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Terraform Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.18 18:48:00 - [1] Add more firepower to sentryguns, it seems so wrong that a single BS can tank the sentries for 5-10 mins. and then warp out. If the sentries actually had some punch in them it would make gatecamping a very desperate option and not just your everyday piracy-method. It would actually take some skills to tank and camp a gate then. Just an idea...
Novarei Ninth Column	Posted - 2006.07.18 18:52:00 - [2] Awww, but everyone would snipe then... --------------------
lofty29 Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.18 18:53:00 - [3] IIRC, most sentry guns are only large weaponry. They do a frackload of damage nehoo, and of all 4 damage types. It takes a cap booster tank to tank them, and a few nos will offset the pirate. Besides, its better than the old 20 pirates in tempests camping at 200km to instapop anything. --------------------------- Originally by: HippoKing ...I suck at forums
Jobie Thickburger Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.18 18:54:00 - [4] Not to say it doesn't take a good bit of skill to be able to sit and tank 2 sentry guns anyway.... but I see your point. Mabey up the DMG modifier on the low sec sentries or something, but then again, Lowsec isn't ment to be 100% safe anyway. You'll get both sides of the fence here Terraform, But personally, I like the Idea B/C i'm mostly a carebear, Whereas expect the pirates to start saying to get rid of em as it was in the olden days.... CEO - MGTTG
Kurren Farscape Mining	Posted - 2006.07.18 18:55:00 - [5] You say that until you're the one gate camping --- --- --- --- SobaKai.com
Dark Shikari Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.18 18:57:00 - [6] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 18/07/2006 18:56:53 I suggest you try tanking them before you say its quite easy to do so... The only way to "tank" sentry guns continuously with a single battleship and without faction equipment is to use a cap booster, and even then you'll have trouble without really good skills, and in addition any skilled pilot (even in a cruiser) will be able to break your tank with ease. The only way to tank for a long period is to put a can next to the gate filled with cap charges --Proud member of the [23]-- -WTS Heavy Electron II, 100mn AB II, Medium Warp Bubbles-
Terraform Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.18 18:58:00 - [7] There isn't really that big a difference, now they jsut camp 15 km from the gate, scrambles and webs everything that gets inside and pops it in a few secs. I highly doubt the damageoutput is so insane as a just saw a megathron tanking it alone, WHILE firing at me and not losing an inch of armor (so much for big damage). On the other hand maybe they should just boost sentries in general (both damage and range) that way piracy could still be performed, just not in the "i'm just sitting, waiting"-method. another suggestion would of course just be to remove the damn sentries and let everything be fair game, but that might be a bit drastic
Mi Lai Sanguine Legion Atrocitas	Posted - 2006.07.18 19:00:00 - [8] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 18/07/2006 18:56:53 I suggest you try tanking them before you say its quite easy to do so... The only way to "tank" sentry guns continuously with a single battleship and without faction equipment is to use a cap booster, and even then you'll have trouble without really good skills, and in addition any skilled pilot (even in a cruiser) will be able to break your tank with ease. The only way to tank for a long period is to put a can next to the gate filled with cap charges /me goes of to buy a Giant Secure Container and a truckload of 800 charges. Seems this thread is good for something anyway
Dark Shikari Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.18 19:03:00 - [9] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 18/07/2006 19:04:44 Originally by: Terraform There isn't really that big a difference, now they jsut camp 15 km from the gate, scrambles and webs everything that gets inside and pops it in a few secs. I highly doubt the damageoutput is so insane as a just saw a megathron tanking it alone, WHILE firing at me and not losing an inch of armor (so much for big damage). Yeah, the megathron can tank it alone, while you're not firing at it, and its using a cap booster. Originally by: Mi Lai Originally by: Dark Shikari I suggest you try tanking them before you say its quite easy to do so... The only way to "tank" sentry guns continuously with a single battleship and without faction equipment is to use a cap booster, and even then you'll have trouble without really good skills, and in addition any skilled pilot (even in a cruiser) will be able to break your tank with ease. The only way to tank for a long period is to put a can next to the gate filled with cap charges /me goes of to buy a Giant Secure Container and a truckload of 800 charges. Seems this thread is good for something anyway This is an ebil, ebil tactic. Want something better? In empire wars, make an alt, and jetisson a can of 27500m3 of 800 charges. Sit next to it in your main's battleship. Continually feed 800 charges from the can into your ship: use two cap boosters if necessary if you have a really ridiculous tank. Nobody will be able to steal the stuff in the can fast enough, and you can always refill it with your alt. Finally, if anyone tries to shoot it, they get CONCORDOKKENed! --Proud member of the [23]-- -WTS Heavy Electron II, 100mn AB II, Medium Warp Bubbles-
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.18 19:04:00 - [10] Last week people whined about sniping, now its the sentry guns... The big problem here is that there is nobody in the low sec belts because they arent even close to being as profitable as missions. So the only way to catch prey as a pirate is to hang near the gates. Expect even more of it in the future, i would say. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jane Vladmir Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.18 19:05:00 - [11] You've never camped a gate obviously.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.18 19:07:00 - [12] Originally by: Dark Shikari In empire wars, make an alt, and jetisson a can of 27500m3 of 800 charges. Sit next to it in your main's battleship. Continually feed 800 charges from the can into your ship: use two cap boosters if necessary if you have a really ridiculous tank. Nobody will be able to steal the stuff in the can fast enough, and you can always refill it with your alt. Finally, if anyone tries to shoot it, they get CONCORDOKKENed! PvP in this game can be really sad... --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Terraform Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.18 19:13:00 - [13] Originally by: Jim McGregor Last week people whined about sniping, now its the sentry guns... The big problem here is that there is nobody in the low sec belts because they arent even close to being as profitable as missions. So the only way to catch prey as a pirate is to hang near the gates. Expect even more of it in the future, i would say. Actually if you read the post you'd know that it's not really a whine, it's a SUGGESTION, stop classifying everything as whine or simply don't post in the thread. I have no problems with piracy whatsoever, but i am slightly sad that the PvP in this game is so "inactive". I'd prefere more tactics, more excitement, not just the usual "find person on scanner, warp to location, open fire, done". I believe that there are interesting fights going on, but not nearly enough to make a real difference. maybe it's jsut me
Dark Shikari Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.18 19:17:00 - [14] Originally by: Terraform Originally by: Jim McGregor Last week people whined about sniping, now its the sentry guns... The big problem here is that there is nobody in the low sec belts because they arent even close to being as profitable as missions. So the only way to catch prey as a pirate is to hang near the gates. Expect even more of it in the future, i would say. Actually if you read the post you'd know that it's not really a whine, it's a SUGGESTION, stop classifying everything as whine or simply don't post in the thread. I have no problems with piracy whatsoever, but i am slightly sad that the PvP in this game is so "inactive". I'd prefere more tactics, more excitement, not just the usual "find person on scanner, warp to location, open fire, done". I believe that there are interesting fights going on, but not nearly enough to make a real difference. maybe it's jsut me I would think that considering the damage of sentry guns, fights at gates are anything but "inactive"... I know of an incident in which a Scorpion was killed by a Badger Mark II at a gate because of the sentries. If an industrial ship being able to kill a battleship isn't enough for you, I don't know what you want --Proud member of the [23]-- -WTS Heavy Electron II, 100mn AB II, Medium Warp Bubbles-
Terraform Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.18 19:23:00 - [15] Well, changing the subjects, why the hell are there so many pirates in low-sec (0.4-0.1)? Is it because they are too chicken to go to 0.0? because 0.0 is too camped by big alliances? or is it a third option, which i haven't mentioned yet? I went to a 0.2 zone yesterday and the place was seriously swarming with pirates (fighting each other, looked cool). Is it like this in all low-sec. or just a few busy points and zones?
Dark Shikari Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.18 19:28:00 - [16] Originally by: Terraform Well, changing the subjects, why the hell are there so many pirates in low-sec (0.4-0.1)? Is it because they are too chicken to go to 0.0? because 0.0 is too camped by big alliances? or is it a third option, which i haven't mentioned yet? I went to a 0.2 zone yesterday and the place was seriously swarming with pirates (fighting each other, looked cool). Is it like this in all low-sec. or just a few busy points and zones? No, its because there's more profit to be made in low sec. Its nearly impossible to make a profit PvPing in 0.0, because of a combination of alliances that will blob you to death and the fact that people, on average, are much more skilled out there. And nearly everyone has instas. Low sec is the only place where its remotely possible to make ISK PvPing, and even then its still pretty hard. --Proud member of the [23]-- -WTS Heavy Electron II, 100mn AB II, Medium Warp Bubbles-
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.18 19:29:00 - [17] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 18/07/2006 19:31:21 Originally by: Terraform Well, changing the subjects, why the hell are there so many pirates in low-sec (0.4-0.1)? Is it because they are too chicken to go to 0.0? because 0.0 is too camped by big alliances? or is it a third option, which i haven't mentioned yet? I went to a 0.2 zone yesterday and the place was seriously swarming with pirates (fighting each other, looked cool). Is it like this in all low-sec. or just a few busy points and zones? The difference between alot of pirates and 0.0 pvp'ers is that alot of pirates like to fight alone or in small groups. I know people that have left 0.0 because of all the blobbing going on. Its simply not as much fun as being alone or in a small group. If a solo pirate would try to venture out to 0.0, he would probably be chased down by the people claiming the area and spend most of his time at a station. Its quite hard to survive alone in 0.0. There are alot of pirates fighting eachother in some low sec systems, yeah. Simply because there often is a real shortage of other targets, and also because other pirates are more of a challenge. Unless they blob you, which is really boring. Edit: To DS... i dont know if people do it for the money. There are alot of better ways to make iskies in this game. I think its mostly for the excitement and fun. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Nyphur Pillowsoft Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.07.18 19:44:00 - [18] Sentries are fairly easy to tank. Even easier if there are more than one of you :). But if you even doubled their damage, I'd still tank them and everyone else would just resort to sniping. Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Terraform Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.18 21:11:00 - [19] Originally by: Nyphur Sentries are fairly easy to tank. Even easier if there are more than one of you :). But if you even doubled their damage, I'd still tank them and everyone else would just resort to sniping. true... I still find it a bit sad tho, that some people have to engage people while they are loading the area to win, but i guess that's the internet... full of people and as everyone knows, people suck
Minsc Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.18 21:12:00 - [20] Honestly they need to equip the sentry turrets with sensor dampeners to remove extreme range sniping and give player rats a way to grab their victims midwarp on their way to another object, get piracy away from set locations (gates/belts/etc) and allow them to set up anywhere in a system. I think it would be a good idea to get rid of warp bubbles as they are now and instead change them to a system similar to how the new scanning and scan probes will work. Instead of having one small/medium/large warp bubble, with each being a separate entity, have them linked up and working together to create a warp disruption field that's size and strength is determined by how they are set up. I.E. Small Warp Distrupter Node I Warp Scramble Strength: 1 Disruption Field Width: 5km Max Node Range: 10km 10km X 10km square with 5km width Medium Warp Distruptor Node I Warp Scramble Strength: 2 Disruption Field Width: 10km Max Node Range: 20km 20km X 20km square with 10km width Large Warp Disruptor Node I Warp Scramble Strength: 3 Disruption Field Width: 20km Max Node Range: 40km 40km X 40km square with 20km width In order for the field to become active you would need to place at least 2 nodes of the same size within their max node range. Once they are both onlined they can be linked and the field goes live. The shape of the field would be that of a square with the node itself at the centre. The field width is basically the thickness of the square and anyone caught by the field starts in the centre of the field. For example if the small node has a width of 5k, so those caught in it must travel 2.5k either forward or backwards to escape it. Obviously that is a little small but I'm just using it for simplicity's sake. Nodes placed at their maximum range would have the base scramble strength but if you place them closer together then they have the opportunity to stack based on the standard stacking equation. Also, once the nodes are linked and the field is active if a node is destroyed then all adjacent nodes suffer a 50% penalty to their scramble strength as they compensate for the missing node. This penalty would also stack for every adjacent node that gets destroyed. To determine if a ship gets caught in the field or not you would compare it's propulsion strength to the scramble strength and if the scramble strength is greater than or equal to the propulsion strength, then the ship is caught in the field (essentially the same as current mechanics). Bigger ships have bigger propulsion strengths (i.e 1 for frigate, 2 cruiser, 3 battleship). Warp core stabs would be changed so that instead of giving a set amount of points it would be a percentage of the ships base propulsion strength, again following stacking rules. Warp Core Stabs would also give a large penalty to the RoF of any weapons fitted to the ship as long as they were online to encourage people to use them for travel only. Named WCS's would give a higher boost to propulsion strength and a lesser penalty to RoF. Also people should be able to use these anywhere, with the following restrictions: 0.0 - none 0.4-0.1 - can't be setup at gates or stations unless configured to capture war targets only 0.5+ - must be configured to capture war targets only. I think this idea would allow pirates to be successful away from gates in lowsec as well as allowing corps to use them during war in high sec. It allow pirates to ransom more easily as well as allowing the prepared a chance to escape capture, meaning it would be easier to get into lowsec. Man this turned into an essay, anyways post your critiques/ideas here so we can discuss.
HippoKing Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.18 21:16:00 - [21] Originally by: Dark Shikari In empire wars, make an alt, and jetisson a can of 27500m3 of 800 charges. Sit next to it in your main's battleship. Continually feed 800 charges from the can into your ship: use two cap boosters if necessary if you have a really ridiculous tank. Nobody will be able to steal the stuff in the can fast enough, and you can always refill it with your alt. Finally, if anyone tries to shoot it, they get CONCORDOKKENed! haxxx!
Kadarin Blue Angels Mining Agency	Posted - 2006.07.18 21:22:00 - [22] Originally by: HippoKing Originally by: Dark Shikari In empire wars, make an alt, and jetisson a can of 27500m3 of 800 charges. Sit next to it in your main's battleship. Continually feed 800 charges from the can into your ship: use two cap boosters if necessary if you have a really ridiculous tank. Nobody will be able to steal the stuff in the can fast enough, and you can always refill it with your alt. Finally, if anyone tries to shoot it, they get CONCORDOKKENed! haxxx! So... Hypothetically speaking, if you ran a ship with lots of low slots and, say, 4 large T2 armor reps, how long could you tank CONCORD if you ran 4 heavy cap boosters in your mids?
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.18 21:25:00 - [23] Originally by: Kadarin So... Hypothetically speaking, if you ran a ship with lots of low slots and, say, 4 large T2 armor reps, how long could you tank CONCORD if you ran 4 heavy cap boosters in your mids? Its not that you run out of cap when tanking concord.. you will die with 90% cap. There is no way to tank their damage. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
HippoKing Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.18 21:33:00 - [24] Edited by: HippoKing on 18/07/2006 21:35:22 I ran some tests on tanking concord and station sentries in 0.9 for a while (thinking 3-5mins). Couldn't be done in a BS. Nowhere near. 4 Reps and 4 hards couldn't keep up with the damage IIRC. Yes, I wanted to see if would be theoretically possible to park outside 4-4 in jita, smartbombing everything which left. Of course, I'd need faction smartbombs. I was planning on losing the ship, just killing everything for a few minutes. Couldn't get banned for it (would obviously leave if a GM asked) as long as I lost the ship and all the appropriate sec. Would have been totally awesome. Couldn't be done Might be fun to try and do it at a gate as well, say the Kisogo gate in Jita Far less DPS there, and if used the trick to win you a couple of minutes against concord, you might do it. Pretty sure thats an exploit though, so of course I wouldn't do that. edit: all tests were on SiSi (obviously)
Tekka Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.18 21:55:00 - [25] I think sentries are easy to tank. »»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»
gfldex	Posted - 2006.07.18 22:28:00 - [26] Originally by: Terraform true... I still find it a bit sad tho, that some people have to engage people while they are loading the area to win You need more then 30 sec to load a system? You got a steam PC? -- $ perl -n -e 'print "Stop blameing pirates! Oveur is the root of all evil!\n" if m/podkill\|lost my ship\|gank\|gate camp\|Verone/;'
HippoKing Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.18 22:31:00 - [27] Originally by: Terraform true... I still find it a bit sad tho, that some people have to engage people while they are loading the area to win If your PC won't load before the cloak is out, I think you forgot to oil the cogs
Karash Amerius Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.18 23:09:00 - [28] If you are not solo, you can start the "tank" without cap boosters if you have a gangmate in an Auggy warp in and start supplying you with energy. He will have to vector for outbound warp once the guns switch to him but a quick hop and he is back helping the Battleship. The Auggy gives a great amount of cap to a battleship. Karash Amerius Tac Coordinator, OEC Merc Blog
Scythus Aratan Shadow Company Alektorophobia	Posted - 2006.07.18 23:56:00 - [29] You can tank Condord for about 15-20 minutes in a mothership, haven't tested a dread in siege but I assume you'd last until your stront runs out. If Chribba went pirate there could be some fun in Amarr .
Terraform Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.19 00:20:00 - [30] Originally by: HippoKing Originally by: Terraform true... I still find it a bit sad tho, that some people have to engage people while they are loading the area to win If your PC won't load before the cloak is out, I think you forgot to oil the cogs The problem is that i didn't cloak at all, i just remember seeing the red blink about 4 secs. after i activated the gate (no lag for me) i was being shot approx. 5-7 secs. after warping in. Had no time to defend, heck didn't even manage to pull out my drones and he had already put 2 or 3 NOS on me. I managed to keep my cap up and start my repper for about 7 secs. but it's just not enough when fighting an obviously superior ship (don't tell me i could escape a blasterthron at his optimal range). Whether it was a bug or some kind of trick i haven't figured out yet i don't care, I still stand in my suggestion that sentries shouldn't be tank-able. period.

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