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Mirima Thurander
Deventer Exploration An Acquisition
55
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Posted - 2011.11.21 00:57:00 -
[1] - Quote
did it die off because they hit the end of what ccp has given them? I love the the smell of victory in the morning. It smells like... Blood, vomit and burning flesh. I Like You. I'll Kill You Last. |
Roga Dracor
Mental Disorders Inc. Chained Reactions
1
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Posted - 2011.11.21 01:13:00 -
[2] - Quote
Arek'Jaalan is alive and well, ingame, and via the InterGalactic Summit one forum down.. The system of Eram and the ingame channels are the best means of access. I think several members have expanded to offsite servers, and there are numerous links in here for those interested.. Jowen Datloran, though he eschews Arek'Jaalan, has an excellent background site, as do several others, and there are blogs from Arek'Jaalan members that are probably updated semi-regularly, as well. |
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
118
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Posted - 2011.11.21 08:26:00 -
[3] - Quote
I am both in, and out, of Arek'Jaalan. It is complicated.
Sufficient to say, the IC research is doing splendid, at least on my part. Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook-á |
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
13
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Posted - 2011.11.21 18:48:00 -
[4] - Quote
a lot of people will have used up months or years worth of their own private efforts, putting them into the projects, so a large initial surge then a bit quieter is only to be expected.
there's several ongoing things.
there are also a couple silly things, due to players and disagreements over things, but that no longer matters. |
Myxx
Atropos Group
148
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Posted - 2011.11.21 19:05:00 -
[5] - Quote
Valerie Valate wrote:a lot of people will have used up months or years worth of their own private efforts, putting them into the projects, so a large initial surge then a bit quieter is only to be expected.
there's several ongoing things.
there are also a couple silly things, due to players and disagreements over things, but that no longer matters. Theres also sock puppets using IC 'yer doin it wrong' type crap that makes it largely pointless, IMO. |
Julianus Soter
Moira.
42
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Posted - 2011.11.21 22:13:00 -
[6] - Quote
Except, myxx, you blocked me after I presented a logical argument against the issue that was raised. And then you continued to send me evemails, after that block was put in place. Confusion runs rampant. . . am I a sockpuppet? |
Myxx
Atropos Group
148
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Posted - 2011.11.21 22:49:00 -
[7] - Quote
Julianus Soter wrote:Except, myxx, you blocked me after I presented a logical argument against the issue that was raised. And then you continued to send me evemails, after that block was put in place. Confusion runs rampant. . . am I a sockpuppet?
I actually had you blocked ages ago over another matter entirely seperate. You've been blocked for maybe a couple months now. Unfortunately, mailing lists don't filter people you block. See, unlike others... I -dont- tell them they're being blocked, or why I'll set them red or send mercs after them. I just do it and let them figure it out later on. Thats because I don't need to.
Edit: Telling anyone that I'm going to send mercs after them, or block them or set them to a certain standing or whatever implies that I personally think that we can ever work together on any sort of meaningful level to where talking about something first would do anything worthwhile. This is a fallacy. |
Rhavas
The Corporation of Noble Sentiments Sleeper Social Club
28
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Posted - 2011.11.22 03:11:00 -
[8] - Quote
To the OP:
I suggest visiting Eram when Crucible launches. I think you'll find it worth your while. |
Mal Darkrunner
Zero Tau Research Institute
29
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Posted - 2011.11.24 10:10:00 -
[9] - Quote
I used to enjoy reading the threads about sleepers/rogue drones/EVE backstory in this section of the forum.
Since everybody has switched over to the IC research I find the information much more difficult to access, as I am often unable to distinguish between things that have actually been established/confirmed by CCP or ingame, and the random farout flights of fancy of roleplayers pushing their own versions of events. In other words I find it hard to differentiate between fact and fiction when it comes to Arek'jaalan
Unfortunately I've missed out on most of the live events too (due to being offline or on the other side of the galaxy at the time), and nobody seems to be documenting what happened so I'm in the dark there too |
Aedeal
The Dark Space Initiative Revival Of The Talocan Empire
0
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Posted - 2011.11.26 15:27:00 -
[10] - Quote
Mal Darkrunner wrote:Since everybody has switched over to the IC research I find the information much more difficult to access, as I am often unable to distinguish between things that have actually been established/confirmed by CCP or ingame, and the random farout flights of fancy of roleplayers pushing their own versions of events. In other words I find it hard to differentiate between fact and fiction when it comes to Arek'jaalan
This. Whilst you can make up a really cool story, it's not canon unless CCP say so. Try working off what you can find instead of what your brain makes up.
That and it'd *really* help if CCP actually got their ingame lore correct too. Hull sections come from TALOCAN ships, not Sleepers. |
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Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
125
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Posted - 2011.11.27 00:34:00 -
[11] - Quote
Aedeal wrote: Whilst you can make up a really cool story, it's not canon unless CCP say so. Try working off what you can find instead of what your brain makes up. Ah, but you see, that is the wonderful thing about Arek'Jaalen (at least for me) that it actually highlights that the distinction between "player created" and "CCP created" EVE canon is not as great as many appears to believe. You will see much more of this with the Crucible expansion in a few days where, as example, CPF Blue (mentioned in the Naga ship description) is actually a player created "story". Further, take a look on what I wrote on the Takmahl in the Ancient Races portal page. Is that player or CCP made fiction?
Tricky to tell, I would say, as the references appears to back up what I am saying (at least I hope they do). But maybe I am taking pieces of EVE lore written by different CCP employees at different times and putting them together in what might be the most meaningful way, but also a way the CCP employees never have had a round table discussion about and as such is made up by me.
The only important question is: Will other players run along with your ideas or not? "Amarr victor" was not invented by CCP, as you know.
Aedeal wrote:That and it'd *really* help if CCP actually got their ingame lore correct too. Hull sections come from TALOCAN ships, not Sleepers. I am quite certain that is on purpose. Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook-á |
Roga Dracor
Mental Disorders Inc. Chained Reactions
2
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Posted - 2011.11.27 02:11:00 -
[12] - Quote
I have to agree, such a glaring oversight is hardly likely.. The fact that a wrecked Talocan ship is the source of Sleeper hulls is very telling.. |
Kybernetes Moros
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
0
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Posted - 2011.11.27 14:35:00 -
[13] - Quote
As regards the hull section, for me, it's something I just step around, for the time being -- it's too close to something that could be a simple typo to make me comfortable with using it as a source of information.
The simplest thing would be for Dropbear or another dev to confirm if it's intentional or just an oversight when they were writing up the item descriptions here, if they haven't already and I've just missed it. >_>
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Aedeal
The Dark Space Initiative Revival Of The Talocan Empire
0
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Posted - 2011.11.28 12:27:00 -
[14] - Quote
Jowen Datloran wrote:Ah, but you see, that is the wonderful thing about Arek'Jaalen (at least for me) that it actually highlights that the distinction between "player created" and "CCP created" EVE canon is not as great as many appears to believe.
Not exactly where I was going with it. The fleshing out of CCP backstory by players is great, it's the 'I'm gonna introduce a story-changing-device right here' that I don't agree with. I'll agree entirely that EVE canon is a mess, we can help sort it out, and we should do, but we shouldn't *add* new mechanics. The research project on the Trinary data almost crosses that line. Whilst it is one of *the* best RP documents I have seen around, I feel it is a little to 'proclaiming' for being a player-not-dev document. It does include a disclaimer at the end, but it just makes me a little uneasy. Documents of such excellent design crop up so rarely that you'd hope CCP Lore team (once over the patch and stuff) would be able to read them and give it a yes/change things answer. Maybe I'm just dreaming.
A hard-core example of the player/canon dispute would be a person claiming to say how stargates work. Something that fundamental should really be stamped from CCP, even if a player wrote it.
TLDR: Anything that adds anything new and affects the story/game situation should be stamped by CCP, regardless of how impressive it is. |
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CCP Abraxas
C C P C C P Alliance
2
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Posted - 2011.11.28 15:31:00 -
[15] - Quote
Aedeal wrote:TLDR: Anything that adds anything new and affects the story/game situation should be stamped by CCP, regardless of how impressive it is. Speaking of that big rubber stamp:
The Fiction Portal on the EVElopedia will be the official canon repository, and as such it'll be locked. People will be able to add comments in the Discussion tabs on respective pages, but will not be able to alter the content of the pages themselves.
Dropbear and I have talked about setting up a kind of transition process, where player-created (or player-influenced) lore that crops up in Arek'Jaalan or the like will eventually, through some kind of filtration, be absorbed by the Fiction Portal and as such become official canon. Not all of it, but the parts that we like and can fit into our own plans.
That being said, I would ask people to bear in mind (and point out to other people) that both Dropbear and I are essentially working within storytelling systems that we're also actively developing. The Fiction Portal certainly isn't going to contain every piece of lore that you may have heard of through the years, either because it hasn't yet been written up or, just as likely, because it was never official lore to begin with and may even conflict with our own plans.
We're having lots of fun, and we've got plans for a number of other things once Dropbear gets his ass over to the freezing tundra of Iceland. |
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Mirima Thurander
Sarajevo Syndicate True Reign
72
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Posted - 2011.11.28 19:34:00 -
[16] - Quote
CCP Abraxas wrote:Aedeal wrote:TLDR: Anything that adds anything new and affects the story/game situation should be stamped by CCP, regardless of how impressive it is. Speaking of that big rubber stamp: The Fiction Portal on the EVElopedia will be the official canon repository, and as such it'll be locked. People will be able to add comments in the Discussion tabs on respective pages, but will not be able to alter the content of the pages themselves. Dropbear and I have talked about setting up a kind of transition process, where player-created (or player-influenced) lore that crops up in Arek'Jaalan or the like will eventually, through some kind of filtration, be absorbed by the Fiction Portal and as such become official canon. Not all of it, but the parts that we like and can fit into our own plans. That being said, I would ask people to bear in mind (and point out to other people) that both Dropbear and I are essentially working within storytelling systems that we're also actively developing. The Fiction Portal certainly isn't going to contain every piece of lore that you may have heard of through the years, either because it hasn't yet been written up or, just as likely, because it was never official lore to begin with and may even conflict with our own plans. We're having lots of fun, and we've got plans for a number of other things once Dropbear gets his ass over to the freezing tundra of Iceland.
i read alot of this talk by ccp about the lore as a - yea we are making this lore up and we got YEARS worth but we just keep forgetting to post it up for you guys, and ever time we do thinking about posting it up we think of something new to add and get side tracked writing it down and expanding on it.
but that's just me I love the the smell of victory in the morning. It smells like... Blood, vomit and burning flesh. I Like You. I'll Kill You Last. |
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
137
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Posted - 2011.11.28 19:41:00 -
[17] - Quote
I am so excited to learn more about the Fiction Portal; will it make my Lorebook redundant or will it be something else*?
And yes, people should be aware that the whole story of EVE, either future or past, has not been written yet. And while it is Abraxas and Dropbears job to keep the story in line it is impossible for them to cover every inch and corner of New Eden since the closure of the EVE Gate until now. This is where players can ship in with their stuff.
*: You seem to be hinting that it will contain player written, but CCP approved, content as one thing. Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook-á |
Aedeal
The Dark Space Initiative Revival Of The Talocan Empire
0
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Posted - 2011.11.30 20:58:00 -
[18] - Quote
I asked Hilen earlier:
A blunt question: What is the Arek'Jaalan event about? Are we uncovering a story laid out by the team, or are we writing the story as we uncover it?
For example, take the results of the Trinary data analysis. A very interesting read, but they made the entire thing up. Is this Arek'Jaalan, players writing the outcome based on what they think, or not?
I hate to even ask but: Is there a CCP-defined answer to why everything is as it is in Anoikis? Is there an answer to the project?
I don't like not knowing what we're aiming at... makes the entire thing seem like we're just waiting for something to happen. |
Kyoko Sakoda
Veto. Veto Corp
19
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Posted - 2011.11.30 21:02:00 -
[19] - Quote
Content bears best bears. |
Aethlyn
51
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Posted - 2011.11.30 23:21:00 -
[20] - Quote
Aedeal wrote:I asked Hilen earlier:
A blunt question: What is the Arek'Jaalan event about? Are we uncovering a story laid out by the team, or are we writing the story as we uncover it?
It's the latter. Or, to be more specific: As far as I know it's an open/unwritten story with general hints on what they plan/or might want to introduce, but the generic scope and progress is solely defined by player interactions and their decisions.
E.g. today there've been several attacks on ships operating/working on the site, while other players tried to defend them. It's been less about "pew pew" or action - and also there wasn't much of story progress, but it's still been fun for me (and others as well probably). Looking for more thoughts? Read my blog or follow me on Twitter. |
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Mirima Thurander
Sarajevo Syndicate True Reign
75
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Posted - 2011.12.01 00:05:00 -
[21] - Quote
Aethlyn wrote:Aedeal wrote:I asked Hilen earlier:
A blunt question: What is the Arek'Jaalan event about? Are we uncovering a story laid out by the team, or are we writing the story as we uncover it? It's the latter. Or, to be more specific: As far as I know it's an open/unwritten story with general hints on what they plan/or might want to introduce, but the generic scope and progress is solely defined by player interactions and their decisions. E.g. today there've been several attacks on ships operating/working on the site, while other players tried to defend them. It's been less about "pew pew" or action - and also there wasn't much of story progress, but it's still been fun for me (and others as well probably).
i was there it was some guy going on about the belonging to the nation and the lack of security
side note that orca it got blown up ( and so did all the media ships and alot of the mini guard ships ) I love the the smell of victory in the morning. It smells like... Blood, vomit and burning flesh. I Like You. I'll Kill You Last. |
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
152
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Posted - 2011.12.01 08:10:00 -
[22] - Quote
There were actually an incident before that, Mirima, where minutes old characters (one in a Raven and another in a Crow) attacked Site One only to warp off along the path of the off-line acceleration gate and then self-destruct both ships and pods. Clearly CCP characters but very weird behavior. Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook-á |
Aedeal
The Dark Space Initiative Revival Of The Talocan Empire
0
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Posted - 2011.12.01 09:52:00 -
[23] - Quote
Aethlyn wrote:Aedeal wrote:I asked Hilen earlier:
A blunt question: What is the Arek'Jaalan event about? Are we uncovering a story laid out by the team, or are we writing the story as we uncover it? It's the latter. Or, to be more specific: As far as I know it's an open/unwritten story with general hints on what they plan/or might want to introduce, but the generic scope and progress is solely defined by player interactions and their decisions. E.g. today there've been several attacks on ships operating/working on the site, while other players tried to defend them. It's been less about "pew pew" or action - and also there wasn't much of story progress, but it's still been fun for me (and others as well probably).
That's the 'Arek'Jaalan site' story, I'm referring specifically to the Sleeper/Talocan mystery. Cos to be totally frank, if there is no CCP-written backstory to this, I give up right here right now, cos only the people that shout the loudest about how their ideas are right will get listened to by CCP. Don't stop the RP protests, random killings etc, I love reading bout that, but I like the detective work of the Sleeper/Talocan problem. Unless it's not detective work, just having to make something up and shout my mouth off full blast. That sucks.
TLDR: If there's not an actual CCP answer to what happened, loudest shouter wins, event is sucky. |
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
152
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Posted - 2011.12.01 10:56:00 -
[24] - Quote
I know what you are getting at, Aedeal, because I have been there myself. I actually started to dislike the old Sleeper discussions threads because they consisted mostly of people coming up with one crazy theory after another which very often contradicted known prime fiction. But in their defense, they properly were not aware of this prime fiction as a lot of it is hidden in mission descriptions and site descriptions within the game. Hence, I am trying to make that lore a bit more accessible through the Lorebook. CCP Dropbear picked up on the issue too and that is what A'J is all about; collecting all the pieces and sort them in a central register so people know where to look. And through that, convert our OOC knowledge to IC.
Still, A'J suffered some initial confusion about what its purpose was among its participants. Some thought it was some sort of power block, similarly to an alliance of corporations, rising and rushed to secure themselves positions in, what they thought, would be the directing and leading organs (the Ethical Committee and Security Divisions). Now those two divisions have gone nearly completely inactive.
Another issue is the people who thought that A'J would be a way to get verification to your personal theory from the Storyline team thereby skipping the work it requires to find the supporting prime fiction yourself. People failed to realize that the game was not about thinking up a research project and wait for others to provide the results, but to actually have an idea what the outcome of your project would be. One of the things I learned from my PhD was that you do not do a scientific project without some idea what the outcome will be. In other words, "if you donGÇÖt know what youGÇÖre looking for, youGÇÖll not find anything."
Of course, demanding that people have a PhD to do fictional science is a bit steep, but I think A'J has potential as long as people remembers to make it clear for themselves and others what their theory is based upon. And if that is Wikipedia alone we are not going to be good friends. AhemGǪ In general people should realize the power of using strong references for their arguments.
There is no final written CCP backstory to this, that is clear to me now. Instead I, and others, can take what it written so far and build upon it for, what the evidence suggests, would be the most likely outcome. Is the Jove Empire in recession? I say it is.
Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook-á |
Aedeal
The Dark Space Initiative Revival Of The Talocan Empire
0
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Posted - 2011.12.01 18:27:00 -
[25] - Quote
Well then you have the challenge of working out which bits of CCP lore should make the transition from the old to the new! |
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
155
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Posted - 2011.12.01 20:15:00 -
[26] - Quote
It is indeed a challenge and sadly many people find it very hard to put together a theory IC. It is just my wish they would try and it would be my pleasure to help finding supportive (and/or contradicting) PF material for their hypothesis, if they wish. Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook-á |
Aethlyn
54
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Posted - 2011.12.02 09:56:00 -
[27] - Quote
Aedeal wrote:That's the 'Arek'Jaalan site' story, I'm referring specifically to the Sleeper/Talocan mystery. Cos to be totally frank, if there is no CCP-written backstory to this, I give up right here right now, cos only the people that shout the loudest about how their ideas are right will get listened to by CCP. Don't stop the RP protests, random killings etc, I love reading bout that, but I like the detective work of the Sleeper/Talocan problem. Unless it's not detective work, just having to make something up and shout my mouth off full blast. That sucks.
TLDR: If there's not an actual CCP answer to what happened, loudest shouter wins, event is sucky.
No, you misunderstood it. It's not THAT open. There are specific goals and results defined by CCP but how/when to get there seems to be up to players. E.g. right now players should gather ore samples from different systems all over New Eden. It's not like some people will sit there and say "okay, now we just discovered the devastating 2000mm Large Ultra-Heavy Repeating Artillery that will shred any Amarr capital ships to pieces within seconds. Look on the wikies, there are defined goals for (probably meant to be) ship modules and stuff. The question isn't "what to get", but it's "how and when to get" as well as "what happened". Or as another example, to speak of previous expansions and such. This time you don't get told some captain rammed his carrier into a station. This time you decide if he'll succeed or he'll be shot down before (although there are still some issues regarding security as mentioned before). Looking for more thoughts? Read my blog or follow me on Twitter. |
Mirima Thurander
Sarajevo Syndicate True Reign
76
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Posted - 2011.12.02 16:24:00 -
[28] - Quote
Aethlyn wrote:[quote=Aedeal] Look on the wikies, there are defined goals for (probably meant to be) ship modules and stuff
link plz
i'm in no way sifting through the Wiki pages of random not working or not there links.
I love the the smell of victory in the morning. It smells like... Blood, vomit and burning flesh. I Like You. I'll Kill You Last. |
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
14
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Posted - 2011.12.02 16:43:00 -
[29] - Quote
Myxx wrote:Valerie Valate wrote:a lot of people will have used up months or years worth of their own private efforts, putting them into the projects, so a large initial surge then a bit quieter is only to be expected.
there's several ongoing things.
there are also a couple silly things, due to players and disagreements over things, but that no longer matters. Theres also sock puppets using IC 'yer doin it wrong' type crap that makes it largely pointless, IMO.
Nope. |
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
156
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Posted - 2011.12.02 21:34:00 -
[30] - Quote
Mirima Thurander wrote:Aethlyn wrote:Look on the wikies, there are defined goals for (probably meant to be) ship modules and stuff link plz i'm in no way sifting through the Wiki pages of random not working or not there links.
I must remember you that the Arek'Jaalan Mission Statement explicitly states the project does little to dig into the applied side of science and certainly has not aims at providing new weaponry for starships. Dropbear (in the shape of Dr. Tukoss) has further commented that A'J is not about producing blueprints for new technologies. Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook-á |
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