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Amy Utama
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 03:16:00 -
[1] - Quote
Capital Mining Barge - Bahamut
I have put a very large amount of thought in to this to make it balanced and fair.
DO NOT POST HERE IF YOU HAVE NOT READ THE WHOLE POST.
Slots 6 high / 6 Med / 6 low Structure hp: 125,000 Resists: EM: 0% / Thermal: 0% / Kinetic: 0% / Explosive: 0% Armor hp: 100,000 Resists: EM: 50% / Thermal: 45% / Kinetic: 25% / Explosive: 10% Shield hp: 150,000 Resists: EM: 0% / Thermal: 20% / Kinetic: 40% / Explosive: 50%
Capacity: 25,000 - Cannot hole ore or minerals Drone bay (combat): 300 m3 Combat Drone bandwidth: 250 Mbit/s [max of 5 combat drones out] Drone bay (Mining): 50,000 m3 {will be explained down below} Mass: 1,430,000,000 kg Volume: 25,350,000.0 m3 (2,500,000,0 m3 Packaged) Inertia Modifier:0.04 x Ore Hold Capacity: 1,000,000 m3
Capacitor Capacity: 65,000 Capacitor Recharge time: 5,000 s
Targeting: Maximum Targeting Range: 125 km Maximum Targets Locked: 5 Signature Radius: 6,000 m Scan Resolution (non asteroid): 40 mm Scan Resolution (asteroid): 1200 mm Sensor Strength (Magnetometric): 120
Fleet Hanger Capacity: 40,000 - Mining Crystals only
Jump Dive Systems Jump Drive Capacitor Need: 95% (canGÇÖt be reduced in any way) Maximum Jump Range: 4.5 ly Jump Drive Fuel Need: Oxygen Isotopes Jump Drive Consumption Amount: 2,000 units Fuel Bay Capacity: 20,000 m3 Maximum Velocity: 55 m/sec Ship Warp Speed: 1.25 AU/S Stats subject to change depending on CCP if put into game (posable never say never)
You have noticed this ship had no Ship Maintenance Bay or Fitting service
This Capital Ship can fit a Industrial Jump Generator it allows non jump capable Mining ships to be moved in Bulk.
The Industrial Jump Generator has the same required skills as the Jump Portal Generator that the titan uses. It Functions different it expands the ships Jump Drive Field to bring other ships with it. only the following ships will be allowed to be carried: Orca Hulk Covetor Mackinaw Retriever Skiff Procurer Prospect Venture
Read this carefully: 1: The Following stats are for a character with the
BEST POSSIBLE BOOSTER WITH THE BEST IMPLANTS AND BEST SKILLS FOR BOTH THE BOOSTER AND MINER!!!!
Capital Strip Miner: Capacity: 40 m3 (1 capital crystal) Activation Cost: 300 Gj Optimal Range: 50 km Activation Time / Duration: 180 s Mining Amount (keep in mind above statement): 9,000 m3 {3,000 m3 per min} Required Mining Crystal Size: Large (40 m3 each) Requires Industrial Reactor: 1 - Per Capital Strip miner *When Activated Links with 1 non activated Industrial Reactor and activates the Reactor*
Fitting: High Power Slot CPU: 125 tf 130,000 MW
Skill requirements Capital Strip Miner Level 1 (allows activation of 1 Per Skill Level) Mining Level 5 Deep Core Mining Level 5 Capital Mining Crystal: Same basic skills as Tech 2 but require all processing skills to level 5
Industrial Reactor: Allows activation of 1 Capital Strip Miner per Industrial Reactor. Redirects power from the drive system to the strip miner
Industrial Reactor: Low Slot Capacity: 300 m3 Activation Cost: 1 x Gallente Fuel Block Activation Time / Duration: 10 minutes Reduces ship acceleration: 20% Per Reactor (does not reduce ships max speed) Increases align time: 20% Per Reactor *5 reactors running makes the ship immobile*
Skill Requirements: Industrial Reactor Level 1 Industrial Reconfiguration Level 4 Advanced Mass Production Level 4 Mass Production Level 4 Industry Level 3
Capital Mining Barge Skill Requirements Capital Mining Barge Level 1 Exhumers Level 5 Capital Ships Level 5 Astrogeology Level 5 Science Level 5 Mining Level 5 Industry Level 5 Spaceship Command Level 5 Mining Frigate Level 5 Jump Drive Operation Level 5 Jump Drive Calibration Level 4 Jump Fuel Conservation Level 4
Industrial Mining Bore Old Fighter Drones that have been converted for mining
Structure hp: 2,000 Resists: EM: 0% / Thermal: 0% / Kinetic: 0% / Explosive: 0% Armor hp: 1,250 Resists: EM: 50% / Thermal: 45% / Kinetic: 25% / Explosive: 10% Shield hp: 1,500 Resists: EM: 0% / Thermal: 20% / Kinetic: 40% / Explosive: 50%
Capacity: 2,000 Mass: 12,000 kg Volume: 5,000 m3 Inertia Modifier: 100 x
Capacitor Capacity: 1 gj Capacitor Recharge time: 1,000 s
Targeting: Optimal Range: 5,000 m Maximum Targeting Range: 125 km Maximum Targets Locked: 2 Signature Radius: 100 m Scan Resolution (non asteroid): 200 mm Sensor Strength (Magnetometric): 25 Maximum Velocity: 1,000 m/sec Activation Time / Duration: 60 s Mining Amount: 200 m3 Bandwidth Needed 250 Mbit/sec
Industrial Mining Bore Skill Requirements Industrial Mining Bore Level 1 Leadership Level 5 Drones Level 5 Drone Interfacing Level 5 Mining Level 5 Mining Drone Operation Level 5 Drone Avionics Level 5 Advanced Drone Avionics Level 5
Capital Mining Barge Traits
Mining Barge Bonuses (Per Skill Level) 5% Bonus to Strip Miner Range 5% Reduction to Strip Miner Duration 5% Bonus to Ship Ore Hold Capacity
Exhumers Bonuses (Per Skill Level) 5% Bonus to Shield Resistances 5% Reduction to Strip Miner Duration 5% Bonus to Capacitor Recharge
Role Bonus 100% Bonus to Drone Damage and Mining Amount 900% bonus to Survey Scanners Range Can Fit Capital Strip Miners Can Fit Industrial Reactor Can Fit Industrial Jump Generator Can Use Industrial Mining Bore |
Shederov Blood
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1401
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 03:23:00 -
[2] - Quote
Amy Utama wrote:DO NOT POST HERE IF YOU HAVE NOT READ THE WHOLE POST. POSTING TO LET YOU KNOW I'M NOT READING ALL OF THAT |
Komi Toran
Paragon Trust The Bastion
167
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 03:26:00 -
[3] - Quote
Basically obsoletes barges and exhumers. And everything else that's wrong with it. Not supported. |
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
1343
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 03:33:00 -
[4] - Quote
No. There really should be a thread with frequently proposed stupid ideas in it... oh wait, there is.
L2Search please. |
Amy Utama
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 03:35:00 -
[5] - Quote
Komi Toran wrote:Basically obsoletes barges and exhumers. And everything else that's wrong with it. Not supported.
If by that you are mean it wont take someone a dozen or more accounts and a 200 man corp, to build stuff then these ships have bin obsolete for a very very long time |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
5896
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 03:36:00 -
[6] - Quote
*looks at OP*
Why? Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
"How did you veterans start?" |
Komi Toran
Paragon Trust The Bastion
167
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 03:40:00 -
[7] - Quote
Amy Utama wrote:If by that you are mean it wont take someone a dozen or more accounts and a 200 man corp, to build stuff then these ships have bin obsolete for a very very long time By that I mean every isoboxed mining alt will be trained into these monstrosities, collapsing the price of minerals even further and trivializing the amount of minerals all the size-limited high-sec miners can produce.
And as I only have a single account and make my billions of ISK building stuff while mining most of the minerals I need in a few hours time, your statement is wrong. |
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ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
3315
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 03:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
Removed an off topic post. ISD Dorrim Barstorlode Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Amy Utama
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 04:05:00 -
[9] - Quote
Komi Toran wrote:Amy Utama wrote:If by that you are mean it wont take someone a dozen or more accounts and a 200 man corp, to build stuff then these ships have bin obsolete for a very very long time By that I mean every isoboxed mining alt will be trained into these monstrosities, collapsing the price of minerals even further and trivializing the amount of minerals all the size-limited high-sec miners can produce. And as I only have a single account and make my billions of ISK building stuff while mining most of the minerals I need in a few hours time, your statement is wrong. you may be right about the mulity boxers but the mass of this ship is conciderably larger thay the currently largest dockable ship Amarr Dread witch is 18,500,000 m3 this may fall into the not able to dock cadagory at 25,350,000 m3 as of yet CCP has not sait how much is the max allowable mass to be able to dock this may fall into the able to dock range and i would be happy with that |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
2423
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 04:34:00 -
[10] - Quote
I feel like ... we have this ship. It's a big ship. It's expensive. It's an industrial capital ship and right now it has no useful reason to even exist.
This ship.. this .. useless capital industrial, this ... Rorqual ... it needs a total and complete redesign much more than we need a new ORE capital. |
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
8819
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 04:42:00 -
[11] - Quote
Why would you give a freaking Mining Barge a name like that? Bahamut, the three headed dragon god, is not a flippin' industrial ship. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Komi Toran
Paragon Trust The Bastion
167
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 05:33:00 -
[12] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Bahamut, the three headed dragon god... Bahamut is neither a dragon nor a god. In mythology it is a big fish that supports the Earth, not so much like Atlas though as like A'Tuin. As such, it's a reasonable name for an industrial ship.
::Lights a copy of Final Fantasy MMCXVI-or-whatever-the-hell-they're-up-to-right-now on fire and walks away::
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
8821
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 05:37:00 -
[13] - Quote
Komi Toran wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Bahamut, the three headed dragon god... Bahamut is neither a dragon nor a god. In mythology it is a big fish that supports the Earth, not so much like Atlas though as like A'Tuin. As such, it's a reasonable name for an industrial ship. ::Lights a copy of Final Fantasy MMCXVI-or-whatever-the-hell-they're-up-to-right-now on fire and walks away::
Oh, I was not referring to Final Fantasy, but to Dungeons and Dragons instead. Not a bad guess though. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Komi Toran
Paragon Trust The Bastion
167
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 05:41:00 -
[14] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Oh, I was not referring to Final Fantasy, but to Dungeons and Dragons instead. Not a bad guess though. Bahamut, the platinum dragon, has a single head in D&D. Tiamat, his sister, has five. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
8821
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 05:49:00 -
[15] - Quote
Komi Toran wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Oh, I was not referring to Final Fantasy, but to Dungeons and Dragons instead. Not a bad guess though. Bahamut, the platinum dragon, has a single head in D&D. Tiamat, his sister, has five. Edit: To be more on topic, Atlas would be the better name for such a thing, as ORE is Gallentean and the Gallente seem to have a thing for Greek mythology. (Thanatos, Lachesis, Keres, etc.)
Bahamut has numerous interpretations, actually. Tiamat they have been fairly consistent with, but I have at least two ancient sourcebooks in my attic somewhere that show Bahamut with three heads. It's the version I have always preferred, as it looks badass.
Ever since 3rd? Yes, he has one head. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
12711
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 06:09:00 -
[16] - Quote
The more you mine the less isk you earn per rock. People seem to forget this fact when they ask for bigger mining ships. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Komi Toran
Paragon Trust The Bastion
167
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 06:11:00 -
[17] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:It's the version I have always preferred, as it looks badass. Sigh. Unfortunately, the wrongness of this statement is best explored on the playground, not the sandbox. |
Amy Utama
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 07:47:00 -
[18] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:I feel like ... we have this ship. It's a big ship. It's expensive. It's an industrial capital ship and right now it has no useful reason to even exist.
This ship.. this .. useless capital industrial, this ... Rorqual ... it needs a total and complete redesign much more than we need a new ORE capital.
yes it is useless now and all most ppl ever did with it was hide it in a pos deployed throwing boosts 99.9% of its use the 0.1 was compressing or anything else this has a use it can mine, move mining vessels in a grp. now if you wouldnt mind please remember [url]https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=6341&find=unread[/url]
I am open to working with the community to making this Fair and useful but not OP I have tried to aim for that at least. its has by far more detail and effort put into it then any other of similar discussion not 1 has even close to this level of detail all they want is massive amounts of ore. granted this give more ore then a hulk but it has high requirements as well as huge draw backs for 1 its bigger then a dread its size is massive
I ask you to work with me not just try and aggravate me for actually putting the effort in.
maybe i'm asking to much from the eve community...................... |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2095
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 08:02:00 -
[19] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:*looks at OP*
Why?
My thoughts exactly. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Amy Utama
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 08:47:00 -
[20] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:ShahFluffers wrote:*looks at OP*
Why? My thoughts exactly.
Interesting I ask for input and help but i get one liners on "its op"
How it it op? where is it op? why do you think its op? How can it be improved?
Quote:Please, read the forum rules, and pay attention to them. If you don't like someone's idea, please remember to post with respect towards fellow players at all times and remain constructive.
Thus a couple ground rules: 1) This is a breeding ground for ideas. If someone has an idea, listen to it. If you don't like it, think about why. Constructive feedback is good. Posting "That's an awful idea," is not constructive.
2) This is not a forum for known issues. There are links above to the forums that deal with those. If you have an idea of how to improve an issue, that is one thing. If you are simply pointing out flaws and shortcomings, it is not a feature or idea.
3) Please put some information regarding your idea in the topic. Topics named things like "An idea" or "Does anybody think...." will be renamed.
4) This is for Features and Ideas - not simple requests. Threads like "I want XXX module. Give it to me now," are not constructive. Please put some ideas into it, even if it's just a suggestion or two to spark a thread.
Real input I have already made changes to this suggestions is that too much to ask |
|
Tabyll Altol
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
13
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 09:24:00 -
[21] - Quote
Don-¦t you think 0.0 is the most secure Place in New Eden for Miners anyway ?
Why should they get bigger ships to mine even more, the don-¦t need some more buffs.
To the Ship stats:
1.250.000,00 m-¦ Ore at Lv V is way to much. should be reduced to 125.000,00 m-¦.
3k m-¦ for each Mininglaser and minute is too much should be reduced to 2k m-¦ would be 10k m-¦/min at skill level 5
Reduces ship acceleration: 20% Per Reactor (does not reduce ships max speed) Increases align time: 20% Per Reactor
would change the 5 reactors change to something similar than the siege of the dreads. This "mining siege" have to be active to use the mininglaser and needs fuel the cycletime of 10 min is okay.
If more than one of this sieges will be activated both Miningships will get a drawback like with the modules, so "multiboxer" wouldn-¦t have such a easytime.
Scan Resolution (asteroid): 1200 mm doesen-¦t make sense, so would take this away and change the max targets to 7 instead.
But before something like this should even be thought of implemented, remove the local in 0.0.
mg |
Lugia3
Intentionally Dense Easily Excited
1129
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 09:25:00 -
[22] - Quote
Amy Utama wrote:Komi Toran wrote:Amy Utama wrote:If by that you are mean it wont take someone a dozen or more accounts and a 200 man corp, to build stuff then these ships have bin obsolete for a very very long time By that I mean every isoboxed mining alt will be trained into these monstrosities, collapsing the price of minerals even further and trivializing the amount of minerals all the size-limited high-sec miners can produce. And as I only have a single account and make my billions of ISK building stuff while mining most of the minerals I need in a few hours time, your statement is wrong. you may be right about the mulity boxers but the mass of this ship is conciderably larger thay the currently largest dockable ship Amarr Dread witch is 18,500,000 m3 this may fall into the not able to dock cadagory at 25,350,000 m3 as of yet CCP has not sait how much is the max allowable mass to be able to dock this may fall into the able to dock range and i would be happy with that
There is no max mass. Supers and Titans have a hidden checkbox that basically says "Unable to Dock". A binary function with everything else in the game having a "0", and supers having a "1".
Also, sure. If it's undockable I would support this. Even though it's a horrible idea, it's going to make things cheaper... and oh damn when I come across a supercapital sieged in an ice belt...
Amy Utama wrote:Komi Toran wrote:Basically obsoletes barges and exhumers. And everything else that's wrong with it. Not supported. If by that you are mean it wont take someone a dozen or more accounts and a 200 man corp, to build stuff then these ships have bin obsolete for a very very long time
Nobody builds their own crap. People would buy them off the market instead of building them. Even a spacepoor pilot like myself can afford to buy multiple capital ships without a problem. Additionally, that is the exact same arguement ccp gave when implementing titans. The original titans, of the blap everything variety. A few years later titans are everywhere.
And there are a lot of 200 man corps. "CCP Dolan is full of ****." - CCP Bettik
Remove Sov! |
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
786
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 10:02:00 -
[23] - Quote
Amy Utama wrote:Komi Toran wrote:Basically obsoletes barges and exhumers. And everything else that's wrong with it. Not supported. If by that you are mean it wont take someone a dozen or more accounts and a 200 man corp, to build stuff then these ships have bin obsolete for a very very long time I have a better solution then: Ban ISBoxer.
No to op. Remove insurance. |
Celthric Kanerian
Ascendance Of New Eden Workers Trade Federation
45
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 11:09:00 -
[24] - Quote
Amy Utama wrote:Capital Mining Barge - Bahamut I have put a very large amount of thought in to this to make it balanced and fair. DO NOT POST HERE IF YOU HAVE NOT READ THE WHOLE POST.
That made me laugh.
So because you've put a "large amount of thought" into it makes it more special than other peoples ideas? |
Velicitia
Arma Artificer
2491
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 12:08:00 -
[25] - Quote
Amy Utama wrote:Sentamon wrote:ShahFluffers wrote:*looks at OP*
Why? My thoughts exactly. Interesting I ask for input and help but i get one liners on "its op" How it it op? where is it op? why do you think its op? How can it be improved?
Looking at the Shah's post -- he's referring to the Original Post. Not saying that it's an overpowered idea (which it is).
It's overpowered, because one ship replaces all of the other ones -- i.e. it's the "Pre-Inferno* Hulk" 2.0.
*Or whichever patch initially rebalanced barges and exhumers.
Making mining more lucrative in low and null is a good goal, but the problem isn't that there isn't enough yield / minute for current barges, but that given the "mining playerbase", it has in general terms, a lower ratio of "players to pilots" than other activities, due to the ease of multi-boxing, and usefulness of tools like ISBoxer.
And, if you were to make it more lucrative through the addition of a ship like this, every nullsec miner would end up in one -- and absolutely crash the markets for compressed ores (and minerals, by proxy). One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia |
James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
70
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 12:34:00 -
[26] - Quote
Lets play my favorite game, unintended consequences.
- Obsoletes anything smaller for low/null mining
- Destroys the market for minerals on a practically producable scale
- makes mining interdiction much harder, as this looks like it would be able to get fairly good capital scale tank after refitting
- FAR easier to bot than a current barge due to the longer cycles, and massive buffer
- Collapses new player income, as many new players try mining for relatively safe income to start
- Collapses all high sec industry, as the new massive volume of minerals in low/null means even with poor distribution of some minerals, they are able to build most things without moving minerals to high
- Strains any logistics chain if they try to continue moving minerals or compressed ore to highsec to sell.
- Even higher bar to hold space, as large blocs will always be able to create and field more capitals than smaller corp and alliance sized powers.
- At a stroke, undoes the ice changes, as mining out an ice belt takes minutes for a single character who can laugh at most skirmishing subcap fleets while finishing their mining.
That crazy bag FC with the silly things on the hull that shouldn't but just did. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1870
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 13:54:00 -
[27] - Quote
there is an absolute **** ton of minerals being created in the game today such that the margin on ship prices is very low and way more supers are being created than destroyed. Why do we need EVEN MOAR minerals in the game with ships already being replaced like plastic bottles?
if you want to make more money whilst mining, go attack other ppls miners! EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
beatlebutt
Hedion University Amarr Empire
21
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 15:02:00 -
[28] - Quote
Well...hmm.. I always thought a capital miner would be cool also. Honestly I can't really wrap my head around if its balanced or not..but to all the haters..I can't see it taking over the mining market if something like that existed.
Why?
Be super easy to gank. As a capital its warp out would be so slow you would have know about the nuets 2 or 3 jumps away.
And it requires 95% cap to jump, so that leaves out emergency cyno's if you can't maintain 95% cap while mining.
Seems to me the rorqual could be given a mining role as part of its refit. As a miner with many hulks..I don't know I would use a cap even if it existed. It would be very expensive and possible easy to trap.
Hulks are slow to warp out as it is. Not too hard to catch one with an Inty.
I rather see some effort put into moon goo mining with ships in special belts. (that have to be scanned) Oh oh maybe that is what the capital miners could be for. Moon Goo belts. |
Fer'isam K'ahn
None Of One
314
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 15:19:00 -
[29] - Quote
James Baboli wrote:Lets play my favorite game, unintended consequences.
- Obsoletes anything smaller for low/null mining
- Destroys the market for minerals on a practically producable scale
- makes mining interdiction much harder, as this looks like it would be able to get fairly good capital scale tank after refitting
- FAR easier to bot than a current barge due to the longer cycles, and massive buffer
- Collapses new player income, as many new players try mining for relatively safe income to start
- Collapses all high sec industry, as the new massive volume of minerals in low/null means even with poor distribution of some minerals, they are able to build most things without moving minerals to high
- Strains any logistics chain if they try to continue moving minerals or compressed ore to highsec to sell.
- Even higher bar to hold space, as large blocs will always be able to create and field more capitals than smaller corp and alliance sized powers.
- At a stroke, undoes the ice changes, as mining out an ice belt takes minutes for a single character who can laugh at most skirmishing subcap fleets while finishing their mining.
Hey, I like this game.
I would rather see a T2 Orca created around some minign drone yield and extended ore hold for hauling then a capital mining vessel. Other then that I believe the OP a bit beyond balancing or necessity.
Are you sure your issues aren't elsewhere ?! |
Velicitia
Arma Artificer
2491
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 15:44:00 -
[30] - Quote
beatlebutt wrote:Well...hmm.. I always thought a capital miner would be cool also. Honestly I can't really wrap my head around if its balanced or not..but to all the haters..I can't see it taking over the mining market if something like that existed.
Why?
Be super easy to gank. As a capital its warp out would be so slow you would have know about the nuets 2 or 3 jumps away.
Hint -- if you only learn about the neuts 3 jumps out, your intel network is doing it wrong.
beatlebutt wrote: And it requires 95% cap to jump, so that leaves out emergency cyno's if you can't maintain 95% cap while mining.
Cap chain from Guardians (or hell, Archons, because low/null).
Oh, and I just re-read the OP, and noticed this bit --
Quote: This Capital Ship can fit a Industrial Jump Generator it allows non jump capable Mining ships to be moved in Bulk.
The Industrial Jump Generator has the same required skills as the Jump Portal Generator that the titan uses. It Functions different it expands the ships Jump Drive Field to bring other ships with it. only the following ships will be allowed to be carried:...
Hint -- a jump portal doesn't bring other ships with you. It allows you to send ships to a remote location (provided you have enough fuel to do so). One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia |
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James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
72
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 15:46:00 -
[31] - Quote
Do we need to do a point by point Fisking of the idea? Cause so far, it's just a community shark attack against an idea that had a whelk's chance in a supernova. That crazy bag FC with the silly things on the hull that shouldn't but just did. |
Paynus Maiassus
Capital Munitions
78
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 16:10:00 -
[32] - Quote
I do not support the concept of a capital miner. Update the Rorq instead. The Rorq is not useless, as others have implied here. Mine is the most useful cap I own currently. However, it could use some love. This capital mining ship is just a bad idea. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1870
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 16:15:00 -
[33] - Quote
beatlebutt wrote:Well...hmm.. I always thought a capital miner would be cool also. Honestly I can't really wrap my head around if its balanced or not..but to all the haters..I can't see it taking over the mining market if something like that existed.
Why?
Be super easy to gank. As a capital its warp out would be so slow you would have know about the nuets 2 or 3 jumps away.
And it requires 95% cap to jump, so that leaves out emergency cyno's if you can't maintain 95% cap while mining.
Seems to me the rorqual could be given a mining role as part of its refit. As a miner with many hulks..I don't know I would use a cap even if it existed. It would be very expensive and possible easy to trap.
Hulks are slow to warp out as it is. Not too hard to catch one with an Inty.
I rather see some effort put into moon goo mining with ships in special belts. (that have to be scanned) Oh oh maybe that is what the capital miners could be for. Moon Goo belts.
most carrier ratters seem to be caught through sheer negligence. With a coalition sized intel network and a choke points, seeing bad guys coming from a few jumps away will likely not be an issue. if a hulk was caught by an inty, he more than likely wasnt paying attention or was mining close to a gate with no scouts. Not exactly hard to mitigate when your flying something more expensive.
there are more ways of getting 95% cap than i can be bothered to write, but you can get 0-80% instantly with 6 cap boosters.
James Baboli wrote:Do we need to do a point by point Fisking of the idea? Cause so far, it's just a community shark attack against an idea that had a whelk's chance in a supernova.
apparently so because some ppl ^^ still arent getting it EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Velicitia
Arma Artificer
2491
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 16:22:00 -
[34] - Quote
James Baboli wrote:Do we need to do a point by point Fisking of the idea? Cause so far, it's just a community shark attack against an idea that had a whelk's chance in a supernova.
slow F&I day. One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia |
Velicitia
Arma Artificer
2491
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 16:23:00 -
[35] - Quote
Paynus Maiassus wrote:I do not support the concept of a capital miner. Update the Rorq instead. The Rorq is not useless, as others have implied here. Mine is the most useful cap I own currently. However, it could use some love. This capital mining ship is just a bad idea.
This -- I loved my rorq.
Then ended up back in hisec (because I'm bad at eve), so sold it...
One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia |
James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
72
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 16:36:00 -
[36] - Quote
Amy Utama wrote:Capital Mining Barge - Bahamut I have put a very large amount of thought in to this to make it balanced and fair. DO NOT POST HERE IF YOU HAVE NOT READ THE WHOLE POST. Oh, you special snowflake. Banning TL;DR on something of this bloated scale, without let or hindrance [/quote]
Amy Utama wrote: Slots 6 high / 6 Med / 6 low Structure hp: 125,000 Resists: EM: 0% / Thermal: 0% / Kinetic: 0% / Explosive: 0% Armor hp: 100,000 Resists: EM: 50% / Thermal: 45% / Kinetic: 25% / Explosive: 10% Shield hp: 150,000 Resists: EM: 0% / Thermal: 20% / Kinetic: 40% / Explosive: 50%
A 6/6/6 capital ship, with a base pool of EHP in the low to mid million range, and the possibility to entirely brick the shields, on something designed for PVE..... I can't think of a single reason not to break it for combat at this point.
Amy Utama wrote: Capacity: 25,000 - Cannot hole ore or minerals
A normal hold which cannot be used for normal materials? why not? makes life interesting, but curious to see on a capital industrial.
Amy Utama wrote: Drone bay: 300 m3 Combat Drone bandwidth: 125 Mbit/s
So, a full flight of sentries, on a ship with the ability to pack the lows with DDAs, and the highs with DLAs. Must be a nice turret. Again, this looks nothing like a PvE ship.
That crazy bag FC with the silly things on the hull that shouldn't but just did. |
James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
72
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 16:44:00 -
[37] - Quote
Amy Utama wrote: Drone bay: 300 m3 Combat Drone bandwidth: 125 Mbit/s
So, a full flight of sentries, on a ship with the ability to pack the lows with DDAs, and the highs with DLAs. Must be a nice turret. Again, this looks nothing like a PvE ship.
Amy Utama wrote: Mass: 1,430,000,000 kg Volume: 25,350,000.0 m3 (2,500,000,0 m3 Packaged) Inertia Modifier:0.04 x
So a base time to warp speed of 79 seconds? sure. First reasonable thing about this post.Amy Utama wrote: Ore Hold Capacity: 1,000,000 m3
Nope. Just nope. Million m3 is too high for anything but a frieghter.
Amy Utama wrote: Capacitor Capacity: 65,000 Capacitor Recharge time: 5,000 s
13 cap/s before skills or fits? I can't think of any problems with that. now, lets increase both to full and see what happens, oh look, 21.66 cap/s. About normal for a battleship. Wheres the large numbers like most capitals have now?
Amy Utama wrote: Targeting: Maximum Targeting Range: 125 km Maximum Targets Locked: 5 Signature Radius: 6,000 m Scan Resolution (non asteroid): 40 mm Scan Resolution (asteroid): 1200 mm Sensor Strength (Magnetometric): 120
Hmm. Grid breaking lock range. Not a problem per se, but something to be aware of. Now, a scan resolution against only one type of thing. Requires some fun special case coding, and more dev time tied up. How about a more reasonable scan res as a base, and none of this "instalock any roid EVAR" stuff. And WOW that sensor strength. Unjammable RR anyone? That crazy bag FC with the silly things on the hull that shouldn't but just did. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
5902
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 16:50:00 -
[38] - Quote
It is glaringly obvious the OP has never played with capitals before. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
"How did you veterans start?" |
James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
72
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 16:53:00 -
[39] - Quote
Amy Utama wrote: Fleet Hanger Capacity: 40,000
Okay, so less than an orca. Seems fair enough, especially with the large ore hold. And hey, something that isn't a special case, usable only by this one ship.
Amy Utama wrote: Jump Dive Systems Jump Drive Capacitor Need: 95% (canGÇÖt be reduced in any way)
And we're back to single special case programming.
Amy Utama wrote: Maximum Jump Range: 4 ly Jump Drive Fuel Need: Oxygen Isotopes Jump Drive Consumption Amount: 2,000 units
So it costs more fuel to jump than a titan.... cool.
Amy Utama wrote: Fuel Bay Capacity: 20,000 m3
and has a fuel bay large enough to fuel a tower out of. Makes sense, I guess.
Amy Utama wrote: Maximum Velocity: 55 m/sec Ship Warp Speed: 1.25 AU/S
So, it warps slower than titans. Makes no sense given the size of the ship and so on. That crazy bag FC with the silly things on the hull that shouldn't but just did. |
Amy Utama
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 17:03:00 -
[40] - Quote
Thanks for the support guys made edits this is a WiP and but I still wanna see a Capital mining barge yes it is slower then a titan but there needs to be Cons to combat Pros Large Ore bay - moves slower |
|
James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
72
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 17:04:00 -
[41] - Quote
Amy Utama wrote: You have noticed this ship had no Ship Maintenance Bay or Fitting service
And I may not have. On something like this, it already has enough of an advantage just as a inobvious PVP platform.
Amy Utama wrote: This Capital Ship can fit a Industrial Jump Generator it allows non jump capable Mining ships to be moved in Bulk.
The Industrial Jump Generator has the same required skills as the Jump Portal Generator that the titan uses. It Functions different it expands the ships Jump Drive Field to bring other ships with it. only the following ships will be allowed to be carried: Orca Hulk Covetor Mackinaw Retriever Skiff Procurer Prospect Venture
So, do they all get sucked off with you, or do you create a jump bridge? If they all get sucked with you, then it becomes an easy way to jump one in and kidnap an entire hostile mining fleet. Also, allowing it to move an orca means you just circumvented the "no fitting service" you listed as a balancing measure. Grats. If its a jump portal generator, why duplicate the functionality?
Amy Utama wrote: Industrial Jump Generator Activation Cost: 1000 GJ Fuel Consumption: 1000 Strontium Clathrates Duration: 60 s
So, a worse jump portal generator, without the disallows assistance flag, or using your jump fuel.... I totally can't think of any way to break this, with a battle venture fleet consisting of the entire CFC or something. That crazy bag FC with the silly things on the hull that shouldn't but just did. |
Amy Utama
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 17:13:00 -
[42] - Quote
James Baboli wrote: This Capital Ship can fit a Industrial Jump Generator it allows non jump capable Mining ships to be moved in Bulk.
The Industrial Jump Generator has the same required skills as the Jump Portal Generator that the titan uses. It Functions different it expands the ships Jump Drive Field to bring other ships with it. only the following ships will be allowed to be carried: Orca Hulk Covetor Mackinaw Retriever Skiff Procurer Prospect Venture
So, do they all get sucked off with you, or do you create a jump bridge? If they all get sucked with you, then it becomes an easy way to jump one in and kidnap an entire hostile mining fleet. Also, allowing it to move an orca means you just circumvented the "no fitting service" you listed as a balancing measure. Grats. If its a jump portal generator, why duplicate the functionality?
Amy Utama wrote: Industrial Jump Generator Activation Cost: 1000 GJ Fuel Consumption: 1000 Strontium Clathrates Duration: 60 s
So, a worse jump portal generator, without the disallows assistance flag, or using your jump fuel.... I totally can't think of any way to break this, with a battle venture fleet consisting of the entire CFC or something.[/quote]
Removed for balancing and good arguments
|
James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
72
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 17:20:00 -
[43] - Quote
Amy Utama wrote: Read this carefully:
The Following stats are for a character with the
BEST POSSIBLE BOOSTER WITH THE BEST IMPLANTS AND BEST SKILLS FOR BOTH THE BOOSTER AND MINER!!!!
So it all comes out as even numbers after skills and boosters and so on? Gotta love the bass-ackwards nature of the stats then.
Amy Utama wrote: Capital Strip Miner: Capacity: 40 m3 (1 capital crystal) Activation Cost: 300 Gj Optimal Range: 50 km
So.... from one end of a belt to the other. interesting. and ends up with a trivial cap cost for the mining lasers @ 1.666 cap/s, which is only about 3x a zero skill, unlinked strip miner 1s cap/s
Amy Utama wrote: Activation Time / Duration: 180 s
So, some horrible mess of non-rational decimals as the base stats? hmm.
Amy Utama wrote: Mining Amount: 9,000 m3 {3,000 m3 per min} - Includes Bonus from Crystal Required Mining Crystal Size: Large (40 m3 each)
So..... it mines almost twice as fast as a max skill hulk with implants but no links per laser. wow.
Amy Utama wrote: Requires Industrial Reactor: 1 - Per Capital Strip miner *When Activated Links with 1 non activated Industrial Reactor and activates the Reactor*
So, a third single purpose, only on this ship module is needed to use the second special snowflake module? Wow. what a concept. It needs a minimum of 3 modules to be introduced, the BPs seeded and so on, for a single purpose ship. That crazy bag FC with the silly things on the hull that shouldn't but just did. |
Llyona
Lazerhawks
73
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 17:29:00 -
[44] - Quote
Amy Utama wrote:Capital Mining Barge - Bahamut Role Bonus Can Only Fit Capital Strip Miners Can Fit Industrial Reactor I have taken in suggestions and have made adjustments *cannot mine Ice*
I would be okay with this if you tweaked a few aspects of the ship.
1) Make the Capital Strip Miners cycle time 5 minutes and yield 2500m3/cycle (500m3/min).
2) Allow the ship to mine the full 12500m3/cycle with the utilization of a "Mining Optimization Module" or some other module. This module should effectively behave like a Siege/Triage Module, in that it would increase mining yield by 500% at the cost of preventing the ship from moving and warping away while it is active. This module should have a 5 minute duration.
2) The powergrid should be lowered to the point that this behemoth would not be able to fit capital sized repair modules and a fully optimized mining setup. You should have to choose between make nom, or reduced nom with tank.
3) This thing should be expensive and require fleet support. I like the limitations in cargo space you provided, however I think it should be limited to the maximum amount the mining modules can yield in one cycle with max skills.
4) No drones. This ship is already ridiculously "specialized" in the mining role. Giving it drone bandwidth will only make it easier for it to escape an interceptor. A ship this powerful should pretty much be screwed if it gets caught without a backup fleet.
5) Make it incapable of fitting Warp Core Stabilizers.
That's my $0.02 EVE is an illness, for which there is no cure. |
James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
72
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 17:31:00 -
[45] - Quote
Amy Utama wrote:
Fitting: High Power Slot CPU: 125 tf 130,000 MW
Now if only we had seen some sort of stats for the base hull to compare these to.
Amy Utama wrote: Skill requirements Capital Strip Miner Level 1 (allows activation of 1 Per Skill Level) Mining Level 5 Deep Core Mining Level 5 Capital Mining Crystal: Same basic skills as Tech 2 but require all processing skills to level 5
So it needs max skills that you already should have as a miner, and on 1 toon at a minimum if an industrialist in null. Sign me up.
Amy Utama wrote: Industrial Reactor: Allows activation of 1 Capital Strip Miner per Industrial Reactor. Redirects power from the drive system to the strip miner
Alright, so introduce the horrors of 1:1 module linked dependancies. great. This is totally not a bad idea.
Amy Utama wrote: Industrial Reactor: Low Slot Capacity: 30 m3 Activation Cost: 1 x Gallente Fuel Block Activation Time / Duration: 10 minutes
So, it has a HUGE capacity, and a tiny fuel usage. Nice. Another way to store extra fuel to fuel the tower it will end up living in.
Amy Utama wrote: Reduces ship acceleration: 25% Per Reactor (does not reduce ships max speed) Increases align time: 25% Per Reactor Cannot Activate Jump Drive or Industrial Jump Generator *5 reactors running makes the ship immobile*
Unless, as elsewhere, we resort to single case programing, no these modules don't end up making the ship immobile, and become far far less significant after the first 2. It just so happens that EVE has this little thing called a stacking penalty, and align time (unless done through mass, in which case capital coasting like WOAH) and acceleration (again, unless done through mass) are both controlled by a statistic which is stacking penalized, and this usually affects both ways. That crazy bag FC with the silly things on the hull that shouldn't but just did. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
881
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 17:32:00 -
[46] - Quote
it would get hotdropped all the time .. there is no profit here ... fix the Rorqual .. maybe it could do much the same function along with what it already does .. Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
72
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 17:32:00 -
[47] - Quote
I'm done for now. If someone finishes off the remaining points to the fisking, I'd be happy, but I need to go for now. That crazy bag FC with the silly things on the hull that shouldn't but just did. |
Amy Utama
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 17:49:00 -
[48] - Quote
James Baboli wrote:I'm done for now. If someone finishes off the remaining points to the fisking, I'd be happy, but I need to go for now.
reread the main post before posting with items that have bin removed or changed and remember you are comparing a Cruiser sized mining ship to a very large Capital sized mining ship |
James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
72
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 19:11:00 -
[49] - Quote
Considering the changes, the fisking will stop. that changes happened in response to critisism indicate that the author is not in need of a full fisking, and while the implentation sucks, the idea is interesting. It retains some of the worst aspects of the origional still, like using bonuses from a ship skill substantially smaller than it, and a yield that obsoletes anything smaller. It is an interesting addition to the capital industrial lineup, and belongs in that limited category.
Tank:
Quote:Exhumers Bonuses (Per Skill Level) 4% Bonus to Shield Resistances
Besides being a capital getting bonuses from a ship skill which is mostly cruisers, this brings the EHP and native resist profile way out of line with anything else close to the category, especially with the flat HP profile. Every other ORE ship has either a massive hull HP or a massive shield HP, but 100k HP in all three is a bad idea.
Reactors:
The reactors linking to one single laser is a nice touch for realism, but they still are a special case as no other module uses isotopes as fuel directly from the mod itself, rather all other mods use them from the fuel bay. Given the fairly large fuel bay for something without a jump bridge, this is a reasonable draw on the fuel bay even with 5 of them fit. The other issue is that every other module with a similar effect (triage, siege bastion) is a high slot and 1 to a ship, rather than 1:1 with the module(s) they effect. They also, due to stacking penalty, would not actually make the ship immobile without hard coding such a thing.
Mining output: So, basic mineral prices (and the underlying income of miners) are the balancing factor of costs for most capital ships. Thus these need to be carefully considered when applying massive changes to mining output per character per unit of time. As it is, this represents a 10-12x increase in the maximum m3 taken in per toon per hour. This is scalar with the DPS output of a battleship to a super-carrier, but supers and seiged dreads were balanced around killing POS shields, not with killing each other. The current output of such ships is so high because Sov is currently a MASSIVE grind, with millions of EHP per thing that you need to kill. thus balancing following this sort of scaling is not going to be effective.Your concept, while a nice concept, is too big to be effectively balanced. A smaller version, closer to a dread in size, would likely be much more effective. Total output of roughly five times a tank fit hulk or four times that of a max yield hulk is probably better, and more likely to be usable and balanced.
Slot layout: 5/5/5 is a very powerful layout on anything with capital PG and CPU to play with, even if it lacks hardpoints. If the reactor is made more like conventional siege (1 to a ship, high slot), a 6/4/4 profile might make sense, as would a 6/5/2 if it is intended to mostly be shield tanked, as the bonus proposed suggested.
Skills:
There is already a skill for ships used for industrial purposes at the capital scale. It is called "Capital Industrial ships" and as such, you ship falls fairly squarely into the role the name implies. Forcing orca and rorqual pilots to train another capital skill to fly a capital industrial ship is bad. That crazy bag FC with the silly things on the hull that shouldn't but just did. |
Komi Toran
Paragon Trust The Bastion
172
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 19:30:00 -
[50] - Quote
Amy Utama wrote:[quote=James Baboli]remember you are comparing a Cruiser sized mining ship to a very large Capital sized mining ship So what? Does that mean its mining lasers can't track small 'roids or something?
No. Just no. As long as you think capital = MOAR MINING, no.
It can't dock. So, this is for alts only. This is only for those people with 20 mining accounts. No.
The concept is just bad.
|
|
James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
72
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 19:36:00 -
[51] - Quote
Komi Toran wrote:Amy Utama wrote:[quote=James Baboli]remember you are comparing a Cruiser sized mining ship to a very large Capital sized mining ship So what? Does that mean its mining lasers can't track small 'roids or something? No. Just no. As long as you think capital = MOAR MINING, no. It can't dock. So, this is for alts only. This is only for those people with 20 mining accounts. No. The concept is just bad. The base concept isn't bad. A bigger, more skill intensive barge. Now, load it down with "features" like a jump drive, massive tank, freighter sized capacity, a piecemeal seige module, and several special case bits of coding, and it becomes a monstrosity. Gimme a straight up, upsized t1 capital barge based off the orca to mine with, that generates competative isk/hr as being okay at l4s but costs a motherload, and needs orca skills + mining skills, and you have my interest. That crazy bag FC with the silly things on the hull that shouldn't but just did. |
Komi Toran
Paragon Trust The Bastion
172
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 20:12:00 -
[52] - Quote
James Baboli wrote:Gimme a straight up, upsized t1 capital barge based off the orca to mine with, that generates competative isk/hr as being okay at l4s but costs a motherload, and needs orca skills + mining skills, and you have my interest. Cost is not a limiter. This should have been made obvious with the proliferation of Titans. The only thing that matters is how much can a character generate with this ship. If it's more than a hulk, it's a non-starter, even if it costs 10 or 100 times more.
|
Llyona
Lazerhawks
73
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 20:53:00 -
[53] - Quote
Komi Toran wrote:James Baboli wrote:Gimme a straight up, upsized t1 capital barge based off the orca to mine with, that generates competative isk/hr as being okay at l4s but costs a motherload, and needs orca skills + mining skills, and you have my interest. Cost is not a limiter. It is when you take into consideration the probability of it being blown up.
Make this beast require a siege type module with a 5 minute duration in order to out mine a regular mining barge and you have yourself an equation that makes this idea more reasonable. EVE is an illness, for which there is no cure. |
Christopher Mabata
Dominion Tenebrarum Reverberation Project
114
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 21:29:00 -
[54] - Quote
No this is pointless
You already have fleets of Exhumers and barges boosted by rorquals, you dont need something that obsoletes all of them in a second. Or mines out entire belts in minutes by itself
Can you even give us a good reason why there should be such a thing in the game? With particular detail to balancing, cost, use of other smaller ships compared to this, and such?
Is it bad if your friend says "that was a Metaphor" and you say "Meta 4? Get Tech II or faction" ?I love the sound of silent explosions in Space.-á |
Arronicus
Caldari Navy Reconnaissance
1121
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 21:39:00 -
[55] - Quote
Amy Utama wrote:Capital Mining Barge - Seabiscuit Capital Mining Barge TraitsMining Barge Bonuses (Per Skill Level) 5% Reduction to Strip Miner Duration 4% Bonus to Ship Mining Amount Exhumers Bonuses (Per Skill Level) 4% Bonus to Shield Resistances 3% Reduction to Strip Miner Duration
I don't think you understand how Eve works. Capital ships do not get the affects of tech 2 sub-capital ship skills. Just as jump freighters do not benefit from Transport Ships, and dreadnaughts do not benefit from Marauders, it doesn't make any sense whatsoever that your capital mining barge would benefit from Exhumers.
Now, while a multitude of reasons have been pointed out of why this is such a bad thing that would be of an overall negative change to Eve, including the fact that ore prices would drop respective to the increased yield of this ship, that this would completely obsolete any other ore miners, and in general just be far too much of a gap between the traditional role of mining ships (protect me while I mine ore); noone seems to be paying proper attention to the name.
For your suggestion, 'Seabiscuit' would be far more apt. |
Komi Toran
Paragon Trust The Bastion
172
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 21:48:00 -
[56] - Quote
Llyona wrote:It is when you take into consideration the probability of it being blown up. This is binary: Either the ship will recover its cost over its lifetime, and so will replace exhumers, or it will not, and so will not be used. In the first, cost is not a limiter. In the second, you have wasted development time on a pointless ship.
|
James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
72
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 22:01:00 -
[57] - Quote
Komi Toran wrote:Llyona wrote:It is when you take into consideration the probability of it being blown up. This is binary: Either the ship will recover its cost over its lifetime, and so will replace exhumers, or it will not, and so will not be used. In the first, cost is not a limiter. In the second, you have wasted development time on a pointless ship. This is non-binary, because you have infant mortality (I went AFK in a null belt and it died to an officer spawn while I was AFK), and you have people beating the odds (Ninja-mining in a hostile staging system). I have heard of both happening. That crazy bag FC with the silly things on the hull that shouldn't but just did. |
Komi Toran
Paragon Trust The Bastion
172
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 22:05:00 -
[58] - Quote
James Baboli wrote:This is non-binary, because you have infant mortality... Because exhumers never have to contend with popping before they've paid for themselves, let alone the cost differential between them and a barge.
It's binary. |
James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
72
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 22:13:00 -
[59] - Quote
Komi Toran wrote:James Baboli wrote:This is non-binary, because you have infant mortality... Because exhumers never have to contend with popping before they've paid for themselves, let alone the cost differential between them and a barge. It's binary. Its a curve, with a range of average lifecycle vs. ROI varying by space, player habits, tank relative to rats etc. Generally, this sort of thing would have to cost like the dickens or be extrodinarily fragile compared to null/low rats, or be forced to seige to mine at all in order to get similar sorts of investment choice with t1/t2/large being a function of how good your intel net is, how good you are at listening to it, how good your tank skills are and so on. That crazy bag FC with the silly things on the hull that shouldn't but just did. |
Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
612
|
Posted - 2014.08.15 22:45:00 -
[60] - Quote
Amy Utama wrote:Komi Toran wrote:Basically obsoletes barges and exhumers. And everything else that's wrong with it. Not supported. If by that you are mean it wont take someone a dozen or more accounts and a 200 man corp, to build stuff then these ships have bin obsolete for a very very long time What ever made you think that it shouldn't take a large group effort to build something big or worthwhile?
I fail to see any reason why we need a "bigger Hulk". The Hulk already fills this role. There is no point in making another mining ship higher than it.
If you want to propose a new mining ship, propose an ice mining version of the Prospect. |
|
James Nikolas Tesla
The Immortal Soldiers
152
|
Posted - 2014.08.16 01:07:00 -
[61] - Quote
Amy Utama wrote:[center] Capital Strip Miner: Capacity: 40 m3 (1 capital crystal) Activation Cost: 600 Gj Optimal Range: 30 km Activation Time / Duration: 180 s *includes boosts and implants* Mining Amount: 9,000 m3 {3,000 m3 per min} - Includes Bonus from Crystal *includes boosts and implants* Required Mining Crystal Size: Large (40 m3 each) Requires Industrial Reactor: 1 - Per Capital Strip miner *Cannot Mine Ice* *When Activated Links with 1 non activated Industrial Reactor and activates the Reactor*
No, just no. All they need to do is fix the Rorqual. Elite PVP - The use of huge blobs, capital ships, and metagaming to defeat a target you already significantly outnumbered. -masternerdguy |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
12712
|
Posted - 2014.08.16 04:23:00 -
[62] - Quote
James Baboli wrote: The base concept isn't bad.
Yes it is.
This ship would destroy the ore market for every other miner. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Amy Utama
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.16 04:51:00 -
[63] - Quote
More Changes made have a look |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
12712
|
Posted - 2014.08.16 04:56:00 -
[64] - Quote
Amy Utama wrote:More Changes made have a look
Doesn't matter how many changes you make to it, capital miners are never going to happen because they will hurt the ore market for every other miner badly just when they have made mining a worthwhile activity. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Amy Utama
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.16 14:22:00 -
[65] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Amy Utama wrote:More Changes made have a look Doesn't matter how many changes you make to it, capital miners are never going to happen because they will hurt the ore market for every other miner badly just when they have made mining a worthwhile activity.
then you are in support of the ISBoxer and bot miners that are making bank because they can have 20 accounts plexed with little to no effort. then yes it will hurt some it wont hurt as many as you think you must think of the risk vs cost before deciding if its going to hurt other miners this ship wont be cheap or easy to create, players hide the Roq in pos's just to be deployed and throw the best boosts possable for there miners. maybe if they feel lucky they will collect cans from there mining fleet but usally not they wont rish there 3b isk ship on that. a 5-10b isk capital Miner is not worth the risk to most |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
12715
|
Posted - 2014.08.16 14:31:00 -
[66] - Quote
Amy Utama wrote:
then you are in support of the ISBoxer and bot miners that are making bank because they can have 20 accounts plexed with little to no effort.
Now imagine these ISBoxers with your ship. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
hmskrecik
The Scope Gallente Federation
212
|
Posted - 2014.08.16 15:05:00 -
[67] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:The more you mine the less isk you earn per rock. People seem to forget this fact when they ask for bigger mining ships. Taking this line of thinking to the extreme, we should stop doing any PVE and be shooting each other in rookie ships.
On second thought, not that bad idea. |
TomyLobo
U2EZ
136
|
Posted - 2014.08.16 16:47:00 -
[68] - Quote
Why do people who don't do any mining whatsoever feel the need to contribute to a thread about mining ships? |
Brutalis Furia
Mortis Angelus The Kadeshi
8
|
Posted - 2014.08.16 18:56:00 -
[69] - Quote
I like the base idea of a capital miner as (mining) fleet support, but we already have that - the Rorqual.
The concept of a mining fleet seems to be that smaller ships (exhumers, barges and frigates) collect and a larger ship stands overwatch providing boosts and storage. Given that (and the changes to industry lately), I don't think we need a large capital ship actually extracting ore.
If this was an attempt to provide a 1-ship alternative to compete with miners with multiple accounts, that can't work. I applaud the idea (in theory), but any advantage you build into a single ship is also given to the multiboxers (unfortunately). You can't penalize multiboxers without penalizing cooperative play, either. The game has no way of knowing if someone is multiboxing or if its different people.
We don't need another large ship, the Orca and the Rorqual are more than enough for the needs of a mining fleet. The Orca is just fine as it is in its role of providing boosts and storage, given that its able to be fielded in HiSec.
I would like to see the Rorqual changed around the concept of a mobile industrial starbase. Perhaps even a form of mobile resupply platform for sustained engagements.
Undeployed
- It would have mobility and drones, but no access to any active modules (it would need fleet protection while moving).
- I'd remove the Clone Vat Bay, the cargo and survey scanning bonuses, and the shield repairer range bonus. With its role being moved off-grid, it doesn't need these.
- It would not have access to add/remove anything from any of its holds with the exception of the main cargo hold.
Deployed
- It would have access to ore compression, straight up refining (at modest to poor efficiency), even light manufacturing (ammo and other consumables).
- It would gain access to its other holds and services (ore, ammo, Ship Maintenance Bay, fleet hangar).
- Can activate up to 3 Warfare links (with the same 10% per level boost).
- SMB would still have the same limitations on ship types (industrials or barges).
In essence it would be an extremely vulnerable target while mobile and only slightly less so when deployed, but it would give boosts just as well as it does now, and also have some of the functionality of a POS. |
NEONOVUS
Diabolically Sexy Eureka-Secret Science R Us
902
|
Posted - 2014.08.16 19:05:00 -
[70] - Quote
Komi Toran wrote:Amy Utama wrote:If by that you are mean it wont take someone a dozen or more accounts and a 200 man corp, to build stuff then these ships have bin obsolete for a very very long time By that I mean every isoboxed mining alt will be trained into these monstrosities, collapsing the price of minerals even further and trivializing the amount of minerals all the size-limited high-sec miners can produce. And as I only have a single account and make my billions of ISK building stuff while mining most of the minerals I need in a few hours time, your statement is wrong. But minerals used to be far cheaper with the same faucets I mean I have seen trit double in my play time |
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Amy Utama
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.17 03:27:00 -
[71] - Quote
I want to thank everyone that posted here it has given me some idea this is still in my mind but the current Ore Capital ship needs reworked before this can be conciderd at all. heck that might be wat the roq needs is options that bring it out of the pos shield |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
12720
|
Posted - 2014.08.17 03:53:00 -
[72] - Quote
NEONOVUS wrote: But minerals used to be far cheaper with the same faucets I mean I have seen trit double in my play time
That's because CCP have nerfed gun mining savagely and increased build cost on most ships. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
HiddenPorpoise
Under Dark Sins of our Fathers
261
|
Posted - 2014.08.17 03:54:00 -
[73] - Quote
NEONOVUS wrote:Komi Toran wrote:Amy Utama wrote:If by that you are mean it wont take someone a dozen or more accounts and a 200 man corp, to build stuff then these ships have bin obsolete for a very very long time By that I mean every isoboxed mining alt will be trained into these monstrosities, collapsing the price of minerals even further and trivializing the amount of minerals all the size-limited high-sec miners can produce. And as I only have a single account and make my billions of ISK building stuff while mining most of the minerals I need in a few hours time, your statement is wrong. But minerals used to be far cheaper with the same faucets I mean I have seen trit double in my play time That would be the drone nerf and its very, very slow stockpile drainage, battleship price increase, the rise of miner ganking rates, and the proliferation of supers and caps. |
Karma Chameleon Noban
Specter Syndicate Tactical Narcotics Team
9
|
Posted - 2014.08.17 06:45:00 -
[74] - Quote
I'd be for a capital miner if it took a year to get into.
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Paikis
Vapour Holdings
1345
|
Posted - 2014.08.17 06:55:00 -
[75] - Quote
Karma Chameleon Noban wrote:I'd be for a capital miner if it took a year to get into.
Still a bad idea. |
Amarisen Gream
Lone Wolf Union Yulai Federation
47
|
Posted - 2014.08.17 09:20:00 -
[76] - Quote
I like the idea of a BS/capital sized mining ship. Something with massive ore bay. But no strip miners - ether miners or capital mining lasers and reduce their range.
People complain that anything bigger than a Hulk will kill the mineral market. Ship just needs to be balanced enough. If it has to hug a rock and slower than cow ****, the time investment to farm a belt increases. This balancing yield and time to be more along the lines of the smaller barges.
+ if you left it to standard lasers it could farm gas. xoxo Amarisen Gream |
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