From my experience in null/lowsec, it seems to me that the only way to survive is to come out guns blazing in a battleship. The issue with this is that there's really no economic opportunity's for anyone who's flying a non-PVP ship (miner, hauler, etc.). There's just too much ganking/gate camping, and why is that? There's more money in classic pirate ransom than blowing up anything that flies in space, and I'd take ISK over ship explosions and killboard numbers any day. With the "if it moves, it's dead" tactics it limits the growth of that area. It makes it too dangerous for anyone without a PVP fit. At least if I pay 50% of my ship value to a pirate, I get to keep my non-pvp ship and not recieve money from my horrible "platinum" policy which actually covers 1% of my ship value. That brings me into another matter. Insurance is broken. CCP's "anti-fraud" insurance backfired. Why does my super-durable procurer have a "100%" value of 2 million ISK, but my frigate insurance worth the real 100%? I think when CCP designed nullsec/lowsec, they didn't expect that ganking would become so popular, and insurance needs a big overhaul. Once nullsec/lowsec becomes more ISK centered and insurance becomes useful, people will begin going there more often.

CODE are not pirates. Call them terrorists if you will, but not pirates.

I will invade your lowsec mission, I will ransom your pod instead of destroying your implants. I fly pre-heated multi-scram fits to grab stabbed PI Industrials off rival POCO's. I bribe CONCORD for security status. No ratter is safe from me and my friends.

That's what pirates do in my book, not this CODE hisec RP ganker nonsense. Please don't compare our noble profession with the bads hisec regurgitates out of boredom!

CODE are not pirates. Call them terrorists if you will, but not pirates.

I will invade your lowsec mission, I will ransom your pod instead of destroying your implants. I fly pre-heated multi-scram fits to grab stabbed PI Industrials off rival POCO's. I bribe CONCORD for security status. No ratter is safe from me and my friends.

That's what pirates do in my book, not this CODE hisec RP ganker nonsense. Please don't compare our noble profession with the bads hisec regurgitates out of boredom!

From my experience in null/lowsec, it seems to me that the only way to survive is to come out guns blazing in a battleship.

We are non-profit and pirates are non-prophet. Big difference.

That wasn't even called for.

Go sit in the corner and think about what you just did.

From my experience in null/lowsec, it seems to me that the only way to survive is to come out guns blazing in a battleship. The issue with this is that there's really no economic opportunity's for anyone who's flying a non-PVP ship (miner, hauler, etc.). There's just too much ganking/gate camping, and why is that? There's more money in classic pirate ransom than blowing up anything that flies in space, and I'd take ISK over ship explosions and killboard numbers any day. With the "if it moves, it's dead" tactics it limits the growth of that area. It makes it too dangerous for anyone without a PVP fit. At least if I pay 50% of my ship value to a pirate, I get to keep my non-pvp ship and not recieve money from my horrible "platinum" policy which actually covers 1% of my ship value. That brings me into another matter. Insurance is broken. CCP's "anti-fraud" insurance backfired. Why does my super-durable procurer have a "100%" value of 2 million ISK, but my frigate insurance worth the real 100%? I think when CCP designed nullsec/lowsec, they didn't expect that ganking would become so popular, and insurance needs a big overhaul. Once nullsec/lowsec becomes more ISK centered and insurance becomes useful, people will begin going there more often.

There should be a ransom system... like the opposite of a Limited Engagement Timer. "So and so has offered a ceasfire for xxxxx time for xxxx isk." and then you can't fire :)

I'd bring my friends and exploit the hell out of that.

If he pays once, he just might pay the other 6 times, too.

if you mean pirates who kill for isk then they operate in 0.5-0.6 bottlenecks between trade-hubs (Niarja, Uedama etc..)

if you mean pirates who honor ransoms...., well they don't exist anymore.

They are still out there.

Last ransom I ever did....
.... and eventually he got interested in pirating.

CODE are not pirates. Call them terrorists if you will, but not pirates.

I will invade your lowsec mission, I will ransom your pod instead of destroying your implants. I fly pre-heated multi-scram fits to grab stabbed PI Industrials off rival POCO's. I bribe CONCORD for security status. No ratter is safe from me and my friends.

That's what pirates do in my book, not this CODE hisec RP ganker nonsense. Please don't compare our noble profession with the bads hisec regurgitates out of boredom!

They are still out there.

Last ransom I ever did was last year in a backend system. Newish player mining in a venture. Think I just popped him the first time. Some words were exchanged and he left the system (Didnt know what a venture was yet). Week later he is back...

Tackled again and gotem into structure opened a convo and pulled his sheet and figured a million isk would suffice. He argued a little and eventually paid.

So i left him alone for another plan. He agreed to be my bait and I wont shoot him. Sure enough a lot of other "pirates" showed up to pop him and because they truly sucked at pvp I increased my kb stuff.

I gave him a cut of what was looted and it was a very interesting time. He also didnt afk mine which is one thing I despise and eventually he got interested in pirating.

1 mil is 200% value for a Venture lol. Should've just activated self-destruct.

To me the greatest motivation to ransom is player agency in applying a principle, and recieving not only ISK but also recognition. Seafaring pirates of the past used to have reputations that precede them. Regardless, it is a mere bonus on top of being able to apply authentic piratical principles.

What caused this archetype to be replaced by unprofessional scum? I'd say the problem lies with killboards, and their tendency to glorify minimal, unimpressive action. The problem lies in people wanting to point out that specific metric publicly, so they can gloat over their own implied statistics.

Those that go for ransoms care very little for their KB efficiency. They tend to promote extreme situational awareness and full control over your singular ship at all times, and enjoy taking down ships bigger then them through fitting choices and staying one step ahead. A killboard efficiency of 99% is effectively something to scoff at, that's not a score suitable for a pilot that is constantly honing his PVP prowess.

From my experience in null/lowsec, it seems to me that the only way to survive is to come out guns blazing in a battleship. The issue with this is that there's really no economic opportunity's for anyone who's flying a non-PVP ship (miner, hauler, etc.). There's just too much ganking/gate camping, and why is that? There's more money in classic pirate ransom than blowing up anything that flies in space

I'd take ISK over ship explosions and killboard numbers any day. With the "if it moves, it's dead" tactics.

I've offered ransoms with the intention of honoring them. Never had a taker.

Most people do not believe that you will honor it.

Ransoming needs some mechanic. Think about it.

Those that go for ransoms care very little for their KB efficiency. They tend to promote extreme situational awareness and full control over your singular ship at all times, and enjoy taking down ships bigger then them through fitting choices and staying one step ahead. A killboard efficiency of 99% is effectively something to scoff at, that's not a score suitable for a pilot that is constantly honing his PVP prowess.

Agreed the KB efficiency stat is a bad thing.

It's not a useful metric of anything other than your usual fleet size, but it is posted as the most visible metric on killboards.

I have a lot more respect for someone with 83% efficiency that mostly flies solo than I do for someone with 99% efficiency that flies in large fleets.

In lowsec that's the best way to get yourself hotdropped.

From my experience in null/lowsec, it seems to me that the only way to survive is to come out guns blazing in a battleship. The issue with this is that there's really no economic opportunity's for anyone who's flying a non-PVP ship (miner, hauler, etc.). There's just too much ganking/gate camping, and why is that? There's more money in classic pirate ransom than blowing up anything that flies in space, and I'd take ISK over ship explosions and killboard numbers any day. With the "if it moves, it's dead" tactics it limits the growth of that area. It makes it too dangerous for anyone without a PVP fit. At least if I pay 50% of my ship value to a pirate, I get to keep my non-pvp ship and not recieve money from my horrible "platinum" policy which actually covers 1% of my ship value. That brings me into another matter. Insurance is broken. CCP's "anti-fraud" insurance backfired. Why does my super-durable procurer have a "100%" value of 2 million ISK, but my frigate insurance worth the real 100%? I think when CCP designed nullsec/lowsec, they didn't expect that ganking would become so popular, and insurance needs a big overhaul. Once nullsec/lowsec becomes more ISK centered and insurance becomes useful, people will begin going there more often.

Do you guys even have permits? I'm having a hard time understanding the logic of your statements without permits.

And here comes some ganker who does not even live in low sec.

I frequent it but don't live there. Its too much of a commute to my job bringing justice to miners and saving highsec.

Don't forget you're too busy being brilliant in the alliance tournament and spending countless hours making up lies about what happened to actually be good at Eve.

This pretty much explains it all. The community is a bit on the edge with CODE anyways. The AT thing only made it worse.

I've been in Slovenia on business since Saturday so all I know is heresay besides the Clockwork Pineapple gank which is hilariously true. That all said, I'm not too busy being brilliant about anything except on interpreting the Code.

Today? It's like "GO BACK TO HIGHSEC FA**** FU***** PIECE OF **** I WILL FIND YOU RL AND ******** KILL YOU" and other creative responses like that.

Basically, "I wasn't even there, man!"

OK. Excuses from CODE. What else is new?

If you suck, just say you suck. It's ok, man.

I don't follow your logic (or the lack thereof). I haven't even logged into client since Saturday :) if that is why I suck then there's little I can do about it.

The logic is, whatever your personal situation might be is irrelevant. Your alliance has earned you the right to shut your mouth for a good long time. Your participation in the chat boards is as a representative of your alliance, which is currently obligated to hang its head in silent shame, rather than spout the same jokes about permits that haven't been funny in the longest time.

I'm still surprised why anyone uses implants.

The logic is, whatever your personal situation might be is irrelevant. Your alliance has earned you the right to shut your mouth for a good long time. Your participation in the chat boards is as a representative of your alliance, which is currently obligated to hang its head in silent shame, rather than spout the same jokes about permits that haven't been funny in the longest time.

EvE online is best played angry.

There are very few 'pirates' left in EVE. Most people living in low/null are PVPers. They want the killmail, not the isk. any loot you drop is just a bonus.

why? because there are simple other, better ways to make money. running plexes or having a highsec alt run missions/incursions.

pirating for ransoms is a terrible way to make money. it rarely pays off large.

I can't believe anyone seriously wants to bring up "pirates of yore." The "Golden Age of Piracy..." You really don't want to go that way. The only "legend" from then is found in fiction today. THEN, they were criminals just like "terrorists" today. Governments sent fleets to destroy them. They were hung on sight, and nobody - NOBODY - but them wanted to be them. Get your facts straight in making comparisons here...or not. Yeah, you can talk out your @$$. Somebody said everybody wants to be the lead singer...I was in several bands over the many years as the lead singer, and I guarantee you, the rest of the musicians weren't bum rushing the mic to see who got there first. Again, the fiction...people who have nothing to do with music think the lead singer is everything. People who haven't got a clue about the past think Jack Sparrow is the who to be.

You can't be a pirate in this game simply because that kind of behavior is sanctioned, it's not punished.
You aren't an outlaw. You're an in-law. You suffer no retribution, no ostracization, and you certainly
don't pay a price of any sort for it. In fact, this so-called piracy is so laughable it's hard to imagine anyone
wishing to see themselves as competitive and competent gamers admitting publicly to doing it.
To discuss it like you're putting a fine point to it? How delusional can you GET?

Dunnat make me laff. Pyrates...in EVE. Funny. Drink your cocoa and watch some cartoons.
School starts up in a week...kids.

I've been in Slovenia on business since Saturday so all I know is heresay besides the Clockwork Pineapple gank which is hilariously true. I was not eligible for AT this year so i didnt really follow much regardless. That all said, I'm not too busy being brilliant about anything except on interpreting the Code (though I appreciate the compliment all the same.)

"the Clockword Pineapple gank is hilariously true"

We believe you. *wink*

*pats Rabe on the head and gives him a cookie for a nice try

Since I presume you have access to the killboards you can pat in vain if you prefer. and I dont mind the cookie; call it a bonus on a 21 bil freighter gank.

From my experience in null/lowsec, it seems to me that the only way to survive is to come out guns blazing in a battleship. The issue with this is that there's really no economic opportunity's for anyone who's flying a non-PVP ship (miner, hauler, etc.). There's just too much ganking/gate camping, and why is that? There's more money in classic pirate ransom than blowing up anything that flies in space, and I'd take ISK over ship explosions and killboard numbers any day. With the "if it moves, it's dead" tactics it limits the growth of that area. It makes it too dangerous for anyone without a PVP fit. At least if I pay 50% of my ship value to a pirate, I get to keep my non-pvp ship and not recieve money from my horrible "platinum" policy which actually covers 1% of my ship value. That brings me into another matter. Insurance is broken. CCP's "anti-fraud" insurance backfired. Why does my super-durable procurer have a "100%" value of 2 million ISK, but my frigate insurance worth the real 100%? I think when CCP designed nullsec/lowsec, they didn't expect that ganking would become so popular, and insurance needs a big overhaul. Once nullsec/lowsec becomes more ISK centered and insurance becomes useful, people will begin going there more often.

http://evedarklord.blogspot.ca/2014/03/carebear-to-killer.html
Check it out, Grim Hood. A small frigate can do horribad/wondrous things when applied properly. Ransoms, tears, loot, or whatever your metric for success can be achieved.

Yarr

Part of the issue might be where it occurs. In hisec non consensual pvp is at max 30 seconds, so its rather hard to ransom with that. In low and null, they are armed and can shoot back. There really arent that many that cant where it matters. Haulers run gate to station so you have gun aggro which makes it hard to deal with.

Attempt to define "pirate" all you want. It's pointless. "Pirate" is a term that defies definition.

I want the fight, and don't much care how it starts. I want their cargo and their modules. If they offer a ransom, I'll accept it (ransoms *ARE* honored), but I won't ask for one. There have been occasions where I've told someone to eject his pod and leave me his ship, but those are rare. Most times, I'd rather have the killmail.
That makes me a "PvP'er" in some minds, but I still call myself a pirate. My CEO doesn't like that term applied to the corp, and that's fine... but many of us do identify as pirates.

I do find it a little bit alarming how many people insist that attacking and destroying another player's ship is "cyberbullying" or makes me a "sociopath", as though my conduct in a video game has anything to do with my real-life personality... especially considering that EVE is a PvP game. The whole point of this game is to shoot other people. That's why the PvE content is so mind-numbingly boring and nearly every aspect of the game fosters cooperation.
So can we quit with the "PvP'ers are terrible human beings" dialogue? Because it's getting a little tired and old.

Empty pods = clone reactivation costs = economic warfare. Don't be such a trolling Codebear.

Identification as pirate is a far more compelling validation of "our" playstyle then the amount of ISK or assets gained through piracy. To me the concept is simple: generate loot out of agression, one way or another, and at any scale you are capable of. Since said loot is re-invested into (or simply consists of) assets that make up the profession itself it is quite easy to sustain and simply does not require 1B blingboats. You'd be better off being able to handle all small T1 ships and know their bonusses by heart, then you would be grinding newbies to pay for an expensive asset you'll be risking each and every time you undock.

There is no reason at all for income comparisons, because that's not a metric that will change your playstyle much. ISK is merely a tool to do what you enjoy, which is getting into the fight, and take the other guy's stuff if you indentify with pirates. Those actions in and of themselves are enjoyable and require no further validation. Perhaps what it takes to be recognized as a pirate is to forfeit the kill in favour of income or services. That income streams or services rendered are not condensed into KB-like statistics is a good thing. Keeps business nice and obscured.

Say what you will about the bounty system. I did not recieve mine randomly. Values above imaginary treshholds can still be impressive and somewhat speak for themselves, just don't be fooled by the Most Wanted being generated purely by bounty amount. There are plenty of times people ask me what happened to recieve it, and I'm more then willing to tell them a pirate story.

I can neither confirm nor deny that Loyd is in fact a pirate because he may or may not have ganked one of my alts one time when I was...using questionable judgement.

empty pods is bullying

As a CODE sympathizer, I will occasionally help enforce the New Halaima Code of Conduct.

However, SMERG has our own law we enforce that extends to lowsec.... the Plagioclaise Protection Act of YC113., that lists lowsec Plagioclaise as an endangered "species". Anyone caught mining it is subject to immediate destruction. There is no permit.

CODE is doing good work.

As for podding... I chose not to, based on my devout belief in militant Chribbaism. My sect of the faith allows me to destroy ships, but not pods. The Veldspar must flow.

CODE are not pirates. Call them terrorists if you will, but not pirates.

Like the "pirate" I quoted said, we are not pirates. We are also not terrorists. we are the legitimate police force of the elected sovereign of Highsec our Supreme Protector and father of the New Order James 315.

Do to the mechanics in Highsec and our sec status, it is simply not practical to ransom a criminal miner. You could probably do it if you rep your sec status, but that would add a boring grind mechanic to the process and I try to avoid stuff like that.

On another note, I personally think that so called "lowsec pirates" are just afraid to lose their ship to CONCORD and that's why they opt for the easy-mode lowsec PvP. It's true that we do roams and gate camps as well, but just to chill out. In the end of the day we are looking for the real challenge which is the playground with the harshest rules for the aggressor, Highsec. This is just my personal opinion.

Like the "pirate" I quoted said, we are not pirates. We are also not terrorists. we are the legitimate police force of the elected sovereign of Highsec our Supreme Protector and father of the New Order James 315.

Do to the mechanics in Highsec and our sec status, it is simply not practical to ransom a criminal miner. You could probably do it if you rep your sec status, but that would add a boring grind mechanic to the process and I try to avoid stuff like that.

On another note, I personally think that so called "lowsec pirates" are just afraid to lose their ship to CONCORD and that's why they opt for the easy-mode lowsec PvP. It's true that we do roams and gate camps as well, but just to chill out. In the end of the day we are looking for the real challenge which is the playground with the harshest rules for the aggressor, Highsec. This is just my personal opinion.

good god carebear roleplayers are annoying...

I'm still a pirate. And "logistics" do healing. Jeez dude, you might wanna take the semantics rant to Rancer.

We're just taking the pirate theme from books and movies, not that from actual history. It's altism that makes pirates evade their sanctions easily, not core mechanics. Eve Piracy is not competative, it's resource harvesting at best. I'll admit it takes about the same level of competence as running a mining laser, it's just infinity times more fun. I must be extremely delusional to try and have fun in an MMO, right? Relax mate, it's just a friggin' video game. With pirates.

From my experience in null/lowsec, it seems to me that the only way to survive is to come out guns blazing in a battleship. The issue with this is that there's really no economic opportunity's for anyone who's flying a non-PVP ship (miner, hauler, etc.). There's just too much ganking/gate camping, and why is that? There's more money in classic pirate ransom than blowing up anything that flies in space, and I'd take ISK over ship explosions and killboard numbers any day. With the "if it moves, it's dead" tactics it limits the growth of that area. It makes it too dangerous for anyone without a PVP fit. At least if I pay 50% of my ship value to a pirate, I get to keep my non-pvp ship and not recieve money from my horrible "platinum" policy which actually covers 1% of my ship value. That brings me into another matter. Insurance is broken. CCP's "anti-fraud" insurance backfired. Why does my super-durable procurer have a "100%" value of 2 million ISK, but my frigate insurance worth the real 100%? I think when CCP designed nullsec/lowsec, they didn't expect that ganking would become so popular, and insurance needs a big overhaul. Once nullsec/lowsec becomes more ISK centered and insurance becomes useful, people will begin going there more often.

CODE are pirates. The filthy roleplaying is unfortunate, as is all the meta, but that's how the game stands right now. m0o got similar abuse for their activities when they were active. Fair enough they didn't nerd-RP, but they were equally obnoxious and awesome. Marmite still merc, with a different reputation to Noir/0rphanage/Privateers, but the playstyle is still there. It's just different faces and adjusted mechanics.

There's been a major attitude shift in the last few years from "Yarrrrr" and singing ransoms to "this is cyberbullying, harassment and griefing". So... there are no pirates left. Just griefers, gankers and 'sociopaths'. Which is a real shame.

If the themeparkers want to come in and have hysterics when someone blows up their pixels, it's not all that surprising pirates have just stopped bothering trying to loot or ransom. It doesn't have to be a primary income source when ISK farming is so easy via alts. The outrage is it's own reward. It's also shifted to 'all about the killmails' (which isn't a bad thing if people are thick enough to put squillions into squishable ships).

CODE are pirates.

LOLZ no. CODE are the highest form of highsec carebears. Ganking industrials in highsec is not pirating. Its cowardice, spineless and child-like... which makes most of CODE members fit in perfectly.

The thing with ransom is....you need time to negotiate ransom.

There are different situations where a honest scumbag can make some ISK out of ransom.
In High Sec I guess it is only possible if you catch someone you have wardecced....or someone who is stupid enough to pick up a suspect flag unintentionally.
While you probably have all the time in the world ransoming a single wartarget in high sec - ransoming a Suspect can be compromised by the next trigger happy pilot that flies by.

In Low Sec you can catch people in all kind of situations...gates, missions, plexes or belts, yet a negotiation for ransom is always under a lot of time pressure. As long as you are not in a group and try to ransom someone solo there are either gate guns which end you pretty fast if your target isn-¦t a pirate or aggressed you first (yeah I know right? that never ever happens) or rats that - if you are flying caldari low sec, tend to switch aggro and then jam the crap out of you (and you loose point). It is there fore less probable to even get offered a ransom when tackled by a single pirate in low.

SO while I could think of ways of making ransom a really profitable source of solo income in 0.0 and high sec, you basicly need to be in a group (aka >2 pilots to for example switch point at gates to reset the gate guns while ransoming) in low sec to make use of every "theatre".


tl.,dr.:
Solo Pirates can ransom victims in High Sec or 0,0 - Low sec plays a minor role due to environmental boundaries.
A group of people can ransom everywhere but also attract more attention.


Edit:
Regarding people that make huge income by ganking freighters with destroyers - its efficient and looks a lot like piracy to me. Different kind of pirates but I would call them that.
The mining permits CODE (is it still the mining thing?) gives out....I would not call that piracy...its more like a criminal organisation with mafia style.

Actually they fit the historical description of pirates quite well, the ones who preyed mainly on merchant shipping and generally avoided anything that could outgun them.

You know, like Edward Teach, Bartholomew Roberts and Henry Jennings.

From my experience in null/lowsec, it seems to me that the only way to survive is to come out guns blazing in a battleship. The issue with this is that there's really no economic opportunity's for anyone who's flying a non-PVP ship (miner, hauler, etc.). There's just too much ganking/gate camping, and why is that? There's more money in classic pirate ransom than blowing up anything that flies in space, and I'd take ISK over ship explosions and killboard numbers any day. With the "if it moves, it's dead" tactics it limits the growth of that area. It makes it too dangerous for anyone without a PVP fit. At least if I pay 50% of my ship value to a pirate, I get to keep my non-pvp ship and not recieve money from my horrible "platinum" policy which actually covers 1% of my ship value. That brings me into another matter. Insurance is broken. CCP's "anti-fraud" insurance backfired. Why does my super-durable procurer have a "100%" value of 2 million ISK, but my frigate insurance worth the real 100%? I think when CCP designed nullsec/lowsec, they didn't expect that ganking would become so popular, and insurance needs a big overhaul. Once nullsec/lowsec becomes more ISK centered and insurance becomes useful, people will begin going there more often.

LOLZ no. CODE are the highest form of highsec carebears. Ganking industrials in highsec is not pirating. Its cowardice, spineless and child-like... which makes most of CODE members fit in perfectly.

Looks like you just can't have a thread about the kind of emergent player-driven content that makes EVE so great without the New Order becoming the very topic of discussion.

No surprise really, what tops saving highsec?

In fact, all carebears and most PvPers are pathologically risk-averse, whereas Agents of the New Order readily sacrifice their ships in the name of the Saviour.

What, then, do you call a PvP'er or pirate who willingly engages a superior opponent?

I'm thinking you don't know what "risk averse" really means. Discretion is often used even by the most foolhardy PvP players. There's a difference between choosing not to throw yourself at an obvious ROFLstomp and avoiding any and all situations where winning isn't guaranteed.
Just because I'm not about to solo-tackle one member of a 12-man Heretic fleet in my Harpy, doesn't mean I'm risk-averse. However, I will try my luck with just one Dictor, by itself. Makes the killmail so much sweeter when you were just barely outmatched.

I'm thinking you don't know what "risk averse" really means.

Uh huh. Right. You can't dock anywhere but pirate havens in the middle of nowhere. The faction navies shoot you on sight....funny. And, yeah, I have no problem whatever crossing Rancer. There's nothing there to stop for anyway. Boogy boogy BOO! etc. Oh yeah, and fun for the one you robbed. Right. Like I said. It's kid stuff. Don't forget to wash behind your ears.

What, then, do you call a PvP'er or pirate who willingly engages a superior opponent?

I'm thinking you don't know what "risk averse" really means. Discretion is often used even by the most foolhardy PvP players. There's a difference between choosing not to throw yourself at an obvious ROFLstomp and avoiding any and all situations where winning isn't guaranteed.
Just because I'm not about to solo-tackle one member of a 12-man Heretic fleet in my Harpy, doesn't mean I'm risk-averse. However, I will try my luck with just one Dictor, by itself. Makes the killmail so much sweeter when you were just barely outmatched.

1) You can't be a pirate in this game simply because that kind of behavior is sanctioned, it's not punished.

2) You aren't an outlaw. You're an in-law. You suffer no retribution, no ostracization, and you certainly
don't pay a price of any sort for it.

3) In fact, this so-called piracy is so laughable it's hard to imagine anyone
wishing to see themselves as competitive and competent gamers admitting publicly to doing it.

4) To discuss it like you're putting a fine point to it? How delusional can you GET?

So you're some kind of self-proclaimed hero, we get it. How much of highsec do your killmails save? Its a selfish activity.

We gathered a huge fleet (19) of heroic Catalyst pilots in an attempt to kill a Code-violating Orca pilot.
CONCORD white-knighted before we could finish the job. 0.9 is terribad.

19 Catalysts is a huge fleet ??????

I hope you guys are not serious.

to the pirate that gets to plex himself and pay for his expensive toys every month with just ransoms , i tip my hat for you

In fact, all carebears and most PvPers are pathologically risk-averse, whereas Agents of the New Order readily sacrifice their ships in the name of the Saviour.

Risk involves doubt, knowing you will be concorded involves no variables. Therefore it is not a risk, but a cost willingly paid.

From my experience in null/lowsec, it seems to me that the only way to survive is to come out guns blazing in a battleship. The issue with this is that there's really no economic opportunity's for anyone who's flying a non-PVP ship (miner, hauler, etc.). There's just too much ganking/gate camping, and why is that? There's more money in classic pirate ransom than blowing up anything that flies in space, and I'd take ISK over ship explosions and killboard numbers any day. With the "if it moves, it's dead" tactics it limits the growth of that area. It makes it too dangerous for anyone without a PVP fit. At least if I pay 50% of my ship value to a pirate, I get to keep my non-pvp ship and not recieve money from my horrible "platinum" policy which actually covers 1% of my ship value. That brings me into another matter. Insurance is broken. CCP's "anti-fraud" insurance backfired. Why does my super-durable procurer have a "100%" value of 2 million ISK, but my frigate insurance worth the real 100%? I think when CCP designed nullsec/lowsec, they didn't expect that ganking would become so popular, and insurance needs a big overhaul. Once nullsec/lowsec becomes more ISK centered and insurance becomes useful, people will begin going there more often.

A cost is just a 100% risk, a risk readily accepted by CODE agents where most balk at far lower values.

No, any risk incorporates a variable.

Yes. In this case the variable is set to 100%.

A variable that doesn't vary hmm? The word you are looking for is constant.

If your reaction to a risk reaching 100% is to turn around and say that there is no risk, I hope you don't work anywhere important.

a 100% risk is not a risk, its a certainty. risk involves the chances of something happening.

To be honest, last time I ransomed someone, the reply I got was "go **** yourself you lowlife scumbag"...

I used to ransom people when I could, but so very few people actually accepted, it wasn't worth it. And that last reply made me stop ransoming . Funny thing is, I actually honour the ransom...

I think the other side of the story is the fact that (as stated above) most people are more bothered about the killmail nowadays that they take the ISK and kill you anyway. There are some who are honest though.

Also, in Wormhole space I know TDSIN and (I think) NOHO offer a "sing your way to freedom" that they do uphold.

The chances of something can go up to 100%.

If your reaction to a risk reaching 100% is to turn around and say that there is no risk, I hope you don't work anywhere important.

The chances of something can go up to 100%.

then its not a chance, its a certainty.

There is no chance, probability, or variability at the values of 100% or 0%. A variable of 100% or 0% is no longer a probability, but a certainty.

A probability stops being a probability if it reaches 1?

Interesting.

[quote=Crumplecorn]code pilots do not risk their catalysts in a gank

probability and chance are not the same thing....

So there's no risk to the catalyst in a gank? I think the catalyst would beg to differ.

you should maybe read my entire statement, instead of quoting half of a sentence.

So something can have a chance of happening but no probability of happening, and vice versa?

but your word games do not change the fact that probability and chance are different things and 100 and 0 percent odds are certainties, not chances.

you are choosing to be obtuse

A probability stops being a probability if it reaches 1?

Interesting.

"prob-+a-+bil-+i-+ty noun \-îpr+ñ-b+Ö--êbi-l+Ö-t-ô\
: the chance that something will happen

: something that has a chance of happening

: a measure of how often a particular event will happen if something (such as tossing a coin) is done repeatedly"
citation

This is just rhetoric now. What's the actual point?

And I'm actually done with this little argument now too, while I am right (as it happens I'm typing probabilities into a model in another window, and they do not transmogrify into something else if I type in 1 or 0) and it has been amusing, I feel bad if I maintain this level of shiptoasting for too long.

Something either has a chance of happening or not - By a process of elimination, something that is certain has a chance of happening.

There's been a major attitude shift in the last few years from "Yarrrrr" and singing ransoms to "this is cyberbullying, harassment and griefing". So... there are no pirates left. Just griefers, gankers and 'sociopaths'. Which is a real shame.

I think it's probably best if you turn your head sideways when next you walk through a door...

The point is that I essentially called CODE the bravest PvPers in the game and got 10 posts debating the sematics of loss-averse vs risk-averse, and 0 contradticting the substance of the post. Therefore CODE always wins.

And I'm actually done with this little argument now too, while I am right (as it happens I'm typing probabilities into a model in another window, and they do not transmogrify into something else if I type in 1 or 0) and it has been amusing, I feel bad if I maintain this level of shiptoasting for too long.

I miss the old days.

When a n00b miner in lowsec wasnt able to pay the ransom (based on his ship I told him 1 mil) .. I made him mine Kernite for me - into a can.

When the can was full - I let him go.

Now? People laugh at you and tell you to shoot them and go f**k yourself.

If you're offended when raged at, you are so NOT a pirate. I mean... seriously?

They're still out there.

"brave"

Just a big LOL at wanabe gank-stars who think highly of themselfs because they get themselfs regularly podded without implants.

The "wannabe-gankstar" raised what you noobs can't even properly do to an artform.

Bragging about getting podded in an empty pod and selling it as "brave" is truly an artform.

Hey check it out, its high sec gankers vs people with no kill history round 304262349972937582374.

You would think at some point you guys would get bored but you just don't.

... can't address my points ...
... hell, you don't even know wtf I am talking about! lol

Well obviously I wasn't really addressing your point. I just stated my opinion about that hilarious "I am tha gank-star, I bravely get my empty pod killed and I claim it brave! lulz noobs, it' an art"-thing of yours.

... you couldn't bounce around on grid for even a minute ...
... without crying at CCP for them to remove the faction police ... you gankbear. (:

Guys with shiny ships and SHINY clones happily pay aswell.. they even pay by ejecting from their shiny mission boat just to get their pod out *purrs*
It just doesnt happen often anymore.... *raises her walking cane* young whippersnapping pirates who make our life harder and harder :P