Originally by: Dark Shikari

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As of Tuesday, the number of freighter ransoms will probably decline.

And by decline, I mean crash.

And by crash, I mean "zero."

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Originally by: Orchyre

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Edited by: Orchyre on 30/06/2006 18:42:00
Several pirate corporations need a new pair of pants.

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Originally by: news item

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hauling corporations are heralding this as a major improvement to their profit margin.

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Originally by: Virtuozzo

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Kieron > don't get this the wrong way but are you going mad? There's heaps of other stuff to fix and put in game that was forgotten ...

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Originally by: Virtuozzo

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Kieron > don't get this the wrong way but are you going mad? There's heaps of other stuff to fix and put in game that was forgotten ...

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Originally by: AceOfSpace

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Originally by: news item

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hauling corporations are heralding this as a major improvement to their profit margin.

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Hehe, really don't think it's good news for haulers

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Originally by: Virtuozzo

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Kieron > don't get this the wrong way but are you going mad? There's heaps of other stuff to fix and put in game that was forgotten ...

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Originally by: Wrangler

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]Knowing what pirates are like, they were going to blow up freighters anyway, so it's more good news for pirates, but not really bad news for freighter pilots.

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Originally by: Mysticaa

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Originally by: Wrangler

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]Knowing what pirates are like, they were going to blow up freighters anyway, so it's more good news for pirates, but not really bad news for freighter pilots.

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Actually pirates will now stop ransoming freighters just to get thier stuff so we should see more frieghter destructions with this change.

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Originally by: HippoKing

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Originally by: Dark Shikari

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As of Tuesday, the number of freighter ransoms will probably decline.

And by decline, I mean crash.

And by crash, I mean "zero."

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I doubt that: even if the pilot drops more than the ransom value in the cans, it will be a ***** to haul off (frieghters can't scoop the loot, so you need to use indies)

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Originally by: Dark Shikari

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Edited by: Dark Shikari on 30/06/2006 18:41:05

As of Tuesday, the number of freighter ransoms will probably decline.

And by decline, I mean crash.

And by crash, I mean "zero."

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Originally by: Azerrad

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I like this new method of announcing updates. News items seem much more interesting that patch notes.

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Originally by: Vincent Gaines

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oh yay, so now we can haul in something that still can't do squat for a POS, but can now drop cans.

all from a ship with no way to fight back or run at all.

i'm not trolling....I'm serious. Now freighters get to fear suicide raven squads.

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Originally by: Tessa Vaako

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Originally by: Vincent Gaines

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oh yay, so now we can haul in something that still can't do squat for a POS, but can now drop cans.

all from a ship with no way to fight back or run at all.

i'm not trolling....I'm serious. Now freighters get to fear suicide raven squads.

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Um, fly with an escort?

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Originally by: Vincent Gaines

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Edited by: Vincent Gaines on 30/06/2006 19:49:40

Originally by: Tessa Vaako

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Originally by: Vincent Gaines

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oh yay, so now we can haul in something that still can't do squat for a POS, but can now drop cans.

all from a ship with no way to fight back or run at all.

i'm not trolling....I'm serious. Now freighters get to fear suicide raven squads.

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Um, fly with an escort?

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sure...why not. I'm sure a squad of 5 or so would love to escort a freighter making a 30 jump run through empire.

sounds like FUN!

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Originally by: Vincent Gaines

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Edited by: Vincent Gaines on 30/06/2006 19:49:40

Originally by: Tessa Vaako

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Originally by: Vincent Gaines

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oh yay, so now we can haul in something that still can't do squat for a POS, but can now drop cans.

all from a ship with no way to fight back or run at all.

i'm not trolling....I'm serious. Now freighters get to fear suicide raven squads.

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Um, fly with an escort?

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sure...why not. I'm sure a squad of 5 or so would love to escort a freighter making a 30 jump run through empire.

sounds like FUN!

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Originally by: Yarrmageddon

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Now people will have to grow a brain and get an escort when they're moving a fortune

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Originally by: Tessa Vaako

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Ars Caelestis recently did a 22 jump freighter operation in under 90 minutes. And that includes the time it took to bust up a gate camp. I'm sorry, what's the problem again?

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Originally by: Jim McGregor

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I think it just became worth suiciding 20 battleships in Jita.

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Originally by: Vincent Gaines

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Originally by: Tessa Vaako

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Ars Caelestis recently did a 22 jump freighter operation in under 90 minutes. And that includes the time it took to bust up a gate camp. I'm sorry, what's the problem again?

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so let's say you do 2 runs. that's 6 hours.

or maybe you just go out and back... that's 3 hours.

do that daily, I'm sure there corpmates will be fighting thier way to sign up for escort duty. It's time well spent.

If you're going ot make it more lucrative to nail freighters, then give the big lugs some slots to help them out.

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Originally by: Vincent Gaines

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in fact, what can an escort do against suicide ravens?

nothing.

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Originally by: Matthew

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I'm sure it would still be far quicker moving large quantities of cargo like that than with 6 people running in indys.

Freighters were never really designed to be AFK solo ships, the intention was always for them to operate at the group level of the game in the same way dreads are fairly easily pwned by a group of BS when solo.

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Originally by: Jim McGregor

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Edited by: Jim McGregor on 30/06/2006 20:01:17

Originally by: Yarrmageddon

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Now people will have to grow a brain and get an escort when they're moving a fortune

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I think alts will be better. Use one to scout ahead. Dont go to gates where 20 battleships are sitting. If they have to warp in to gank the hauler, it will take some time and will make coordinating the attack a little harder.

Even if they have escorts of 5-6 battleships, they wont be able to stop the attack on the freighter since everybody is suiciding anyway. Also, the lag will make the battle almost unplayable.

Even if the escort would try to target jam the ships to prevent damage (before they fire off their alpha-strikes), concord would attack them and kill them.

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Originally by: Rasitiln

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stop your whineing when we did the risk operation we escourted 7 freighters up and down a 40 jump trip through 0.0 in battleships including a 7 minute warp through 9-266q several times. Ya a 7 minute warp in a freighter. So suck it up and deal with it. The fact freighters didnt drop cans to start with was a bug. Tomb even said so

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Originally by: Vincent Gaines

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Originally by: Rasitiln

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stop your whineing when we did the risk operation we escourted 7 freighters up and down a 40 jump trip through 0.0 in battleships including a 7 minute warp through 9-266q several times. Ya a 7 minute warp in a freighter. So suck it up and deal with it. The fact freighters didnt drop cans to start with was a bug. Tomb even said so

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I guess it's only whining when it affects you for the better?

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Originally by: Vincent Gaines

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login traps are not an exploit.

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Originally by: Vincent Gaines

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If you're going ot make it more lucrative to nail freighters, then give the big lugs some slots to help them out.

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Originally by: Tessa Vaako

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Originally by: Vincent Gaines

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If you're going ot make it more lucrative to nail freighters, then give the big lugs some slots to help them out.

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I challenge the lucrativeness of it.

Ok, some rough numbers according to Quickfit:

An unskilled Obelisk has 5300 shields, 22500 armour and 120,000 structure.
Using suiciding max skilled Torp Ravens with a full rack of BCUIIs and T2 Siege launchers:

1 volley of Bane Mjolnir removes the shields
4 volleys of Bane Rage removes the armour
22 volleys of Bane (whatever) pops the freighter.

With a 7 second cycle time on the torps, I'll assume that each raven only gets one volley at a freighter before it gets ganked by CONCORD. That means an attacking corp will need to go through TWENTY SEVEN T2 fitted ravens for EACH freighter.

There had better be something REALLY worth it.

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Originally by: Kaaii

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Ive thought it over and i see what this is leading up to...


Since the freighter containment field is been improved, freigthers will now be able to SCOOP and JETTISON cans at will..

After all, whats good for the goose.......

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Quote:

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Serenity Search, Salvage and Storage

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Originally by: Vlad

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Edited by: Vlad on 30/06/2006 20:46:39
Raven's will get off at least two vollies before being destroyed even in 1.0 (takes around 30 to 35 seconds for concord to respond and take out a tech 1 equiped raven in 1.0)

Talk about seriously ending the game for the smaller groups/corps who operate in empire :(

- Ganking in empire is far too easy
- It costs the pirates far too little with too high a reward

Adding Frieghters to the list of viable targets in empire is in my opionion a very bad idea, at least when they didn't leave loot it made it pointless to blow them up unless it was personal.

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Originally by: FalconHawk

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20 ships .... 20*30mil insurance = 600mil

wondering how many freighters haul stuff for far more than that, but i guess there are a lot

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Quote:

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Raven's will get off at least two vollies before being destroyed even in 1.0

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Originally by: HippoKing

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I take it you guys haven't thought about just how:

a) difficult to orchestrate
b) risky
c) awesome
d) obvious

using 30 ravens to gank a frieghter would be?

I'll give you another piece of advice for free too:
Use a scout. If there are 30ravens in the same corp on the gate, don't jump through

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Originally by: HippoKing

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I take it you guys haven't thought about just how:

a) difficult to orchestrate

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Quote:

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b) risky

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Quote:

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c) awesome

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Quote:

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d) obvious

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Quote:

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I'll give you another piece of advice for free too:
Use a scout. If there are 30ravens in the same corp on the gate, don't jump through

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Originally by: Eilene Fernite

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I have no problems with high sec ganking, as long as there are ways to deal with it other than just logging off.

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Originally by: Vlad

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Edited by: Vlad on 30/06/2006 21:44:01
Edited by: Vlad on 30/06/2006 21:43:48
Correct me if i'm wrong but I thought the only ships that were immune to EW were Mothership/Titans and then Dreads when in seige mode.

Takes a transporter around 60 seconds to line up and enter warp after entering a system, even with max skills.

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Originally by: Rod Blaine

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Originally by: Vlad

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Edited by: Vlad on 30/06/2006 21:44:01
Edited by: Vlad on 30/06/2006 21:43:48
Correct me if i'm wrong but I thought the only ships that were immune to EW were Mothership/Titans and then Dreads when in seige mode.

Takes a transporter around 60 seconds to line up and enter warp after entering a system, even with max skills.

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After the freighter jumps in, have it activate warp and immediately lock it and web it after it uncloaks. It will warp instantly because it's speed will be reduced enough to put it over the 70% of maximum (or thereabouts) needed to warp.

No 30 ravens can lock and pop a freighter inside the time it takes a corpmate in an interceptor to lock and web it.

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Originally by: Lance Hawke

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I'm astounded as to how many people honestly believe it will be common to have 30 ravens suiciding freighters. Maybe once or twice... but come on...

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Originally by: kieron

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Two new news items to announce this evening. First, Tranquility will be down for an extended maintenance period on Wednesday, 05 July at 1100 GMT. This is a departure from our normal Tues/Thurs schedule because of the US holiday and vacation of our DB admin.

The second news item concerns testing and deployment of a change to freighters. What is this change? Read the news item to find out.

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Originally by: Lorieen

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Nice... I see the new standard cargo compliment will be 800+ or so shuttles in my hold since I rarely use all of the freighters cargo space when moving spendy cargo.

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Originally by: Kaaii

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I lost my first charon to 7 ships. Not all of them battleships.

It can be done with less than 10 inside 2 mins. Compound that with concords AI roughtly on par with a POS in targetting, add drones, frigs for added concorrdoken targetting confusion, and you're looking at one dead freighter in <2m

Totall cost to griefers BS cost - insurance.

You don't need fancy T2 everything 4tw, unlike previous posters guesses. A pack of 2 month old greifers can accomplish this easliy.

You can tell none of the devs fly freighters.......

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Originally by: Oveur

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This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.

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Originally by: kieron

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Originally by: Azerrad

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I like this new method of announcing updates. News items seem much more interesting that patch notes.

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I am going to start using RP news for notification of some of the changes to the game. I couldn't justify putting the Ice Field depletion and proposed Freighter changes on their own patch note page, especially since they are/were hotfixes and the client version did not change. Making a forum post will fall out of the community awareness due to forum traffic, RP news tends to stay on the announcements page longer and I honestly have fun writing them.

Community response has been favorable to the style, so expect to see more announcements of this sort. Thanks for the feedback!

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Originally by: ToxicFire

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Question, will this now mean that items can also be picked up and ejected while in space and allow transfers to POS structures

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Originally by: Verite Rendition

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Hey, at least on the plus side Outpost construction just got really easy. Tack on a few billion to the bill to pay for extra post-egg materials and the insurance + difference on a few freighters, and then you can scuttle those at the site to deliver the goods.

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Originally by: Gronsak

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Originally by: Lorieen

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Nice... I see the new standard cargo compliment will be 800+ or so shuttles in my hold since I rarely use all of the freighters cargo space when moving spendy cargo.

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i can see freighter manufactuers subsidisng the empire gankers, will be very very very cheap to kill a freighter, so even if i saw 500shuttles, id order a kill, just so you loose a freighter

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Originally by: Hon Kovell

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So 15 Armageddons/Ravens at the gate, another 10 industrials to get the loot, 20 more freelance industrials drawn by the waiting gank squad, 30 frigates full of expanders drawn by the waiting gank squad, 20 Stabbers full of expanders drawn by the waiting gank squad and another 10-50 ships wondering what's going on or come to see what gets ganked.

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Originally by: Vlad

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Originally by: Rod Blaine

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Originally by: Vlad

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Edited by: Vlad on 30/06/2006 21:44:01
Edited by: Vlad on 30/06/2006 21:43:48
Correct me if i'm wrong but I thought the only ships that were immune to EW were Mothership/Titans and then Dreads when in seige mode.

Takes a transporter around 60 seconds to line up and enter warp after entering a system, even with max skills.

---

After the freighter jumps in, have it activate warp and immediately lock it and web it after it uncloaks. It will warp instantly because it's speed will be reduced enough to put it over the 70% of maximum (or thereabouts) needed to warp.

No 30 ravens can lock and pop a freighter inside the time it takes a corpmate in an interceptor to lock and web it.

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a) you have to be facing where you are warping too to do that and in a freighter that takes anything upto 30 seconds (60 seconds to do a 360)
b) if they have stasis modules active against the frieghter you can garrentee that they will have warp sramblers on as well, which you will have no defense against in a freigher

Using some ship with smartbombs in empire is just suicide yourself, specially at the gates.

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Originally by: Avon

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Originally by: Vlad

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Originally by: Rod Blaine

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Originally by: Vlad

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Edited by: Vlad on 30/06/2006 21:44:01
Edited by: Vlad on 30/06/2006 21:43:48
Correct me if i'm wrong but I thought the only ships that were immune to EW were Mothership/Titans and then Dreads when in seige mode.

Takes a transporter around 60 seconds to line up and enter warp after entering a system, even with max skills.

---

After the freighter jumps in, have it activate warp and immediately lock it and web it after it uncloaks. It will warp instantly because it's speed will be reduced enough to put it over the 70% of maximum (or thereabouts) needed to warp.

No 30 ravens can lock and pop a freighter inside the time it takes a corpmate in an interceptor to lock and web it.

---

a) you have to be facing where you are warping too to do that and in a freighter that takes anything upto 30 seconds (60 seconds to do a 360)
b) if they have stasis modules active against the frieghter you can garrentee that they will have warp sramblers on as well, which you will have no defense against in a freigher

Using some ship with smartbombs in empire is just suicide yourself, specially at the gates.

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I think you are missing whar Rod said.
The person who webs the freighter is that pilots corpmate, not someone trying to kill it.
Give it a try and see how it works rather than just discrediting the idea. As soon as the freighter tries to warp (when warp is seleceted and it starts building up speed and aligning), get someone (in the same corp, otherwise concord pay a visit) to stasis web the freighter.
Once you have tried it, then come back here and comment on the tactic.

Honestly, you give people top tips, and they just throw it back in your face.

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Originally by: Hon Kovell

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So 15 Armageddons/Ravens at the gate, another 10 industrials to get the loot, 20 more freelance industrials drawn by the waiting gank squad, 30 frigates full of expanders drawn by the waiting gank squad, 20 Stabbers full of expanders drawn by the waiting gank squad and another 10-50 ships wondering what's going on or come to see what gets ganked.

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Originally by: Infinity Ziona

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Good change but does that mean you'll never get loot larger then the size of a jetcan and if so will people be able to wrap their cargo's to be larger then a jetcan using missions to bypass the loot ejecting into space?

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Originally by: Deja Thoris

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A long while back before my MC days we set up a squad to suicide gank a freighter.

They were a lot rarer back then and about 20 of us spent 2 Sat evenings waiting for a viable target. We thought we could do it with 20.

Then we found out they don't drop cans

Anyway, imo if someone can go to the trouble to kit out 20 odd bs and get 20 people to sit at a gate (with scanning scouts) as well as indy support to pick up loot then they deserve the loot.

It has every chance of failing and on top of this all the cool loot may be destroyed.

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Originally by: Infinity Ziona

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Originally by: Deja Thoris

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A long while back before my MC days we set up a squad to suicide gank a freighter.

They were a lot rarer back then and about 20 of us spent 2 Sat evenings waiting for a viable target. We thought we could do it with 20.

Then we found out they don't drop cans

Anyway, imo if someone can go to the trouble to kit out 20 odd bs and get 20 people to sit at a gate (with scanning scouts) as well as indy support to pick up loot then they deserve the loot.

It has every chance of failing and on top of this all the cool loot may be destroyed.

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Raven - the new kestrel.

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Originally by: Vlad

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Originally by: Avon

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Originally by: Vlad

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Originally by: Rod Blaine

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Originally by: Vlad

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Edited by: Vlad on 30/06/2006 21:44:01
Edited by: Vlad on 30/06/2006 21:43:48
Correct me if i'm wrong but I thought the only ships that were immune to EW were Mothership/Titans and then Dreads when in seige mode.

Takes a transporter around 60 seconds to line up and enter warp after entering a system, even with max skills.

---

After the freighter jumps in, have it activate warp and immediately lock it and web it after it uncloaks. It will warp instantly because it's speed will be reduced enough to put it over the 70% of maximum (or thereabouts) needed to warp.

No 30 ravens can lock and pop a freighter inside the time it takes a corpmate in an interceptor to lock and web it.

---

a) you have to be facing where you are warping too to do that and in a freighter that takes anything upto 30 seconds (60 seconds to do a 360)
b) if they have stasis modules active against the frieghter you can garrentee that they will have warp sramblers on as well, which you will have no defense against in a freigher

Using some ship with smartbombs in empire is just suicide yourself, specially at the gates.

---

I think you are missing whar Rod said.
The person who webs the freighter is that pilots corpmate, not someone trying to kill it.
Give it a try and see how it works rather than just discrediting the idea. As soon as the freighter tries to warp (when warp is seleceted and it starts building up speed and aligning), get someone (in the same corp, otherwise concord pay a visit) to stasis web the freighter.
Once you have tried it, then come back here and comment on the tactic.

Honestly, you give people top tips, and they just throw it back in your face.

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I did read what was said, there was no mention to it being a friend that warp stasis'd the frieghter.

I will try this just to see if it can be done - if it does work then I believe it is some kind of bug as the frieghter will be warping sideways, CCP put the delay into warp there for a reason...

Your slipping Avon, is that the best arguement you have? :)

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Originally by: kieron

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I am going to start using RP news for notification of some of the changes to the game.

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Originally by: James Duar

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It also occurs to me that the attackers would flag to everyone in the corp, and since we're looking at Caldari equipment for this sort of operation couldn't you load support flyers with Defender missiles to take out some of the damage?

I'll admit I don't understand missiles at all.

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Quote:

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I did read what was said, there was no mention to it being a friend that warp stasis'd the frieghter.

I will try this just to see if it can be done - if it does work then I believe it is some kind of bug as the frieghter will be warping sideways, CCP put the delay into warp there for a reason...

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Originally by: FalconHawk

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20 ships .... 20*30mil insurance = 600mil

wondering how many freighters haul stuff for far more than that, but i guess there are a lot

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Originally by: Arlenna Molatov

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Originally by: FalconHawk

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20 ships .... 20*30mil insurance = 600mil

wondering how many freighters haul stuff for far more than that, but i guess there are a lot

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Here is a prime example of a discussion in another thread..or was it a chat channel...damnit, can never remember. But anyways. Concord should NOT give out insurance payments for pirating in Concord sactioned space. IE .5-1.0 space. No insurance shopuld be paid out for any act of pirating that results in Concord being notified and having to respond. This will make pirating....really pirating. Why should you be paid to attack someone else and have the "police" respond? Doesn't make a damn bit of sense.

And this is not a knock on the pirates. Its just common sense. No goverment entity or business would be paying your insurance costs to destroy someone or kill someone where authorities would be responding.

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Originally by: Butter Dog

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Nice.

I don't see it changing much though.

Do you have any idea how many suicide ravens you would need to down a freighter in Empire? And then an army of haulers to collect the loot. You're talking about a 100 man operation. It will never, ever happen.

And freighters in 0.0/lowsec - well, they are always escorted, and who is going to bother popping one and having 700,000 m3 to haul out in indys? No-one, thats who.

So nothing really changes, but I am pleased they now drop loot anyway.

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Originally by: Driven

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Pretty dodgy judgment if you asked me, given the number of topics this ill-considered change has spawned.

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Originally by: Audri Fisher

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And the solution to be able to effectavly escort in high sec is comming when?

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Originally by: Driven

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Seeing as how my thread on this topic was locked by the forums mods because they said it was duplicative to the topic at hand, I'm forced apprarently to respond to here:

My thread about "Living in an Alternate Freighter Reality" wasn't intended to be focused as much upon the coming changes - unfair as they are - but my taking issue with Wrangler and what must be the alternate reality that he must live in to state what he stated about the changes.

Wrangler said "Knowing what pirates are like, they were going to blow up freighters anyway, so it's more good news for pirates, but not really bad news for freighter pilots."

Perhaps I'll state my opinion about that more clearly: If Wrangler or any Developers or GMs truly believe this is not bad news for Freighter pilots, then they are on *****. Period. Clear enough?

I think they are talking through their hats on this on, thus the low profile and lack of responses to numerous credible issues raised by the non-twitch-and-drool crowd.

We get nothing on the flipside of this nerf. No Freighter slots, no converse use of the Freighter to pick up cans, no help. Just one more producer nerf after a long line of producer nerfs.

Everyone can see what is coming from a mile away - and those who claim its going to be impossible to round up a gang to pull off these ganks, that it cannot be coordinated, know better.

The myth that its going to take a giant fleet of Ravens, etc. has already been blown up as well, with the analysis done by one inventive player, who has calculated the cost of an empire gank on a Freighter at 150M isk:

7x dhp T2 [5mil isk]
3x sensor booster, or 2x sensor booster 1x 20km [basic stuff so free]
3x dmg mod T2 [1.2mil]. 5x 1600mm [1mil isk]
5x thermal sentry drones [300k]

total cost of equipment 7.5mil isk [assume 1/3 survives, thats like 5mil isk loss]

damage output near enough 900DPS

now a gedden can be bought for 52.5mil isk [bulk or build urself] and pays out 66.25. now i think it costs 22mil to insure a gedden fully [correct me if this is wrong] so you loose after insurace about 7.75 mil isk for the ship

so thats 15.25mil isk lost per ship.

Now assume in all that, that the ships last 20 seconds, thats roughly 20k damage each gedden does. take a caldari freighter, has about 185k raw HP to lasers, lets say 200k HP.

would take you 10 such geddens to pull it off, assuming that the prediciton of 20sec life span for the ship is correct!

so total cost of downing one freighter with t2 kitted cheap geddens is roughly 150mil isk, less than a hac

I hope when we get the next producer nerf we'll at least get a genuine explanation of it, and who knows, maybe even some *gasp* logic, instead of this kind of flippant pablum.

Oh, and thanks, Jacques, for locking my thread for no good reason. Pretty dodgy judgment if you asked me, given the number of topics this ill-considered change has spawned.

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Originally by: Borgholio

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I don't intend to sound dramatic, but honestly how would it be possible to escort one of these beasts?

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Originally by: Avon

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Originally by: Borgholio

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I don't intend to sound dramatic, but honestly how would it be possible to escort one of these beasts?

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Remote reps & good gang skills would be a winning combination.

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Originally by: Borgholio

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Originally by: Avon

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Originally by: Borgholio

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I don't intend to sound dramatic, but honestly how would it be possible to escort one of these beasts?

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Remote reps & good gang skills would be a winning combination.

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Perhaps...if you were to get enough people with remote reppers to last until the gankers were concorded. But that effectively eliminates small corps and solo entrepreneurs from operating freighters.

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Originally by: Koihime Hachisuka

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I know once thing for sure. I am not willing to risk a 1 billion ISK investment + the cost of the cargo for the sake of others 'fun' This maybe carebear talk but honestly why should I? Its taken a long time for me to get this ship and even longer to able to afford the trade items to fill it. So I am expected to say 'wow good fight guys, that was awesome fun' when I get suicided. Or have the idiots brag about their amazing accomplishment on the forums.
Oh nooes I forgot, I could use scouts and an escort for my long runs that take all day. That would be a great idea. My fellow players would love to escort me for 4 hours wouldn't they? Of course I would love to share the 10 mill profit 10 ways cos that would be so much more fun.
Listen up CCP, listen to YOUR CUSTOMERS. I like to come on-line for a few hours scan the local markets, find a decent trade run, buy the stuff, transport it and if its more than a few jumps, go AFK whilst my defensless slotless ship SLOWLY make its way across the universe, then sell the stuff. I don't want to take risks so my reward is low. Thats fine. You are forcing me to change the way I WANT to play this game. I don't want to PvP with guns I want to PvP with trade. This has to be the worst idea I have seen. The pirates already have plenty of ways to make money and ISK and have lots of fun doing it. You are adding nothing with this patch. If you were also adding being able to scoop and drop off at POS's that might be something but no your not.
I cannot believe you sat there and thought this was even remotly a good idea.


WTS Charon. contact me ingame with offers

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Originally by: Tas Devil

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Originally by: Borgholio

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Originally by: Avon

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Originally by: Borgholio

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I don't intend to sound dramatic, but honestly how would it be possible to escort one of these beasts?

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Remote reps & good gang skills would be a winning combination.

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Perhaps...if you were to get enough people with remote reppers to last until the gankers were concorded. But that effectively eliminates small corps and solo entrepreneurs from operating freighters.

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Quoted to show how much people don't know what they're talking about...

All you need to escort a freighter is a t1 frig with a MWD to close into web range fast ... and a webber to capapult the freighter into warp as soon as you lock it... END OF THE STORY

Its really gettign humouristic how everyone expresses an opinion on this without having a clue what they are talking about...

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Originally by: Borgholio

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Scaremongering horse manure level 5

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Originally by: Tas Devil

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Originally by: Borgholio

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Scaremongering horse manure level 5

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I'm of the opinion that a frig will always lock a freighter faster then a BS... and the minute the freighter hits the warp button if it gets webbed it will catapult into warp... a 2 man team doing its job half decently can avoid any freighter being warp scrambled before it gets catapulted into warp...

And before you go scaremongering even more and talk of inties doing the warp scrambling for the attackers... try and think how long an inty lasts when engaged by sentry guns...

Finally if you are so sure you're going to get ganged in empire in your freighter and are transporting valuable cargo worth a 3B suicide gang engaging you... fly with a huggin as a corp mate... with a minimum of 34km webbing range those ships only need a rack of sensor boosters + a 10km webber to be the perfect freighter escort...

continue with your scaremongering anyway its getting amusing...

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Originally by: Borgholio

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Originally by: Avon

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Originally by: Borgholio

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I don't intend to sound dramatic, but honestly how would it be possible to escort one of these beasts?

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Remote reps & good gang skills would be a winning combination.

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Perhaps...if you were to get enough people with remote reppers to last until the gankers were concorded. But that effectively eliminates small corps and solo entrepreneurs from operating freighters.

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Originally by: Tas Devil

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Originally by: Borgholio

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Originally by: Avon

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Originally by: Borgholio

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I don't intend to sound dramatic, but honestly how would it be possible to escort one of these beasts?

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Remote reps & good gang skills would be a winning combination.

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Perhaps...if you were to get enough people with remote reppers to last until the gankers were concorded. But that effectively eliminates small corps and solo entrepreneurs from operating freighters.

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If that's not scaremongering what is ?

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Originally by: Avena

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Very little will change for a freighter pilot to be honest.
...
At the end of the day, the freighter pilot still loses their freighter, and everything inside it when it is destroyed, and has to pick up the pieces from insurance payouts. Nothing in that respect changes.
...
All I see here from the people complaining is the fact that they don't like the idea of someone getting their hands on their goods if their freighter goes down. That's all it boils down to.
...

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Originally by: Sicariidae

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"in fact, what can an escort do against suicide ravens?

nothing."

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Originally by: Karol Kei

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I guess the main reason why people aren't too keen on all these couter measures is the fact all of them can be countered as well. Command ship just adds some more damage to be dealt, and logistic can only repair that much. Webber inty really does not work nowhere near as well as has been advertised here, and let's be honest: When people will start arranging these ganks they will bring in a ship to take out the webber inty - either kill it outright or just simply jam it.

The concern about remote hull repairers is a very valid one, and really it should be addressed before this change.

The real solution would be to give real tools to escort ships in the empire space - and none of this might-work sometimes things that are being proposed. Right now the risk vs. reward is seriously farked in the favour of the gankers as the only risk they take is the possible destruction of the cargo they are hoping to scoop up. Other than that is simply a choice of exchanging their assets for something else. Zero risk. This change will introduce freighters to the equation thus multiplying the stakes and as far as risk vs. reward balance goes this is worse than lvl 4 agents ever were.

The bottom line is: Freighters not dropping loot makes no sense. It has to change. Though, I would wish that one of these years CCP would learn from its countless mistakes and actually think about the ramifications of a change they are about to make - as needed as many of them have been and will be. Apparently this is not the year, yet.

By the way, WTB 100 ravens cheap. ;)

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Originally by: Tas Devil

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LMAO ... another scaremongerer... why don't you sell me your freighter real cheap since you won't be using it anymore ?

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