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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Sheeana Harb
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
30
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Posted - 2014.07.27 21:00:00 -
[121] - Quote
Kyshonuba wrote:Here it is Sheeana.
Thank you.
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Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
261
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Posted - 2014.07.28 14:11:00 -
[122] - Quote
Hrmp. A mandatory skill everyone who ever made a little ammo for personal usage had to have at 5 gets changed to a time bonus skill ... To be frank I would have preferred to get that SP in green as with just 3% per level speed bonus it is kind of pointless to take that skill to 5 unless you are really hardcore industrialist.
So that leaves one with a hard decision on how to justify such skill at 5 that would be just fine at 4 for most people. If you introduce additional skills that are actually useful and need this at 5 you end up with the old situation where you need to have that skill at 5 to participate in industry in meaningful way. Because it's a prerequisite for something actually useful. If you throw in there a small amount of relatively useless skills it does not justify having that skill at 5 after such a serious change to it. Ohwell - ofcource I have some skill ideas (some are already mentioned in the previous pages as well)
(*) NPC tax reduction (do note than your standings should also count, same as they do when you do market orders). I would leave tax reduction from standings slightly larger than from skill as +10 standings are very significant grind for most people. (*) Ability to use teams some amount of jumps away (perhaps at inceased fee and additional skill that lowers that additional fee back towards normal). For example: You can use a team up to 5 jumps away with each jump increasing the team fee additional 20% (at 5 jumps the team fee is double that what it would be in your home system). Additional skill lowering the remote team fee by 10% per level. So you would end up at only 150% at 5 jumps instead of 200% of the team fee at max skill. (*) Additional manufacturing/research slots (obviously) (*) Specialized manufacturing skills or changing specific construction skills that they give some additional bonus to T1 manufacturing as well. For example: Battleship construction providing x% per level time bonus to all battleship construction jobs. Similar skills for modules (or specific module groups), anchorables, drones, ammo, etc. (*) Branding? Is it still in the plans? Some additional modifiers?, say that you can change the base items stats by 1% per level in combination with branding (would make balancing a nightmare ofc). Example: Ballistic Control II - base item has 10.5% ROF and 10% damage bonus. You increase ROF by 5% so the new RoF bonus is 11.025% - if needed you can penalize all other stats by the same percentage as well. Then introduce additional skill to lower these penalties to, say, half of the default. Probably a bit too big undertasking to just add couple new skills ;) But that is how a sandbox manufacturing should work. Give a player pile of points and let him minmax stuff. Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... *THWONK!* GOT the bastard. |
Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
47
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Posted - 2014.07.28 15:57:00 -
[123] - Quote
Kyshonuba wrote:Here it is Sheeana. CCP Greyscale wrote:Retar Aveymone wrote:
So clarifying, material requirement reductions are looked down upon?
Generally speaking, cost reductions can be considered as having a lower probability of being implemented, all other things being equal. Ditto anything which requires significant feature work (eg queueing - that's a feature with a skill attached, not a skill modifying an existing number)...........
good thing that it wasn't ruled out just things like that are a low probability of happening. |
Amarisen Gream
Lone Wolf Union Yulai Federation
41
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Posted - 2014.07.28 16:08:00 -
[124] - Quote
Maybe CCP Greyscale would be kind enough, to issue a survey on Advanced Industry.
They've gotten a week or more worth of ideas. Now would be a good time to survey the player base and see how they feel about it all.
-- P.S. Sorry about my comment before about people no reading! But, there are a lot of redundant points being made. Which, at least in my history of looking for topics or points, hurts the over all develop. A simple +1 to ***** skill would awesome.
p.p.s. I'm still not standing for any skills that reduce ME/TE father than they are. . . Though thinking about it. Any specialization skill would need something that helps that player niche the market on that item. I'd feel much better for "hybrid" skills. Things skilled by the CEO/Directors that effect player corps. A lot of the ideas presented above would work with this. Also, it would help move people from NPC corps, and look for a corp with the play style they want to join in on. Would need a similar system for corps who like focus on the other game "jobs"
xoxo Amarisen Gream |
Matcha Mosburger
Manu Fortius space weaponry and trade
1
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Posted - 2014.07.28 21:10:00 -
[125] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Retar Aveymone wrote:
So clarifying, material requirement reductions are looked down upon?
Generally speaking, cost reductions can be considered as having a lower probability of being implemented, all other things being equal. Ditto anything which requires significant feature work (eg queueing - that's a feature with a skill attached, not a skill modifying an existing number)...........
He said ruling out a skill attaching it a feature. I think the consensus is actually - TE skills suck for people not making massive loads or caps.
Sooo - add Production Queueing, period.
Not as a skill based feature, but a strait feature. This suddenly makes ALL the TE skills suggested relevant and useful for all players.
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Adunh Slavy
1563
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Posted - 2014.07.29 14:49:00 -
[126] - Quote
Cronyism - Gives a small standing bonus to NPC corp and/or faction based on what is built and where.
For Instance: Building a raven at a Caldari NPC corp, would give a 0.005% standing increase to that station's owning corporation and the faction. It would also give negative standings to Gallente faction, in this example.
Building a Domi at that same station would give no bonus of any kind. Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.-á-á- William Pitt |
Eodp Ellecon
Northstar Cabal Tactical Narcotics Team
9
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Posted - 2014.07.30 14:27:00 -
[127] - Quote
The volume aspects of Data Sheets needs to be revisited especially in light of cargo reductions and/or fuel costs.
Their current 1.0 m3 is a little out of line when you consider where minerals, most salvage and Reports are on the order of .01m3
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Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
266
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Posted - 2014.07.30 20:16:00 -
[128] - Quote
Matcha Mosburger wrote: He said ruling out a skill attaching it a feature. I think the consensus is actually - TE skills suck for people not making massive loads or caps.
Sooo - add Production Queueing, period.
Not as a skill based feature, but a strait feature. This suddenly makes ALL the TE skills suggested relevant and useful for all players.
I just realized something which I did not think of before for some reason. With the removal of production efficiency skill (renamed to that adv industry) any character you have is already a perfect builder. Somewhat slower at it than your previous "perfect builder" but hey, who cares. You can now trump quality with quantity.
Granted if you already had all 3 slots per account trained up to be good builders it will not do a lot for you (because adv industry is kinda meh) but because of the limitation of slots it might have not made sense previously in many locations / situations. Now, however, just push them to 10 slots each.
Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... *THWONK!* GOT the bastard. |
Rapscallion Jones
Omnibus Solutions
42
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Posted - 2014.07.31 12:02:00 -
[129] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Hi everyone,
The Advanced Industry skill has been updated to give 3%/level reduction to all industry jobs (ie anything you can do in the industry window, not just building); this should be rolled out to TQ in the next week or so.
This should give *most* people a decent amount of value, but we'd like to give it some additional oomf. We are therefore planning on adding some more advanced industrial skills with AI at 5 as a prereq, so there's clear benefit to everyone in having it trained (plus it would be nice to have some more skills).
We're expecting this discussion to evolve over the coming weeks as the new system settles down and people figure out what bonuses they'd find most valuable. We'd be looking at shipping these changes in one of the two following scheduled releases, depending on how this discussion goes.
So... discuss! What sorts of advanced industry skills would be good?
-Greyscale
**Sticky** - ISD Cyberdyne
Let's face it, the majority of us are not neckbeards living in mom's basement glued to EVE 24/7. Most jobs do not last even a 24 hour cycle so we generally lose game time due to the realities of real life. We have a skill queue, why not a jobs queue.
How about a skill and an advanced skill that at lvl 5/5 grant a jobs queue equal to the max jobs you can have installed. This would not grant additional jobs only a queue. So maxed out you could have 11 jobs running and 11 jobs queued up.
This could have both Science and Manufacturing application. |
iwannadig
Nagibators Inc.
1
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Posted - 2014.07.31 19:02:00 -
[130] - Quote
You removed region boundary for remote job control and this is cool. Now I would like to see a skill that allows players to see market orders +5 systems farther per level.
Also I would like to see manufacturing/science jobs count hardwiring. |
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Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
3355
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Posted - 2014.07.31 22:52:00 -
[131] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Hi everyone,
The Advanced Industry skill has been updated to give 3%/level reduction to all industry jobs (ie anything you can do in the industry window, not just building); this should be rolled out to TQ in the next week or so.
This should give *most* people a decent amount of value, but we'd like to give it some additional oomf. We are therefore planning on adding some more advanced industrial skills with AI at 5 as a prereq, so there's clear benefit to everyone in having it trained (plus it would be nice to have some more skills).
We're expecting this discussion to evolve over the coming weeks as the new system settles down and people figure out what bonuses they'd find most valuable. We'd be looking at shipping these changes in one of the two following scheduled releases, depending on how this discussion goes.
So... discuss! What sorts of advanced industry skills would be good?
-Greyscale
**Sticky** - ISD Cyberdyne
I don't understand. Why are you even bothering with this thread, other than the 3% announcement. Surely the cartels have already told you what skills you will create / modify, so why bother with the charade? |
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
1907
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Posted - 2014.08.01 03:08:00 -
[132] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
I don't understand. Why are you even bothering with this thread, other than the 3% announcement. Surely the cartels have already told you what skills you will create / modify, so why bother with the charade?
CARTELS?!?!?!?! in my EvE harrumph
There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:
Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad. |
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
450
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Posted - 2014.08.01 03:51:00 -
[133] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote: The Advanced Industry skill has been updated to give 3%/level reduction to all industry jobs (ie anything you can do in the industry window, not just building)....
This should give *most* people a decent amount of value, but we'd like to give it some additional oomf.
Actually, as someone who already has this skill at level 5 on my industry main, I think this update is sufficient and needs no further oomf. Thanks, btw.
CCP Greyscale wrote: We are therefore planning on adding some more advanced industrial skills with AI at 5 as a prereq, so there's clear benefit to everyone in having it trained (plus it would be nice to have some more skills).
While I do not personally object to this idea, on behalf of the younger players, I'll say this:
Please keep in mind that adding more skills always further increases the performance gap between older players and younger players, and makes it difficult, if not impossible, for the younger players to catch up and become competitive. This situation tends to discourage attracting new players to the game, too.
It is also very frustrating for younger players, who have to rejuggle their skill queues and attribute mappings, to optimally accommodate the new skills in their training plan. Remember, too, that players only get once-per-year remaps, after the initial ones are used up, and you can't buy them for ISK, nor using PLEX.
Older players, like me, don't have much else to train, so we can just slap the new skills in the queue and be done with them in shortest possible time to further improve our advantage over the younger players. Works out fine for me, but it isn't really fair.
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ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
3302
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Posted - 2014.08.01 18:11:00 -
[134] - Quote
Removed a rumor post. ISD Dorrim Barstorlode Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Captain StringfellowHawk
Forsaken Reavers Rim Worlds Protectorate
145
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Posted - 2014.08.02 04:22:00 -
[135] - Quote
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:Removed a rumor post.
You know when "rumors" start to get removed they are most likely true. *tinfoils* Tons of rumors get posted all the time :P whatever it was gets quickly removed :P |
Orin Zhu
University of Caille Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2014.08.02 09:39:00 -
[136] - Quote
Quoted from a reddit thread :
"We dont want any rough barriers to entry for industry so we've murdered ME behind the wood shed." "Hey guys, we're adding an entire new skill tree with AI-V as a prereq!"
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Emiko Rowna
Aliastra Gallente Federation
12
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Posted - 2014.08.05 05:52:00 -
[137] - Quote
Shin Dari wrote: I am just going to throw out whatever comes to mind, be prepared for some really bad ideas.
...
* Navy Infrigement [small chance to invent a navy faction BPC during T2 invention]
...
Can we find a way to tie standings into this?
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Anthar Thebess
635
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Posted - 2014.08.05 07:52:00 -
[138] - Quote
I'm not industrialist, but will this not make more supers produced faster? Do we really need this?
Why we cannot make this skill bonus something else than speed of new supers introduced into the game. If you relay want to make it affect production time.
1 item produced = no bonus 2 or more items produced = 3% * skill level to Time Efficiency.
This way the stuff that is bad to this game will not be produced much more faster. Support Needed : Jump Fuel Consumption |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
3631
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Posted - 2014.08.05 14:32:00 -
[139] - Quote
Orin Zhu wrote:Quoted from a reddit thread :
"We dont want any rough barriers to entry for industry so we've murdered ME behind the wood shed." "Hey guys, we're adding an entire new skill tree with AI-V as a prereq!"
Material Efficiency (skill) was pretty much a barrier to doing any industry.
I don't see them adding skills which will be required in the same fashion, for doing basic T1 industry.
Greyscale did pretty much say that there would be no ME reductions from skill, for example.
TE reductions aren't required in the same way. you can make the same things, just slower, without it. Woo! CSM 9! http://fuzzwork.enterprises/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
3631
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Posted - 2014.08.05 14:37:00 -
[140] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote:I'm not industrialist, but will this not make more supers produced faster? Do we really need this?
Why we cannot make this skill bonus something else than speed of new supers introduced into the game. If you relay want to make it affect production time.
1 item produced = no bonus 2 or more items produced = 3% * skill level to Time Efficiency.
This way the stuff that is bad to this game will not be produced much more faster.
Just to clarify what the AI skill does.
It doesn't add to the blueprint's TE. It multiplies against it.
So at max levels, it's not a 35% reduction. It's a 32% reduction. Addition reductions (from POS arrays, for example) multiply in as well, so the 25% reduction of a POS doesn't make it a 60% reduction. It makes it a 49% reduction.
Of course, you already have the 20% reduction from Industry, so that takes it to a 59% reduction, rather than a 80% reduction. Woo! CSM 9! http://fuzzwork.enterprises/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
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Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
53
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Posted - 2014.08.05 18:16:00 -
[141] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Orin Zhu wrote:Quoted from a reddit thread :
"We dont want any rough barriers to entry for industry so we've murdered ME behind the wood shed." "Hey guys, we're adding an entire new skill tree with AI-V as a prereq!"
Material Efficiency (skill) was pretty much a barrier to doing any industry. I don't see them adding skills which will be required in the same fashion, for doing basic T1 industry. Greyscale did pretty much say that there would be no ME reductions from skill, for example. TE reductions aren't required in the same way. you can make the same things, just slower, without it.
Which is most of the problem and complaints now. It was a skill you needed at 5 weather you made ammo once a month or if you ran all the slots allowed 24/7.
Now a TE skill doesn't do anything for the guy running a little ammo now and then but it will a really nice boon for those that run all there slots 24/7.
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
3631
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Posted - 2014.08.05 18:29:00 -
[142] - Quote
I'm actually finding it handy for invention.
It's dropping some of the longer runs into a time frame where I can do two per session.
anyway:
Skills which gate basic functionality are bad. (like the learning skills) Skills which gate advanced functionality are fine.
Woo! CSM 9! http://fuzzwork.enterprises/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
54
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Posted - 2014.08.05 18:36:00 -
[143] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Skills which gate basic functionality are bad. (like the learning skills) Skills which gate advanced functionality are fine.
no ones really saying its not. just that the learning skills were refunded instead of turned into some other skill. |
NEONOVUS
Diabolically Sexy Eureka-Secret Science R Us
890
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Posted - 2014.08.05 19:25:00 -
[144] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:I'm actually finding it handy for invention.
It's dropping some of the longer runs into a time frame where I can do two per session.
anyway:
Skills which gate basic functionality are bad. (like the learning skills) Skills which gate advanced functionality are fine.
I fully agree there, love that it now drops a lot of stuff to under 4 hours.
What of skills that add a free level to bps? IE if BP(ME|TE < cap) New_BP_Research = ME|TE + AI_New_Skill_level * % return(New_BP_Research )
That way it dovetails well with all the upsetness about perfect BPS being measured in years for some people, while still allowing for a market for researched BPs |
Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
54
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Posted - 2014.08.05 20:18:00 -
[145] - Quote
NEONOVUS wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:I'm actually finding it handy for invention.
It's dropping some of the longer runs into a time frame where I can do two per session.
anyway:
Skills which gate basic functionality are bad. (like the learning skills) Skills which gate advanced functionality are fine.
I fully agree there, love that it now drops a lot of stuff to under 4 hours. What of skills that add a free level to bps? IE if BP(ME|TE < cap) New_BP_Research = ME|TE + AI_New_Skill_level * % return(New_BP_Research ) That way it dovetails well with all the upsetness about perfect BPS being measured in years for some people, while still allowing for a market for researched BPs
how is this any different than the ME skill? as there are only 10 distinct lvls of ME if it increases by only one ME lv its becomes a required skill for any bp that isn't ME 10. |
Xindi Kraid
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
788
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Posted - 2014.08.06 04:03:00 -
[146] - Quote
I will add my support for a skill (or skills) that lets us queue jobs.
Skills to specialize could be good, but the advantages need to be looked at very closely so that generalists and specialists can still compete somewhat.
Here's an idea: Rapid manufacturing. Let's you add RAM as an input in return for a much larger time reduction.
Efficient construction: Lets you increase the time to manufacture an item, at the end of the job some materials are refunded.
Concurrent manufacturing: Let's you install the same blueprint multiple times (so you can have multiple jobs of the same thing going at once). You still can't make more than the number of max runs though. |
Kale Freeman
Dirt 'n' Glitter I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
29
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Posted - 2014.08.06 07:40:00 -
[147] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:I'm actually finding it handy for invention.
It's dropping some of the longer runs into a time frame where I can do two per session.
anyway:
Skills which gate basic functionality are bad. (like the learning skills) Skills which gate advanced functionality are fine.
I'm not sure that the learning skills gated any functionality. They were just a long train that improved a specific aspect of the game. Specifically they improved the rate at which you gained skillpoints.
There are other similar skills that are a long-ish train that improve specific areas of the game. eg the modified skill that now reduced job times for industry. It simply improves the rate at which you can build/invent/copy/research. The old production efficiency was also simply a sill that improved a specific aspect of the game. If reduced the amount of materials you needed to manufacture something.
None of them actually gate anything.
None of them gate advanced functionality either. They are simply a long train to get to improved performance in some aspect of the game. |
Hakan MacTrew
MUTED VOID Takahashi Alliance
852
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Posted - 2014.08.06 09:52:00 -
[148] - Quote
Xindi Kraid wrote:I will add my support for a skill (or skills) that lets us queue jobs.
Skills to specialize could be good, but the advantages need to be looked at very closely so that generalists and specialists can still compete somewhat.
Here's an idea: Rapid manufacturing. Let's you add RAM as an input in return for a much larger time reduction.
Efficient construction: Lets you increase the time to manufacture an item, at the end of the job some materials are refunded.
Concurrent manufacturing: Let's you install the same blueprint multiple times (so you can have multiple jobs of the same thing going at once). You still can't make more than the number of max runs though. Not sure I like those examples.
Reducing build time at the expense of increased material needs or even isk is fine, but reducing material usage in exchange for increase build time is not something I would support.
Nor could I support the multiple quing of BPC's, (and it would be BPC's, as you can just increase the number of runs from BPO's.) I view the run limitations on BPCs and the need to reinstall jobs manually as an important limiting factor in the industry balanacing process. http://meme-generator.me/media/created/d3r3t8.jpg |
Xindi Kraid
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
788
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Posted - 2014.08.06 10:12:00 -
[149] - Quote
Hakan MacTrew wrote:[quote=Xindi Kraid]
Nor could I support the multiple quing of BPC's, (and it would be BPC's, as you can just increase the number of runs from BPO's.) I view the run limitations on BPCs and the need to reinstall jobs manually as an important limiting factor in the industry balanacing process. As I said, you shouldn't be able to get more runs out of a blueprint just by queuing it multiple times. If you have a blueprint with 5 runs, and you install a 3 run job, you can only then install another 2 run job at which point the BPC is used up. |
Hakan MacTrew
MUTED VOID Takahashi Alliance
852
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Posted - 2014.08.06 10:29:00 -
[150] - Quote
Xindi Kraid wrote:Hakan MacTrew wrote:Nor could I support the multiple quing of BPC's, (and it would be BPC's, as you can just increase the number of runs from BPO's.) I view the run limitations on BPCs and the need to reinstall jobs manually as an important limiting factor in the industry balanacing process. As I said, you shouldn't be able to get more runs out of a blueprint just by queuing it multiple times. If you have a blueprint with 5 runs, and you install a 3 run job, you can only then install another 2 run job at which point the BPC is used up. Yes, but why not just install the full 5 runs in the first place? I see no need to 'stack' jobs in the manner you are suggesting, other than a shortage of materials that could be remedied inbetween runs.
I wouldn't have a problem with materials being used on a 'per run' basis as each run is completed, rather than having all the materials for the build being taken away when the job in installed. http://meme-generator.me/media/created/d3r3t8.jpg |
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