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Xary	Posted - 2006.07.04 21:49:00 - [1] Can you effectively still be a sniper in a Mega without access to Tech 2 large Rails? I currently have most of the other pieces I would use in the mega at Tech 2 but it will be quite some time to get Tech 2 large rails. Help appreciated!
Nikolai Nuvolari	Posted - 2006.07.04 21:56:00 - [2] No. -------- Tom Thumb > for a nut case you rawk [04:21:15] Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw [07:38:53] Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108!
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.07.04 21:59:00 - [3] Yes you can. People did it all the time before T2 ammo was introduced. The only difference between then and now is that T2 ammo lets you do it far better. TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust - Suvetar, care to confirm these rumours about you being an unstoppable sex machine? LOL -Suvetar
Nikolai Nuvolari	Posted - 2006.07.04 22:03:00 - [4] Okay, if you want to be really technical, yes you can snipe with T1...but you'll be outranged and outdamaged by all the other snipers, so you won't be much use. -------- Tom Thumb > for a nut case you rawk [04:21:15] Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw [07:38:53] Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108!
LWMaverick	Posted - 2006.07.04 23:27:00 - [5] Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari Okay, if you want to be really technical, yes you can snipe with T1...but you'll be outranged and outdamaged by all the other snipers, so you won't be much use. ... Anyway.. yes you can, t1 is just fine Poverty
Nikolai Nuvolari	Posted - 2006.07.05 00:16:00 - [6] Originally by: LWMaverick Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari Okay, if you want to be really technical, yes you can snipe with T1...but you'll be outranged and outdamaged by all the other snipers, so you won't be much use. Do you DISPUTE that he'll be doing less than 55% of the damage and at less than 80% of the range with T1 guns and Iron as the T2 snipers with Spike? -------- Tom Thumb > for a nut case you rawk [04:21:15] Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw [07:38:53] Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108!
xenodia	Posted - 2006.07.05 00:18:00 - [7] Originally by: Xary Can you effectively still be a sniper in a Mega without access to Tech 2 large Rails? I currently have most of the other pieces I would use in the mega at Tech 2 but it will be quite some time to get Tech 2 large rails. Help appreciated! Yes, you can, but you will be outranged and outdamaged by a similarly skilled player with tech2 rails and ammo.
vyperpit	Posted - 2006.07.05 00:19:00 - [8] no you cant, typical range is now 180km start, where all t2 long range ammo snipers can hit! so in a t1 megathron, you will not hit at all, ley alone 55% of the dmg of t2 snipers
fmercury	Posted - 2006.07.05 00:35:00 - [9] Originally by: vyperpit no you cant, typical range is now 180km start, where all t2 long range ammo snipers can hit! so in a t1 megathron, you will not hit at all, ley alone 55% of the dmg of t2 snipers My mega has a 187km optimal with iron. So, it it certainly possible to snipe with t1. However, t2 is a lot more effective.
Ab Initio	Posted - 2006.07.05 00:37:00 - [10] Edited by: Ab Initio on 05/07/2006 00:37:40 Originally by: Xary Can you effectively still be a sniper in a Mega without access to Tech 2 large Rails? I currently have most of the other pieces I would use in the mega at Tech 2 but it will be quite some time to get Tech 2 large rails. Help appreciated! You really need to give more information about what it is that you're trying to accomplish. The differing opinions in this thread are caused by the fact that everyone is approaching your question differently. As mentioned earlier, yes it can be used as a sniper, as it was before T2 ammo existed.
vyperpit	Posted - 2006.07.05 00:51:00 - [11] Originally by: fmercury Originally by: vyperpit no you cant, typical range is now 180km start, where all t2 long range ammo snipers can hit! so in a t1 megathron, you will not hit at all, ley alone 55% of the dmg of t2 snipers My mega has a 187km optimal with iron. So, it it certainly possible to snipe with t1. However, t2 is a lot more effective. with T2 guns try iron with T1 non named guns and u got 155km optimal with your setup
Hllaxiu	Posted - 2006.07.05 00:56:00 - [12] Originally by: vyperpit Originally by: fmercury Originally by: vyperpit no you cant, typical range is now 180km start, where all t2 long range ammo snipers can hit! so in a t1 megathron, you will not hit at all, ley alone 55% of the dmg of t2 snipers My mega has a 187km optimal with iron. So, it it certainly possible to snipe with t1. However, t2 is a lot more effective. 3 with T2 guns try iron with T1 non named guns and u got 155km optimal with your setup He could have been using faction or prototypes - its the same range. --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Benglada	Posted - 2006.07.05 01:39:00 - [13] Originally by: Sarmaul Yes you can. People did it all the time before T2 ammo was introduced. The only difference between then and now is that T2 ammo lets you do it far better. Stupid statement, before t2 ammo there was almost no stacking penalty and you could just stack on tons of tracking enhancers and tracking comps and use lower ranged higher damaging ammo. --------------------------- Originally by: Wrangler Unfrtinately you dnot get to vote..
vyperpit	Posted - 2006.07.05 01:42:00 - [14] Originally by: Hllaxiu He could have been using faction or prototypes - its the same range. yes faction guns in pvp, in sniper gang bangs, erm i dont see it happening and for prototypes, yeh he could use them, at 14.5mil a pop with 7 guns making just over 100mil isk for guns, somehow i dont think so!
OrangeAfroMan	Posted - 2006.07.05 02:44:00 - [15] Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari Okay, if you want to be really technical, yes you can snipe with T1...but you'll be outranged and outdamaged by all the other snipers, so you won't be much use. How many "other snipers" will you be fighting at a random one man gate sniping camp?? Gronsak is Tux's angry alt.
Lisento Slaven	Posted - 2006.07.05 03:54:00 - [16] I'd like to point out that the OP will probably run into people who aren't sniping him with t2 ammo when he's sniping. Go ahead and snipe with t1 weapons. I do it all the time with my arma and insta pop frigs and make cruisers unhappy...Tachyons+Infrared. To those of you who think its stupid, not everyone in EVE is at "uberleet" levels...we have to work with what we have access to, and so do our enemies. --- Lisento Slaven wants to be a Space Whaler in EVE. Put in space whales!
vyperpit	Posted - 2006.07.05 04:01:00 - [17] Edited by: vyperpit on 05/07/2006 04:01:03 The problem is that T2 ammo has put vets into a league of their own Before T2 ammo. A t2 fitted ship had 20% better stats [optimal, damage, ect] and about 8% more damage from spec skill so a T2 kitted ship did about 30% more damage and hit about 20% further for a lot more isk and harder fitting! With the introduction of T2 ammo this has completely changed. Now a T2 kitted sniper can hit at ranges a T1 cant! Which is stupid in itself, but even if the T1 kitted sniper hits back its like half damage! and for t2 high dmg ammo, well it means how a t2 kitted ship can fit t2 ammo and on top of that 30% get another 25% giving T2 kitted ships >60% damage which is game breaking!!
OrangeAfroMan	Posted - 2006.07.05 04:12:00 - [18] Originally by: vyperpit Edited by: vyperpit on 05/07/2006 04:01:03 The problem is that T2 ammo has put vets into a league of their own Before T2 ammo. A t2 fitted ship had 20% better stats [optimal, damage, ect] and about 8% more damage from spec skill so a T2 kitted ship did about 30% more damage and hit about 20% further for a lot more isk and harder fitting! With the introduction of T2 ammo this has completely changed. Now a T2 kitted sniper can hit at ranges a T1 cant! Which is stupid in itself, but even if the T1 kitted sniper hits back its like half damage! and for t2 high dmg ammo, well it means how a t2 kitted ship can fit t2 ammo and on top of that 30% get another 25% giving T2 kitted ships >60% damage which is game breaking!! Thats true, however I must snuff you with a pillow because thats a whole nother topic for a whole nother thread.... starts snuffing Gronsak is Tux's angry alt.
Waenn Ironstaff	Posted - 2006.07.05 05:05:00 - [19] How effective Iron charges really are damage wise though...? I've used them before and it's so pathetic....
Aeaus	Posted - 2006.07.05 05:45:00 - [20] Originally by: OrangeAfroMan Originally by: vyperpit Edited by: vyperpit on 05/07/2006 04:01:03 The problem is that T2 ammo has put vets into a league of their own Before T2 ammo. A t2 fitted ship had 20% better stats [optimal, damage, ect] and about 8% more damage from spec skill so a T2 kitted ship did about 30% more damage and hit about 20% further for a lot more isk and harder fitting! With the introduction of T2 ammo this has completely changed. Now a T2 kitted sniper can hit at ranges a T1 cant! Which is stupid in itself, but even if the T1 kitted sniper hits back its like half damage! and for t2 high dmg ammo, well it means how a t2 kitted ship can fit t2 ammo and on top of that 30% get another 25% giving T2 kitted ships >60% damage which is game breaking!! Thats true, however I must snuff you with a pillow because thats a whole nother topic for a whole nother thread.... starts snuffing But it is, no other aspect of combat is so completely unbalanced by T2 as sniping. It doesn't seem useful to snipe when you barely do any damage at pathetic ranges. My Guides (Recomended Reading)
Wodin Drukvik	Posted - 2006.07.05 06:25:00 - [21] Originally by: vyperpit Originally by: Hllaxiu He could have been using faction or prototypes - its the same range. yes faction guns in pvp, in sniper gang bangs, erm i dont see it happening and for prototypes, yeh he could use them, at 14.5mil a pop with 7 guns making just over 100mil isk for guns, somehow i dont think so! He was, in fact, using a rack of 425 Prototypes to get that range. It's probably reasonable to assume a T1 sniper is using 'Scout' which would give him a range of 160 or so - certainly plenty to do a good bit of damage while waiting for T2 to finish training.
Testicular Testes	Posted - 2006.07.05 07:36:00 - [22] Originally by: Aeaus But it is, no other aspect of combat is so completely unbalanced by T2 as sniping. It doesn't seem useful to snipe when you barely do any damage at pathetic ranges. Replace 'sniping' with 'using turrets' and you have a winner on your hands.
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.07.05 08:20:00 - [23] Originally by: Benglada Originally by: Sarmaul Yes you can. People did it all the time before T2 ammo was introduced. The only difference between then and now is that T2 ammo lets you do it far better. Stupid statement, before t2 ammo there was almost no stacking penalty and you could just stack on tons of tracking enhancers and tracking comps and use lower ranged higher damaging ammo. And stating that you can't do something because T2 does it better is also stupid. TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust - Suvetar, care to confirm these rumours about you being an unstoppable sex machine? LOL -Suvetar
zwerg	Posted - 2006.07.05 19:57:00 - [24] just No skil tII guns and laugh
Nikolai Nuvolari	Posted - 2006.07.05 22:30:00 - [25] Originally by: Sarmaul And stating that you can't do something because T2 does it better is also stupid. He didn't ask whether he could do it. He asked whether he could do it EFFECTIVELY. If you're COMPLETELY outclassed by the other snipers, you're not really being effective. -------- Tom Thumb > for a nut case you rawk [04:21:15] Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw [07:38:53] Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108!
Outa Rileau	Posted - 2006.07.05 22:48:00 - [26] Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari Originally by: LWMaverick Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari Okay, if you want to be really technical, yes you can snipe with T1...but you'll be outranged and outdamaged by all the other snipers, so you won't be much use. Do you DISPUTE that he'll be doing less than 55% of the damage and at less than 80% of the range with T1 guns and Iron as the T2 snipers with Spike? t2 ammo is f*cking expensive tbh
KilROCK	Posted - 2006.07.05 22:55:00 - [27] If you think you can hit frigates/cruisers using afterburner at 200km with t2 ammo, you have to be kidding yourself. Faction ammo when sniping is what you want. It's nice compare to the junky tracking nerfing of t2 long range ammo. If you're pirating, you'll like to invest in faction Iron. Whine whine whine, sigs
Nikolai Nuvolari	Posted - 2006.07.05 23:06:00 - [28] Originally by: Outa Rileau t2 ammo is f*cking expensive tbh On THAT point, you're quite right...upwards of ten times the cost of the most expensive T1 ammo...upwards of a hundred times as expensive as T1 long range ammo. -------- Tom Thumb > for a nut case you rawk [04:21:15] Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw [07:38:53] Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108!
Lisento Slaven	Posted - 2006.07.05 23:28:00 - [29] Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari Instapopping a Merlin doesn't take much. That's why in the other side of the same sentence I said 2 or 3 more BS's could do just as fine with T1 stuff. --- Lisento Slaven wants to be a Space Whaler in EVE. Put in space whales!
vyperpit	Posted - 2006.07.05 23:31:00 - [30] Originally by: Lisento Slaven I don't know. I seem to snipe fine using t1 stuff in my armageddon. About 1200 damage per volley with 7 tachyons(calculated without factoring in base resistances to shields or armor). Instapopped a merlin...figure with 2 or 3 more BS's sniping with me we could pop cruisers and BC's just as fine in a few volleys. how well would you do if i warped in 10 T2 kitted snipers at 180-200km from you? i assume your tachs would not even hit us back!

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