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Terraform Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.18 18:48:00 - [1] Add more firepower to sentryguns, it seems so wrong that a single BS can tank the sentries for 5-10 mins. and then warp out. If the sentries actually had some punch in them it would make gatecamping a very desperate option and not just your everyday piracy-method. It would actually take some skills to tank and camp a gate then. Just an idea...
Novarei Ninth Column	Posted - 2006.07.18 18:52:00 - [2] Awww, but everyone would snipe then... --------------------
lofty29 Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.18 18:53:00 - [3] IIRC, most sentry guns are only large weaponry. They do a frackload of damage nehoo, and of all 4 damage types. It takes a cap booster tank to tank them, and a few nos will offset the pirate. Besides, its better than the old 20 pirates in tempests camping at 200km to instapop anything. --------------------------- Originally by: HippoKing ...I suck at forums
Jobie Thickburger Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.18 18:54:00 - [4] Not to say it doesn't take a good bit of skill to be able to sit and tank 2 sentry guns anyway.... but I see your point. Mabey up the DMG modifier on the low sec sentries or something, but then again, Lowsec isn't ment to be 100% safe anyway. You'll get both sides of the fence here Terraform, But personally, I like the Idea B/C i'm mostly a carebear, Whereas expect the pirates to start saying to get rid of em as it was in the olden days.... CEO - MGTTG
Kurren Farscape Mining	Posted - 2006.07.18 18:55:00 - [5] You say that until you're the one gate camping --- --- --- --- SobaKai.com
Dark Shikari Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.18 18:57:00 - [6] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 18/07/2006 18:56:53 I suggest you try tanking them before you say its quite easy to do so... The only way to "tank" sentry guns continuously with a single battleship and without faction equipment is to use a cap booster, and even then you'll have trouble without really good skills, and in addition any skilled pilot (even in a cruiser) will be able to break your tank with ease. The only way to tank for a long period is to put a can next to the gate filled with cap charges --Proud member of the [23]-- -WTS Heavy Electron II, 100mn AB II, Medium Warp Bubbles-
Terraform Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.18 18:58:00 - [7] There isn't really that big a difference, now they jsut camp 15 km from the gate, scrambles and webs everything that gets inside and pops it in a few secs. I highly doubt the damageoutput is so insane as a just saw a megathron tanking it alone, WHILE firing at me and not losing an inch of armor (so much for big damage). On the other hand maybe they should just boost sentries in general (both damage and range) that way piracy could still be performed, just not in the "i'm just sitting, waiting"-method. another suggestion would of course just be to remove the damn sentries and let everything be fair game, but that might be a bit drastic
Mi Lai Sanguine Legion Atrocitas	Posted - 2006.07.18 19:00:00 - [8] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 18/07/2006 18:56:53 I suggest you try tanking them before you say its quite easy to do so... The only way to "tank" sentry guns continuously with a single battleship and without faction equipment is to use a cap booster, and even then you'll have trouble without really good skills, and in addition any skilled pilot (even in a cruiser) will be able to break your tank with ease. The only way to tank for a long period is to put a can next to the gate filled with cap charges /me goes of to buy a Giant Secure Container and a truckload of 800 charges. Seems this thread is good for something anyway
Dark Shikari Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.18 19:03:00 - [9] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 18/07/2006 19:04:44 Originally by: Terraform There isn't really that big a difference, now they jsut camp 15 km from the gate, scrambles and webs everything that gets inside and pops it in a few secs. I highly doubt the damageoutput is so insane as a just saw a megathron tanking it alone, WHILE firing at me and not losing an inch of armor (so much for big damage). Yeah, the megathron can tank it alone, while you're not firing at it, and its using a cap booster. Originally by: Mi Lai Originally by: Dark Shikari I suggest you try tanking them before you say its quite easy to do so... The only way to "tank" sentry guns continuously with a single battleship and without faction equipment is to use a cap booster, and even then you'll have trouble without really good skills, and in addition any skilled pilot (even in a cruiser) will be able to break your tank with ease. The only way to tank for a long period is to put a can next to the gate filled with cap charges /me goes of to buy a Giant Secure Container and a truckload of 800 charges. Seems this thread is good for something anyway This is an ebil, ebil tactic. Want something better? In empire wars, make an alt, and jetisson a can of 27500m3 of 800 charges. Sit next to it in your main's battleship. Continually feed 800 charges from the can into your ship: use two cap boosters if necessary if you have a really ridiculous tank. Nobody will be able to steal the stuff in the can fast enough, and you can always refill it with your alt. Finally, if anyone tries to shoot it, they get CONCORDOKKENed! --Proud member of the [23]-- -WTS Heavy Electron II, 100mn AB II, Medium Warp Bubbles-
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.18 19:04:00 - [10] Last week people whined about sniping, now its the sentry guns... The big problem here is that there is nobody in the low sec belts because they arent even close to being as profitable as missions. So the only way to catch prey as a pirate is to hang near the gates. Expect even more of it in the future, i would say. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jane Vladmir Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.18 19:05:00 - [11] You've never camped a gate obviously.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.18 19:07:00 - [12] Originally by: Dark Shikari In empire wars, make an alt, and jetisson a can of 27500m3 of 800 charges. Sit next to it in your main's battleship. Continually feed 800 charges from the can into your ship: use two cap boosters if necessary if you have a really ridiculous tank. Nobody will be able to steal the stuff in the can fast enough, and you can always refill it with your alt. Finally, if anyone tries to shoot it, they get CONCORDOKKENed! PvP in this game can be really sad... --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Terraform Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.18 19:13:00 - [13] Originally by: Jim McGregor Last week people whined about sniping, now its the sentry guns... The big problem here is that there is nobody in the low sec belts because they arent even close to being as profitable as missions. So the only way to catch prey as a pirate is to hang near the gates. Expect even more of it in the future, i would say. Actually if you read the post you'd know that it's not really a whine, it's a SUGGESTION, stop classifying everything as whine or simply don't post in the thread. I have no problems with piracy whatsoever, but i am slightly sad that the PvP in this game is so "inactive". I'd prefere more tactics, more excitement, not just the usual "find person on scanner, warp to location, open fire, done". I believe that there are interesting fights going on, but not nearly enough to make a real difference. maybe it's jsut me
Dark Shikari Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.18 19:17:00 - [14] Originally by: Terraform Originally by: Jim McGregor Last week people whined about sniping, now its the sentry guns... The big problem here is that there is nobody in the low sec belts because they arent even close to being as profitable as missions. So the only way to catch prey as a pirate is to hang near the gates. Expect even more of it in the future, i would say. Actually if you read the post you'd know that it's not really a whine, it's a SUGGESTION, stop classifying everything as whine or simply don't post in the thread. I have no problems with piracy whatsoever, but i am slightly sad that the PvP in this game is so "inactive". I'd prefere more tactics, more excitement, not just the usual "find person on scanner, warp to location, open fire, done". I believe that there are interesting fights going on, but not nearly enough to make a real difference. maybe it's jsut me I would think that considering the damage of sentry guns, fights at gates are anything but "inactive"... I know of an incident in which a Scorpion was killed by a Badger Mark II at a gate because of the sentries. If an industrial ship being able to kill a battleship isn't enough for you, I don't know what you want --Proud member of the [23]-- -WTS Heavy Electron II, 100mn AB II, Medium Warp Bubbles-
Terraform Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.18 19:23:00 - [15] Well, changing the subjects, why the hell are there so many pirates in low-sec (0.4-0.1)? Is it because they are too chicken to go to 0.0? because 0.0 is too camped by big alliances? or is it a third option, which i haven't mentioned yet? I went to a 0.2 zone yesterday and the place was seriously swarming with pirates (fighting each other, looked cool). Is it like this in all low-sec. or just a few busy points and zones?
Dark Shikari Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.18 19:28:00 - [16] Originally by: Terraform Well, changing the subjects, why the hell are there so many pirates in low-sec (0.4-0.1)? Is it because they are too chicken to go to 0.0? because 0.0 is too camped by big alliances? or is it a third option, which i haven't mentioned yet? I went to a 0.2 zone yesterday and the place was seriously swarming with pirates (fighting each other, looked cool). Is it like this in all low-sec. or just a few busy points and zones? No, its because there's more profit to be made in low sec. Its nearly impossible to make a profit PvPing in 0.0, because of a combination of alliances that will blob you to death and the fact that people, on average, are much more skilled out there. And nearly everyone has instas. Low sec is the only place where its remotely possible to make ISK PvPing, and even then its still pretty hard. --Proud member of the [23]-- -WTS Heavy Electron II, 100mn AB II, Medium Warp Bubbles-
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.18 19:29:00 - [17] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 18/07/2006 19:31:21 Originally by: Terraform Well, changing the subjects, why the hell are there so many pirates in low-sec (0.4-0.1)? Is it because they are too chicken to go to 0.0? because 0.0 is too camped by big alliances? or is it a third option, which i haven't mentioned yet? I went to a 0.2 zone yesterday and the place was seriously swarming with pirates (fighting each other, looked cool). Is it like this in all low-sec. or just a few busy points and zones? The difference between alot of pirates and 0.0 pvp'ers is that alot of pirates like to fight alone or in small groups. I know people that have left 0.0 because of all the blobbing going on. Its simply not as much fun as being alone or in a small group. If a solo pirate would try to venture out to 0.0, he would probably be chased down by the people claiming the area and spend most of his time at a station. Its quite hard to survive alone in 0.0. There are alot of pirates fighting eachother in some low sec systems, yeah. Simply because there often is a real shortage of other targets, and also because other pirates are more of a challenge. Unless they blob you, which is really boring. Edit: To DS... i dont know if people do it for the money. There are alot of better ways to make iskies in this game. I think its mostly for the excitement and fun. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Nyphur Pillowsoft Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.07.18 19:44:00 - [18] Sentries are fairly easy to tank. Even easier if there are more than one of you :). But if you even doubled their damage, I'd still tank them and everyone else would just resort to sniping. Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Terraform Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.18 21:11:00 - [19] Originally by: Nyphur Sentries are fairly easy to tank. Even easier if there are more than one of you :). But if you even doubled their damage, I'd still tank them and everyone else would just resort to sniping. true... I still find it a bit sad tho, that some people have to engage people while they are loading the area to win, but i guess that's the internet... full of people and as everyone knows, people suck
Minsc Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.18 21:12:00 - [20] Honestly they need to equip the sentry turrets with sensor dampeners to remove extreme range sniping and give player rats a way to grab their victims midwarp on their way to another object, get piracy away from set locations (gates/belts/etc) and allow them to set up anywhere in a system. I think it would be a good idea to get rid of warp bubbles as they are now and instead change them to a system similar to how the new scanning and scan probes will work. Instead of having one small/medium/large warp bubble, with each being a separate entity, have them linked up and working together to create a warp disruption field that's size and strength is determined by how they are set up. I.E. Small Warp Distrupter Node I Warp Scramble Strength: 1 Disruption Field Width: 5km Max Node Range: 10km 10km X 10km square with 5km width Medium Warp Distruptor Node I Warp Scramble Strength: 2 Disruption Field Width: 10km Max Node Range: 20km 20km X 20km square with 10km width Large Warp Disruptor Node I Warp Scramble Strength: 3 Disruption Field Width: 20km Max Node Range: 40km 40km X 40km square with 20km width In order for the field to become active you would need to place at least 2 nodes of the same size within their max node range. Once they are both onlined they can be linked and the field goes live. The shape of the field would be that of a square with the node itself at the centre. The field width is basically the thickness of the square and anyone caught by the field starts in the centre of the field. For example if the small node has a width of 5k, so those caught in it must travel 2.5k either forward or backwards to escape it. Obviously that is a little small but I'm just using it for simplicity's sake. Nodes placed at their maximum range would have the base scramble strength but if you place them closer together then they have the opportunity to stack based on the standard stacking equation. Also, once the nodes are linked and the field is active if a node is destroyed then all adjacent nodes suffer a 50% penalty to their scramble strength as they compensate for the missing node. This penalty would also stack for every adjacent node that gets destroyed. To determine if a ship gets caught in the field or not you would compare it's propulsion strength to the scramble strength and if the scramble strength is greater than or equal to the propulsion strength, then the ship is caught in the field (essentially the same as current mechanics). Bigger ships have bigger propulsion strengths (i.e 1 for frigate, 2 cruiser, 3 battleship). Warp core stabs would be changed so that instead of giving a set amount of points it would be a percentage of the ships base propulsion strength, again following stacking rules. Warp Core Stabs would also give a large penalty to the RoF of any weapons fitted to the ship as long as they were online to encourage people to use them for travel only. Named WCS's would give a higher boost to propulsion strength and a lesser penalty to RoF. Also people should be able to use these anywhere, with the following restrictions: 0.0 - none 0.4-0.1 - can't be setup at gates or stations unless configured to capture war targets only 0.5+ - must be configured to capture war targets only. I think this idea would allow pirates to be successful away from gates in lowsec as well as allowing corps to use them during war in high sec. It allow pirates to ransom more easily as well as allowing the prepared a chance to escape capture, meaning it would be easier to get into lowsec. Man this turned into an essay, anyways post your critiques/ideas here so we can discuss.
HippoKing Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.18 21:16:00 - [21] Originally by: Dark Shikari In empire wars, make an alt, and jetisson a can of 27500m3 of 800 charges. Sit next to it in your main's battleship. Continually feed 800 charges from the can into your ship: use two cap boosters if necessary if you have a really ridiculous tank. Nobody will be able to steal the stuff in the can fast enough, and you can always refill it with your alt. Finally, if anyone tries to shoot it, they get CONCORDOKKENed! haxxx!
Kadarin Blue Angels Mining Agency	Posted - 2006.07.18 21:22:00 - [22] Originally by: HippoKing Originally by: Dark Shikari In empire wars, make an alt, and jetisson a can of 27500m3 of 800 charges. Sit next to it in your main's battleship. Continually feed 800 charges from the can into your ship: use two cap boosters if necessary if you have a really ridiculous tank. Nobody will be able to steal the stuff in the can fast enough, and you can always refill it with your alt. Finally, if anyone tries to shoot it, they get CONCORDOKKENed! haxxx! So... Hypothetically speaking, if you ran a ship with lots of low slots and, say, 4 large T2 armor reps, how long could you tank CONCORD if you ran 4 heavy cap boosters in your mids?
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.18 21:25:00 - [23] Originally by: Kadarin So... Hypothetically speaking, if you ran a ship with lots of low slots and, say, 4 large T2 armor reps, how long could you tank CONCORD if you ran 4 heavy cap boosters in your mids? Its not that you run out of cap when tanking concord.. you will die with 90% cap. There is no way to tank their damage. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
HippoKing Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.18 21:33:00 - [24] Edited by: HippoKing on 18/07/2006 21:35:22 I ran some tests on tanking concord and station sentries in 0.9 for a while (thinking 3-5mins). Couldn't be done in a BS. Nowhere near. 4 Reps and 4 hards couldn't keep up with the damage IIRC. Yes, I wanted to see if would be theoretically possible to park outside 4-4 in jita, smartbombing everything which left. Of course, I'd need faction smartbombs. I was planning on losing the ship, just killing everything for a few minutes. Couldn't get banned for it (would obviously leave if a GM asked) as long as I lost the ship and all the appropriate sec. Would have been totally awesome. Couldn't be done Might be fun to try and do it at a gate as well, say the Kisogo gate in Jita Far less DPS there, and if used the trick to win you a couple of minutes against concord, you might do it. Pretty sure thats an exploit though, so of course I wouldn't do that. edit: all tests were on SiSi (obviously)
Tekka Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.18 21:55:00 - [25] I think sentries are easy to tank. »»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»
gfldex	Posted - 2006.07.18 22:28:00 - [26] Originally by: Terraform true... I still find it a bit sad tho, that some people have to engage people while they are loading the area to win You need more then 30 sec to load a system? You got a steam PC? -- $ perl -n -e 'print "Stop blameing pirates! Oveur is the root of all evil!\n" if m/podkill\|lost my ship\|gank\|gate camp\|Verone/;'
HippoKing Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.18 22:31:00 - [27] Originally by: Terraform true... I still find it a bit sad tho, that some people have to engage people while they are loading the area to win If your PC won't load before the cloak is out, I think you forgot to oil the cogs
Karash Amerius Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.18 23:09:00 - [28] If you are not solo, you can start the "tank" without cap boosters if you have a gangmate in an Auggy warp in and start supplying you with energy. He will have to vector for outbound warp once the guns switch to him but a quick hop and he is back helping the Battleship. The Auggy gives a great amount of cap to a battleship. Karash Amerius Tac Coordinator, OEC Merc Blog
Scythus Aratan Shadow Company Alektorophobia	Posted - 2006.07.18 23:56:00 - [29] You can tank Condord for about 15-20 minutes in a mothership, haven't tested a dread in siege but I assume you'd last until your stront runs out. If Chribba went pirate there could be some fun in Amarr .
Terraform Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.19 00:20:00 - [30] Originally by: HippoKing Originally by: Terraform true... I still find it a bit sad tho, that some people have to engage people while they are loading the area to win If your PC won't load before the cloak is out, I think you forgot to oil the cogs The problem is that i didn't cloak at all, i just remember seeing the red blink about 4 secs. after i activated the gate (no lag for me) i was being shot approx. 5-7 secs. after warping in. Had no time to defend, heck didn't even manage to pull out my drones and he had already put 2 or 3 NOS on me. I managed to keep my cap up and start my repper for about 7 secs. but it's just not enough when fighting an obviously superior ship (don't tell me i could escape a blasterthron at his optimal range). Whether it was a bug or some kind of trick i haven't figured out yet i don't care, I still stand in my suggestion that sentries shouldn't be tank-able. period.
Blind Man Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.19 00:24:00 - [31] there didnt use to be sentries, and its because of people like you that they were implemented
Jonis Sinmaker Valiant Logistics Inc. Center for Disease Creation	Posted - 2006.07.19 00:37:00 - [32] Edited by: Jonis Sinmaker on 19/07/2006 00:38:03 Originally by: Terraform Add more firepower to sentryguns, it seems so wrong that a single BS can tank the sentries for 5-10 mins. and then warp out. If the sentries actually had some punch in them it would make gatecamping a very desperate option and not just your everyday piracy-method. It would actually take some skills to tank and camp a gate then. Just an idea... Listen here chuckle nuts...If you were in low sec and you got popped...then thats the "risk" of being in low sec...it's why it's there. CCP encourages pirating to make the game interesting...if life was easy it would be WOW...so I doubt they are going to make the gate guns more powerful so you can travel with ease in low sec. Also if you think it takes no skills to tank a gate gun then go do it....let me know how fast your inbox blinks because you lost your ship.
Terraform Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.19 01:12:00 - [33] Originally by: Jonis Sinmaker Edited by: Jonis Sinmaker on 19/07/2006 00:38:03 Originally by: Terraform Add more firepower to sentryguns, it seems so wrong that a single BS can tank the sentries for 5-10 mins. and then warp out. If the sentries actually had some punch in them it would make gatecamping a very desperate option and not just your everyday piracy-method. It would actually take some skills to tank and camp a gate then. Just an idea... Listen here chuckle nuts...If you were in low sec and you got popped...then thats the "risk" of being in low sec...it's why it's there. CCP encourages pirating to make the game interesting...if life was easy it would be WOW...so I doubt they are going to make the gate guns more powerful so you can travel with ease in low sec. Also if you think it takes no skills to tank a gate gun then go do it....let me know how fast your inbox blinks because you lost your ship. Hey no need for personal insults please, this is a suggestion, take it or leave it, leave constructive input or get the hell out of the thread if you can't behave properly. As i see it, if sentries were to be boosted it would add more creative ways of finding targets in low-sec. space, you are free to disagree, but don't go into insults, irrelevant information about CCP's attitude towards a certain playerbase or just plain nonesense. Respond in a constructive and polite manner, or get the hell out! thank you.
burek A.W.M	Posted - 2006.07.19 01:54:00 - [34] Originally by: Terraform Hey no need for personal insults please, this is a suggestion, take it or leave it, leave constructive input or get the hell out of the thread if you can't behave properly. As i see it, if sentries were to be boosted it would add more creative ways of finding targets in low-sec. space, you are free to disagree, but don't go into insults, irrelevant information about CCP's attitude towards a certain playerbase or just plain nonesense. Respond in a constructive and polite manner, or get the hell out! thank you. I'd love to post something constructive but I get the feeling that constructive to you means agreeing with you and nothing else. Your judgement is clouded because you got blown up and are a bit upset. Just a couple tips for you. Do yourself a favour and find out about past suggestions and demands for uber NPC protection (along these same thoughts that you are having) and what evolved from those implementations. Also, grass is always greener on the other side.
Arashi Miike Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.19 06:46:00 - [35] Forget messing with sentry damage. It's pretty hard to tank them solo, and dangerous, at that. If you have that capability and are willing to take that risk, you probably deserve to be able to camp. What they really need is to have their ranged increased to maximum lock range to prevent gate sniping which, unlike solo tanking the sentries, takes next to no skill and entails next to no risk. "I should have been a pair of ragged claws/ scuttling across the floors of silent seas."
HippoKing Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.19 07:00:00 - [36] Originally by: Terraform Originally by: HippoKing Originally by: Terraform true... I still find it a bit sad tho, that some people have to engage people while they are loading the area to win If your PC won't load before the cloak is out, I think you forgot to oil the cogs The problem is that i didn't cloak at all, i just remember seeing the red blink about 4 secs. after i activated the gate (no lag for me) i was being shot approx. 5-7 secs. after warping in. Had no time to defend, heck didn't even manage to pull out my drones and he had already put 2 or 3 NOS on me. I managed to keep my cap up and start my repper for about 7 secs. but it's just not enough when fighting an obviously superior ship (don't tell me i could escape a blasterthron at his optimal range). Whether it was a bug or some kind of trick i haven't figured out yet i don't care, I still stand in my suggestion that sentries shouldn't be tank-able. period. Did you have autopilot on?
Maximillian Pele	Posted - 2006.07.19 07:11:00 - [37] If you are scrambled and webbed by someone who is tanking the sentry guns, then for God's sake FIRE BACK. A sentry tanker isn't going to ransom you, they are going to destroy your ship. A sentry tanker is running on borrowed time in most cases - so shoot at the SOB. I have shot my way through a gate camp in a Ferox because the sentry tanker had to warp out when their ship was almost out of armour. If I had fitted a scrambler, then they would have died, not me. Of course you may run into a sentry tanker whose setup is such that you stand no chance, but given your going to loose anyway fire back. Forget kill rights - fight to survive. You just may make it.
Novarei Ninth Column	Posted - 2006.07.19 07:12:00 - [38] Gotta love the 'if you dont post something i like dont post at all' threads, they're getting more numerous. --------------------
Seleene Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.07.19 07:13:00 - [39] Originally by: Dark Shikari In empire wars, make an alt, and jetisson a can of 27500m3 of 800 charges. Sit next to it in your main's battleship. Continually feed 800 charges from the can into your ship: use two cap boosters if necessary if you have a really ridiculous tank. Nobody will be able to steal the stuff in the can fast enough, and you can always refill it with your alt. Finally, if anyone tries to shoot it, they get CONCORDOKKENed! That is lustfully evil! - History of the MC movie!
Lechap Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.19 07:16:00 - [40] oh nvm lol _____________________ <TomB> hmmm what is that pink thing? <Urban_Mongral>???? <TomB> what is this pink stuff? <TomB> nm chilli sauce on my screen
Lechap Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.19 07:16:00 - [41] Edited by: Lechap on 19/07/2006 07:19:07 what if someone shoots the can heh lol duh nvm _____________________ <TomB> hmmm what is that pink thing? <Urban_Mongral>???? <TomB> what is this pink stuff? <TomB> nm chilli sauce on my screen
Eralus	Posted - 2006.07.19 07:30:00 - [42] Originally by: Jonis Sinmaker Listen here chuckle nuts...If you were in low sec and you got popped...then thats the "risk" of being in low sec...it's why it's there. CCP encourages pirating to make the game interesting...if life was easy it would be WOW...so I doubt they are going to make the gate guns more powerful so you can travel with ease in low sec. See, I understand what people are thinking here, but I don't think they understand what actually happens. I think there would be more people in low-sec if it was virtually impossible to get gate-ganked, and thus also more PvP in lowsec. Give people a little breathing room to get around and blast them at stations or belts. It's kinda like fishing with dynamite - it's too easy, and you end up with so many dead fish that there's nothing for anybody else to catch. If we wern't making it so easy to kill people the second they step from 0.5 to 0.4 (basically saying 'never do that again if you want to live') there'd be more people willing to make that step. In 0.5 you're fairly safe everywhere. In 0.4 to 0.1, the range of the sentry guns should be extended to beyond the maximum range of any ship, plus 25 km. In 0.4, have those guns powerful enough to blast pretty much anything fairly quickly. In 0.1, have them be kinda annoying, but tankable with a couple ships and a decent setup, and have 0.2 and 0.3 be somewhere in between. I think it's bad game design that there's this HUGE step from near total safety in 0.5 to near instagank in 0.4 for a lot of people. Let people at least get through the gate into 0.4 unmolested and wander around a 0.4 system a bit before they get jumped on by pirates, and give them a decent shot to get back to a gate where they're relatively safe again. Then 0.3 is a bit harder than that, then 0.2 is a bit harder than that, etc. _____ Lifewire is a big, ugly, mean... carebear.
Nicholai Pestot Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.19 07:36:00 - [43] Originally by: Terraform Originally by: Jonis Sinmaker Edited by: Jonis Sinmaker on 19/07/2006 00:38:03 Originally by: Terraform Add more firepower to sentryguns, it seems so wrong that a single BS can tank the sentries for 5-10 mins. and then warp out. If the sentries actually had some punch in them it would make gatecamping a very desperate option and not just your everyday piracy-method. It would actually take some skills to tank and camp a gate then. Just an idea... Listen here chuckle nuts...If you were in low sec and you got popped...then thats the "risk" of being in low sec...it's why it's there. CCP encourages pirating to make the game interesting...if life was easy it would be WOW...so I doubt they are going to make the gate guns more powerful so you can travel with ease in low sec. Also if you think it takes no skills to tank a gate gun then go do it....let me know how fast your inbox blinks because you lost your ship. Hey no need for personal insults please, this is a suggestion, take it or leave it, leave constructive input or get the hell out of the thread if you can't behave properly. As i see it, if sentries were to be boosted it would add more creative ways of finding targets in low-sec. space, you are free to disagree, but don't go into insults, irrelevant information about CCP's attitude towards a certain playerbase or just plain nonesense. Respond in a constructive and polite manner, or get the hell out! thank you. 1.This is the general discussion forum. If you want to make a suggestion, roll down a few forums to the Features and Ideas Discussion. If you post something in General chat and people think your being stupid....expect to be told so very clearly. 2.Tanking gates is not hard, you are correct. If i can do it in a plated thorax long enough to pop an industrial ship, sort through the loot and then warp out then its not exactly tough. HOWEVER due to the fact that there is this little thing called local, there is literally no way to catch a smart person un-awares away from sentry turrets in lowsec.The only way to have a hope in hell of catching someone with more than a little experiance is to grab them at the gate. Now if you make turrets far more powerfull, all this means is solo gate campers will go the way of the dodo (yes, eaten by sailors) and you will instead get Charley Foxtrotted by multiple battleships all the time as the lone pirates are forced to hunt in large packs. Currently, fitting a few ECM mods, or a travel setup (MWD+Nanofibers) or just using the goddamn sense that god gave you to look at ship kills in the last hour on the map and use the free built in scanner will make you safe from solo gate tankers.There will be no such escape from massed lowsec camps. 3.There are no rules in 0.0. PvP there is being a warrior,not a pirate preying on the week.Piracy is now the hardest profession in the game, with the most risks and the most infrequent pay-offs. Funnily enough this means that the succesfull pirates are some of the most adaptive, intelligent and resourcefull pilots in the game (with some notable exceptions). If you make their life harder they will carry on and simply hit you harder with even greater overwhelming odds than before. ________________ What you do is you store up the rage, let it fester while you gain strength, then use it to gank those weaker than you... and so the circle of life is complete
Mangold Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.07.19 08:16:00 - [44] A few small thoughts about the suggestions to improve gate guns. 1. There were no sentry guns earlier. Their range and damage output has been increased already. 2. It is NOT easy to tank sentry guns. If you think that you obviously haven't tried it yourself. It is possible solo but only for a short time and with a setup designed specially for tanking sentrys. That setup has its weaknesses and the ship is vulnarable to attacks if the attacker knows what he is doing. 3. Low sec is supposed to be dangerous. Remember the pop up that you see the first time you jump into 0.4? 4. Pirates camps gates as that's the place most people travel through. If you increase the damage output and range of the guns where would the pirates go? To belts to kill miners? That's not even close to enough targets there. Another option would be to bring more ships to a gate and that wouldn't really solve your problem, would it?
Kareltje	Posted - 2006.07.19 08:41:00 - [45] If you want something done about the ebil pierats, use the existing game mechanics to your advantage and do something. Don't come here whining (yes, whining) about how unfair it is that they popped you before you knew what was going on. Learn how to play the game as it is, stop asking for changes that (you think) will make it easier for you.
Avon Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.19 08:42:00 - [46] I'd much rather see pirates close to the gate than ... er ... well, other pirates, 200km away. At least if they are close to the gate you can drop by in a nos domi and kill them all. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
hUssmann Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.19 08:54:00 - [47] We can't snipe - It's lame We can't sentry tank - Sentries are too weak even though their DPS is calculated as between 170-240 DPS per gun, and if you expect me to ransom you whilst i barely tank the guns and you're going 'OMG PIRATES HELP AT **** GATE IM DYING HELP HELP' in local you've got another thing coming. We can't kill/ransom people in belts - They aren't fit for PvP/They're mining it's unfair. We can't use bubbles in 0.4-0.1 /me remembers the days of no sentry guns. ___________________________ Eris, no pink 'Eris woz 'ere 2006' kthx :)
Epsilon 1 mUfFiN fAcToRy	Posted - 2006.07.19 08:56:00 - [48] OP: I want you to see take out a bs solo while tanking sentries and holding the target in place Originally by: Steven Gerrard Why do those minmatarians throw their ships together from toilet paper and junk?
Ozzie Asrail Hybrid Syndicate	Posted - 2006.07.19 09:09:00 - [49] Either it was a bug or you accidently double clicked somewhere and uncloaked yourself. Or can you be uncloaked at a gate by a close ship like a regular cloaking device? Never seen that happen myself. Either way this is a whine rather than a suggestion sincve you simply want to get rid of the ability to camp a gate totally. Insta's, scouts, shooting back, map, scanner all can be used to avoid getting killed . -----
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.19 09:35:00 - [50] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 19/07/2006 09:35:58 Originally by: Eralus I think there would be more people in low-sec if it was virtually impossible to get gate-ganked, and thus also more PvP in lowsec. Give people a little breathing room to get around and blast them at stations or belts. I disagree. There is virtually no reason at all for people to be in low sec except for when they have to travel through it to go somewhere else. The mining is not very profitable compared to running missions in high sec and the ratting is a joke. So you really do have to be at the gates to get kills. If the gates were impossible to camp, then low sec would be almost as safe as high sec. You can camp stations as well though... can be fun sometimes. I agree that if you get attacked at a gate, you will not get ransomed. There is no time, since the pirate is taking heavy damage from the sentries (unless he is sniping). Travel with warp disruptors and a good tank and you might find yourself watching that pirate get blown up. Then you can steal HIS loot. That will make you smile. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Lifewire Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.19 09:39:00 - [51] Carebears = weaklings Add more firepower to carebears, it seems so wrong that a single BS can tank carebears for 5-10 mins. and then warp out. If the carebears actually had some punch in them it would make gatecamping a very desperate option and not just your everyday piracy-method. It would actually take some skills to tank and camp a gate then. Just an idea... Forum:http://www.tundragon.com/forum/ Movies:http://www.tundragon.com/pub/eveclips Killboard:http://www.tundragon.com/
nahtoh Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.19 10:01:00 - [52] Bah extend the range but beyond the current range lower the damage...Persoanly I have no problems with pirates sitting on a gate,low sec snipers on the other had really annoy me a great deal. I much prefer losing a ship to someone tanking the gate turrets than a sniper or bunch of snipers. Before anybody jumps on me for being a for being anti pirate with this suggestion I don't mind losing ships to tanking pirates so much. If they remove instas then they need to do something about the long range low sec snipers... ========= "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.19 10:05:00 - [53] Originally by: hUssmann Edited by: hUssmann on 19/07/2006 08:58:46 We can't snipe - It's lame We can't sentry tank - Sentries are too weak even though their DPS is calculated as between 170-240 DPS per gun, and if you expect me to ransom you whilst i barely tank the guns and you're going 'OMG PIRATES HELP AT **** GATE IM DYING HELP HELP' in local you've got another thing coming. We can't kill/ransom people in belts - They aren't fit for PvP/They're mining it's unfair. We can't use bubbles in 0.4-0.1 /me remembers the days of no sentry guns. Face it, 0.4-0.1 ratting/mining is not profitable, you can run Lvl3/Lvl4 in high sec but if the GM's nerf your missions you complain 'Omg now i have to get out of the concord sandbox to make isk, omg nerf piracy' We can mine though. I think its considered OK. Seriously, people complaining about pirate tactics in low sec needs to address ccp with their concerns. Make it possible for pirates to pirate in low sec without using these tactics you judge as "lame" and we will. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Nicole KholdStare Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.19 10:14:00 - [54] Rough Translation of OP's post: I was being silly and got myself owned by a lone megathron. From this single occurence I have correctly induced that Sentryguns are underpowered since they failed to save my lazy ass. Please CCP make them stronger so I don't have to use my grey matter to evade campers, give me a system-wide smartbomb and a trillion isk because I'm on of those guys who wants everyhting handed to him on a silver platter. Oh and if I ever happen to die I want the offending party changed/wiped out so as to further my enjoyment of the game since I missed the part where it says Multi Massive. In short, I am God, and you should all bow to my will. Nerf Sentries!!!!
Alliaanna Dalaii Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.19 10:40:00 - [55] To the Op: I cant be bothered to read the replies to this thread, Im sure the forum users with a clue flamed you and the brainless carebear alts agreed with you..... so let me summarise your post. How your post Should have read. Dear CCP and ebil players, I am trully crap at this game and fail to understand the concepts that this game is based on. Furthermore I got owned due to my complete lack of knowledge of game mechanics and inability to use my grey matter. Please nerf piracy so that I can win, thanks. A clueless noob. ........................................................... Now i'm sorry if you see that as smack or a personal insult... ITS not ! Im simply stating facts. I can 100% guarentee you have never camped a gate while sentry tanking in your life. And have absolutely no idea about relevant game mechanics in this area of the game. Think its easy still solo ? Go try it Alliaanna Official Spokestard of=-= Does Not Compute =-=
Arngorf Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.19 11:00:00 - [56] okay I tank sentrys on a daily basis.. My ship is dedicated to tank sentries.. I can take out everything smaller than a bc.. and since I'm avoiding to get sentry fire when a target (battlecruiser or bigger) is near, the only thing that can kill me is a frigate with a 20 km scrambler on... in other words.. to take me down I need to be either drunk, unlucky, half-sleeping or someone should have set up a frigate dedicated for killing me.. I cant see no problem in that... Its not like I get huge amounts of isk for killing everyone I can, that passes by.. its easier to take the first 2 stages in a 6/10 complex and the earnings are about 15 times as big in general.. even doing missions will get u more money than gate camping... Once I though the sentrys should do less damage but reading your post I found out they are just fine as they are... as long as the only ship u can tank sentrys effectivly in are a bs.. And while putting it on the edge of losing it attacking ppl I think I can handle is what makes it all fair.. if I lose my bs I'll lose 130 mil isk... 30 for a new insurance and 100 mil for the mods... Bc's can too.. but its far too risky on your own... ________________________________________________ FORMER!!! I said FORMER Pirate...
Merasa Tro	Posted - 2006.07.19 11:37:00 - [57] How about changing the weapons that the sentry guns use. I'm more familiar with missiles so i'll use them as an example...But i think same might apply with guns. If you used bigger missiles (torpedoes) less of the damage is applied to smaller ships, due to explosion velocity and signature radius. That would mean it would be possible for pirates to rat in speedy tanked AFs maybe HACs. But tanked BS would take more of a pounding. So if you jump into a system, being faced with a pirate in a frig dodging torps, would make for a more exciting fight that a lone BS sitting there taking the hits. It'd mean theres a chance either of you could win or warp away, or die. Just my 2pence worth
Alliaanna Dalaii Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.19 12:03:00 - [58] Originally by: Merasa Tro How about changing the weapons that the sentry guns use. I'm more familiar with missiles so i'll use them as an example...But i think same might apply with guns. If you used bigger missiles (torpedoes) less of the damage is applied to smaller ships, due to explosion velocity and signature radius. That would mean it would be possible for pirates to rat in speedy tanked AFs maybe HACs. But tanked BS would take more of a pounding. So if you jump into a system, being faced with a pirate in a frig dodging torps, would make for a more exciting fight that a lone BS sitting there taking the hits. It'd mean theres a chance either of you could win or warp away, or die. Just my 2pence worth Thats actually an interesting idea. The only flaw I see in it is that 2-3 well placed battleships with Medium II smartbombs ( Do they still pwn torps in 1 ? I know they used too.....) could render the torps completely obselete. Cue: Cepty gang at gate and death to all Alliaanna Official Spokestard of=-= Does Not Compute =-=
Max Teranous Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.07.19 12:18:00 - [59] I much prefer a sentry tanker than a sniper. A sniper 200km away can align and warp out before any ceptor can close the distance, and a sniper can usually afford 2 lows for stabs. A sentry tanker almost certainly needs the lows to tank rather than stabs, and he's only a couple of km away so can get jumped on easily. I say remove sentry guns. Us poor frig pilots can't low sec gate pirate at all Max
Vint Rotach	Posted - 2006.07.19 12:27:00 - [60] ---------------- Thats actually an interesting idea. The only flaw I see in it is that 2-3 well placed battleships with Medium II smartbombs ( Do they still pwn torps in 1 ? I know they used too.....) could render the torps completely obselete ---------------- Fair point see where you're coming from. You could create uber turret torps that dont get effected by smartbombs or defenders. Or as another idea. Use turrets positioned close into the gates, give them REALLY long range to get snipers, but REALLY lame tracking. That means that they can hit big/slow/distant camps. But close in, speedy small ships can dodge the shots.
Drasked Total Failure	Posted - 2006.07.19 13:09:00 - [61] Originally by: Terraform As i see it, if sentries were to be boosted it would add more creative ways of finding targets in low-sec. space. No. Everyone will resort to sniping wich is not creative at all... The only improvement i see in this whole idea is that YOU will be able to travle around with more ease. It looks a bit obvious that you got ganked by a sentry tanker and are bitter about it.. and becouse of this your opinions are biased for a set period of 3 months and within that time you are not allowed to make suggestions about game mechanics, hmmk?
Minsc Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.19 15:24:00 - [62] I guess everyone skipped my post then, I realize it rambled, but wouldn't adding sensor damps to sentry guns remove the lame sniping from low-sec gates? Make the guns able to target at like 300km and damp any ship down to about 100km or whatever the max gun range is. That should technically eliminate the sniping problem. Tanking the sentry guns is fine IMO but I would like to see pirates have more opportunities to ply their trade away from celestial objects if possible.
Vanlade	Posted - 2006.07.19 16:53:00 - [63] Remove sentry guns from 0.4 and below. Then we can have the old day of piracy back, where the pirates have the opportunity to scan you and ask a ransom instead of simply ganking then warping out due to sentries.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.19 16:59:00 - [64] Originally by: Vanlade Remove sentry guns from 0.4 and below. Then we can have the old day of piracy back, where the pirates have the opportunity to scan you and ask a ransom instead of simply ganking then warping out due to sentries. Hehe, i made a post about this when i was new and ive never been so flamed in my life. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Kilo Paskaa Beer and Kebabs Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.07.19 17:08:00 - [65] Kilo Paskaa¦s guide. HOW TO SURVIVE ONE BS CAMP? F1, F2, F3, F4, F5, F6, F7 ,F8. Congratulations! You graduate! Seriously. Increase the damage and you will see me 200km away. Thats better?
Kilo Paskaa Beer and Kebabs Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.07.19 17:10:00 - [66] Originally by: Vanlade Remove sentry guns from 0.4 and below. Then we can have the old day of piracy back, where the pirates have the opportunity to scan you and ask a ransom instead of simply ganking then warping out due to sentries. Cookie for him. I approve that idea. /me gets into flame resistant suit.
Avon Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.21 11:02:00 - [67] Edited by: Avon on 21/07/2006 11:02:38 You don't need to remove the sentry guns, just make webs, scramblers, & scanners not trigger the guns (but still criminally flag you, and still draw a concord response in hi-sec). Then you can stop and lock you customer, and agree payment. If they refuse you can blow them up, but the sentry guns will open up on you once you start shooting. Because stopping and scanning has flagged you, your victim may fire upon you without consequence. If all that were true, I'd be back to piracy in a flash. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.21 11:04:00 - [68] Originally by: Avon Edited by: Avon on 21/07/2006 11:02:38 You don't need to remove the sentry guns, just make webs, scramblers, & scanners not trigger the guns (but still criminally flag you, and still draw a concord response in hi-sec). Then you can stop and lock you customer, and agree payment. If they refuse you can blow them up, but the sentry guns will open up on you once you start shooting. Because stopping and scanning has flagged you, your victim may fire upon you without consequence. If all that were true, I'd be back to piracy in a flash. I like this idea, but i often feel im on the losing side when it comes to opinions on piracy... --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Emerald666 LoneStar Industries Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.07.21 19:43:00 - [69] Sentry Guns have an Optimal of 150km and falloff of like 300km+.... But, maximum engagement range is 150km. If you are outside of this range you will most likely NOT be fired at... Merely warned. Amarr 4TW! :)

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