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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
688
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Posted - 2014.08.06 15:00:00 -
[1] - Quote
Necharo Rackham wrote:There will be far fewer incoming connections from k-space, as more people will warp the wormhole, look at what space is on the other side, and choose not to jump through.
This will reduce the connectedness of w-space more generally.
A valid point - I guess adding some kind of timer that eventually spawns it anyhow would make this work in both directions - reducing the time someone has to respond to a new k162 if its being used as a means for hunting targets but without impacting on the connectivity aspect if its not immediately used as a tool for pvp.
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Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
691
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Posted - 2014.08.06 16:16:00 -
[2] - Quote
Axloth Okiah wrote:Yes BUT give them short timer (10-20 minutes) after which the K162 side spawns anyway, regardless of being jumped through or even had a warp initiated to. Otherwise we will end up with massive amounts of unspawned holes. It would also fix already existing issue with people leaving their holes unspawned when farming.
Warping to one should start a timer upon which the k162 side is spawned anyway - but automatically spawning the k162 side does not change the farming aspect as people will just mass down their static and leave it critical and bubbled to farm.
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Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
699
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Posted - 2014.08.08 23:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
Alundil wrote: We're arguing against CCP's initial bear friendly idea of never spawn a K162 unless the hole is jumped. How you mistake that for "risk averse PvPers" is beyond me. We'd rather the wh spawn just as it does now. Otherwise (and as proposed) it IS a safer thing for the bears as they don't run the risk of opening holes they don't want to open).
Good grief.
I don't think it was CCP's intention that k162s never opened unless jumped I believe they just either omitted to add further information on the dev blog as to the nature of those mechanics or hadn't got that far along the development of the feature yet to have a method in mind (or decided on a specific solution). |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
705
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Posted - 2014.08.11 13:28:00 -
[4] - Quote
Lando Cenvax wrote:I can just agree with most People here stating that it's not thought trough.
A wormhole is connection between 2 Systems. That's fact. And as Laurent mentioned above, having a Door visible only from one side is a stupid idea. That's against any logic and is neither a technical requirement by the game-engine nor balances gameplay.
Proposed Change: If you spawn a wormhole (as soon as it appears on discovery scanner): spawn it simultaneosly on both sides. Then both sides are in exactly the same situation. That's fair. Additionally, remove the information from WH-info-window regarding the system at the other end. That makes things more interesting for everyone. Also remove the WH-Name like N123. If you scan down a wormhole, you should have to dive in to get intel, not just easily warp to it.
Also make Wormholes even easier/harder (than it is now) to scan depending on their Source/Destination: Highsec: easy going Low-Sec & C1/C2: normal (Standard frig & Basic skills) Null-Sec & C3/C4: requires some serious skills and faction probes or a scanner frig C5: requires some serious skills AND a scanner frig (or maxed out skill) C6: requires really high skills, scanner frig and proper Equipment (faction-probes, scan-Arrays in midslot). Whatever (Source or Destination) is harder to scan determines the signature-size of both ends of the wormhole. Again, both sides are in the same situation when it comes to scanning it down.
The experienced scanner would probably be able to estimate Destination System by the signature-size of the anomaly. That's a Feature, not a bug.
The fallacy is seeing wormholes as a door - until someone uses it its not a door just a quantum level anomaly which then spawns the wormhole when interacted with.
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Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
709
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Posted - 2014.08.13 15:24:00 -
[5] - Quote
Axloth Okiah wrote:Why not fix the "isolation problem" right away and simply spawn both sides of every hole after a short timer? This change and multi-hour timers lean very heavily towards making isolating oneself even more effective. It is more than enough time to farm all your home sites and you, instead of fixing the problem of people shutting themselves off, introduce additional timer on top of that to provide even longer window of near-total safety (as the chances of getting rolled into are negligible as opposed to being found by people scouting their chain).
Whats the reasoning behind 7+ hours? How is that going to help promote conflict and interaction between players if anyone can simply choose to not have a wormhole spawn for so many hours? Unless you intend to increase the amount of random connections more than 10-fold, this will lead to shorter and more barren chains full of invisible and unspawned connections.
The slightly shorter early warning will not offset that either, as that problem lies in the overlay itself, not the K162 spawning mechanics. If you want to fix the early warning problem, simply introduce a short timer (tens of minutes, not hours) during which freshly spawned WH sigs will not show up on the overlay and need to be manually scanned. After the timer is over, they will autopopulate as they do now. This will give gankers their time window to kill farmers who dont pay attention, without ruining the convenience of Odyssey changes.
But thats a different issue. It seems to me you have a perfect opportunity to elegantly fix the isolation issue, but instead you are trying to fix a different problem using a wrong tool for the job, while making the isolation even worse as a side-effect.
This does to a degree "fix" the isolation problem as if someone opens into you mid site then you have far less of a chance to get everything safe before the potential hostiles are in a position to attack you, forced spawning of the k162 side - beyond a safeguard to make sure that it is spawned eventually if someone interacts with the outgoing side - won't fix anything as people won't collapse their statics but just mass them to as low mass as possible instead which just as effectively isolates them.
Would be nice if there was some delay on the k162 showing on the overlay though (should always be probable from the moment it first exists).
The better way to approach this problem IMO is to incentivise people to have their static open and not massed if I was really evil I'd suggest that escalations don't spawn if the static is unspawned :D but that wouldn't help with lower class wormholes and I dislike changes which effectively take away a current reward mechanism. Maybe add some random extra value spawns to waves if the static is health similar to the way you get random Angel Overseer spawns on some level 4 missions, etc. |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
709
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Posted - 2014.08.13 15:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote: This will cut out the need for the null scanner to go get his tengu/ishtar and farm the lower class wh and for the higher class wh it will cut out the need to type tales of the danger in the intel channels and the need to avoid the now dangerous wh containing system.
Thats an interesting point and also raises an interesting counter point - assuming currently when a null scout scans down a C5/6 and reports it back to intel it changes a bit what happens as now its not immediately a threat (assuming they know no one has spawned the other side) and it could be hours later that it actually connects with a lot more random outcome as to what happens as it would long ago have fallen off the bottom of relevancy in the intel channels.
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