
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Posted - 2014.07.13 23:02:00 -
[30] - Quote
After getting the new blueprint data loaded, I noticed there is no longer a techLevel field for blueprints (I can get all other fields of the old invBlueprintTypes table). This value usually signaled 1,2, or 3. I've been looking at the dgmtypeAttributes table (attribute 633) for the meta value but this really isn't the same information since it's the meta level of the item but not the blueprint.
Any way to get this data in the current SDE or is this an oversight?
Thanks GÇ£Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain - and most fools do. GÇ¥ - Dale Carnegie
Maximze your Industry Potential! - Download EVE Isk per Hour! |
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