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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Yarrmageddon
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Posted - 2006.06.30 19:49:00 -
[31]
Now people will have to grow a brain and get an escort when they're moving a fortune 
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Reatu Krentor
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Posted - 2006.06.30 19:49:00 -
[32]
I'm just worried about the ships. someone moving a lot of ships could be considered griefing(isn't there something like that?)
Shouldn't ships rather be destroyed when they're being hauled(they're not assembled after all)? Just can imagine a freighter popping and out comes a freighter load of frigs and cruisers  .
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"I wish CONCORD would scream "No-one expects the Spanish Inquisition" when they turn up to blob you.  " -_ Twilight Moon |
Rasitiln
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Posted - 2006.06.30 19:50:00 -
[33]
hell yeah 
/me goes off to get a new pair of pants
Want to be a pirate? Join Sniggwaffe |
Miner Bob
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Posted - 2006.06.30 19:54:00 -
[34]
How many suicide bs would it take to take down a freighter?
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Vincent Gaines
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Posted - 2006.06.30 19:54:00 -
[35]
in fact, what can an escort do against suicide ravens?
nothing.
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Tessa Vaako
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Posted - 2006.06.30 19:55:00 -
[36]
 Originally by: Vincent Gaines
Edited by: Vincent Gaines on 30/06/2006 19:49:40
Originally by: Tessa Vaako
Originally by: Vincent Gaines
oh yay, so now we can haul in something that still can't do squat for a POS, but can now drop cans.
all from a ship with no way to fight back or run at all.
i'm not trolling....I'm serious. Now freighters get to fear suicide raven squads.
Um, fly with an escort?
sure...why not. I'm sure a squad of 5 or so would love to escort a freighter making a 30 jump run through empire.
sounds like FUN!
Ars Caelestis recently did a 22 jump freighter operation in under 90 minutes. And that includes the time it took to bust up a gate camp. I'm sorry, what's the problem again?
--
The Future is Exciting.
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Leandro Salazar
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Posted - 2006.06.30 19:56:00 -
[37]
This must be the companion fix to the ice belt depletion thingy, so lag in Jita doesn't lessen. Replace ice-mining barges with gate-camping Raven+Badger fleets...
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ZOMG my sig was concordokkened!
Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
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Matthew
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Posted - 2006.06.30 19:57:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Vincent Gaines
Edited by: Vincent Gaines on 30/06/2006 19:49:40
Originally by: Tessa Vaako
Originally by: Vincent Gaines
oh yay, so now we can haul in something that still can't do squat for a POS, but can now drop cans.
all from a ship with no way to fight back or run at all.
i'm not trolling....I'm serious. Now freighters get to fear suicide raven squads.
Um, fly with an escort?
sure...why not. I'm sure a squad of 5 or so would love to escort a freighter making a 30 jump run through empire.
sounds like FUN!
I'm sure it would still be far quicker moving large quantities of cargo like that than with 6 people running in indys.
Freighters were never really designed to be AFK solo ships, the intention was always for them to operate at the group level of the game in the same way dreads are fairly easily pwned by a group of BS when solo.
-------
There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines. |
Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.06.30 19:58:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 30/06/2006 20:01:17
Originally by: Yarrmageddon
Now people will have to grow a brain and get an escort when they're moving a fortune
I think alts will be better. Use one to scout ahead. Dont go to gates where 20 battleships are sitting. If they have to warp in to gank the hauler, it will take some time and will make coordinating the attack a little harder.
Even if they have escorts of 5-6 battleships, they wont be able to stop the attack on the freighter since everybody is suiciding anyway. Also, the lag will make the battle almost unplayable.
Even if the escort would try to target jam the ships to prevent damage (before they fire off their alpha-strikes), concord would attack them and kill them.
---
The Eve Wiki Community Portal | Eve Tribune |
Vincent Gaines
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Posted - 2006.06.30 19:59:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Tessa Vaako
Ars Caelestis recently did a 22 jump freighter operation in under 90 minutes. And that includes the time it took to bust up a gate camp. I'm sorry, what's the problem again?
so let's say you do 2 runs. that's 6 hours.
or maybe you just go out and back... that's 3 hours.
do that daily, I'm sure there corpmates will be fighting thier way to sign up for escort duty. It's time well spent. 
If you're going ot make it more lucrative to nail freighters, then give the big lugs some slots to help them out.
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Jinx Barker
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Posted - 2006.06.30 20:00:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
I think it just became worth suiciding 20 battleships in Jita.
It will improve the economy! And, will probably make allot of people upset in the process, I am gonna go wash my pants out.
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Kaaii
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Posted - 2006.06.30 20:00:00 -
[42]
Ive thought it over and i see what this is leading up to...
Since the freighter containment field is been improved, freigthers will now be able to SCOOP and JETTISON cans at will..
After all, whats good for the goose.......
"..Id rather fall beside 10 lions, than stand with One thousand sheep.."
Tradeing 101 |
Rasitiln
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Posted - 2006.06.30 20:01:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Rasitiln on 30/06/2006 20:01:26
Originally by: Vincent Gaines
Originally by: Tessa Vaako
Ars Caelestis recently did a 22 jump freighter operation in under 90 minutes. And that includes the time it took to bust up a gate camp. I'm sorry, what's the problem again?
so let's say you do 2 runs. that's 6 hours.
or maybe you just go out and back... that's 3 hours.
do that daily, I'm sure there corpmates will be fighting thier way to sign up for escort duty. It's time well spent.
If you're going ot make it more lucrative to nail freighters, then give the big lugs some slots to help them out.
stop your whineing when we did the risk operation we escourted 7 freighters up and down a 40 jump trip through 0.0 in battleships including a 7 minute warp through 9-266q several times. Ya a 7 minute warp in a freighter. So suck it up and deal with it. The fact freighters didnt drop cans to start with was a bug. Tomb even said so
Want to be a pirate? Join Sniggwaffe |
Matthew
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Posted - 2006.06.30 20:01:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Vincent Gaines
in fact, what can an escort do against suicide ravens?
nothing.
2 things they can do:
Scout, so that the freighter never warps into the gank squad in the first place. A group of ravens large enough to suicide gank a freighter is going to stand out sitting at a gate waiting for a target.
Remote Repair. Sure, it'll take some timing, but it can be done.
-------
There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines. |
Vincent Gaines
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Posted - 2006.06.30 20:01:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Matthew
I'm sure it would still be far quicker moving large quantities of cargo like that than with 6 people running in indys.
Freighters were never really designed to be AFK solo ships, the intention was always for them to operate at the group level of the game in the same way dreads are fairly easily pwned by a group of BS when solo.
a convoy of 6 indys in Jita, or anywhere around. That'll be even more fun. So now you have 6 ships, and they're all transports being escorted (right?). so what was once a 1-2 man operation is now a 10 man operation.
this does nothing to help smaller corps.
becoming a pirate is looking more and more tempting.
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Vincent Gaines
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Posted - 2006.06.30 20:02:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 30/06/2006 20:01:17
Originally by: Yarrmageddon
Now people will have to grow a brain and get an escort when they're moving a fortune
I think alts will be better. Use one to scout ahead. Dont go to gates where 20 battleships are sitting. If they have to warp in to gank the hauler, it will take some time and will make coordinating the attack a little harder.
Even if they have escorts of 5-6 battleships, they wont be able to stop the attack on the freighter since everybody is suiciding anyway. Also, the lag will make the battle almost unplayable.
Even if the escort would try to target jam the ships to prevent damage (before they fire off their alpha-strikes), concord would attack them and kill them.
login traps are not an exploit.
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Vincent Gaines
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Posted - 2006.06.30 20:03:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Vincent Gaines on 30/06/2006 20:04:57
Originally by: Rasitiln
stop your whineing when we did the risk operation we escourted 7 freighters up and down a 40 jump trip through 0.0 in battleships including a 7 minute warp through 9-266q several times. Ya a 7 minute warp in a freighter. So suck it up and deal with it. The fact freighters didnt drop cans to start with was a bug. Tomb even said so
I guess it's only whining when it affects you for the better?
edit:
but hey, whatever. there'll be lots of pretty lights in Jita.
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Rasitiln
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Posted - 2006.06.30 20:05:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Vincent Gaines
Originally by: Rasitiln
stop your whineing when we did the risk operation we escourted 7 freighters up and down a 40 jump trip through 0.0 in battleships including a 7 minute warp through 9-266q several times. Ya a 7 minute warp in a freighter. So suck it up and deal with it. The fact freighters didnt drop cans to start with was a bug. Tomb even said so
I guess it's only whining when it affects you for the better?
Ive got a frieghter as well so deal with it
Want to be a pirate? Join Sniggwaffe |
Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.06.30 20:05:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Vincent Gaines
login traps are not an exploit.
I think you just found the best way tbh. 
---
The Eve Wiki Community Portal | Eve Tribune |
Tessa Vaako
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Posted - 2006.06.30 20:15:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Vincent Gaines
If you're going ot make it more lucrative to nail freighters, then give the big lugs some slots to help them out.
I challenge the lucrativeness of it.
Ok, some rough numbers according to Quickfit:
An unskilled Obelisk has 5300 shields, 22500 armour and 120,000 structure.
Using suiciding max skilled Torp Ravens with a full rack of BCUIIs and T2 Siege launchers:
1 volley of Bane Mjolnir removes the shields
4 volleys of Bane Rage removes the armour
22 volleys of Bane (whatever) pops the freighter.
With a 7 second cycle time on the torps, I'll assume that each raven only gets one volley at a freighter before it gets ganked by CONCORD. That means an attacking corp will need to go through TWENTY SEVEN T2 fitted ravens for EACH freighter.
There had better be something REALLY worth it.
--
The Future is Exciting.
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FalconHawk
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Posted - 2006.06.30 20:19:00 -
[51]
how about you give freighters some slots then? would be nice to have a repair and maybe some resistance upgrades ...
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Rasitiln
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Posted - 2006.06.30 20:19:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Tessa Vaako
Originally by: Vincent Gaines
If you're going ot make it more lucrative to nail freighters, then give the big lugs some slots to help them out.
I challenge the lucrativeness of it.
Ok, some rough numbers according to Quickfit:
An unskilled Obelisk has 5300 shields, 22500 armour and 120,000 structure.
Using suiciding max skilled Torp Ravens with a full rack of BCUIIs and T2 Siege launchers:
1 volley of Bane Mjolnir removes the shields
4 volleys of Bane Rage removes the armour
22 volleys of Bane (whatever) pops the freighter.
With a 7 second cycle time on the torps, I'll assume that each raven only gets one volley at a freighter before it gets ganked by CONCORD. That means an attacking corp will need to go through TWENTY SEVEN T2 fitted ravens for EACH freighter.
There had better be something REALLY worth it.
finally someone does the math whats the number after skills are applied to the freighter 
Want to be a pirate? Join Sniggwaffe |
Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.06.30 20:22:00 -
[53]
Im not so sure about concord stopping 20 ships from firing more than 1 volley.... but who knows....
---
The Eve Wiki Community Portal | Eve Tribune |
Satomila Kunis
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Posted - 2006.06.30 20:34:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Kaaii
Ive thought it over and i see what this is leading up to...
Since the freighter containment field is been improved, freigthers will now be able to SCOOP and JETTISON cans at will..
After all, whats good for the goose.......
That can't happen as it would help the macro-miners too much. Now if the cans dropped are GFCs and can only be scooped and not opened in space... That'd be something.
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Vlad
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Posted - 2006.06.30 20:42:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Vlad on 30/06/2006 20:46:39
Raven's will get off at least two vollies before being destroyed even in 1.0 (takes around 30 to 35 seconds for concord to respond and take out a tech 1 equiped raven in 1.0)
Talk about seriously ending the game for the smaller groups/corps who operate in empire :(
- Ganking in empire is far too easy
- It costs the pirates far too little with too high a reward
Adding Frieghters to the list of viable targets in empire is in my opionion a very bad idea, at least when they didn't leave loot it made it pointless to blow them up unless it was personal.
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elFarto
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Posted - 2006.06.30 20:46:00 -
[56]
Quote:
Serenity Search, Salvage and Storage
So, who here got the reference...?
Regards
elFarto
npc.elfarto.com > Ingame NPC database
Mal: If anyone gets nosy, you know, justą shoot 'em.
Zoe: Shoot 'em?
Mal: Politely. |
Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.06.30 20:48:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Vlad
Edited by: Vlad on 30/06/2006 20:46:39
Raven's will get off at least two vollies before being destroyed even in 1.0 (takes around 30 to 35 seconds for concord to respond and take out a tech 1 equiped raven in 1.0)
Talk about seriously ending the game for the smaller groups/corps who operate in empire :(
- Ganking in empire is far too easy
- It costs the pirates far too little with too high a reward
Adding Frieghters to the list of viable targets in empire is in my opionion a very bad idea, at least when they didn't leave loot it made it pointless to blow them up unless it was personal.
Also if the pirates have the bpo for the ships, it will be cheap gankage.
---
The Eve Wiki Community Portal | Eve Tribune |
Victor Valka
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Posted - 2006.06.30 20:58:00 -
[58]
Kaaii:
Your signature link is misspelled.
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Tessa Vaako
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Posted - 2006.06.30 21:04:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Tessa Vaako on 30/06/2006 21:06:44
Originally by: FalconHawk
20 ships .... 20*30mil insurance = 600mil
wondering how many freighters haul stuff for far more than that, but i guess there are a lot 
Seeing as how I'm playing with numbers anyways,
According to Eve-Central, the average price of a Raven is about 100 mil ISK.
Siege Launcher IIs are goign for about 6 mil each.
BCUIIs are going for about 7 mil each.
In order to pull this off you'd need a initial investment of
30x 100mil + (30x((6 SLII x 6mil) + (6 BCUII x 7mil))) + (30x 32.625mil insurance) = 6.3 BILLION ISK initial investment.
Assuming you lose half of the mods to being blown up, your fleets "net worth" afterwards is:
30x 108.750mil + (30x((3 SLII x 6mil) + (3 BCUII x 7mil))) = 4.4 billion ISK.
This means you've got to get a two billion ISK haul just to break even.
EDIT:
Quote:
Raven's will get off at least two vollies before being destroyed even in 1.0
Didn't see that.
Bah there goes a swack of number crunching. 
--
The Future is Exciting.
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Eilene Fernite
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Posted - 2006.06.30 21:13:00 -
[60]
We'll have to wait and see how many freighters will be suicide ganked after this change, but this change makes pretty much nullifies the only decent defense a freighter has against suicide ganks.
Escort? Not much use in empire against a ganksquad that isn't counting on lasting just long enough to get off one volley.
Instajumps? Nice for when the ganksquad is on the outgoing gate, but if you jump into one, there's not much point. You won't align fast enough to get away.
So what's left? Using a scout and just logging off if there's any threat.
I'm all for the idea of nowhere is safe, but not if there's no way to face a threat. Freighters are designed to haul large quantities of stuff around. Escorting one through 0.0 and low sec is a drag, but at least there's a point to it. If there's a threat, you can stand up to it and clear it, so your freighter can go through. That's however not something you can do in high sec, because a ganksquad setup to kill a freighter before Concord gets to them, is only avoidable by logging off/sitting in a safespot until they go away of their own free will.
Want to fly a freighter and be safe? Use an escort and stick to 0.0 and low sec, or stay in high sec and log off at any sign of a bunch of battleships near a gate. There's something definately wrong with that.
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